Shamans HP

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Neram
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Shamans HP

Postby Neram » Wed Apr 04, 2001 9:55 am

Seems like shamans max HP they get at start not depends on Con.
With Mighty im getting like 23/21
with Perfect 25/21
seems like Con-HP modifier counts current HP not max HP. Of course current Hp drops after while to 21.
I think mages getting 21 max hp also.
Arent shamans as priest type supposed get bit more, more close to clerics?
Taer/Ssil
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Postby Taer/Ssil » Wed Apr 04, 2001 10:28 am

Im not sure how psps are determined either. I always thought it was wisdom, not power, but talking with other squids, it seems like starting psp is random. One had lower power and wisdom than me, and started with higher natural psp. Anyone know?

-Sxil
azzixxenae
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Postby azzixxenae » Wed Apr 04, 2001 10:58 am

well i farted around with it on opening. sux ass not being able to delete a char until lvl 7 (change this)??

I founf that wisdom does have an impact on psp amount...so beleive you are still correct.

Azz
Galok Icewolf
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Wed Apr 04, 2001 2:32 pm

Yea, I noticed this, my Hps really do suck as a barbarian shaman, I got less starting hps then a human bard. And I have perfect con, I get less then a human bard per level. It seems slightly off, considering were more of a cleric class. Is it possible to have our hps raised to priest hps? or just under rogue hps? Image

I just rolled up a "human" cleric and got 28 starting hps.. 7 more then my shaman..., and a human invoker that started with 18, 3 less then my shaman... *shrug*

[This message has been edited by Galok Icewolf (edited 04-04-2001).]
Uthgar
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Postby Uthgar » Wed Apr 04, 2001 3:42 pm

Shamans are really a mage-cleric hybird, and as such get mage hp, mage exp tables, and, yes, mage-type damage spells (not to mention stoneskin and the like). If you want more hp play a cleric.

Uthgar
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Postby Faerwynd » Wed Apr 04, 2001 6:31 pm

In the old days, Shamans had cleric hps I believe. Thats really not the point though... no matter what your CON is with some races, you always have the same hps. I think the CON notches are screwy for some of the caster classes. Dwarven clerics for example always have:
Heroic (32)29
Mighty (32)29
Good (32)29
Fair (32)29
...for their Hps. (The number in parenthesies are the hps they have, but their max hps is the second number. After a few moments of course those extra hps bleed off like a vit.)

Barbarian Shamans always have:
Perfect (25)21
Heroic (24)21
Mighty (24)21
Good (24)21
...for their Hps.

Elves seem to be working fine, but some of the other races arent.I think this is the point Neram was originally trying to make with this thread.

Imms, I'll send y'all all my data at the end of Alpha of course, but just thought I'd comment Image

Jaeb
Uthgar
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Postby Uthgar » Wed Apr 04, 2001 6:41 pm

Hint: Read the player's handbook for AD&D. Our bonus hp for constitution work in a VERY similar way. And, of course, some races have an unseen con bonus beyond the 1-100 stat.

Uthgar
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Postby Zhadrak/Dharag » Wed Apr 04, 2001 7:08 pm

altough it seems odd a drow necromancer starts of with more hps than a barb shammer..

drow necro 27 hps, barb shammer 21
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Postby cherzra » Wed Apr 04, 2001 7:30 pm

Would someone who has the player's handbook be willing to quote what it says on con bonuses and hp?
Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Wed Apr 04, 2001 8:05 pm

From memory . . .

Constitution Hitpoint bonus
18 2(4)
17 2(3)
16 2
15 1
14 down 0

And some of the really low numbers give a penalty to hit points per level (though you'll always get at least one per level). The bonuses in parenthesis are only for warrior classes, meaning that only fighters, paladins, and rangers benefit from them.
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Postby Tayros » Fri Apr 06, 2001 1:27 pm

Barbarian Shamen need more hitpoints and more hp per level. How can someone who weighs in at 270 lbs and 6'6" have less hitpoints than a frail little necro spell geek? Barbarians are a hardier breed, enough to justify a con bonus and more hitpoints right there. Plus, if you're going to downgrade our pets, you're killing off the shaman for the cleric, even with the new spells.

I agree that the shaman is more a cleric / mage hybred, but the power of the shaman spells vrs the mage are not comparable, and the HP shouldn't be based off this class.

