Ridiculous Switches.

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Ubek
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Ridiculous Switches.

Postby Ubek » Tue May 22, 2001 6:14 pm

Well, I have been at it for some time now, and it's just ridiculous. Some matches I have to flee 6 times. If this was a rare occasion then that would be different. But it's very frequent. Ok Enough ranting, I hope this gets looked into. Is this a percentage chance of switch to?

Ubek - Corpse Lover.
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Postby cherzra » Tue May 22, 2001 6:28 pm

Mobs are smart, better bring a basher or go invis Image
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Postby Garosh » Tue May 22, 2001 6:45 pm

I saw something the other day that was very odd.
I had just attacked a mob (believe a battle mercenary in waterdeep) and I had a caster friend with me. Well it Switched to him before he had even assisted me or done anything aggressive.

Garosh
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Postby Treladian » Tue May 22, 2001 7:01 pm

Garosh: That's not too unusual. Mobs can tell who's grouped with you in the room. So after being engaged in a fight, they sometimes will then bash a caster before caster engages. Lots of times, casters don't even need to bother assisting the tank that way Image
azzixxenae
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Postby azzixxenae » Tue May 22, 2001 7:45 pm

heh, wait til the caster gets a silence or blindness slapped on him/her without ever engaging :P Want to weed the support casters out of the fight? no problems...

Area makers can be very, very, cruel.

Az

PS: the cherz speaketh the truth.
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Postby Kiloppile » Tue May 22, 2001 8:07 pm

Actually, it's the coders in this instance. Image

Last night I watched my wife's cleric get switched to, rescued instantly, switched to, rescued instantly, switched to and killed. Couldn't land a blind to save her life (literally).
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Postby Lurgo » Tue May 22, 2001 9:14 pm

I've noticed 2 bugs in mob switching:

1. The mob doesn't DI and I'm invis'd. It's fighting my pet with me in the room remaining invis'd, mob will sometimes switch to me.

2. I'll stun the mob with "Jar the spirit" spell and immediately after that the mob can still switch.
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Postby moritheil » Wed May 23, 2001 6:34 am

If it's the same round, it has no effect yet. Spells don't take effect till the next round. I imagine this is a bug.

I minor para'd someone today (grr, I wish I hadn't lost the log!) and they still hit me. It was the next round that they stopped.
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Postby rylan » Wed May 23, 2001 1:35 pm

Mobs almost always switch/bash/trip the cleric now.. I'm sure you've all noticed. Next one after the cleric to get targeted is a mage.. fun fun. I still think its excessive.. if a mobs has the switch skill, it never seems to fail using it.. if it wants to switch, it does. As a lvl 22 cleric, I get switched to ALL the time, usually beofore I even engage. Makes me wonder how the mob can tell who is a caster before we actually cast a spell...

Makes me really want to see palidans get a 'guard' skill.. usable for only 1 group member, but it automatically protects the member, preventing switches etc.
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Postby Faedril » Wed May 23, 2001 3:21 pm

Well... You could always take two warriors... not like there isn't enough of them... Second can bash, and tank can bash on miss... Keeps mobs down pretty good with low skills... Tank can also SP, Kick, rescue etc.
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Postby Ubek » Wed May 23, 2001 4:16 pm

OMG another day of this and I think I'll head butt my monitor..

This is just point less, I spend a ton of time fleeing each battle. I have no grasp of why it's necessary for them to switch this much. Yes, I understand mobs are suppose to switch, I understand their choices of switching. But the amount of switches per battle is all too often, ridiculous, and causes alot of frustration.
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Postby Ubek » Wed May 23, 2001 4:43 pm

You scan west...
Before the House Aleanrahel Slave Pen
Room size: Large (L:50 ft W:50 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -E -W
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier stands here, fighting the spectre of a drow scout.

< 119h/119H 120v/120V> w
Before the House Aleanrahel Slave Pen
Room size: Large (L:50 ft W:50 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -E -W
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier stands here, fighting the spectre of a drow scout.
Nadas enters from the east.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V>
A House Aleanrahel soldier dodges the spectre of a drow scout's attack.
A House Aleanrahel soldier hits the spectre of a drow scout hard.
The spectre of a drow scout barely drains a House Aleanrahel soldier.
The spectre of a drow scout barely drains a House Aleanrahel soldier.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V> ass spectre
You assist the spectre of a drow scout heroically.
You miss a House Aleanrahel soldier with your hit.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V T: undead TC: few scratches E: soldier EC: few wounds> c 'wither'

You miss a House Aleanrahel soldier with your hit.
The spectre of a drow scout barely drains a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier switches targets..

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: Ubek TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> You start chanting...
ab
flee

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: Ubek TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> You abort your spell before its done!

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: Ubek TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> Ust Circle - East
Room size: Large (L:40 ft W:40 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -N -S -W
Nadas enters from the west.
You flee eastward!

< 119h/119H 119v/120V> l w
Before the House Aleanrahel Slave Pen
Room size: Large (L:50 ft W:50 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -E -W
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier stands here, fighting the spectre of a drow scout.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V> w
Before the House Aleanrahel Slave Pen
Room size: Large (L:50 ft W:50 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -E -W
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier stands here, fighting the spectre of a drow scout.
Nadas enters from the east.

< 119h/119H 118v/120V> ass spectre
You assist the spectre of a drow scout heroically.
You miss a House Aleanrahel soldier with your hit.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds>
Nadas looks at a House Aleanrahel soldier.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds>
You miss a House Aleanrahel soldier with your hit.
A House Aleanrahel soldier switches targets..
The spectre of a drow scout barely drains a House Aleanrahel soldier.
The spectre of a drow scout barely drains a House Aleanrahel soldier.
The spectre of a drow scout barely drains a House Aleanrahel soldier.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V T: Ubek TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> c 'nerve dance'
ab
flee
You start chanting...

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: Ubek TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> You abort your spell before its done!

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: Ubek TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> Ust Circle - East
Room size: Large (L:40 ft W:40 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -N -S -W
Nadas enters from the west.
You flee eastward!

< 119h/119H 119v/120V> l w
Before the House Aleanrahel Slave Pen
Room size: Large (L:50 ft W:50 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -E -W
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier stands here, fighting the spectre of a drow scout.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V> w
Before the House Aleanrahel Slave Pen
Room size: Large (L:50 ft W:50 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -E -W
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier stands here, fighting the spectre of a drow scout.
Nadas enters from the east.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V>
A House Aleanrahel soldier dodges the spectre of a drow scout's attack.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V> ass spectre
You assist the spectre of a drow scout heroically.
You miss a House Aleanrahel soldier with your hit.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> c 'nerve dance'

You miss a House Aleanrahel soldier with your hit.
The spectre of a drow scout dodges a House Aleanrahel soldier's attack.
The spectre of a drow scout barely drains a House Aleanrahel soldier.

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> You start chanting...

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds>
Nadas points at a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier is surrounded by dancing outline of purplish flames!


< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds>
Casting: nerve dance *

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds>
Casting: nerve dance

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds>
You complete your spell...
Your spell reaches into a House Aleanrahel soldier's mind and burns his synapses.

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds>
You miss a House Aleanrahel soldier with your hit.
A House Aleanrahel soldier switches targets..
The spectre of a drow scout barely drains a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier dodges the spectre of a drow scout's attack.
A House Aleanrahel soldier dodges the spectre of a drow scout's attack.
A House Aleanrahel soldier dodges the spectre of a drow scout's attack.
The spectre of a drow scout misses a kick at a House Aleanrahel soldier's groin.

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: Ubek TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> c 'nerve dance'
You start chanting...
ab
flee

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: Ubek TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> You abort your spell before its done!

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: Ubek TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> Ust Circle - East
Room size: Large (L:40 ft W:40 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -N -S -W
Nadas enters from the west.
You flee eastward!

