Thank you.

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Hamibugan Sinweaver
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Thank you.

Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Tue Aug 14, 2001 2:47 am

I don't typically bitch about crap the imms do here because I feel they have a pretty good head on their shoulders and it is their MUD after all. But I'm kinda fed up.

I'm just thankful that what seemed like some very promising changes to a very promising class have been nerfed. And now the one (that's easy to find anyhow) set of mobs that was fun for clerics to solo and worth a shit in exp have now been made not worth the time to get the exp from them.

I assume this is the way they want the class....Useful to anyone in the game but themselves so I guess it's just time to find a new class.

Hamibugan "finding a new char" Sinweaver
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Postby Garosh » Tue Aug 14, 2001 2:21 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hamibugan Sinweaver:
<B>
I assume this is the way they want the class....Useful to anyone in the game but themselves so I guess it's just time to find a new class.

Hamibugan "finding a new char" Sinweaver</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With that in mind, Dont play a Warrior, same boat. Image
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Postby Vipplin » Tue Aug 14, 2001 5:27 pm

It seems to me that classes are either good solo or have a unique skill in groups. I think shamans are the only exception. I recommend you play a shaman Image

I do feel your pain, loss of a fav xp mob hurts in the soul!
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:19 am

Kind of hard to respond to that when I don't knoiw what you're referring to..



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Postby cherzra » Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:44 am

I think they mean the tower spectres, which could be killed by a cleric and 1 companion.
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Postby Jegzed » Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:58 am

And it still can Image

Just them rocky duergars falling on every single quake.
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Postby rylan » Wed Aug 15, 2001 12:19 pm

snicker
I think its cool that some mobs will quake now Image
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Postby Dalar » Wed Aug 15, 2001 4:47 pm

why are specs so farkin' easy! they should get shrug b/c they're undead or something.
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Postby Shevarash » Wed Aug 15, 2001 5:58 pm

Complaining that specs are too hard now?

C'mon, they were way cheesy and still are to some degree.

But, Id' still like to hear from Hami what he's talking about..


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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:41 pm

Shevy,

I was extremely irritable when I wrote that so I apologize to an extent. I suppose what it boils down to for me is the inabilities I feel clerics have to be useful to themselves i.e. please see comments under Ideas (Very Possible New Cleric Spells). Not only did (un)holy word get downed, my version of the spell is totally useless really.

I finally took someones harsh advice to heart that maybe it was just that I wasn't playing my class to it's potential and had no patience. I'm sure the latter is definitely true and possibly the first. Yes, I figured out how to still solo specs it's just not really worth the time and risk to me.

After reading through some posts yesterday some of my ire about the ideas we were posting not being responded to really was answered also when I read a post by either Shev or Kia can't remember which stating that they didn't and don't want to respond to comments in the Idea portion because it opens up a can of worms for them, but they DO read them. I can now understand why they don't by reading those comments.

It wasn't meant as an outright bitch session right in your face Shev, sorry. If I was to strip a meaning out of it though it would be please review the uselessness of unholy word, please review the uselessness of 9th circle in general, and please review the fact that every other support class gets some sort of spells they can use for themselves that are really worth something: gate, relo, shamans get stone skin, di, and invis *boggle* (I still fail to see the light shining that class balanced).

That's my gripe and from a better attitude standpoint too. Image

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Postby sok » Wed Aug 15, 2001 10:50 pm

cleric are high lvl chars. they suck at lower onces but they more than make up for it later on. 9th circle-- plane shift. the ability to shift between planes is awesome. hami send me a tell, i can tell a couple of cool eq i got cuz of shift
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Wed Aug 15, 2001 10:56 pm

I know it has a few small advantages. But like I said in other posts. It is only useful for those FEW things. And you gotta be good enough and lucky enough to walk the planes alone to get those. But when you have gaters and rifters and no target specific portal spellers it's really kind of useless I would think.

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Postby rylan » Thu Aug 16, 2001 12:14 pm

I've only had 1 instance so far this wipe where planeshift would've been extremely useful to get my ass off of demi since we got spanked and I had 5 aggros after me.

But other than stuff like that, its really a novelty. Guess thats why there are only a couple priests have shift. EP is pretty much the only fairly safe place you can shift to.

Oh sok, yeah, it was possible to get some cool stuff solo with shift before (on Toril etc), but not really now. Odds are you'll end up asking for a cr from some nasty mob.

