WANTED - Dead or Alive

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Tayros
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WANTED - Dead or Alive

Postby Tayros » Wed Apr 25, 2001 1:37 pm

As most of you know, I've been testing the heck out of justice, and a lot of you have helped by trying to claim the prize for my capture, it was up to 260 p once. One thing I discovered, and it's not a bug, just a flaw in people (look, criminology degree pays off) is that the threat of punishment has become a mute point, so the crime rate, the rate I commit crimes anyway, has gone up.

So now to the idea, and the topic title sums it up. After the reward has risen above a certian amount, say 150p total, maybe even 100p to keep it interesting, the players arena flag get toggled on and the judge shouts "Dead or Alive". Rhoquinn had the idea that the shout would be global, and also every bounty hunter in the game would now be after you if you entered the zone.

To get the full reward, obviously, bring them in alive. If they won't cooperate, the player that kills them and drags that corpse to a judge gets 1/2 the prize...

So what do you think?

Tyrble -WANTED- Dead or Alive
Sangdraxus Blackfire
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Postby Sangdraxus Blackfire » Wed Apr 25, 2001 1:51 pm

I like the idea...

I was thinking though... if there were those people that would do such a thing... Gargauth forbid such an idea! I think it might bring about hard feelings, I mean if I knew a good friend... this is in complete speculation that I have any friends of course... that had a bounty on his head, who's to say I am not going to turn him in myself?

I think it could cause some animosity... but would make for some nice roleplay. Hell, let's do it... Gargauth knows I need the money...

nice concept... keep them coming.



------------------
Sangdraxus Blackfire
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Gindipple
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Postby Gindipple » Wed Apr 25, 2001 2:01 pm

Perhaps the justice code is out lived it's purpose. If I remember correctly it was to prevent people from hanging out in towns killing all day long. With the advent of many new zones I think few people will reside in the towns. But should the few that do decide to exp in a town one day be harassed by others for this? I've seen some people post simple solutions to this that are kinda mean, but should work. If you get captured, add said name to list of no grouping. This really puts people against each other and it cuts at the very heart of the grouping concept that the mud is based on.

rm -rf justice.*
azzixxenae
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Postby azzixxenae » Wed Apr 25, 2001 2:44 pm

I likes...

BUT...the offender should have the chance to kill whomever is trying to capture him...might pose a problem

Az

[This message has been edited by azzixxenae (edited 04-25-2001).]
Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Wed Apr 25, 2001 2:58 pm

Laugh,

I never got anything BUT a death sentence from the Judge, so for some people that might be Wanted Dead or Alive for their first crime.

And secondly, if I'm wanted dead or alive and some Ranger, Paladin or bounty hunter wants to take my head, I damn well better get a shot to slit his foul throat and leave him dead where we stand.!!!!

For those who seek to hunt and kill "so called" criminals, be prepared to face death as well.

Nilan

-Assassin
Nokie
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Postby Nokie » Wed Apr 25, 2001 2:59 pm

Whatever the case, I hope people take the warning in 'help tieup' seriously:

<B>Note: Anyone caught abusing this command will be dealt with harshly.
Use of this command is ONLY allowed for bringing WANTED criminals to justice.</B>

In that vein, I hope the gods also take that warning seriosuly and not put up with people who abuse the tieup command. If you tie someone up, you should be making your way to the justice hall.
Don't log off, don't go linkdead, don't drag your victim into an aggro zone and flee.

Tieup is effectivley a free perma paralyze spell with the added bonus that the victim can be drug around.

Imagine this scenario: A group leader is leading a large group (group b) in jot or a plane, and happens to be wanted in Waterdeep for bashing a peasant farmer in waterdeep. Now lets suppose that group b is mad because group a is already there, but they want the eq. Now lets suppose that some lamer in group b (we'll call him Lilareow) want to be an asshole and ties-up the leader of group a.
What happens to group a? Since their leader is out of commission do they continue? Does group b now have 'rights' to the zone?