< 119h/119H 119v/120V>
Nadas starts casting a spell.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V> l w
Before the House Aleanrahel Slave Pen
Room size: Large (L:50 ft W:50 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -E -W
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier lounges about here, guarding the slave pen.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V> emote waddles about leeching experience.
Ubek waddles about leeching experience.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V> l w
Before the House Aleanrahel Slave Pen
Room size: Large (L:50 ft W:50 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -E -W
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier stands here, fighting the spectre of a drow scout.

< 119h/119H 120v/120V> w
Before the House Aleanrahel Slave Pen
Room size: Large (L:50 ft W:50 ft H:20 ft)
Exits: -E -W
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
*The spectre of a drow scout stands in mid-air here, fighting a House Aleanrahel soldier.
A House Aleanrahel soldier stands here, fighting the spectre of a drow scout.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V>
The spectre of a drow scout dodges a House Aleanrahel soldier's attack.
The spectre of a drow scout dodges a House Aleanrahel soldier's attack.
The spectre of a drow scout misses a kick at a House Aleanrahel soldier's groin.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V> ass spectre
You assist the spectre of a drow scout heroically.
You miss a House Aleanrahel soldier with your hit.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds> c 'nerve dance'

Nadas enters from the east.

< 119h/119H 119v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds>
You miss a House Aleanrahel soldier with your hit.
The spectre of a drow scout dodges a House Aleanrahel soldier's attack.
A House Aleanrahel soldier dodges the spectre of a drow scout's attack.
A House Aleanrahel soldier dodges the spectre of a drow scout's attack.

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds>
Erez enters from the east.

< 119h/119H 120v/120V T: undead TC: excellent E: soldier EC: few wounds>
Erez leaves west.


- This is an average fight... :P 3 flees right at the beginning :P
Ellyriel
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Postby Ellyriel » Wed May 23, 2001 5:20 pm

Would it be unrealistic to consider a new skill for warriors, something along the lines of 'maneuver opponent?' I've never considered myself an expert on battle, but it seems to me that skilled fighters would not just attempt to hold their own, but would look for any advantageous positions which they would use against their opponents. It seems to me that a fighter skilled at working within a group containing casters, or a fighter who knew his life would depend on keeping his healer alive, would attempt to maneuver himself and his foe into positions where the weaker members of the party were less vulnerable, or would intentionally lure the foe into a position which would leave them more vulnerable. Admittedly, skills like this could not be easy to come by, but I simply cannot imagine a hardened veteran of battle not somehow positioning himself between his weaker companions and the enemy... especially the paladin types.

Now perhaps this might not translate into mudding parameters quite the way I envision it, but maybe a skill which allows the tank to put himself between his group and the switching mob, like protect or guard. At lower levels it would be extremely difficult to protect even one party member, impossible to guard more than one, but at levels approaching 50, it seems to me that the skills of a seasoned warrior would allow him to keep at least one comparable enemy from reaching his party. Perhaps even negatives to the success of the skill dependant upon number of mobs attacking the tank... more enemies to defend against, less chance of keeping his companions safe.
Just a thought.
Ellyriel - farm elf from Oklahoma
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Postby Uthgar » Wed May 23, 2001 5:26 pm

There is a low-level spell that you can use to end all your bashing/switching/tripping worries: blindness. Use it, it works. Furthermore, a lot of classes have it in one form or another.

Uthgar
rylan
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Postby rylan » Wed May 23, 2001 5:35 pm

Hey Uthgar, higher lvl mobs tend to have insane spellsaves (IC sleeping guest saved 8 blinds in a row last night), and incidently they are the ones that you want to keep from switching the most :P
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Postby cherzra » Wed May 23, 2001 7:19 pm

Geez people bring a warrior or two! This isn't a solo mud. Bash is there for a reason... As a warrior I can't solo dick with the crap eq that I have atm, so what do I do? I bring along other players who perform that job. Yes, I have to share the xp, but it is the only way I *CAN* get xp. You play a caster with spiffy offense (talking about invokers or necs here) AND want be able to solo mobs too? Group with the poor warrior who can't do anything but tank Image

Cherzra cheers for mobs who switch!