I think one of the big discouragements with clerics is holy/unholy word, and how absolutely -crappy- our exp gains are. After a full jot run last night, I got 3 notches, which the non-caster types in the group that were my lvl or higher got 2x as much.. heh
I've essentially given up on exp because its too depressing.
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Aug 16, 2001 12:17 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rylan:
<B>I think one of the big discouragements with clerics is holy/unholy word, and how absolutely -crappy- our exp gains are. After a full jot run last night, I got 3 notches, which the non-caster types in the group that were my lvl or higher got 2x as much.. heh
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Notching from a full jot run? Is that an urban legend or something that warriors taunt us casters with?
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:21 pm

I don't really bother to exp anymore either. I used to make time JUST to log on and exp, but when I get like 10-15 notches in like 3-4 hours in a good group, I just ain't got that kinda time. I just log when I find time and kill the same mob over and over again and I can get 20-25 notches in the same amount of time. Of course the entertainment factor of that one mob is absolutely overwhelming so I usually only last 1.5 hours and go watch a movie or hit the club.

Heh, I got 2 notches and three corpses last time I went to Jot.

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Postby Mplor » Fri Aug 17, 2001 3:09 am

re: Planeshift

It owns. You are a gating char with word of recall. Play with it and you will find it's not as dangerous as you'd think (unless you shift prime!)

[This message has been edited by Mplor (edited 08-16-2001).]
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Fri Aug 17, 2001 4:28 am

"(unless you shift prime!)"

LOL, so I can rent on Astral then right?


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Postby cherzra » Fri Aug 17, 2001 7:38 am

cough word cough
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Fri Aug 17, 2001 10:08 am

Nod, but if I'm correct FP is !word? And maybe others?
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Postby Mplor » Fri Aug 17, 2001 3:52 pm

EP is like the Turning Point of the planes. If you are in Jot, or someplace else thats !word, just shift EP then word. Unless you arent paying attention, you can word from EP (or astral for that matter) before the mob in your room even notices you 99% of the time.

Plane-shifters can get anywhere a gater can, and do it more safely (prime material plane excluded). They just cant take others along for the ride. But if your group can open a rift/shift to a off-plane target, or whatever you evils do, (gate-well for goodies) then the experienced cleric is the best suited char to volunteer to be the target.
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Postby zipalodok » Sun Aug 19, 2001 5:34 pm

pshift blows, i mean it kinda sucks p-shiftin to EP then land on a damn Succ and get argo and word, pshift put in simply saves a caster time to put yer big butt on EP or saves yer butt in !word zones, i imply that word should be directed, like c 'word of recal' ghore like chosin which cleric guild you want to word too....
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Postby zipalodok » Sun Aug 19, 2001 11:12 pm

and yes i am dumb there isnt a cleric guild in ghore Image
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Postby Tasan » Mon Aug 20, 2001 1:42 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hamibugan Sinweaver:
Nod, but if I'm correct FP is !word? And maybe others?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FP is not !word.

<> The Elemental Plane of Fire
Room size: Huge (L:100 ft W:100 ft H:100 ft)
Exits: -N -E -S -W -U -D
A powerful effreeti scout flys here, and moves to attack when he sees you.
A fire elemental is here, roaming his native plane.
You sense a lifeform nearby.
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
...
Trogar group-says 'oh word V'
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
Touk group-says 'that's just EM isn't it?'
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
Penshah gets a black leather skin from his bag of holding.
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
Lig raises his holy symbol and smiles broadly.
Meruin completes his spell...
Meruin utters the words, 'gate'
There is a slight breeze as the dusts swirl around and condense.
into a rainbow colored portal.
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
Lig clambers to his feet.
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
Verarb group-says '!word'
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >

Verarb starts casting a spell.
Lig starts casting a spell.
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<> You peer into a rainbow colored portal and see...
Bend in the Brush Trail
Room size: Very large (L:40 ft W:80 ft H:500 ft)
Exits: -N -W
You sense a lifeform nearby.
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
Verarb completes his spell...
Verarb utters the words, 'word of recall'
Verarb utters a single word and disappears.
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
Touk scratches at an itch.
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
Trogar group-says 'next'
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
Lig completes his spell...
Lig utters the words, 'remove poison'
Judrat looks MUCH healthier.
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >
<>
Verarb group-says 'oh lookit that'
< 373h/373H 172p/172P 120v/120V >

Twyl
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Postby Altan » Mon Aug 20, 2001 11:35 am

