Since trying out this wonderful class, I have noticed a few things that have been changed, some for the worse... and some things that have been added, which need to be tweaked.
1. Spell lists - If you are going to have spell lists by classification by type... then you need to put them in order of level underneath... makes for easier selection overall. If you want to make it easier, just have it by level like it used to be... makes for easier reading all together.
2. Summoned Mount - Common... Coal Black Charger? Then read the description of the horse... worst stables? Paladins get Warhorses, we get overused stable dogs... what kind of biased junk is this?? I think if you would take a consensus of the evil God's... they would be providing their knights/champions with something a little better... don't ya think? Could ya revisit this decision.
3. Spells - We need to have some kind of healing... lifetap is nice but the recharge time is a long one. I notice Paladins get Heal at higher level... why not make the innate something closer to a HUGE harmtouch that brings back mass HP's and give some lower level lifetap spells in replacement for heals? something to think about.
4. Backstab - I think a nice concept I like from roleplaying Anti-Paladins is the fact that they get backstab, it is at a lower ratio of course then that of Rogues... but makes sense. Who else would you see backstabing someone walking away from them...
me thats who.
Just some things...
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Sangdraxus Blackfire
Ancient Defender of Mask - Sojourn
Leader of the Veil of Darkness
Anti-Paladin's
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Sangdraxus Blackfire
- Sojourner
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sangdraxus Blackfire:
<B>
4. Backstab - I think a nice concept I like from roleplaying Anti-Paladins is the fact that they get backstab, it is at a lower ratio of course then that of Rogues... but makes sense. Who else would you see backstabing someone walking away from them...
me thats who.
Just some things...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well mayby not backstab but backslash or backstrike or something? That works similar to backstab but has a much lower damage multiplier and only works with a 2h slasher.
It can only be used to start a fight, not if the mob is allready engaged.
- With a evil grin Sangdraxus delivers a wicked slash across a peapods back!
- a peapod screams in agony!
(high chance of hitting poison or a much higher chance of getting a proc off if you are wielding such a weapon)
(strike makes you lag 2 rounds or more)
What do you think?
- Reth
<B>
4. Backstab - I think a nice concept I like from roleplaying Anti-Paladins is the fact that they get backstab, it is at a lower ratio of course then that of Rogues... but makes sense. Who else would you see backstabing someone walking away from them...
me thats who.
Just some things...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well mayby not backstab but backslash or backstrike or something? That works similar to backstab but has a much lower damage multiplier and only works with a 2h slasher.
It can only be used to start a fight, not if the mob is allready engaged.
- With a evil grin Sangdraxus delivers a wicked slash across a peapods back!
- a peapod screams in agony!
(high chance of hitting poison or a much higher chance of getting a proc off if you are wielding such a weapon)
(strike makes you lag 2 rounds or more)
What do you think?
- Reth
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Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
2. Summoned Mount - Common... Coal Black Charger? Then read the description of the horse... worst stables? Paladins get Warhorses, we get overused stable dogs... </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You get the same horse as a paladin. The code is EXACTLY the same. As for the horse name and description, bug Cyric if you want something spiffier (but lose the idea of getting a nightmare).
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
3. Spells - We need to have some kind of healing... lifetap is nice but the recharge time is a long one. I notice Paladins get Heal at higher level... why not make the innate something closer to a HUGE harmtouch that brings back mass HP's and give some lower level lifetap spells in replacement for heals? something to think about.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To be honest, my feeling is that if you want healing type spells, play a paladin. We made a conscious effort to make APs something other than just an "evil mirror image" of a paladin. While they do have many elements in common, the easiest (and IMO best) place for differentiation is in the spell list. For the record, lifetap has the basic function you are talking about, since it taps for half of the APs hit points.
--D2
2. Summoned Mount - Common... Coal Black Charger? Then read the description of the horse... worst stables? Paladins get Warhorses, we get overused stable dogs... </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You get the same horse as a paladin. The code is EXACTLY the same. As for the horse name and description, bug Cyric if you want something spiffier (but lose the idea of getting a nightmare).
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
3. Spells - We need to have some kind of healing... lifetap is nice but the recharge time is a long one. I notice Paladins get Heal at higher level... why not make the innate something closer to a HUGE harmtouch that brings back mass HP's and give some lower level lifetap spells in replacement for heals? something to think about.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To be honest, my feeling is that if you want healing type spells, play a paladin. We made a conscious effort to make APs something other than just an "evil mirror image" of a paladin. While they do have many elements in common, the easiest (and IMO best) place for differentiation is in the spell list. For the record, lifetap has the basic function you are talking about, since it taps for half of the APs hit points.