As far as I know, if a person is wanted in any city, anyone can tie that person up anywhere in Faern and anywhere in the outer planes. This could lead to complications.

And I don't even want to get started about the issue with people abusing tieup by tying up a LINK DEAD character and getting them executed and then waiting for their body to rot. If that scenario happens in beta, I certainly hope someone will seriously punish the coward who did this.

Nokie Quickfingers!

[This message has been edited by Nokie (edited 04-26-2001).]
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Wed Apr 25, 2001 4:46 pm

If a person is link dead, they would disappear into the void long before the execution is carried out.

Yayaril
Nokie
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Postby Nokie » Wed Apr 25, 2001 4:53 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B>If a person is link dead, they would disappear into the void long before the execution is carried out.

Yayaril</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was in the hidden chamber in south waterdeep on Friday evening. I was in there so long, the door was hidden again. I lost link.
When I came back online sometime on Saturday night, I was in my guildhall naked and a level lower. I had died. Inside the safety of waterdeep, inside an obscure hidden room.
Someone told to me that I had been executed.
Sure enough, my corpse was in the justice hall. I can only guess that a god or a player preserved it (much to the dismay of the coward who turned me in I'm sure).

So based on the experiences I had, I don't think it's accurate to say that a LD person would dissapear in the void long before it was carried out.

Nokie Quickfingers!
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Apr 25, 2001 6:12 pm

Never mind tying someone up and dragging them through to the Fire Plane.

- Ragorn
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Wed Apr 25, 2001 6:22 pm

As far as I know you can't drag a prisoner through portals, it has never been possible
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Postby Nitania » Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:58 am

It was possible, not sure if it still is or not. I know ppl who have both done it, and who have had it done to them... ultimately low if you ask me.

Nitania
Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Thu Apr 26, 2001 2:26 am

I had someone actually tie me up and persue me for 40 rl mins, during that time, this person gated the ethereal plane(numerous times) and attempted to drag me through.

dumping someone bound on any plane is basically pkill. that has been the only thing that thoroughly pissed me off and with good reason. there was no attempt being made to drag me to justice, just to dump me on an aggro plane, inorder to get revenge for whatever it was they decided they wanted to get back at me for.

players should not be able to drag bound players through gates, wells, aggro zones (ie, aggro evil alignment zones if the wanted person is evil).

People used to joke about tieing me up and dragging me across the path of the Paladin of Tyr or Torm etc....
This should not be done.

Justice is one thing, and I'll be first to admit that i play along with it with the best of them....but when its used to get revenge on someone, to just screw with someone, or try to use it to pkill someone, then those individuals should be dealt with hasrshly.

people should play honestly.

Nilan
azzixxenae
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Postby azzixxenae » Thu Apr 26, 2001 11:21 am

hrmm. I think you should be able to be dragged through a monnwell/portal. If i capture you in BG, why couldn't i get a friend to moonwell back to WD? makes life a lot easier, especially for your back (RP perspective of course).

The other examples, well, isn't that why we have admins?

cheers,
Az
Tayros
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Postby Tayros » Thu Apr 26, 2001 2:37 pm

Hey Nokie

< 261h/344H 141v/116V >
<> Ok.

< 261h/344H 141v/116V >
<> You wear a buckskin pack about your body.

< 261h/344H 141v/116V >
<>
Lilareow OOC: 'so i tricked him into walking into the judge... turnin (name)'

< 262h/344H 141v/116V >
<> TICK IN 5 SECONDS.

< 263h/344H 141v/116V >
<>
Searil OOC: 'hehehe'

< 265h/344H 141v/141V >
<>
Guntok OOC: 'that's cool'

< 266h/344H 141v/141V >
<> ooc yeah ... tricked Nokie... sure

It's really, really hot here. A slight breeze would really improve things.

< 266h/344H 141v/141V >
<> You OOC: 'yeah ... tricked Nokie... sure'
Notice! The OOC channel may NOT be used for mud-related material!

