While we wait in limbo...
Any chance of getting switch added to rangers? We are supposed to be the 2nd best hitters yet we can't switch targets.
We are also the only warrior sub-class without this...
*You try to switch topics but become confused!*
Since archery isn't in the immediate future..any chance of surprise being made useful?
Suggestion: Make surprise a Critical Hit (if you hit with your first attack), and you are outdoors. (Belleshel explodes from the underbrush attacking mob with unmatched fury).
Thanks,
Belle
Rangers..
In many zones they are useless without range because I'll have the glober globe the rogue over them everytime for hitting and the warriors or paladins/antis for tanking.
With archery they don't need globe.
Just because you're a high level doesn't mean you're useful.. just means you exp a lot.
Jurdex
Dornax
With archery they don't need globe.
Just because you're a high level doesn't mean you're useful.. just means you exp a lot.
Jurdex
Dornax
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zrax:
There are so many high level rangers I find it hard to believe they are as underpowered as they want everyone to believe.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who wants you to believe they are underpowered? A good ranger can make him/herself useful to any group, I mearly suggested some things that look to be an oversite.
Belle
There are more high level rogues then rangers..a considerable change from last wipe.
There are so many high level rangers I find it hard to believe they are as underpowered as they want everyone to believe.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who wants you to believe they are underpowered? A good ranger can make him/herself useful to any group, I mearly suggested some things that look to be an oversite.
Belle
There are more high level rogues then rangers..a considerable change from last wipe.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jurdex:
<B>In many zones they are useless without range because I'll have the glober globe the rogue over them everytime for hitting and the warriors or paladins/antis for tanking.
With archery they don't need globe.
Just because you're a high level doesn't mean you're useful.. just means you exp a lot.
Jurdex
Dornax</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey who gave you dm!
;(
<B>In many zones they are useless without range because I'll have the glober globe the rogue over them everytime for hitting and the warriors or paladins/antis for tanking.
With archery they don't need globe.
Just because you're a high level doesn't mean you're useful.. just means you exp a lot.
Jurdex
Dornax</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey who gave you dm!
;(That's probably because they were the most horribly underpowered class before the changes! The only people who would play a toril 'thief' would be someone who wants to just RP and not get into groups!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by belleshel:
There are more high level rogues then rangers..a considerable change from last wipe.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by belleshel:
There are more high level rogues then rangers..a considerable change from last wipe.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Zrax: Take a look at the high level rangers. Compare that with a list of high level rangers from two wipes ago. You'll only see about 2 discrepencies, namely Belleshel and Nomarack. Bell was very high level last wipe, Nomarack I have no idea about. Simply put, we ALL know our way around and have ALL done this AT LEAST once before. We're underpowered and have been for the last two wipes (though nowhere near as much as thieves were), but we haven't been downgraded either so those of us that grit our teeth and made do with our meager abilities still can do it again.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
There've never been very many bards to post whiny messages on the bbs.
But look at it this way, a rangers primary skill is supposed to be archery.. but that's not implemented yet. So a ranger is equivalent to a bard who can't sing.
Sarvis</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh really? How many +40 bards do u see compare to ranger? How many people do actually play bard over a ranger?
Blung take no prisoner
There've never been very many bards to post whiny messages on the bbs.
But look at it this way, a rangers primary skill is supposed to be archery.. but that's not implemented yet. So a ranger is equivalent to a bard who can't sing.Sarvis</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh really? How many +40 bards do u see compare to ranger? How many people do actually play bard over a ranger?
Blung take no prisoner
And how many were there before wipe? I can only remember 1... Kobei. I know Caedym played a bard but not sure if he ever got that high. Face it, not many people ever played bard... so saying there are no level 40+ bards isn't really saying a whole lot. We've lost just as many high level Rangers (Ragorn) as Bards have this wipe...
Note, I'm not saying bards don't need work. They do... probably even more than rangers. But I'm tired of people saying rangers are fine when half our skills aren't even implemented yet. A LOT of things still need work... don't bitch at us because we want our classes finished. You guys are warriors right? How would you feel without bash and shieldpunch? Probably be whining up a storm I'd guess... well, that's all we're doin... tryin to get our classes completed.