--D2
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Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
l charger
Malevolent and utterly black, this beast was raised in some of the
foulest stables of Toril and looks back at you with very evil eyes.
He is a full stallion, yet hardly acts like one, standing quietly
and ignoring other equines. He stands over 18 hands at the shoulder,
and fairly ripples with unbridled power.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Other than that description, they're exactly the same as paladin's horses. What's wrong with the description (again, lose the idea that you'll be getting nightmares)?
l charger
Malevolent and utterly black, this beast was raised in some of the
foulest stables of Toril and looks back at you with very evil eyes.
He is a full stallion, yet hardly acts like one, standing quietly
and ignoring other equines. He stands over 18 hands at the shoulder,
and fairly ripples with unbridled power.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Other than that description, they're exactly the same as paladin's horses. What's wrong with the description (again, lose the idea that you'll be getting nightmares)?
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Sangdraxus Blackfire
- Sojourner
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
First of all, in reply... I never thought about the want, or need for a "nightmare"... so that idea never crossed my mind. Let's look at it another way...
play a AP, and summon a mount... you see the word BLACK CHARGER enter the room... black charger... hmmm... boy that sounds imposing. I never stated anything about the stats, I never once questioned any programmed differences between the two, and I never ASKED for a nightmare, and to be honest... would not. Now play a paladin and summon a mount... A WARHORSE enters the room... Warhorse... now that is an imposing figure... shows elegance, power. THERE is my difference... if you want to get into the basics of it, I take the game from a roleplay sense... let's take it a step further.. maybe it would help you understand it a bit more.
Anti-Paladins are simply Evil Knights, period with some power given to them by the Gods they serve, which are also in most cases evil.
Paladins are the opposite.. Knights serving good God's... and given power accordingly.
So why would Tyr let (so and so paladin)get a warhorse, but Gargauth would not allow his Knight/Champion the same benefit... when it all comes down to it... aren't the Gods the ones competing for their followers? and in turn winning over the other Dieties?
Do you see where I am coming from now... throw stats and all that other crap to the side.. I am talking story, and roleplay... which is why I am here... period.
On the note of spells... point taken. I wasn't asking to be like a paladin, I was asking for a balance issue... isn't that why we are working in Alpha? from a balance standpoint... are you going to want a Paladin in your group, who has minor heals.. but still has heals, and LOH's available at his disposal... which helps both him as a tank, and the group if need be... or an AP in the group who can harm the hell out of an oponent, and heal himself partially... I was simply throwing that out there for observation because I have been playing an AP on this mud for 7 years... I think I know the class a little bit, and what it is like to be thrown to the side because they have a tank that works better...
And finally, on the backstab notion. I am simply bringing that up as something from first edition rules, and a dragon magazine that stated rules for playing AP's.... in D&D AP's were not available as PC's until third edition, but in the old editions there were rules for them, and one included backstab. So I was throwing it out there as something fun...
Thanks for the time,
------------------
Sangdraxus Blackfire
Ancient Defender of Mask - Sojourn
Leader of the Veil of Darkness
play a AP, and summon a mount... you see the word BLACK CHARGER enter the room... black charger... hmmm... boy that sounds imposing. I never stated anything about the stats, I never once questioned any programmed differences between the two, and I never ASKED for a nightmare, and to be honest... would not. Now play a paladin and summon a mount... A WARHORSE enters the room... Warhorse... now that is an imposing figure... shows elegance, power. THERE is my difference... if you want to get into the basics of it, I take the game from a roleplay sense... let's take it a step further.. maybe it would help you understand it a bit more.
Anti-Paladins are simply Evil Knights, period with some power given to them by the Gods they serve, which are also in most cases evil.
Paladins are the opposite.. Knights serving good God's... and given power accordingly.
So why would Tyr let (so and so paladin)get a warhorse, but Gargauth would not allow his Knight/Champion the same benefit... when it all comes down to it... aren't the Gods the ones competing for their followers? and in turn winning over the other Dieties?
Do you see where I am coming from now... throw stats and all that other crap to the side.. I am talking story, and roleplay... which is why I am here... period.