< 266h/344H 141v/141V >
<> l
The Alley of Shadows
Room size: Large (L:30 ft W:75 ft H:500 ft)
Exits: -N -S

< 268h/344H 141v/141V >
<>
rest
recl
Someone yells, 'Hey! Would you bring that over here, please?'

< 268h/344H 141v/141V >
<> You sit down and relax.

< 268h/344H 141v/141V >
<> You stop sitting around and lay down.

< 268h/344H 141v/141V >
<>
Lilareow OOC: 'naw I just found nokie LD and turned him in'

< 268h/344H 141v/141V >
<> ooc YOU!!!!
You OOC: 'YOU!!!! '
Notice! The OOC channel may NOT be used for mud-related material!

< 270h/344H 141v/141V >
<>
Lilareow OOC: 'but I caught him fair like twice before that'

< 272h/344H 141v/141V >
<>
Searil OOC: 'ack'

< 274h/344H 141v/141V >
<>
The sun begins to set in the western sky.

< 276h/344H 141v/141V >
<>
Relshar OOC: 'I do hope you are joking about turning him in while ld'

< 280h/344H 141v/141V >
<>
Lilareow OOC: 'pth no'

< 282h/344H 141v/141V >
<>
It's really, really hot here. A slight breeze would really improve things.

< 282h/344H 141v/141V >
<>


-----

Tyrble -WANTED- Dead or Alive
izarek
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Postby izarek » Thu Apr 26, 2001 3:06 pm

Ouch! That's all. Just, "Ouch!"

Izzy
Nokie
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Postby Nokie » Thu Apr 26, 2001 3:24 pm

I'm curious how Lilareow, a paladin IIRC, knew to find me in a hidden chamber in south WD.

Even more amazing is that he was able to somehow find me and drag me to the judge and wait the three hours to be executed, all the while I was link-dead.

Someting doesn't quite add up...

Perhaps Lilareow can clue us in?
Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Thu Apr 26, 2001 4:06 pm

Nokie: She's a ranger, not a paladin. That means she can track. No idea about what you're talking about regarding the execution. They do announce when they're going to execute someone though so anyone that wants to watch the neat proc can run down in time to watch.
Kathon
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Postby Kathon » Fri Apr 27, 2001 1:33 pm

I'm not surprised that it was Lilareow. I've seen similar incidents with the same person.
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Postby Malacar » Fri Apr 27, 2001 1:36 pm

That's really low and a very lame thing to do.

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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.
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Postby Rahl » Fri Apr 27, 2001 3:10 pm

Low.



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Rahl -- Defender of Zamiel
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Fri May 18, 2001 6:55 pm

I've stated this before. Death should not be a penalty in the justice system, especially not in a non-harsh environment like WD.

*Also* when you tie someone up, I believe it records that you tied them up. how bout a bit of code that will alert an admin (and log to an alert file) if a player dies while tied up by another player... the bounty hunter could then be transed to a holding room to do some explaining.

That way there would be a record like: Nilan died at room xxx on the Elemental Plane of Fire at (00:00) time. He was tied up by Bounty Hunter Twinkletwink. Miax could log on and say 'Hmm... what have we here?'
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Postby moritheil » Fri May 18, 2001 6:58 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nokie:
<B>
Even more amazing is that he was able to somehow find me and drag me to the judge and wait the three hours to be executed, all the while I was link-dead.

Someting doesn't quite add up...

Perhaps Lilareow can clue us in?</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

isn't 3 hrs 3 minutes RL?
Lyt
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Postby Lyt » Sat May 19, 2001 5:25 am

I really think that something needs to change to allow the person being tied up to fight back against the person who ties them up. First off let me say that the justice system as it is, is extremely lame. It is just another thing to let twinks and pests bother the rest of us. Once again, they do it in the name of "roleplaying," which to many people on the mud is just an excuse the act poorly and give an excuse for it.

Here is my example. I was on the mud the night the mud went down from alpha, before it came up for beta. There was only 1/2 of an hour before the big Tiamat fight was going to start. I was on as my alt and was wanted for something lame. I think I tried to kill a sleezy prostitute in south WD and it fled.

