Illusionist Feedback

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Shevarash
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Illusionist Feedback

Postby Shevarash » Wed May 02, 2001 8:07 am

Illusionist are now in the game for preliminary testing. While nto all of you can play one yet, you can still check out the helpfiles for their list of spells. Please post any non-bug related feedback here.

Thanks!

-- Shevy
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Wed May 02, 2001 8:56 am

I've been playing around with my illusionist all morning now and here's my comments on the spells Image

1st Circle
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Shadow bolt is our version of magic missile and it seems like the same spell with just a nicer ansi Image
Its good to have the invis and di early, and it fits the theme.

2nd Circle
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Blackthorns look to be a pretty good offensive spell at lower levels. It's nice to see dispel invis early here for the illusionists.

3rd Circle
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Change self crashes atm but I can imagine its uses. Phantom Armor could be useful when tanking, but other classes get armor spell much earlier. This circle is in the same problem as enchanters 3rd, no real offensive spell to use when doing exp at low levels.

4th Circle
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Spook is a decent offensive spell which looks pretty cool. It seems stun lasts a very long time. As a guard at BGR that I had stunned could not engage me for several minutes. I was level 50 and the mob around 20 though.

Scarlet Outline seems fine, but it does not aggro the mobs I cast at.
Phantom Steed seems to start with much more hp than its max hp. 106/25 for example.

This circle has also plenty of useful utility spells which balances it nicely and fit the theme.

5th circle
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True Sight is a superb spell for human illusionists!
Shadow Magic is neat.. Its always fun to try to see what effect it will be shown as Image
Doppleganger looks as if it could become REALLY useful in zones. It also hits much better than what I do.
Shadow burst seems to be your average lowlevel area spell.
It's kind of nice to have dimension door early too.

Later circles coming after I've been at lunch.

/Jegzed,
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Postby Bopple » Wed May 02, 2001 10:12 am

Don't they seem a bit too powerful?
I love it cuz i've been waiting for years and gonna play. But...?
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Postby Jegzed » Wed May 02, 2001 11:52 am

Continuation of my previous comments.

6th circle
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Nondetection sounds useful for an evil aligned illusionist. I haven't tested it cause I simply don't know what is aggro good Image

Displacement seems to work fine, its a rather different approach to preventing hits.

Tranquility is fun.. even if mobs reaggro pretty fast Image


7th circle
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Phantasmal blades seem to be a pretty decent offensive area spell, but casting time is rather slow.


9th circle
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Shadow Walk seems to be a relocate spell with just another name.
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Postby Tilandal » Wed May 02, 2001 3:44 pm

Ok im gonna add 1 little critisism.
It seems almost all illusionist spells are of type illusion. This includes apells that would normaly be considered invocation and enchantment. For example truesight is listed under illusion but its a di dm dg de & sl spell. All of these are divination spells but the mess of them together is illusion for some reason. Also shadow walk, Its an illusion spell but its the same as relocate. Call it whatever you wish but it should still be teleportaion not illusion.
To many of the spells seem to be thinly dsiguised versions of otherspells with the spell type changed. If you are going to do this why not give enchanters enchant pebble at level 1 instead of magic missile. The enchanter quickly enchants 1-5 pebbles on the ground so they fly at the target. It just seems you gave new names to old spells and put them under the illusion group. This just means illusionists only have to practice spellcast illusion since they get so few of the other spells.
Galok Icewolf
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Wed May 02, 2001 4:57 pm

Get a grip...

More then half the spells are originial, and those few that aren't were given different ansi so they look different. They are school illusionist because thats what type of magic they have. You don't see invokers with a bunch of enchantment spells. Or enchanters with a bunch invocation spells? They get a large majority of spells of what they cast....

P.s. Shadow Bolt looks about 100x better then enchanting pebbles and throwing them at someone.

[This message has been edited by Galok Icewolf (edited 05-02-2001).]
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Postby Malacar » Wed May 02, 2001 5:02 pm

Hey Galok... I'll have you know Enchanters offense, all of it, even though some is unique(constrict, blacklight, prismatic spray, etc), is invocation.

If a spell fits under another category, it should be there instead.

I haven't tested Illusionists, but imho, truesight sounds like a divination spell to me. He gave criticism, give the guy some credit for stepping forward and saying it.. It's a feedback board, don't rip someone a new butthole for giving feedback. Image

And besides... When I suggested that some enchanter offense get moved to enchantment, I was quickly told it was unbalancing. I was also told today that illusionists seemed to be doing too much damage. This might be the cause of it.

Specialize spells add a ton to damage scores.


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Postby silvea » Wed May 02, 2001 5:24 pm

just 2 points:

1) Gnomes can be invokers, now illusionists are in the game I find this more then strange.

2) I see a lot of changed spells as mentioned before. And I see a lot of "always" dammage spells. Like :
- shadow bolt
- blackthorns

They are just like invo spells, and even when they hit they always do dammage. The cool thing of an illusion is that or you believe in them or you don't so you get dammage or you dont'

Also the ansi looks like meteors and missiles and I heared like the same dammage for thoes levels. I would suggest to chage it more like:
instead of 1 missile:
A tiny horror flies to <the monster> and rips him apart.
instead of 2 missiles:
A small horrer flies to <the monster> and rips im apart.

you get the idea....

This would not only make them more unique but also better in they'r class.

And I find it more then a bad idea to give illusionist on they'r first level dammage spells. In every book convincing someone is hard, do dammage with it is even harder.

greetings,

Silvea alias Almile
azzixxenae
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Postby azzixxenae » Wed May 02, 2001 5:48 pm

Good job Shevy!!

I've played with the spells while tweaking my zone on test mud. I like what you've done.

Az
silvea
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Postby silvea » Wed May 02, 2001 6:00 pm

got another idea for a illusion spell:

Phantasmal Wall

In effect it will let an exit disapear, so preventing mobs from fleeing/walking in that direction if they fail a save vs Spell. This would be helpfull in a zone by closing an exit and giving time to mem for mages while they don't need to be to afraid for something walking in on them or when you got a mob that keeps fleeing, you close all exits and he is "locked" in. The caster can still walk in the direction that the spell is cast becouse he knows its there, a dispel magic should dispel it, a svSp is needed to walk in that direction if you can't see the spell (convincing yourself) sertain types of mobs should be inmume for it like undead and sertain types like animals vurnable for it.

greetings,

Silvea alias Almile
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Postby Yayaril » Wed May 02, 2001 6:03 pm

Like Silvea said, will their spells have a chance of being not believed and thus utterly useless? I know illusionists in Dungeons and Dragons were rather powerful, but always had the problem of their spells being disbelieved and rendered ineffective against that particular foe. Then again, in Dungeons and Dragons you could make an illusion of a bridge over a gorge and watch as your foes dropped to their death, or make a poisonous scorpion look like a platinum coin, etc.

Yayaril
Tilandal
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Postby Tilandal » Wed May 02, 2001 6:59 pm

Galok my point is that almost all ilusionists spells are type illusion.
Many spells that should fall under divination, teleportation, and invocation are put under illusion instead.
Lets take your example of enchanters not having invocation spells. None of the enchanter offensive spells are actually enchantment.

Magic Missile
burning hands
chill touch
Lightning bolt
Fireball
Blacklight burst
cone of cold
chain lightning
constriction

All together more then 1/3 of the enchanters spell list (about 25 spells) is not enchantment.

Now how many illsionist damage spells are invocation? none. Illusionists also get divination and telportation spells that fall under illusion. I mean realy what is the point of giving magic missiles a different name and ansi? By your logic all enchanter invocation spells should be given new ansi and put under enchantment.
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Postby Gythi » Wed May 02, 2001 8:49 pm

I agreed about the re-asigning on spells, to many druid spells are 'Nature' while its ncie having them under one spec, so they are more worth while to cast, some just dont make sense being 'Nature'.

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Jurdex
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Postby Jurdex » Wed May 02, 2001 11:48 pm

The spell camoflauge is misspelled.

It should be camouflage.

Jurdex
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Thu May 03, 2001 5:16 am

Actually, the illusionist spells are mostly of the correct type - I goofed when writing the helpfiles.

The lower level illusionist spells - the ones that involve transporting matter from the Plane of Shadows to cause damage are invocation (as that pretty much describes the act of invocation/evocation). The phantasmal spells, however, are type illusion.

I'll fix the helpfiles before we open.

-- Shevy
Bopple
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Postby Bopple » Thu May 03, 2001 10:19 am

I know you wanted to mean 'illusionary wall' not phantasmal wall.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by silvea:
<B>got another idea for a illusion spell:

Phantasmal Wall

In effect it will let an exit disapear, so preventing mobs from fleeing/walking in that direction if they fail a save vs Spell. This would be helpfull in a zone by closing an exit and giving time to mem for mages while they don't need to be to afraid for something walking in on them or when you got a mob that keeps fleeing, you close all exits and he is "locked" in. The caster can still walk in the direction that the spell is cast becouse he knows its there, a dispel magic should dispel it, a svSp is needed to walk in that direction if you can't see the spell (convincing yourself) sertain types of mobs should be inmume for it like undead and sertain types like animals vurnable for it.

greetings,

Silvea alias Almile

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
silvea
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Postby silvea » Thu May 03, 2001 12:36 pm

Thanks, jup I mean "illusionary Wall".

Still non comments if it is a solid idea from someone, it should be not to hard to code I think......

greetings,

Silvea alias Almile
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Postby Corth » Thu May 03, 2001 3:59 pm

Well, they weren't what I expected. They certainly aren't at all similar to the sorc's of old.

(sorc = globe / stone / fly / haste / gate illusionist = none of the above).

That being said, I think that the class is pretty decent, and with some work, might end up being really fun.


They definately need some sort of gate spell. Mostly so that shadow walk can be used safely. But also because they have all those spanky non-detect type spells and so they should be able to get around to anywhere on the mud. It should be a very mobile class, using illusion to walk around where nobody else would dare.

At the very least it should have some sort of planeshift type spell...

They seem to be able to do pretty decent damage and have some good protection spells. Personally I would like to see less of an emphasis on damage.

Overall, I give the class a hesitant thumbs up. I think that more work needs to be put into it but that for the time being its a good start. It will take time to see just how useful their non-damage illusions are in a group, and I'm sure that in time they can be perfected.

Corth

[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 05-03-2001).]
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Postby Gorets » Sat May 05, 2001 2:05 am

I don’t think anyone heard my enormous cry of disappointment since it was so hard that most of it was ultrasound. I was waiting for illus to come in with such great hopes that at the moment my feelings of disbelieve and denial of what they actually appeared to be are so strong – it makes me type no more.

Gore
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Postby Werg » Sat May 05, 2001 3:49 pm

Huh?
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Postby Lyt » Sat May 05, 2001 5:01 pm

I didn't read what everyone else wrote, so this may have been mentioned already.

I cast mirror image and was invis. I started to walk around and the images didn't follow me. I went back to them, and vis'd off. They were now able to follow me.

Please make it so that mirror images dont need di in order to follow the caster.

Lyt

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