I heard last night that pets (in my case spirit) can no longer kick to start a fight. This opens up a big potential issue. When a spirit (not sure about other pets) starts a fight it is my understanding that there is some chance that they will hitall. This was not the case with kick since there is no such thing as kick all. This makes tanking a serious problem in rooms when you have multiple mobs. It was bad enough when a shaman couldnt flee a fight when switched to in fear that the spirit would hit the "what do you want your epitaph to say" mob watching the battle. Now it is a potential problem just having the spirit start the fight.
There is another disadvantage to the lack of kicking to start and that is the waiting for the mob to strike back to engage. With the Kick you see the kick immediately hit or miss and can assist. Without it I have seen you have to wait for the mob to engage the spirit.
I know why the kick feature to start a fight was taken out (thanks Rangers and Palis). I think we can handle the waiting to engage the mob. The issue of the hitall is a big problem.
My suggestion is this, either take the hitall skill away from the pets and give them the ability to switch when so ordered, give them the hitall skill as an ordered skill only, or disable the hitall skill on first attacks by pets.
My preference would be replacing it with the ability to switch.
Just my thoughts...
kick me when im down why don't you?
Hey don't blame us!! I didn't even know about the kick thing... I think it was the druids with their treants. 
Sarvis
PS. I never liked pets having hitall... especially when they do it without orders. I mean, if you can order a pet around and you were walking out of the room you could just order it to not hitall and it wouldn't. But since they automatically do whenever the master leaves the room it's like they have no control over their pet. bleh!
Sarvis
PS. I never liked pets having hitall... especially when they do it without orders. I mean, if you can order a pet around and you were walking out of the room you could just order it to not hitall and it wouldn't. But since they automatically do whenever the master leaves the room it's like they have no control over their pet. bleh!
-
Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hyldryn:
Why can't you kick to start the fight anymore? This stupid paladin is wondering what he had anything to do with something as unrelated as pet kicking.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You could use kick to start a fight and have your horse tank.
Why can't you kick to start the fight anymore? This stupid paladin is wondering what he had anything to do with something as unrelated as pet kicking.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You could use kick to start a fight and have your horse tank.
Once again this is something that a few people did to abuse something that is a vital part to how another class plays on the mud. And once again the immorts over-reacted and screwed everyone over, instead of punishing the culprits. Why not just edit the code that prohibits pets flagged as mounts from kicking at all. To make it so NO pets can kick to start a battle is really lame. What makes it even worse is that as a conjurer I can't reliably order an ellie to shieldpunch of bash to start battles, so this really screws us over. What else can you do to take a sucky class and screw it over even more. Thanks for nothin.
Lyt
Lyt
like all tweaks and changes, I can work around this one, but it is a little frustrating.
When I ordered my spirit to kick a mob, he invariably missed, but at least I saw the message immediately and knew he was on a mob and it was ok to start casting on it. It just helped since doing exp by rote can make a person careless.
When I ordered my spirit to kick a mob, he invariably missed, but at least I saw the message immediately and knew he was on a mob and it was ok to start casting on it. It just helped since doing exp by rote can make a person careless.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lyt:
<B>Once again this is something that a few people did to abuse something that is a vital part to how another class plays on the mud. And once again the immorts over-reacted and screwed everyone over, instead of punishing the culprits. Why not just edit the code that prohibits pets flagged as mounts from kicking at all. To make it so NO pets can kick to start a battle is really lame. What makes it even worse is that as a conjurer I can't reliably order an ellie to shieldpunch of bash to start battles, so this really screws us over. What else can you do to take a sucky class and screw it over even more. Thanks for nothin.
Lyt</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow, somebody has a case of the sour grapes :P
I have been reading through alot of posts and catching up on the BBS, and I notice that you complain about things way too much, mister!