Well i was standing at the fountain waiting for the gods to make us all level 50 for the fight, when Grade A Twink #1 (aka Yayaril) came and tied me up. He dragged me down to a room 1n of the judge and sat there for 10 minutes. He finally untied me (why I don't know) and I went back to the fountain. Fifteen minutes later he came and tied me up again. Here we are about 15 minutes before the battle is going to begin, and he is dragging me to the judge because he is "role playing" and says he wants the 15 plat. Needless to say I was executed, and had to proceed to CR myself just so I could join the Tiamat battle.

Please change or remove the justice code and tying up people, as it is extremely abusable as it is. Make the ropes break if you are tied up for more than a minute. Give non-rogue classes different skills similar to untie that will allow them to break the ropes (warriors snap them, and mages can nuke them etc.) As I said before, what a lot of people chalk us as roleplaying is just an excuse they use to act poorly.

As far as Lilaroew goes, I was on as Lyt one day and was at 3w AFK for around 15 minutes. I come back to my screen to see that he had tried roughly 30 times to tie me up to drag me in. At least the difference in levels (I was 46, while he was 20) kept him from succeeding. Certain people need dragged into the market square and caned severly.

Lyt

PS. I think that tracking should be disabled for tracking people who are wanted. Notice that most of the twits who are turning people in are rogues and rangers, the only 2 classes with track.

[This message has been edited by Lyt (edited 05-19-2001).]
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Sat May 19, 2001 5:33 am

Lyt, I think you better reboot your brain because there's some corruption in your memory sector. For one, I tried to tie you up and failed. Know why? Because you were level 50 and I was level 22. You started spouting taunts, like, 'Screw off' and such, so I got Relnor to tie you up. He dragged you to the judge, then decided to let you go just for the spirit of the night. You did not sit there for 15 minutes like you so erroneously claim. Then Relnor tells me that you're sending him insulting tells, so he wants to turn you in for real. We hunt you down, Relnor ties you up and turns you in. You must have been drunk or something to remember the scenario so blurringly. No wonder you hate me so much, I'm like some sort of demon that deserves to be slandered on the bbs in your mind.


Yayaril
Lyt
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Postby Lyt » Sat May 19, 2001 7:29 am

Well Yayaril you are the one who is mistaken. I said I was on as an alt, who was only level 24, and WAITING to be level 50 for the fight. And yes it was Relnor who was with you, so if I was talking to Relnor about how I feel about justice, I don't know why you have to get involved and be even more obnoxious than you already are. It was just tacky, especially how you tied me up and just sat there for 5-10 minutes the first time. That was what was the most annoying part. If you want to be a wanker and do the whole justice game, then go ahead and turn me in as soon as you tie me up. You don't have to drag me two rooms away from the judge and just sit there. Grow up a little.
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Postby Yayaril » Sat May 19, 2001 10:26 am

So now it's 5-10 minutes instead of 15? Are you ready to just come forward and state that you're making up numbers? I don't see why you're still trying to demonize me. Whenever I capture someone, I take them directly to the judge unless they want to bargain for their freedom. I apologize that you dislike the justice system and therefore despise me as one of its adjucates, but I think I hardly deserve such slander and falsafied stories. I was the one who told Relnor to let you go because of the Tiamat fight. Maybe if you had held your tongue instead of sending childish insult tells, he wouldn't have wanted to catch you and turn you in for the full punishment. I don't know anyone who would enjoy being called the things you said.


Yayaril
Salenthelor
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Postby Salenthelor » Mon May 21, 2001 2:06 am

You know the last few replies are why I truly question the justice system being in at all. If the purpose is to make people go out of cities, hey tag all city people as shopkeeper mobs and guess what.... you can't kill them.
One of the big problems of the mud is the continuation of grudges. I know that they will always be there, but I'm not sure that having a system which inherently causes grudges is a good idea.