Tay
namatoki
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Postby namatoki » Fri Apr 06, 2001 3:23 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with Tayros but include ogre shamen as well. Image

Nizrath/Urgga
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Postby Guest » Sat Apr 07, 2001 2:38 am

I felt it was my turn to weigh in on this topic. Give my 2 silver pieces worth. I quote from the help files:

"Shaman are the "holy" men and women of the barbaric or savage cultures, and they server and guides and protectors of these clans or tribes. They can call upon their Gods (clerical spellcast) as well as the Weave (magical spellcast), but the main source of their power comes from Nature
herself. Shaman can summon spirits and creatures from the Outerplanes to do their bidding.

A shaman will posses a higher range of hit points than does a mage, but not as many as a rogue."

Yes we are a hybrid. BUT we are a tough race, strengthen by harsh climate. If a druid starts with 27 hps and and a necro 26, why do we start with 21?

This does not make sense.
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Postby Faerwynd » Tue Apr 10, 2001 11:45 am

Because some of the races have bugs in them for some reason.

I mentioned Dwarven Clerics and Barbarian Shamans above, how about Troll Shaman?

Perfect (26)22
Heroic ???
Mighty (26)22
Good (25)22
Fair (25)22
Average ???
Mundane (24)22
Bad ???

The same hps no matter what your CON is? C'mon, doesn't that look fishy to you? How about Ogre Shaman?

Perfect (25)21
Heroic ???
Mighty ???
Good ???
Fair (24)21
Average ???
Mundane (24)21
Bad ???

Noticing a trend yet? Hmmm... thats all the Shamans there are, but I think it warrants a look into the code. Not just Shamans too, give all the casters a once over. Grey Elves and Gnomes seem to be working right.

Jaeb

[This message has been edited by Faerwynd (edited 04-10-2001).]
Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Apr 11, 2001 9:07 pm

Just a thought. Why doesn't each race start with with same hps then progress with hps/level depending on their selected class.

An ogre is an ogre right? Big, large? Let's say ogres start with 40 hps. As a warrior they would level up 14-18 hps/level (con dependent) while shamans would 5-8 hps/level (also con dependent) Does this make sense or am I lost out in the tundra somewhere?


------------------
Rho
Tayros
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Postby Tayros » Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:28 am

Heya Mathemagician!

Can we get some feedback here, positive or otherwise? You busy Barbarian!!!

TK Image

Go Avalanche! Dead Wings Suck
Tayros
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Postby Tayros » Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:29 am

Heya Mathemagician!

Can we get some feedback here, positive or otherwise? You busy Barbarian!!!

TK Image

Go Avalanche! Dead Wings Suck
Tayros
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Postby Tayros » Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:30 am

Heya Mathemagician!

Can we get some feedback here, positive or otherwise? You busy Barbarian!!!

TK Image

Go Avalanche! Dead Wings Suck
Tayros
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Postby Tayros » Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:31 am

Damn browser!
Uthgar
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Postby Uthgar » Tue Apr 17, 2001 3:30 am

Every shaman does not have the same hp no matter what their con. Roll an ogre with under 50 con, a troll under 53, or a barb under 57. They will have fewer hp. The hitpoint chart (just as in AD&D) grants +2 hp for a certain con that those races reach easily (and other races have some difficulty reaching). Past that notch, only warrior classes (a-p, pal, ran, war) benefit from con. Rejoice in the fact that you can have a pathetic con and put your good rolls in some other stat.

Uthgar
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Postby Faerwynd » Wed Apr 18, 2001 8:06 pm

Heh ok, well I didnt do a whole lot of research here, but I DID roll another Ogre Shaman last night just to see what happened with a bad con. I had 22 hps. So considering I had more hps than I did with all other possible CON scores, I'm guessing the problem has been adressed.

Thanks imms :P
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Postby cherzra » Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:17 am

OK now I'm confused. Bad con gets you 22 hps, while good con only got you 21?
Uthgar
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Postby Uthgar » Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:01 pm

Ogres got their hp raised as a race, so that is what is throwing off his test.

Uthgar
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Postby Faerwynd » Fri Apr 20, 2001 12:08 pm

OH ok heh yeah. I just rolled an Ogre Shaman w/ perfect con and he had 22 hps too. Hmm. At least this time it was 27h/22H (instead of 22h/22H for bad con).