On the note of spells... point taken. I wasn't asking to be like a paladin, I was asking for a balance issue... isn't that why we are working in Alpha? from a balance standpoint... are you going to want a Paladin in your group, who has minor heals.. but still has heals, and LOH's available at his disposal... which helps both him as a tank, and the group if need be... or an AP in the group who can harm the hell out of an oponent, and heal himself partially... I was simply throwing that out there for observation because I have been playing an AP on this mud for 7 years... I think I know the class a little bit, and what it is like to be thrown to the side because they have a tank that works better...
And finally, on the backstab notion. I am simply bringing that up as something from first edition rules, and a dragon magazine that stated rules for playing AP's.... in D&D AP's were not available as PC's until third edition, but in the old editions there were rules for them, and one included backstab. So I was throwing it out there as something fun...
Thanks for the time,
------------------
Sangdraxus Blackfire
Ancient Defender of Mask - Sojourn
Leader of the Veil of Darkness
I agree that APs should get warhorses as well, but it looks like the Sojourn staff agrees with us.
Fact is, a charger IS a warhorse.
charg·er1 (chärjr)
n.
1.One that charges, such as an instrument that charges or replenishes storage batteries.
2.A horse trained for battle; a cavalry horse.
So I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for :)
Also by "foulest" I don't think "worst" was meant, I think "foulest" is supposed to refer to the "most evil" in this case.
[This message has been edited by Rynlaeis (edited 04-25-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Rynlaeis (edited 04-25-2001).]
Fact is, a charger IS a warhorse.
charg·er1 (chärjr)
n.
1.One that charges, such as an instrument that charges or replenishes storage batteries.
2.A horse trained for battle; a cavalry horse.
So I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for :)
Also by "foulest" I don't think "worst" was meant, I think "foulest" is supposed to refer to the "most evil" in this case.
[This message has been edited by Rynlaeis (edited 04-25-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Rynlaeis (edited 04-25-2001).]
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Guest
Sang,
Reason why D2 and I said no nightmares is that, in our experience, whenever talk of antipaladin mounts (or mounts in general) comes up, someone inevitably mentions nightmares. Wasn't directed at you, specifically, I apologize.
Like Rynlaeis said, a charger is indeed a feared type of battle horse.
Reason why D2 and I said no nightmares is that, in our experience, whenever talk of antipaladin mounts (or mounts in general) comes up, someone inevitably mentions nightmares. Wasn't directed at you, specifically, I apologize.
Like Rynlaeis said, a charger is indeed a feared type of battle horse.
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Sangdraxus Blackfire
- Sojourner
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
There is a point that palles are more usful in a group because layhands and heals. Also pallies get nice bonuses because most zones are stoked with evil mobs. Antis though have the advantage of being able to kill anything regardless of alignment. It has also been my feeling that anti's should get a dam bonus for using a 2hander instead of a hit bonus like pallies. Maybe that would be overpowered at highlevels though. Another option that may be fitting is some sort of a minor vamp touch that works while the anti holds a 2 hander. Maybe a anti only spell to that nature.
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Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
<B>First of all, in reply... I never thought about the want, or need for a "nightmare"...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fair enough. See Kia's post why we brought that up.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
On the note of spells... point taken. I wasn't asking to be like a paladin, I was asking for a balance issue...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know what you were asking for.
From a balance standpoint, while it would surely be nice to give APs some healing spells, it would be nice to give those spells to any class. Would it be unbalancing? Maybe, maybe not. But - is it what we are striving for with the class? No.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
are you going to want a Paladin in your group, who has minor heals.. but still has heals, and LOH's available at his disposal... which helps both him as a tank, and the group if need be... or an AP in the group who can harm the hell out of an oponent, and heal himself partially...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Depends who else is with me, I guess. Maybe I want both.
--D2
<B>First of all, in reply... I never thought about the want, or need for a "nightmare"...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fair enough. See Kia's post why we brought that up.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
On the note of spells... point taken. I wasn't asking to be like a paladin, I was asking for a balance issue...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know what you were asking for.
From a balance standpoint, while it would surely be nice to give APs some healing spells, it would be nice to give those spells to any class. Would it be unbalancing? Maybe, maybe not. But - is it what we are striving for with the class? No.<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
are you going to want a Paladin in your group, who has minor heals.. but still has heals, and LOH's available at his disposal... which helps both him as a tank, and the group if need be... or an AP in the group who can harm the hell out of an oponent, and heal himself partially...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Depends who else is with me, I guess. Maybe I want both.
--D2
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