Sarvis
Note, I'm not saying bards don't need work. They do... probably even more than rangers. But I'm tired of people saying rangers are fine when half our skills aren't even implemented yet. A LOT of things still need work... don't bitch at us because we want our classes finished. You guys are warriors right? How would you feel without bash and shieldpunch? Probably be whining up a storm I'd guess... well, that's all we're doin... tryin to get our classes completed.
Sarvis
People are certainly entitled to their own opinions, but there are some
undeniable truths some of the younger rangers must come to accept:
1) Rangers are an auxiliary class, they always have been, and always should be. If you want to be vital play a cleric/enchanter/warrior.
2) We will never melee as well as rogues (or a well equipped pal/anti), we will never tank like warriors/pals/antis. But with 5-6 attacks a round we can do considerable damage, on par with rogues outside of
special abilities.
3) Rangers melee is actually improved since last incarnation!
4) Rangers spell selection has greatly improved since last incarnation!
5) As far as I know Archery will not be in for at least 3 weeks, we have a multitude of other skills to make ourselves useful until then. (get yourself a pbone)
6) When Archery comes in we well be the top hitters for damage.
That being said there are a few small suggestions that would take minimal changes from that staff that I suggest from what I've noticed so far:
1) Give us switch, its silly that a warrior does not have this, we are very combat dependant and need this.
2) Make suprise useful (I suggest an automatic Critical Hit if we hit on
our first attack in outdoors setting), this skill _never_ notches, and
doesn't appear to be useful in the slightest.
3) Give rangers _outdoors_ hide (I have a hard time believing a rogue
can disappear in a forest better than a ranger)
4) Slow Poison, since we wont get getting the spell or remove back, make this a skill we can use 1x day or a certain amount based on our level, we know the woods, deal with venomous creatures, makes sense we can treat poison.
Jack of all trades, master of non.....until Archery,
Belle
undeniable truths some of the younger rangers must come to accept:
1) Rangers are an auxiliary class, they always have been, and always should be. If you want to be vital play a cleric/enchanter/warrior.
2) We will never melee as well as rogues (or a well equipped pal/anti), we will never tank like warriors/pals/antis. But with 5-6 attacks a round we can do considerable damage, on par with rogues outside of
special abilities.
3) Rangers melee is actually improved since last incarnation!
4) Rangers spell selection has greatly improved since last incarnation!
5) As far as I know Archery will not be in for at least 3 weeks, we have a multitude of other skills to make ourselves useful until then. (get yourself a pbone)
6) When Archery comes in we well be the top hitters for damage.
That being said there are a few small suggestions that would take minimal changes from that staff that I suggest from what I've noticed so far:
1) Give us switch, its silly that a warrior does not have this, we are very combat dependant and need this.
2) Make suprise useful (I suggest an automatic Critical Hit if we hit on
our first attack in outdoors setting), this skill _never_ notches, and
doesn't appear to be useful in the slightest.
3) Give rangers _outdoors_ hide (I have a hard time believing a rogue
can disappear in a forest better than a ranger)
4) Slow Poison, since we wont get getting the spell or remove back, make this a skill we can use 1x day or a certain amount based on our level, we know the woods, deal with venomous creatures, makes sense we can treat poison.
Jack of all trades, master of non.....until Archery,
Belle
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
And how many were there before wipe? I can only remember 1... Kobei. I know Caedym played a bard but not sure if he ever got that high. Face it, not many people ever played bard... so saying there are no level 40+ bards isn't really saying a whole lot. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*cough*
In Sojourn2 there were 4 40+ bards within 3 months of opening. Gurns, Kneth, Murthir and Lycus.
/Jegzed
And how many were there before wipe? I can only remember 1... Kobei. I know Caedym played a bard but not sure if he ever got that high. Face it, not many people ever played bard... so saying there are no level 40+ bards isn't really saying a whole lot. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*cough*
In Sojourn2 there were 4 40+ bards within 3 months of opening. Gurns, Kneth, Murthir and Lycus.