I don't get into these "bitch" sessions much, cause I find that thier normally stupid, but Hami, I personally think you are 100% wrong, yes, were clerics, always will be, and pshift kinda sucks, but as Mplor said
"use what ya got", basically, I played a cleric for years, and pshift rocks as far as I'm conserned, yes, it is random, yes it is a shitty 9th spell, and yes we need something else there, I still to this day do not understand why shaman get group-heal when that should be a cleric spell,BUT, I'm not worried about it, i'm a full healer, well, used to be, you understand what i'm saying i'm sure, as a shaman a vit does what, 90 points? as a cleric a vit does 200 points? you dont' find that interesting, This club/mud/game is set up for GROUPS, you know that same As I do, and I take this mud as that, I can solo as my shaman, and I do, I haven't gotten Altan back up to "solo" high enough yet, used to do alot of it, but to gripe because of what you consider a "lame" spell is wrong boo.. Think about how often you've been in a group and SEEN someone else NOT grouped, why? because they were NOT cleric/high enough/known enough.. yadda yadda, lotta reasons, I Can TRUELY understand why you would be irritated, but look at the other side of the coin, name another class that has 4k hp's other than cleric? at level 50 you have 6 full heals, that's 400 x 6, that's 2400, then you have lets say.. 850 hp's, that's now 3250 hp's yo have control over, yeah.. you'll loose em.. but look at a warrior, they have, lets say.. hmm.. to make it fair.. 1k hp's. they get hit.. they still have 1k hp's, minus however many they got hit, PLUS they can't flee and mem those spells back, causwe they can't friggin cast, we have an advantage, yes, I understand that some classes had OVER advantages, but were still "THE" healers, no one will ever replace us, they can't, we are.. for lack of another term, the Elite. we do what we do, were not ment to solo shit, if we do/can, great. but look at the grouping part of it, were ESSENTIAL to a group, can you say that about a bard/invoker/enchanter/rogue/illusionist so on so forth. I cleric and a warrior con rock anything. bar none. I personally think. Pick another class if you wanna gripe, but clerics rock.

I am NOT slamming Hami, I personally do NOT know him, I do know cleric class, or used to, and am trying to again, takes time. But I do know that clerics are speacial to every group, hence the point I was trying to make.

Play fun.. Image
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Mon Aug 20, 2001 12:17 pm

From the title of this section: "Feedback, Bugs, and other little quirks and nasties that you have found."

From Altan: "but to gripe because of what you consider a "lame" spell is wrong boo.."

I see plenty of people grouped when I'm NOT grouped because there are too many ressers. I see another shaman getting taken zoning over another cleric because shamans have gheal.

Name one other class that gets heal, stone skin, a pet, gheal, invis, di, etc. etc.

Clerics aren't what I feel they could be. And 90% of that is because shamans are so "special".

Clerics aren't meant to be fhealers, they're healers, plain and simple. And by some races are rough, tough, powerful by the word of their God. They can walk the wind to different places throughout the lands.

If taking personal deadening changes to a character class you put a TON of time in to is wrong. I'm in left field, heh.

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Postby zipalodok » Mon Aug 20, 2001 2:56 pm

wow *rubs his eyes* actually seein a shaman sayin gheal should be a cleric spell never thought i'd see the day, but what shaman checks hps like a cleric, most use gheals when they get swtiched to or a cloud happens, hence not usin gheal at the right times alot of times or just usin gheal way to much, cant complain with way too much though as long as he dont run out when i need one, but here i go slammin on shamans that gheal should be a cleric spell not a shaman spell, *waits to anticipate all the shamans to knock on zip for sayin that* heheh, but truly what shaman constantly is checkin group status of health like a cleric, maybe goodie ones do but as far as i've seen evil ones don't they more busy with there other spells, since a clerics job in a zone is to heal the group a cleric gots to be watchin his group.......and hey i got res but aint many zone leaders for evils i mean there are a few but most go with one group and cant have 2 zones goin on at once, atleast i havent seen 2 evil zonin groups zonin 2 diffrent zones while i've been playin, more of a first come first serve thing for evils, and since they put that rule in about not havin 2 groups goto 1 zone because of group limit alot of high lvl peeps are missin out of zonin as a evil.......hey i dont mind zonin and not gettin EQ zonin is just plain fun, group limits just suck!

oh and about spectres i can still solo them with that awesome shrug you gave them Image you gotta give them an entirely new spell or make the room !flee to stop the zip! *spit*
but with 2 people its just not worth it, more of the changes you made to them just made it alot harder for a group to do them not a guy thats soloin them....
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Postby gordex » Mon Aug 20, 2001 7:55 pm

Twyl, fire plane IS !word.
Please read my posting http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000450.html

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Postby Tasan » Tue Aug 21, 2001 12:11 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gordex:
<B>Twyl, fire plane IS !word.
Please read my posting http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000450.html

Gordex - Gordex Travel Agency</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You saying I made up the log? It happened, explain it however you want.