Turn that frown upside down! Life is too short to be a grumpy grumper
<B>Once again this is something that a few people did to abuse something that is a vital part to how another class plays on the mud. And once again the immorts over-reacted and screwed everyone over, instead of punishing the culprits. Why not just edit the code that prohibits pets flagged as mounts from kicking at all. To make it so NO pets can kick to start a battle is really lame. What makes it even worse is that as a conjurer I can't reliably order an ellie to shieldpunch of bash to start battles, so this really screws us over. What else can you do to take a sucky class and screw it over even more. Thanks for nothin.
Lyt</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow, somebody has a case of the sour grapes :P
I have been reading through alot of posts and catching up on the BBS, and I notice that you complain about things way too much, mister!
Turn that frown upside down! Life is too short to be a grumpy grumper
wow.. lyt is pissed :P
So, you could have a horse tank with kick.. man, I didn't even know that.. nobody I group with has done that. And yes, I agree with Hyldryn, its pretty cheesy that some people were doing it. But I think this change hurts other classes a lot more than it fixes by stopping the few people who used this loophole.
So, you could have a horse tank with kick.. man, I didn't even know that.. nobody I group with has done that. And yes, I agree with Hyldryn, its pretty cheesy that some people were doing it. But I think this change hurts other classes a lot more than it fixes by stopping the few people who used this loophole.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kuurg:
<B>like all tweaks and changes, I can work around this one, but it is a little frustrating.
When I ordered my spirit to kick a mob, he invariably missed, but at least I saw the message immediately and knew he was on a mob and it was ok to start casting on it. It just helped since doing exp by rote can make a person careless.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed. Of course now im even more hesitant not to assist the spirit first and begin casting because I have an even greater lag time between the start of the fight and when I assist which increases the chance for a hitall. Shrug another reason to just mem heals and stones, go invis and be a cleric instead of a spanky nuker like I soooo enjoy Of course this means I can't assist either. Hmm, out of options. I guess i'll tank now HEHE.
Seriously though, if the gods could take a look at the hitall issue it would really help us out. Pets are already fairly useless when you get to higher levels due to the hit point reduction. Would hate to see them become relatively useless in levels 21 - 35 when we really need them to gain exp due to this issue.
<B>like all tweaks and changes, I can work around this one, but it is a little frustrating.
When I ordered my spirit to kick a mob, he invariably missed, but at least I saw the message immediately and knew he was on a mob and it was ok to start casting on it. It just helped since doing exp by rote can make a person careless.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed. Of course now im even more hesitant not to assist the spirit first and begin casting because I have an even greater lag time between the start of the fight and when I assist which increases the chance for a hitall. Shrug another reason to just mem heals and stones, go invis and be a cleric instead of a spanky nuker like I soooo enjoy Of course this means I can't assist either. Hmm, out of options. I guess i'll tank now HEHE.
Seriously though, if the gods could take a look at the hitall issue it would really help us out. Pets are already fairly useless when you get to higher levels due to the hit point reduction. Would hate to see them become relatively useless in levels 21 - 35 when we really need them to gain exp due to this issue.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Depok:
<B>
I know why the kick feature to start a fight was taken out (thanks Rangers and Palis). I think we can handle the waiting to engage the mob. The issue of the hitall is a big problem.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um. I havent seen a ranger use a mount since flankblock was taken out. If rangers had a hand in this, it certainly wasn't widespread. I really don't appreciate this generalization by whomever started it, as rangers have enough hatred to deal with.
Izzy, the non-mounted ranger-type
BTW: I do have sympathy for conjies and shammys on this one. the mount !kick flag idea works. Even better would be to change the pet hitall bullsh!t.
[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 07-30-2001).]
<B>
I know why the kick feature to start a fight was taken out (thanks Rangers and Palis). I think we can handle the waiting to engage the mob. The issue of the hitall is a big problem.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um. I havent seen a ranger use a mount since flankblock was taken out. If rangers had a hand in this, it certainly wasn't widespread. I really don't appreciate this generalization by whomever started it, as rangers have enough hatred to deal with.
Izzy, the non-mounted ranger-type
BTW: I do have sympathy for conjies and shammys on this one. the mount !kick flag idea works. Even better would be to change the pet hitall bullsh!t.
