Ebony Longsword vs. GCD

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Teyaha
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Ebony Longsword vs. GCD

Postby Teyaha » Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:10 pm

Well lets look at these two items:

Ebony Longsword
Id's as: 2d7 +3+3 procs torment (blind, random poison)
is actually: 2d7 +2+1 same proc

Glowing Crimson Dagger
id's as: 3d5 +3+3 crimson strike proc
is: 3d5 +3+3


so i think we have a bit of a problem here considering how much more difficult it is to get a hold of the ebony ls.

so let's examine them closely

Dice dam: ebony 2-14, GCD 3-15
Modifier: +2+1, +3+3
Proc: Blind,pois, blind+fumble+stumble+ray
goes through globe: ebony - no gcd - dunno, but prob not

i personally think the ebony should be as it id's, 2d7 +3+3. i've gone whole fights with hit not proccing once, but the gcd always procs at least once per fight and this with same skills in piercing and slashing.


what everyone else think?
Zrax
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Postby Zrax » Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:40 pm

Should call the post any non rogue only 1h weapon vs Gcd, that dagger is way too overpowered compared to every other warriorable one handed weapon.
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Postby Kiloppile » Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:54 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Teyaha:
<B>Well lets look at these two items:

Ebony Longsword
Id's as: 2d7 +3+3 procs torment (blind, random poison)
is actually: 2d7 +2+1 same proc

Glowing Crimson Dagger
id's as: 3d5 +3+3 crimson strike proc
is: 3d5 +3+3


so i think we have a bit of a problem here considering how much more difficult it is to get a hold of the ebony ls.

so let's examine them closely

Dice dam: ebony 2-14, GCD 3-15
Modifier: +2+1, +3+3
Proc: Blind,pois, blind+fumble+stumble+ray
goes through globe: ebony - no gcd - dunno, but prob not

i personally think the ebony should be as it id's, 2d7 +3+3. i've gone whole fights with hit not proccing once, but the gcd always procs at least once per fight and this with same skills in piercing and slashing.


what everyone else think?</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Saying blind for both of them is ludicrously exaggerating the situation. The blind proc on the longsword seems to work often, and also goes off about 20 times as often.

The proc on the GCD, on the other hand, seems to work very rarely, even when it does go off. And the blind proc is almost non-existant.



[This message has been edited by Kiloppile (edited 09-30-2001).]
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 01, 2001 1:19 am

try wielding both the gcd and the ebony. I say that because no way you can compare the two weapons. You dont wield ebony to do dam. You wield either ds or gcd or one of those harder to get weapons.

Sure GCD procs often. mostly stat boost (str dex or agi). It procs ray once in a while and sticks about 50%. It procs blind even more rarely, and sticks about 25%.

Ebony always sticks the blind, it procs pretty often. You can count on ebony blind. No one wields gcd in hopes of blinding a mob. Its an apples to oranges comparison. I've always thought ebony should have better dice, it would be a sweet weapon then in my opinion. Still most high levels that have one wield it so thats a pretty strong statement for the weapon.

GCD hits 1 point average harder than ebony plus the difference in damroll. Id trade the crimson strike proc for any nearly any dam proc or ebonys proc any day. Other than hitting pretty hard, its just a neat weapon.

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 09-30-2001).]
Zrax
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Postby Zrax » Mon Oct 01, 2001 3:09 am

Kiryan,

in attempting to defend the GCD you have managed to make it sound even more super powered than i ever could have, thank you.
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Oct 01, 2001 3:36 am

help stumble
help fumble
help ray


that's some pretty powerful stuff already.

i'm dualing ebony and gcd when i can. they proc about the same rate.

also compare difficulties in obtaining the items. i dont want gcd downgraded of course, but wold like to see ebony made +3+3 from it's +2+1. i think that would even it out a bit.
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Postby Laxlez » Mon Oct 01, 2001 4:12 am

Okay.. so the GCD procs at most once in 20 attacks..
When it procs, it actually does something about 1/3 of the time..
When it does do something, it's stat drain ONLY about 95% of the time..
When it does blind/stumble/fumble/ray, it happens maybe 5% of the time with ray being 3%, the others being 1%..

So we have ray at most .1% of attacks.. the others about .03% of attacks..

So.. what do you end up with? Ray which works occasionally.. the others are extreme rarities.. So no one wields this weapon with the expectation that they will get ray/blind/stumble/fumble..

If you get enough attacks per battle, you probably have a 50/50 chance of getting either strength, agility or dex.. which for most people mean nothing because we're already at 100 for all three stats..

So what is this weapon? 3d5 +3 +3 that in very rare instances will notch your agi/dex/str sometimes and looks flashy.. Is it a damned fine weapon? Yes.. in actual practice does it do all the amazing things people make it out to do? No.. The proc's primary value is that it looks cool..

-Laxlez
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Mon Oct 01, 2001 4:29 am

Laxlez it actually procs a little less. With my stat collection seems to be like 1/23 or so. Get a mob hexed or cursed and the procs land alot. The crimson strike not only attempts to blind, but it procs damage also.

GCD in comparisson to another rogue weapon is not as good. GCD in comparrison to warrior weapons is better.

I consitantly wield GCD over ebony all the time as my 48th level warrior. I guess theres a reason.
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Oct 01, 2001 4:49 am

a hasted rogue dualing gcd's is spammy...ungodly spammy!

it procs a lot in the hands of a 50 rogue!
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Postby izarek » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:43 am

Bleh, I'm sick of ppl saying the GCD is overpowered.

1. Blind almost never procs, much less hit. I've had for a couple weeks and have never notice that proc, ever.

2. Ray, stumble, etc. These proc more frequently. However, they usually dont take.

3. You get a stat boost of 4 normal points. But, since most ppl with a GCD are fairly well maxed stat wise, theres no gain.


Whats the reason I use a GCD? Its a +3+3 magic offhander.

The ebony blind proc is what really rocks here. It lands alot more. Although I agree the sword should have better hit/dmg.

Izzy
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Mon Oct 01, 2001 10:55 am

I wielded GCD from levels 30-37. GCD has neat procs and only the 4 pt stat boosts happen often. Get a weapon that procs dam or blind and you will notice a huge difference between the two.

Dont discount the power of blind. It is extremely powerful. It drastically reduces your enemies melee skills and keeps them from makign targeted skills such as bash, switch, casting targetted spells, ect. It also makes you tank a lot better.

Ebony hits about 3 pts less per hit than the GCD if the dam roll is really 1 on the ebony. I'd take the blind proc on ebony over the 3 pts of damage any day. I'd take the dam proc on engulfed, fiery mace, flamberge, or dancing shadows over those 3 pts of damage too. GCDs only procs the str/agi/dex bonus every fight (usually 4 or 5 procs though you can only suck so many points from the mob). THe ray and blind RARELY happen like once every 5 fights. One of them sticks about every 15 fights. How is that overpowered versus the ebony that blinds every time it procs and procs nearly every fight?

On damage, I wielded gcd from 30-37. It hits a little harder than the common weapons (2d6 or 7 2/2), but nothing compared to a dam procing weapon like engulfed or dancing shadows. I noticed the difference in dam within the first hour I had a real weapon. I dont even miss my GCD after i pitched it into water. I think that should say something. Consequently, a common weapon 2d7 2/2 hits for average 10 pts per round vs GCDs 12. I think thats fair considering any newbie can get a 2d7 enchanted by picking one off the ground and asking an enchanter.

The real discussion should be why does ebony have such shitty dice? If the answer is the blind proc is soo powerful, then that should be the end of this thread. Compared to a newbie weapon gcd is better. compared to ebony it hits harder but for all intensive purposes doesnt blind.
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Postby Sarell » Mon Oct 01, 2001 1:57 pm

On a side note...

I never did quite understand why with the quip downgrades, why actualy weapon bonuses were chopped. Seems a bit odd the 90%+ of your damage/hit comes from the rings/boots/belt etc you wearing...
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Mon Oct 01, 2001 8:46 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
Dont discount the power of blind. It is extremely powerful. It drastically reduces your enemies melee skills and keeps them from makign targeted skills such as bash, switch, casting targetted spells, ect. It also makes you tank a lot better. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, you mean like ray, reduces the mob critting you, fumble reduces the mobs chance to hit you, and stumble that reduces the mobs ac. I don't know those are pretty useless for making a tank, and or hitter better.
<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
GCDs only procs the str/agi/dex bonus every fight (usually 4 or 5 procs though you can only suck so many points from the mob). THe ray and blind RARELY happen like once every 5 fights. One of them sticks about every 15 fights. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is total bunk. My GCD procs in excess to 2 times every fight, I think ive gotten it to proc 15 times in one combat. If the mob is hexed or cursed I stick every fight, if not it averages out i stick 2 every 3 fights. Plus GCD procs damage on crits, not just blind. Its hit/dam is better and it has better dice. (P.s. It can proc blind too)

I am not saying GCD should be downgraded, but I'd like to see the ebony as 2d8 3/2, 2/3, 3/3.
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Postby Kiloppile » Tue Oct 02, 2001 12:50 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>I wielded GCD from levels 30-37. GCD has neat procs and only the 4 pt stat boosts happen often. Get a weapon that procs dam or blind and you will notice a huge difference between the two.

Dont discount the power of blind. It is extremely powerful. It drastically reduces your enemies melee skills and keeps them from makign targeted skills such as bash, switch, casting targetted spells, ect. It also makes you tank a lot better.

Ebony hits about 3 pts less per hit than the GCD if the dam roll is really 1 on the ebony. I'd take the blind proc on ebony over the 3 pts of damage any day. I'd take the dam proc on engulfed, fiery mace, flamberge, or dancing shadows over those 3 pts of damage too. GCDs only procs the str/agi/dex bonus every fight (usually 4 or 5 procs though you can only suck so many points from the mob). THe ray and blind RARELY happen like once every 5 fights. One of them sticks about every 15 fights. How is that overpowered versus the ebony that blinds every time it procs and procs nearly every fight?

On damage, I wielded gcd from 30-37. It hits a little harder than the common weapons (2d6 or 7 2/2), but nothing compared to a dam procing weapon like engulfed or dancing shadows. I noticed the difference in dam within the first hour I had a real weapon. I dont even miss my GCD after i pitched it into water. I think that should say something. Consequently, a common weapon 2d7 2/2 hits for average 10 pts per round vs GCDs 12. I think thats fair considering any newbie can get a 2d7 enchanted by picking one off the ground and asking an enchanter.

The real discussion should be why does ebony have such shitty dice? If the answer is the blind proc is soo powerful, then that should be the end of this thread. Compared to a newbie weapon gcd is better. compared to ebony it hits harder but for all intensive purposes doesnt blind.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yer confused. If you gain strength from the proc, that means the mob was rayed. If the ray doesn't stick or it's already rayed it won't add to your strength.

It's the same for the other 2 stats. However, those don't stick on high-level mobs at all, really. Very rarely, anyway.



[This message has been edited by Kiloppile (edited 10-01-2001).]
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Tue Oct 02, 2001 3:44 am

I could be wrong, but I occasionally saw a definite and traditional ray of enfeeblement message sometimes but not all. I think that it has a ray effect that is different than when you proc and get stat boosts.
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Postby Kegor » Tue Oct 02, 2001 6:13 am

Talk Cyric into uprading ebony to 2d8 2/3 and lets hear the end of this lame topic.

-Jaznolg
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:24 pm

Ok folks, i have both of these and have been doing some 'tests' the passed few days on the same mobs. here's what i've found.

on these mobs with no procs at all, -100 ac, 23/20 hit/dam (mob is perfect match btw) i'm nearly killed.

same with ebony blind proc: mob can hardly touch me, but can get lucky

with gcd ray only proc: not as effective as blind, but fight is easier

with gcd stumble proc: almost as effective as blind

with gcd fumble proc: not a huge difference

with gcd blind proc: same as ebony

with gcd stumble and fumble: as effective as ebony blind proc

with gcd ray and stumble: extremely effective

with gcd ray, sumble and fumble: mob is a little girl


up the ebony's damage please. i get the gcd to proc more often than the ebony blind by about 30%. this with identical skills in piercing and 1hslashing.


thanks Image
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Postby cherzra » Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:33 pm

Can we all shut the F up before we get another downgrade down our throat? Or maybe you all want to end up with the best thing in the game being bitchin' ass kickin' 2d4 +1 +1 weapons? THANK YOU. Ebony blinds every single fight, GCD blinds once in every 20 fights. If you think GCD is better, then bloody use one and shut up. Stupid topic.
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:57 pm

if it was to be downgraded, they would have done that by now

and gcd is as effective as ebony without it's own blind proc going off

i'm simply comparing reward vs. risk cherzra. there are two solutions to the problem that seem fair. either upgrade the ebony a tad, or make the crimson dagger quest a lot harder. or simply make the Lord E fight a LOT harder
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Postby cherzra » Wed Oct 03, 2001 5:22 pm

All hard to get weapons need an upgrade, there is no reason why the only +3 +3 stuff should be the 2d9 valkyrie sword and the 3d5 crimson dagger. Weapons like the rippling longsword are +1 +2 now, which is a total JOKE, this is a rareload on a DRAGON and it has less hit and dam than the first the best sword enchanted by a lvl 21 enchanter. I really don't understand why the hard-to-get pinnacles of 'status symbols' (i.e. weapons) for hitter types have to be so crappy, but see my other thread for that Image

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