Twyl
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Postby sok » Tue Aug 21, 2001 1:06 am

if they want to upgrade cleric i say go for it. but i think there are more important things to work on... bard, elementalist

i think gheal for shaman is good. cleric has enuf to cast w/o giving them another spell. also shaman would be invited less to group if they didnt' have. i think gods gave to them so they can be included. i think what's important to remember is if a class does not have this will they be included into group. as long as cleric has the most powerful single target heal spell out there, they dont have to worry.

zip, i understand evils usually only have one group. i would lead a group but if u only have 1 high lvl enchanter it makes it difficult to lead anything. maybe tk or dk w/ a shaman stoner. but enchanter are too few.

planeshift. i remember when quest for spell had to be done by gods. i got ress but no pshift. it hard to appreciate what you have until u dont have it. also but's a better way to get into a jot group then to cr your corpse from jot. but more importantly planeshift gives u freedom. u dont have to be dependant on another class to get around.

anyways i think most class upgrades are good, so if u decide to upgrade cleric i say go for it.
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Postby Treladian » Tue Aug 21, 2001 6:02 am

Gordex: Apparently FP is wordable now. That log was from 2 or so nights ago, yours is from earlier. And it's not hard to try it again if you don't believe us Image
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Postby Verarb » Tue Aug 21, 2001 12:52 pm

Pshift rocks! rar!

About that wording thing from Fire Plane, what people dont know is that there's a secret quest to upgrade word where anyplace is wordable, {go find it!} But! the room i worded from was flagged wordable (the semi saferoom), the rest of fp isnt, cept to us superworders. Go Shabay!
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Postby Tasan » Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:22 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Verarb:
<B>Pshift rocks! rar!

About that wording thing from Fire Plane, what people dont know is that there's a secret quest to upgrade word where anyplace is wordable, {go find it!} But! the room i worded from was flagged wordable (the semi saferoom), the rest of fp isnt, cept to us superworders. Go Shabay!</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hence why I don't play a cleric.

Twyl "Verarb utters a single word and disappears... Umm... help? Welcome to Sojourn" Twinshadow
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Postby Arenor » Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:24 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hamibugan Sinweaver:
<B>From the title of this

I see plenty of people grouped when I'm NOT grouped because there are too many ressers. I see another shaman getting taken zoning over another cleric because shamans have gheal.

Name one other class that gets heal, stone skin, a pet, gheal, invis, di, etc. etc.

Clerics aren't what I feel they could be. And 90% of that is because shamans are so "special".

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, this seems to be going from a "clerics need improving" to a "shamans need downgrading" post again. Image Needless to say, I'm all for the "clerics need improving" angle. I'm not the most experienced shaman out there Hami, but, honestly, my experience zoning can be resumed as follows: wait to cast gheal, gheal, repeat ad nauseum. Why would you bring a shaman along if he didn't gheal? Pet? Next to a mounted tank? Um, no. Damage? Next to an invoker? No way. Stone? Next to a 110 int gnome enchanter, don't make me laugh. Vit/heal? Next to a fhealing and 200 hps vitting cleric? I'd be growing old alone in GN. With the possible exception of ancestral shield, gheal is the only reason a limited size group would bring a shaman zoning, and it was downgraded last week. Honestly, in a group, the rest is just eye candy Hami.

(Ahem, now let us return to our regularly scheduled cleric ugragding episode already in progress... Image)

Not that I'm opposed to giving it to clerics in any way, do you think you would have time both gheal/fheal in the course of a fight? (I'm seriously asking that as a question, if any experienced cleric has an opinion, I'd be curious to know what they think. Image)

The one thing I would suggest for clerics is either make turn/control undead a skill, or make the spell more powerful as the cleric advances. Right now, undead fear invokers more than a level 50 priest devoted to his/her god, and that's just not right. Give them some kind of blind/feeb/damage effect that would truly reflect an agent of a god's effect on the undead. This would give clerics some fun stuff to do on undead/demonic mobs that would be in character for the class and (hopefully) not unbalance them against all the other mobs.

*waiting for the next downgrade*
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Postby Xebes » Wed Aug 22, 2001 9:38 pm

make most undead have high MR (if they don't already :P), and then let cleric spells ignore MR of undead (perhaps pally spells too). Adding this to a damage upgrade on the undead-killing spells would make undead fear clerics much more, w/o having to upgrade things quite as much.

Again, just my $0.02

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Postby rylan » Thu Aug 23, 2001 1:07 pm

Aruk: In response to your question about gheal, no, I don't see myself having time to gheal the group (and remem when needed) and be able to full heal to keep the tanks alive. In those nasty fights where we need gheals, I'm usually casting FH on the tanks 90% of the time.
So while I think it would be cool to have that spell, I wouldn't be able to do gheals and keep the tanks alive at the same time.

As for the other suggestiosn about undead, yes, I agree we the antiundead spells should be spankier. I've posted on that a few times before, and they did upgrade eradicate undead so its stronger than full harm, but its still nothing really all that special.
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Postby Kozzloz » Sat Aug 25, 2001 5:07 pm

For an upgrade for Clerics "IF" it does happen... Why don't you implement Turn Undead?
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Postby gordex » Sat Aug 25, 2001 11:51 pm

Perhaps I'll give it a try again. Image

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