[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 07-30-2001).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by izarek:
[BBTW: I do have sympathy for conjies and shammys on this one. the mount !kick flag idea works. Even better would be to change the pet hitall bullsh!t.
[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually the fact that "tank" style pets hitall is done on purpose, especially when the pet owner is not in the room or assisting. It helps to keep folks from cheesing stuff by standing there invis while the pet does all the work. It's pretty lame, but surely it does keep you from trying to kill one small mob in a room with a bunch of big mobs in it. And stuff
Ruld
[BBTW: I do have sympathy for conjies and shammys on this one. the mount !kick flag idea works. Even better would be to change the pet hitall bullsh!t.
[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually the fact that "tank" style pets hitall is done on purpose, especially when the pet owner is not in the room or assisting. It helps to keep folks from cheesing stuff by standing there invis while the pet does all the work. It's pretty lame, but surely it does keep you from trying to kill one small mob in a room with a bunch of big mobs in it. And stuff
Ruld
Actually the fact that "tank" style pets hitall is done on purpose, especially when the pet owner is not in the room or assisting. It helps to keep folks from cheesing stuff by standing there invis while the pet does all the work. It's pretty lame, but surely it does keep you from trying to kill one small mob in a room with a bunch of big mobs in it. And stuff
Ruld
Aye Ruld, I know. I'm personally just dont like rules in games that have no logic behind them. Why for pity's sake would your spirit roach attack everything in the room when ya leave? I understand *why* they made it that way, it just doesn't fit and that kind of stuff irritates me (mainly because I had a DM last year who made arbitrary rules just to keep us from succeeding).
Izzy
Ruld
Aye Ruld, I know. I'm personally just dont like rules in games that have no logic behind them. Why for pity's sake would your spirit roach attack everything in the room when ya leave? I understand *why* they made it that way, it just doesn't fit and that kind of stuff irritates me (mainly because I had a DM last year who made arbitrary rules just to keep us from succeeding).
Izzy
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by izarek:
<B>
Actually the fact that "tank" style pets hitall is done on purpose, especially when the pet owner is not in the room or assisting. It helps to keep folks from cheesing stuff by standing there invis while the pet does all the work. It's pretty lame, but surely it does keep you from trying to kill one small mob in a room with a bunch of big mobs in it. And stuff
Ruld
Aye Ruld, I know. I'm personally just dont like rules in games that have no logic behind them. Why for pity's sake would your spirit roach attack everything in the room when ya leave? I understand *why* they made it that way, it just doesn't fit and that kind of stuff irritates me (mainly because I had a DM last year who made arbitrary rules just to keep us from succeeding).
Izzy</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My opinion would be not engaged not gettin exp. I know this is a prob for casters and such that dont want to hit a mob physically. That could be addressed by a choice for caster like engage instead of kill or assist. This would be a non physical assisting. It would make you eligible for exp and switching however.
Lots of code just to address this
<B>
Actually the fact that "tank" style pets hitall is done on purpose, especially when the pet owner is not in the room or assisting. It helps to keep folks from cheesing stuff by standing there invis while the pet does all the work. It's pretty lame, but surely it does keep you from trying to kill one small mob in a room with a bunch of big mobs in it. And stuff
Ruld
Aye Ruld, I know. I'm personally just dont like rules in games that have no logic behind them. Why for pity's sake would your spirit roach attack everything in the room when ya leave? I understand *why* they made it that way, it just doesn't fit and that kind of stuff irritates me (mainly because I had a DM last year who made arbitrary rules just to keep us from succeeding).
Izzy</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My opinion would be not engaged not gettin exp. I know this is a prob for casters and such that dont want to hit a mob physically. That could be addressed by a choice for caster like engage instead of kill or assist. This would be a non physical assisting. It would make you eligible for exp and switching however.
Lots of code just to address this
Return to “S3 Gameplay Discussion Archive”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests