downgrade ranger exp please

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izarek
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downgrade ranger exp please

Postby izarek » Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:10 pm

they level way too fast and easy. there's too many of em and theres no room for more. i cant land a group for the life of me. they don't contribute much to a group to justify the number of 40+ rangers that there are.

izzy

P.S. Don't turn this into a ranger flame thread. It's just a request for the staff and I don't really care what other ppl's opinions are, for once.
Sylvos
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Postby Sylvos » Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:26 am

It's the standard complaint I've heard from casters (which I agree with) that hitters in general get insane experience. I can only guess that it comes from the damage we do.

When xp'ing with a same level shaman, that shaman casting their spells. Some offense and some enchantment support, and I manage to depart the room before the killing blow lands, I still manage to either a: equal their apparent exp gain or b: exceed their apparent exp gain 80% of the time.

And to add my own thoughts to the possible 'flame rangers' theme that crops up, I am a ranger and have been one since 95. I'm not currently at a point where I consider myself 'zonable' by the standards generally accepted.(I'm lvl37) The only time I've ever worried about a res was when I piled up 4 corpses doing assorted foolish rangery things.

Our exp tables appear at least to be easy, and I'm not too sure about the fairness of it to other classes. I haven't played any other character much this wipe, so consider me relatively uninformed about everything but the ranger class, which I know exceptionally well.

-Sylvos Winteraven
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Postby Guest » Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:42 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by izarek:
<B>they level way too fast and easy. there's too many of em and theres no room for more. i cant land a group for the life of me. they don't contribute much to a group to justify the number of 40+ rangers that there are.

izzy

P.S. Don't turn this into a ranger flame thread. It's just a request for the staff and I don't really care what other ppl's opinions are, for once.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So are you asking for a downgrade to Rangers because you think there are too MANY? That means they are too easy and apparently fast to level? Any basis for this? I am not understanding your reasoning unless it is solely because you can't get into a group. Not wanting to flame you, but trying to figure out for what reason the staff would even consider this.

Erevan
izarek
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Postby izarek » Wed Aug 29, 2001 4:26 am

I understand the confusion. Wasn't a well thought out post. My reasoning is thus: I've played a ranger to high levels with alot less work than most playing other classes. Not my first ranger either. Then when i go play another class like a warrior, cleric, or mage, its much slower.

I think thats part of why theres so many of em.

Don't get me wrong, I love the class. Its my primary class and I'll never stop (unless you all wake up and bring monks back).

But it does take away from it all when theres alot of them and there end up being some sitting around WD carving bongs.

Add to this an undercurrent of viewing rangers as leeches cuz they level fast by soaking up dmg exp and not contributing otherwise to the group.

I think that the general impression of rangers is that theyre a greedy bunch. Well, arent we all. But, here's some honest feedback on the class that isnt aimed at gaining more power.

Make more sense?

Izzy / Raev

[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 08-29-2001).]

[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 08-29-2001).]
rylan
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Postby rylan » Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:36 pm

Uh oh.. I'm not getting into this one.

: grumbles as he gets 4 notches from last night's zone runs while the lvl 50 hitter in group got 8 notches

At least I finally got lvl 48 after a month. Now I have to not die for 3-4 weeks while I get enough xp for a buffer... bah


[This message has been edited by rylan (edited 08-29-2001).]
Jethrus
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Postby Jethrus » Wed Aug 29, 2001 9:29 pm

I have to agree with Erevan on this one. The number if rangers is not proportional to the exp table. Warriors have a fairly easy exp table, rogues have an easy exp table, and bards used to *I don't know for sure because I haven't played one in a few years*. I think the reason for the rangers is people like to do melee damage and rangers and rogues offer just that. If anything I think it would be a positive to the mud to slightly lessen caster exp tables because seeing the same ppl doing ship/tower/ms/elites doesn't really give those people any more mudding experience or ability, just tests to see how much free time they have to dedicate to mudding. But again, those are just my beliefs and I don't pretend to speak for the masses.
-Jethrus Monk of Yore
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Aug 29, 2001 9:44 pm

Rangers have a fairly easy exp table.. so do rogues and warriors. A 50 ranger is also considerably less powerful and less in-demand than say, a level 50 cleric. No top circle quest spells, no spells or skills able to stem the tide of an entire battle, nothing in particular unique to the class that every zone group needs.

If it took as long to level a ranger to 50 as it takes for an enchanter, nobody would play them at all.

- Ragorn
Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:34 am

Ranger leveling seems to be the same as warrior leveling. Tro, Daalgar, and other warriors I grouped with both would level about once every 5 hours at mid levels. Past that, I haven't bothered counting. The number of high level rangers is due to the fact that we tend to be heavily addicted players that have come to love the class and even if it took longer to level we still wouldn't go away. After all, most of us have already gone through two wipes. The lack of groups has really more to do with only 2 groups that zone often on the goodie side, both of which already have regular rangers and rogues. I'd prefer not to go much deeper into that subject on the bbs, but I can elaborate more on the mud. The hopelessly addicted treehuggers basically have outgrown the rest of the mud and now need for it to catch up.
rylan
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Postby rylan » Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:37 pm

nods. I have to disagree with high rangers not being in demand.. they account for most of the damage in the zoning groups I'm in. Slap a couple high lvl rangers with a rogue or two and you're all set, assuming you have enough tanking/bashing power :P

What we've actually had a lot of lately is loads of rangers and not enough warriors/bashing. So we kill stuff fast and hope it doesn't get too many area spells off.
Galorion
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Postby Galorion » Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:29 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">If it took as long to level a ranger to 50 as it takes for an enchanter, nobody would play them at all.</font>

If it took as long for anything to level to 50 as for an enchanter, no one would play them Image.
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:41 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galorion:
<B> If it took as long for anything to level to 50 as for an enchanter, no one would play them Image.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do everybody say that enchanters are hard to exp? We ALWAYS get groups, everybody wants an enchanter to exp or zone with. We even get exp bonuses to our damage exp.

/Jegzed
Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:46 pm

How many times do I need to say this?

Enchanter getting exp for DAMAGE is stupid.

Enchanters got a bone thrown to them. Plain and simple.

Enchanters are not damage dealers, and technically, shouldn't even have any offense. Certainly not nearly as much as they do have.

You can say til you're blue in the face(just like I can) that something is hard or easy. The simple fact is that is a personal opinion, someone will always find an end around to a given thing. The extra exp just doesn't make any sense. It's nice and all, but just doesn't click with the theme.
Dinggle
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Postby Dinggle » Thu Aug 30, 2001 3:26 pm

Jegzed, are you nuts?

Maybe you and ossis ALWAYS get groups, but the rest of us dont.

I was off work yesterday. All day i was on and all day all the evils did was zone. i went to your short sg hop, but that was it. and with all the evils zoning and questing there's not enough left for me to put together a ship group for xp.

i got level 36 4 weeks ago, i'm only 39 now and havent done more than an hour of xp in nearly a week, even though i play 5 hours a day!
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Aug 30, 2001 3:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dinggle:
<B>Jegzed, are you nuts?

Maybe you and ossis ALWAYS get groups, but the rest of.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You missed my point. Compared to an invoker/ rogue/ psionisict/ ranger, enchanters have it EASY. As an enchanter you can still expect to get occasional invites from people that don't even know you.

You can do exp without most classes, but an enchanter is almost vital for a highlevel exp group.

The sad fact that evils only have about 20ish high level people on at the same time has nothing to do about it.

/Jegzed
Galorion
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Postby Galorion » Thu Aug 30, 2001 4:52 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Why do everybody say that enchanters are hard to exp? We ALWAYS get groups, everybody wants an enchanter to exp or zone with. </font>

Those are 2 different things Image. Yes, it's easy to get a group for xping, but it's difficult to get decent xp progress in a group unless you're a drow elf who has low enough mem times to cast lots of offense while keeping the group stoned/hasted.

Basically, except for clerics, all classes level much faster than enchanters. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating to xp one.

Enchanters just really need to get enchantment xp.

[This message has been edited by Galorion (edited 08-30-2001).]
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Postby Mplor » Thu Aug 30, 2001 6:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galorion:
Basically, except for clerics, all classes level much faster than enchanters. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yesterday, I did 2 man buffalos with a 21 enchanter as my 23 invoker. Adjusting for the level difference, he was getting the same amount of exp I was. Possibly more. He said he got about half a level, while I got 15%-20% of a level. The mob was Are you mad? con.
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Aug 30, 2001 7:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B> Why do everybody say that enchanters are hard to exp? We ALWAYS get groups, everybody wants an enchanter to exp or zone with. We even get exp bonuses to our damage exp.

/Jegzed</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I base it on going on multiple-zone runs with Yarith and Arishae last wipe, and seeing myself notch 3-5 times more than them. Enchanters got a damage exp bonus this time around, but when I think of difficult levelling I still tend to think of enchanters over other classes.

The sheer difficulty of the exp table is compensated by the fact that they ARE necessary.

- Ragorn
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Postby Xebes » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:33 pm

Here's how to exp fast as an enchanter.

Haste when you feel like it, keep the tank stoned, and cone/pris the holy hell out of whatever you're fighting.

Yes, you're basically playing the class as a VERY wimpy invoker w/ stoneskin/hastes, but that's about the only way to take the edge off the exp table.

Anyways, hitters still exp too damn fast. But if you play a caster for just exping as fast as you can and screw the rest of the group, you can just about keep up. (Not that that is the preferred way of doing things, btw.)


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Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Fri Aug 31, 2001 11:59 pm

Rylan: Actually, I think that most of our damage has been coming from the 2 rangers, rogue, and that exp stealing bastidge known as Verarb Image that we normally have. Well, at least on a damage from one person ratio. 4 tanks together do a lot of damage too. Not as much as 4 rangers or rogues, but still a lot, especially since we normally have a pali or anti as one of those tanks (I can come up with more precise ratios later if you REALLY want to know. I'm not quite that bored enough to figure it out right now).

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