/Jegzed
hrm dunno why you think rogues are so popular
i'm a 35 orc rogue. there's only one other evil rogue as high or higher who's not an alt of someone and that's nilan. i'm never asked to group for anything whether it's xp or small zoning. only way i get into group is if kiluk or vassar are in the group or if i whine at the leader long enough that they let me in.
rogues are useless for the simple fact that melee damage is weak in this incarnation of the game. my rogue is only 25/15 and it took the dedication of a few friends to bring that hitroll up from 17, and i STILL cant hit anything. the rogue gear goes to the people's rogue alts, there are few to no traps in the zones, the traps that are there instantly kill the rogue, there are no !key, pickable doors in zones, and there's no ranged for luring.
the rogues on the goodie side, from what i seen i may be wrong, have a large circle of friends. i myself have a very small circle and with there being far less evils and a clique that i'm not a part of it's harder than folks realize.
wanna be a rogue? play a human or halfling or other good race.
Narial - who lost her mind when she found out that some caster pharmed two ruby rings and put them on his/her alt instead of giving them to Nilan
i'm a 35 orc rogue. there's only one other evil rogue as high or higher who's not an alt of someone and that's nilan. i'm never asked to group for anything whether it's xp or small zoning. only way i get into group is if kiluk or vassar are in the group or if i whine at the leader long enough that they let me in.
rogues are useless for the simple fact that melee damage is weak in this incarnation of the game. my rogue is only 25/15 and it took the dedication of a few friends to bring that hitroll up from 17, and i STILL cant hit anything. the rogue gear goes to the people's rogue alts, there are few to no traps in the zones, the traps that are there instantly kill the rogue, there are no !key, pickable doors in zones, and there's no ranged for luring.
the rogues on the goodie side, from what i seen i may be wrong, have a large circle of friends. i myself have a very small circle and with there being far less evils and a clique that i'm not a part of it's harder than folks realize.
wanna be a rogue? play a human or halfling or other good race.
Narial - who lost her mind when she found out that some caster pharmed two ruby rings and put them on his/her alt instead of giving them to Nilan
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dinggle:
<B>
Narial - who lost her mind when she found out that some caster pharmed two ruby rings and put them on his/her alt instead of giving them to Nilan</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is not true... My alt was holding them for Nilan until the next time I saw him on. Then he got all rubied up. How did you know about that anyways? Instert random flame directed at you for even posting that here.
-Jaznolg
One of many Nilan spoilers.
<B>
Narial - who lost her mind when she found out that some caster pharmed two ruby rings and put them on his/her alt instead of giving them to Nilan</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is not true... My alt was holding them for Nilan until the next time I saw him on. Then he got all rubied up. How did you know about that anyways? Instert random flame directed at you for even posting that here.
-Jaznolg
One of many Nilan spoilers.
bell is correct. improvements are good. narial i talked w/ nilan. he luvs the evil. it's kinda scary if u ask me. but anyways as u said u are only lvl 35, which might explain a little about grouping. well for zones anyways. i play a little evil but i know they're very inclusive. sometimes they are too inclusive. running 12 mans exp boat exp group. it's insane i tell ya but it harbor good feelings. thats why they are able to have 24 mans zone groups. better to error on the side of good feelings than disunity
well i did not know that that particular pair did go to nilan that weekend, but i have seen alt rogues better decked out than he is - under level 30 alts. if i had intended to flame anyone i would have named names.
and there's really no reason to have more than one rogue in a group, even if that group - zoning or otherwise - has 24 people since the puny melee damage any class does now is nothing really to the higher level mobs.
i'm jealous of nilan - he's happy no matter what which is very cool
and there's really no reason to have more than one rogue in a group, even if that group - zoning or otherwise - has 24 people since the puny melee damage any class does now is nothing really to the higher level mobs.
i'm jealous of nilan - he's happy no matter what which is very cool
Excellent discussion. I have a simple question to ask regarding skills:
How is it that the paragons of good in the forest have a pathetic rescue? One would think, in context, that a Ranger's rescue should only be second to a Paladin's, yet rescue for me functions only about 15% of the time (based on my additions to Bel's fine combat stats *wink*). I think that's a little less-then-realistic. Most of the warriors/pallys that I spoken to at the same level have more then twice my rescue and I have yet to notch during a rescue at level 24, even spamming rescue back and forth with a warrior for over 2 hours the other night.