Just my view from the cheap seats.
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Postby Yayaril » Mon May 21, 2001 11:05 am

I agree, the justice system does lead to confrontation between different players, Salenthalor. However, grudges are kept by the players themselves. 95% of the people I've turned in have not held a grudge. In fact, a lot of them have later grouped with me and been my ally. A lot of the people I turn in ask me for advice about how to pay off their debts and avoid being jailed again. A lot of people giggle and make jokes. Only a few individuals make a big fuss and start cursing and saying all sorts of nasty things. (Usually those sailor mouthed paladins). I'm sure people will hold grudges if they really want to, no matter what you do- whether it is compete for equipment or experience, don't like your name, or your attitude.

Yayaril
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Postby silvea » Mon May 21, 2001 12:51 pm

justice = pkill (but not pk)
izarek
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Postby izarek » Mon May 21, 2001 4:51 pm

Think of it this way, yay. Justice is a great way to find out who the immature arse-holes of the mud are (i.e. those who throw a fit and hold grudges).

Izzy
Lyt
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Postby Lyt » Tue May 22, 2001 3:55 am

I don't think its all about grudges. I like to mud because it is an escape (albiet temporary) from the struggles of everyday life. I like to be left alone when I mud, and when I have my mudding experience interrupted by people who want to play the justice game, it just makes me mad. I think that both parties should have to have RP toggled on in order to haul people off for justice. I think that certain classes (AP, paladin, and ranger) should be required to have RP toggled on permanently when they play, and therefore they would be more affected by the justice code.

That would leave the rest of us who are hack and slash mudders out of the loop, and let us mess around as we please and not have to worry about getting arrested an an inoprotune time. There was another time on alpha that I had a group ready to go out and slay (I was leading.) We were assembled at the fountain when someone came and tied me up, and hauled me off to the jail. I had to sit in the cell and wait for 1.5 RL hours before my sentence was up. The whole time my group had to find something else to do. Talk about getting pissed off. I agree with what someone said earlier....either make all of the mobs in town !kill, or make them all ZERO experience, if justice is going to stay in the game. That way you don't have to worry about people killing in towns. As it is now, justice is a way to force people to roleplay, and the theme of this mud has always been voluntary participation in RP.

Another thing about RP. I think that this should be an option that you must select when you create the character. That way you can't turn it off when you want to. This way justice will only be for people who roleplay, as they can then add the "cops and robbers" aspect to their roleplaying adventures.

Lyt
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Postby izarek » Tue May 22, 2001 4:39 am

I agree wholeheartedly, Lyt, with the idea of somehow discriminating between those who wish to be involved in the RP aspects of justice. I know I certainly dont wanna ruin anyone's day.

I dunno if choosing RP at char creation is the answer, but I know that it wont work as a toggle on the fly. Hopefully other ideas will surface.

Izzy
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Tue May 22, 2001 7:23 am

I symphatize with having to sit there for 1.5 hours just when you were about to zone, but in all fairness you did something wrong didn't you? Sooner or later someone is going to bring you in for it... might have been better if you turned yourself in (not sure if this is possible) or asked a friend to.

While I see you get mad over that specific case, you have **ZERO** rights blaming the guy for bringing you in. You committed the crime, now sit the time. That guy probably had a lot of fun doing it ("wow! lyt is on! he is wanted!" *adrenaline looking for lyt and finding him*), might have been playing his character, or just using a feature of the game. Oh well that last line didn't sound the way I wanted it to, but he was totally within his rights. It's rather immature to come here yelling that he sucks, that justice sucks, that people like that are 12 years old, etc.

[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 05-22-2001).]
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Postby Lyt » Tue May 22, 2001 7:28 am

OK put it this way. If you are wanted in a town for committing a crime, I have no problem with the guards hunting you down and dragging you in. That way its impartial. Just don't let other players do it and profit from it. Make if so that if you are wanted in a town, you are flagged so that the instant you show up in that town, the guards hunt you down. That fixes a lot of problems that now exist with the justice system.

Lyt

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