Looks like they added one hp to the race in general, but still left the issue untouched.
Uthgar
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Postby Uthgar » Fri Apr 20, 2001 12:49 pm

Issue? There is no issue. Shaman hp are fine where they are. I challenge you to make a barbarian shaman with bad con, and one with good con and compare their hp. Shamans just have an easy time reaching their maximum con notch, unlike elves, for example.

Uthgar
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Postby Rausrh » Fri Apr 20, 2001 12:55 pm

May seem like a silly question but when you first create a character the hit points start out higher than bleed away like a vit. I've heard this refered to as your maximum hitpoints, but I'm still confused by it. Maximun in what way? Any one care to explain it?

Rausrh licks you.
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Postby Faerwynd » Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:47 pm

Ok you got me, barb with perfect con 21/21 bad con 20/20.
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Postby Tzat » Sun Apr 22, 2001 10:22 pm

Re: Uthgar's post about some races easily reaching max con notch...

So say I'm rolling a human cleric...and I'm thinking well, i really want HPs, so i'll put all 3 of my bonus rolls into my mighty con...
Is that dumb because mighty is probably maxxed me out anyway and maybe I should have put the rolls into something else?
Is that what you are saying?
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Sun Apr 22, 2001 11:57 pm

yes tzat...
Just in like AD&D there is a max con each class can reach effectivness in.

More then like 65 con for a human cleric/wizard is superflous...
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Postby Tzat » Mon Apr 23, 2001 2:53 pm

When did this system come in? It doesn't seem to be the same as what I remember from the original Sojourn...?
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Postby Kiloppile » Tue Apr 24, 2001 4:22 pm

Ok, here's the deal... shamans aren't clerics. If a shaman got cleric hit points, clerics would be significantly less popular. A few points:

1. Shamans has *stone skin*, thus making it much easier for them to tank.

2. They have far more nuking power than a cleric (actually, even before the addition of spells).

3. Shamans have significantly less healing for a single character at high levels, *however*, they do much more healing in area/breath situations in large groups. Plus group heal is a much faster spell than full heal.

4. Man, you guys need to play around with ancestral shield sometime. That spell rocks.
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Postby Faerwynd » Tue Apr 24, 2001 6:47 pm

yeah but apparently ogre shamans aren't even drow necros when it comes to bulk. I'll give you they're not clerics, but an ogre more wimpy than a drow? stop the madness!

drow necro perfect con = 27 hps
ogre shaman perfect con = 21 hps
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Postby Faerwynd » Fri Apr 27, 2001 4:46 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Uthgar:
Issue? There is no issue. Shaman hp are fine where they are.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, have you read this thread in a while Uthgar? Was it the intent that Drow mages be more hardy in the hitpoints than Ogre Shamans? Thats just one example but seriously, do you think this is right? If so I'll drop it, but Shamans became very weak all of a sudden.

Sure they got some much needed cool spells to make them a bit more powerful as a caster, but part of their old charm was that they weren't a frail little bunny rabbit.

They were mighty (thought not extremely bright compared to other races) members of their barbaric communities.
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Postby Uthgar » Fri Apr 27, 2001 4:58 pm

Became weak all of a sudden?

Boggle.

Shaman hp are the same as they always have been. You are sorely confused. I played over 100 days as a shaman on Toril.

Uthgar
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Postby Guest » Fri Apr 27, 2001 9:39 pm

Faer,

not 5 seconds ago I rolled both a drow mage and an ogre shaman, both with perfect con.

Drow mage: 17 hpts
Ogre shaman: 22 hpts

If there is a problem, it's with the starting hpts of drow necros, not ogre shamans.

[This message has been edited by Kiaransalee (edited 04-27-2001).]
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Postby Kiloppile » Sun Apr 29, 2001 4:18 am

Actually, Kia, you must not have rolled a drow necro. Necro starting hp's are 27. This probably goes back to that old hp problem for necros... perhaps no one ever checked to see if that strange effect (bug with illithids going in) affects hp at 1st level?

Anyway guys, necro hp's have been bugged before, and it's not shocking that they might still have something weird. It has *nothing* to do with shamans, however. Any other drow mage type doesn't get anywhere near 27.

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