Just my perspective on it. I'd like to see a Ranger's ability to rescue those in need commensurate with their good brethren, the holy Paladins.
Regards,
Saren/Lantinor
How is it that the paragons of good in the forest have a pathetic rescue? One would think, in context, that a Ranger's rescue should only be second to a Paladin's, yet rescue for me functions only about 15% of the time (based on my additions to Bel's fine combat stats *wink*). I think that's a little less-then-realistic. Most of the warriors/pallys that I spoken to at the same level have more then twice my rescue and I have yet to notch during a rescue at level 24, even spamming rescue back and forth with a warrior for over 2 hours the other night.
Just my perspective on it. I'd like to see a Ranger's ability to rescue those in need commensurate with their good brethren, the holy Paladins.
Regards,
Saren/Lantinor
-
Azralek Silvermist
- Sojourner
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Baltimore,MD
- Contact:
Rangers rescue fine when they have to and bash fine when they have to.
they should never ever be primary choice for either
In short rangers sholdnt be rescuing in anything except desperation they get smashed quick so leave that up to the ph4t warriors or the crazy paladins.
or job is to unload damage not try and take it.
hrmm speaking of damage ....
Azralek
they should never ever be primary choice for either
In short rangers sholdnt be rescuing in anything except desperation they get smashed quick so leave that up to the ph4t warriors or the crazy paladins.
or job is to unload damage not try and take it.
hrmm speaking of damage ....
Azralek
I can't really comment about rescue since I haven't spent any real (i.e. skele) time practicing this skill yet. Trust me you don't want this skill to hit as well as warrior/paladin, a ranger who over-rescues is quickly a dead ranger Our rescue is something used to pull a mob off a caster long enough for the tanks to rescue the ranger...and in that regard its worked well in the past, but I'll check my % once I've got this skill up.
Belle
Our rescue is something used to pull a mob off a caster long enough for the tanks to rescue the ranger...and in that regard its worked well in the past, but I'll check my % once I've got this skill up.Belle
Touk: The problem with making comments about archery last wipe is that it went through A LOT of upgrades and downgrades to its damage, almost always without the changes being put in the news so only people that played around with it a lot and were observant could tell that it changed. I have no doubt that Miax will make it useful again, but I wouldn't base opinions on it from the previous wipe.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cap'n Touk:
<B>Anybody have parsed or tested damage ratio between rangers & rogues? IMO they both hit pretty damn hard and I don't mind grouping either cuz I know mobs 'll go down way faster.
People complaining about ranger ability and uselessness never saw the high levels in action with range (and don't gimme any crap about it not being in yet, it will be). Waelos was a freeking blender. Roots for example you could just OWN, we used to do it all in 1 pop with range.
I like Bell's ideas for improving though, just saying the overall "usefulness" / "power" of the class is fine.
Touk</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, I have.
Waelos, Ragorn and I all did exhaustive testing in alpha one. We spent weeks on it. I posted about it in another thread with exact numbers of the overall straight damage victor.
Rangers STILL outdo rogues for damage in straight melee. When you factor in the rogues ability to vital strike/circle/assassinate, the chances for more damage by the rogue increases by a percentage based on his/her hit/damage. When rangers DO get thier archery skill, the damage they do will be at the *minimum* equivalent to the damage rogues do including all thier special skills.
Nitania
<B>Anybody have parsed or tested damage ratio between rangers & rogues? IMO they both hit pretty damn hard and I don't mind grouping either cuz I know mobs 'll go down way faster.
People complaining about ranger ability and uselessness never saw the high levels in action with range (and don't gimme any crap about it not being in yet, it will be). Waelos was a freeking blender. Roots for example you could just OWN, we used to do it all in 1 pop with range.
I like Bell's ideas for improving though, just saying the overall "usefulness" / "power" of the class is fine.
Touk</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, I have.
Waelos, Ragorn and I all did exhaustive testing in alpha one. We spent weeks on it. I posted about it in another thread with exact numbers of the overall straight damage victor.