[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 05-23-2001).]
Ubek
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Postby Ubek » Thu May 24, 2001 1:31 pm

Heh, so as a necro, to avoid switching, my only option is to group with someone who has blind?
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Postby Tasan » Thu May 24, 2001 5:47 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ubek:
Heh, so as a necro, to avoid switching, my only option is to group with someone who has blind?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, if you don't want to get switched to, why not kill mobs that aren't flagged as warrior. You are obviously killing a warrior mob(soldier) in the post, and should EXPECT to be switched to. Not to mention, I think it's a lot more realistic that a soldier would see a necro and realize that "hey, if I kill the necro, his pets go poof too". Get a basher if you got problems soloing warrior mobs, or kill other mobtypes.

Btw, on another note, the fact that spell effects don't hinder a mob until the next rnd might explain the problem with summon insects too.

Twyl
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Postby Kiloppile » Thu May 24, 2001 6:01 pm

As a necro, if you want to avoid switch... um... get ghouls? They bash. Or use spectres, they rescue.

Or... OMG I can't believe I have to say this to a necro... FIGHT INVIS.

[This message has been edited by Kiloppile (edited 05-24-2001).]
Ubek
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Postby Ubek » Thu May 24, 2001 9:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kiloppile:
<B>As a necro, if you want to avoid switch... um... get ghouls? They bash. Or use spectres, they rescue.

Or... OMG I can't believe I have to say this to a necro... FIGHT INVIS.

[This message has been edited by Kiloppile (edited 05-24-2001).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Kilo,

You are not telling me anything new. We can fight invis at 31+, Our pets actually do decent damage. Ghouls come at lvl 41. Specs are raisable at 21, they can rescue, but after the 4th switch, I'd be out of hps :P

Tasan, it's realistic a warrior would want to kill the mage off, but 6 switches in mud battle seems abit unrealistic for me :P Like I mentioned earlier, I understand a few switches, but having to flee from 2-3 switches a battle, and going up to around 6 switches in some battles, it doens't add anything to the game, just more frustration.
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu May 24, 2001 9:12 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ubek:
<B> Like I mentioned earlier, I understand a few switches, but having to flee from 2-3 switches a battle, and going up to around 6 switches in some battles, it doens't add anything to the game, just more frustration.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Au contraire, it adds quite a bit to the game. More frustration for you, perhaps, as you try to solo things, but generally the mobs act "smarter" now, by switching to the PCs that are nuking the hell out of them, which means that players will have to strategize more, which just generally makes the game MUCH more interesting. =)

--D2
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Thu May 24, 2001 9:13 pm

When you fight a caster mob, are you gonna get pissed that it casts offense at you every 2 rounds?


Of course not.

Then don't complain that warrior mobs bash.

Bring a warrior to bash.
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Postby azzixxenae » Thu May 24, 2001 9:18 pm

1. Hrmm, more switching by mobs than was done on Soj 2.

2. Imms putting more emphasis on PC tanks vs pets.

3. Imm vision and goal to tailor/change classes more for goup usage (necros, shamans, etc).

I don't know..it kinda all melds together like some fabulous plan.
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Postby Kiloppile » Thu May 24, 2001 9:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ubek:
<B> Hey Kilo,

You are not telling me anything new. We can fight invis at 31+, Our pets actually do decent damage. Ghouls come at lvl 41. Specs are raisable at 21, they can rescue, but after the 4th switch, I'd be out of hps :P

Tasan, it's realistic a warrior would want to kill the mage off, but 6 switches in mud battle seems abit unrealistic for me :P Like I mentioned earlier, I understand a few switches, but having to flee from 2-3 switches a battle, and going up to around 6 switches in some battles, it doens't add anything to the game, just more frustration.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG... you mean you might have to bring a warrior or 2 along at early levels?
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Postby Zagaz » Fri May 25, 2001 7:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by D2:
<B> Au contraire, it adds quite a bit to the game. More frustration for you, perhaps, as you try to solo things, but generally the mobs act "smarter" now, by switching to the PCs that are nuking the hell out of them, which means that players will have to strategize more, which just generally makes the game MUCH more interesting. =)

--D2</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I agree with you on this one. I may be sadistic, but I play a Drow Warrior and I actually enjoy rescuing my Drow invoker or enchanter or cleric for whom I tank. Switching certainly does add more strategy to the battles, and I like the RP factor afterwards. All characters mentioned earlier are 'brothers' and at earlier levels my older brother would scold me, and tell me to get better at rescuing them if I wanted to join them in the future. And besides, I just have to laugh sometimes....the enchanter in our little family has become quote adept at fleeing at the first sign of danger to him when the mob switches, and then the mod usually goes back to the tank, me! Image

[This message has been edited by Zagaz (edited 05-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Zagaz (edited 05-25-2001).]
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Postby Elarin » Fri May 25, 2001 8:03 pm

Have any other clerics noticed that Mobs will switch to them consistenly?
It's become really annoying for me when I'm switched to several times in a fight, in spite of only hitting a mob not casting spells at it to get it's attention.

Just wondering if anyone else has seen this or if it's just me (=


Elarin
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Postby Uthgar » Fri May 25, 2001 8:22 pm

Um, clerics get the aforementioned critical spell to prevent switching. Use it.

Uthgar
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Postby Yayaril » Fri May 25, 2001 8:24 pm

Don't forget that rogues can act as 'middle-men', drawing the foe's attention until the warrior can rescue.

Yayaril
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Postby Elarin » Fri May 25, 2001 10:11 pm

Uthgar I do use blind, lots.
It usually fails.
I'm also usually switched to before I get over the assist lag.
If i don't engage, and just cast blind I'm often switched to. The mages, rogue, bard etc in the group never get switched to if I'm around, which seems to me as a bit odd.


Elarin
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Postby Uthgar » Fri May 25, 2001 10:18 pm

I am playing a mortal char and use blind exactly the way I described and I do fine. Of course, I have like 6 blinds memmed, so I can keep casting if it fails. Occasionally I have to flee from a switch while I am trying to land a blind, but not often.

Uthgar
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Postby Elarin » Sat May 26, 2001 2:10 am

Ok Uthgar take that mortal character of yours and join a group of say a warrior and 2 mages. Don't use blind and see who gets switched to, I bet it will be you (=
if it is you, then you'll know what I'm complaining about. Not that mobs switch, but that they are ALWAYS switching to the cleric unless he's not available.


and some of us don't yet have the luxury of being able to pray 6 blinds <G>


Elarin
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Postby Kiloppile » Sat May 26, 2001 4:09 am

I'm fairly certain that Uthgar didn't disagree with you on that point. They do seem to switch to cleric-types alot. Hrm. What's special about clerics in particular?

[This message has been edited by Kiloppile (edited 05-26-2001).]
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Postby Uthgar » Sat May 26, 2001 4:47 am

I'm sure it will be me. However, as a cleric-type, its my job to do blindness at this level (tho the mages may take over at the high levels). If you think it through, switching to clerics is incredibly intelligent mob behavior.

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Postby Werg » Sat May 26, 2001 8:44 pm

If I (being a warrior) were being attacked by, lets say a warrior, an invoker, and a cleric, the first person I'm gonna want to take out is that fricking cleric, cuz with him in the group, any damage I do to either the voker or the warrior are just going to be negated by the clerics healing, my second priority would of course be the invoker, because damnit those spells hurt! Lastly, I will take out the warrior, because being a warrior myself, I have skills that are best suited to defending myself against another warrior. However, if that warrior is bashing me and rescuing that cleric, I'm going to have a much harder time. Not to mention if I was blind, because on top of that, my damage output is BLEH.

What I'm saying is extremely obvious to some people, but other have a hard time trying to understand what the imms are trying to do. I always thought the best games were ones that opponents were somewhat equal to yourself, and that required some strategy and thought. *cough*quake3*cough*starcraft*cough*
That's just me tho.
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Postby Jegzed » Sat May 26, 2001 9:01 pm

When you play a pkill mud you ALWAYS go for the cleric.

Ie, target goblin if you goodie scum or smack the dorf in hope that its Ticu Image

/Jegzed

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