Rangers STILL outdo rogues for damage in straight melee. When you factor in the rogues ability to vital strike/circle/assassinate, the chances for more damage by the rogue increases by a percentage based on his/her hit/damage. When rangers DO get thier archery skill, the damage they do will be at the *minimum* equivalent to the damage rogues do including all thier special skills.
Nitania
Hi guys,
was reading stuff and noticed my name on the ranger thread *rofl Mielikki gonna roll over in her grave i think, if she sees*
I just wanna say that I love all my new friends I play with. You guys are really a great group, I love adventuring with you all.
You always make me feel welcome, which is something I never felt before on this game in all the 5 years I been here.
Until now, i never had a home on this game. Never once have you guys treated me as a tool. Instead I'm am made to feel as an equal, as a friend, and as an adventuring companion. That feeling i'd not trade for all the equipt or power one could want to have. I'd not trade it for the world. I respect you guys all, not just as players, but as people and as my friends.
I live for the adventure and I like sharing it with friends.
May we fight well, May the Surface world bow its knee in our mighty presence!!!! And if we die, know that so long as we die well, (and lets not forget take as many of them with us as we can) we will always die with honor *bow*
Nilan
*Assassin, bane of Waterdeep and all that dare call themselves "Just"*
was reading stuff and noticed my name on the ranger thread *rofl Mielikki gonna roll over in her grave i think, if she sees*
I just wanna say that I love all my new friends I play with. You guys are really a great group, I love adventuring with you all.
You always make me feel welcome, which is something I never felt before on this game in all the 5 years I been here.
Until now, i never had a home on this game. Never once have you guys treated me as a tool. Instead I'm am made to feel as an equal, as a friend, and as an adventuring companion. That feeling i'd not trade for all the equipt or power one could want to have. I'd not trade it for the world. I respect you guys all, not just as players, but as people and as my friends.
I live for the adventure and I like sharing it with friends.
May we fight well, May the Surface world bow its knee in our mighty presence!!!! And if we die, know that so long as we die well, (and lets not forget take as many of them with us as we can) we will always die with honor *bow*
Nilan
*Assassin, bane of Waterdeep and all that dare call themselves "Just"*
oopsie almost forgot
Jazzy gave me those nice rubies. he surprized me one day and i remember bouncing around at the fountain
Narial, I remember you once asking me if I had rubies and stuff. This was at a time when i did not, remember?
Remember what I told yas bro *hugs*
I said " I just play and try to enjoy my time. equipt will eventually come, no need rush to try grab it, or get upset if ya dont got it. Just play, have fun and eventually things fall into place"
A few days latter Jaz surprized me with ruby presents *smile* (thanks jaz)
And thanks all you guys that help me out, adventure with me, and have fun.
Nilan
*We go assassinate Lord Piergieron soon --- Who's in with me!!!*
ROAR
Jazzy gave me those nice rubies. he surprized me one day and i remember bouncing around at the fountain
Narial, I remember you once asking me if I had rubies and stuff. This was at a time when i did not, remember?
Remember what I told yas bro *hugs*
I said " I just play and try to enjoy my time. equipt will eventually come, no need rush to try grab it, or get upset if ya dont got it. Just play, have fun and eventually things fall into place"
A few days latter Jaz surprized me with ruby presents *smile* (thanks jaz)
And thanks all you guys that help me out, adventure with me, and have fun.
Nilan
*We go assassinate Lord Piergieron soon --- Who's in with me!!!*
ROAR
nodz nilli-pooh...i asked you after i learned that rubies were finally being gotten, how they were being got (some changes to how we used to do them) and who they went to. i assumed they would go to you even if you werent there, but was told they went to someone's alt rogue instead. so that irritated me. bad enough we have to compete with bards for our gear now.
but like i said i had no idea you got that pair, and i'm happy for it since with all the time you've put in as a rogue solely i believe you deserve the best and will fight for that, even if it's not my place.
extreme respect, i guess.
but like i said i had no idea you got that pair, and i'm happy for it since with all the time you've put in as a rogue solely i believe you deserve the best and will fight for that, even if it's not my place.
extreme respect, i guess.
Return to “S3 Gameplay Discussion Archive”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests