Evil Population

[Dezzex]

I know it's not just me who's noticed this but... the numbers have been really down lately.

Where is everyone?

[Kegor]

Yeah.. it does seem kinda slow lately. I know a lot of people are busy with RL.. and a few are leveling alts. But I'm sure things will pick up again sooner or later..

-Jaznolg

[Galok Icewolf]

Oh gawd i hope so... Im so bored :P

[Xyd]

http://www.sojourn3.org/mrtg/soj3-online.html

Not good. Nitania is right -- we have to recruit some peeps for this place...

.xyd

[kiryan]

we lost about 2-3 korean players 3 or 4 weeks ago (or they started different chars i dont know they were suddenly gone). I think they thought it was too hard, and sucky how people with previous knowledge and eq zoomed past them in levels. my point is maybe we need to work on retention in addition to recruiting.

More than gifts, though those are good, is that we need to spend more time talking and associating with new players. They need to be taught a lot of stuff.

Short rants:

last couple days Ive spent more than 24 hours practicing shieldpunch (rescue was already in 70s). Got one tell to go do exp in gloom. One tell to help out with a quest. One tell of someone who wanted to practice rescue. Its peak hours right now and ive been on for 4 hours not a single tell. Suppose I could do more for myself, but half the time i ask i dont get a response, other half the group is full. when i think about organizing something no clerics or enchanters (grumble i shoulda made a core class)

On handouts, higher level players need to stop trying to rip the newbies off. I had several people try offer me trades that I was pretty sure were very very unfair to me, that made me sick. Sure, maybe the net effect of the eq they were offering me might be better, but trading someone a bone shield for a batskull ring or a purple earthstone is obviously whack or two shiny goldens for two batskull rings. And its obvious too, out of the blue you get a few tells in short succession from someone 20 levels higher than you asking for a trade? that's really slimy. you dont even have to be experienced to know that your getting the short end of the stick.

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 10-06-2001).]

[kiryan]

BTW i think the chat channels i suggested would go a long way to improving in game experience and communication for everyone, especially for new players. (I suppose nhc is pretty good for this aspect too)

[Ragorn]

Been some new goodies zooming through levels who are probably ex-evils.

- Ragorn

[cherzra]

WHO EVIL SORT

Listing of the Mortals!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[50 War] Cherzra Eat Slime (Troll)
[50 Lic] Todrael Azz'miala (Drow Elf)
[45 Rog] Amutadkaw Bloodknave (Duergar)
[43 War] Bodag (Ogre)
[41 Ill] Vassyr (Yuan-Ti)
[41 Sha] Oggog (Ogre)
[38 Psi] Xserreellex (Illithid)
[35 Nec] Opaz (Drow Elf)
[25 War] Ghrazz (Ogre)
[22 Psi] Ralkezzia (Illithid)
[22 Enc] Kissir (Yuan-Ti)
[18 Enc] Verzul (Drow Elf)
[10 Rog] Zarez (Drow Elf) (RP)
[10 War] Ugrag (Troll)

There are 14 mortal(s) on.


WHO GOOD SORT

[50 Cle] Dornax (Dwarf)
[50 Dru] Lilithelle (Grey Elf)
[50 Rog] Nitania Silent Blade - Mistress of Shadows (Human) (RP)
[50 Ran] Belleshel (Grey Elf)
[49 Cle] Rylan Malas (Human)
[49 Enc] Omrec Daekan (Human)
[47 Con] Lyt (Human)
[47 Dru] Fendoren (Human)
[46 Ill] Saerian Rubicyn (Human) (RP)
[45 Enc] Buppinoble (Gnome)
[45 Dru] Zouve Telcontar (Half-Elf)
[45 War] Krabat (Dwarf)
[45 Pal] Selah (Human)
[45 Enc] Ster (Human) (AFK)
[44 Cle] Glahir Nightglade (Grey Elf)
[43 Cle] Rujen Brightforge (Dwarf)
[43 Ran] Sylvos Winteraven (Half-Elf)
[42 Rog] Linel (Halfling)
[42 Pal] Ensis (Human)
[42 Con] Hatan (Human)
[42 Cle] Salen (Grey Elf)
[41 Enc] Baratos Timmult (Human) (RP)
[40 Sha] Toplack Frostbear (Barbarian)
[40 Enc] Isma (Human)
[40 Dru] Lokar (Half-Elf)
[40 Enc] Arishae Alastrarra (Grey Elf)
[40 War] Hania (Barbarian)
[39 Enc] Pimblie (Gnome)
[39 Sha] Fura (Barbarian)
[38 Enc] Tilsen (Gnome)
[37 Ill] Rivan Arebus (Human)
[36 Pal] Zaryn (Human) (RP)

That's just the top - almost 2 pages of level 40+ people


Pathetic. All I do is sit around all day, and that won't be for much longer if it's like this.


Cherzra shouts leader looking for group to do zones... will work for zone group

[Salen]

I know of 4 evils who no longer play down below because of the way they were treated in groups. They are not n00b's either. They go back to the days of 'zerkers and Monks at least. All of whom have been 48+ either in SJ1 or SJ2. Perhaps the treatment of players has something to do with the number of players, perhaps not. Might be a place to start. Also, are there an anon's hiding in those numbers?
Heh sorry see a 5th ex-evil in our list of 40+.

[Tanras]

I dont see a problem here, there are supposed to be less evils. Im actually surprised that this is the case, but it is how it should be.

Tanras

[Grintor]

I'm with cherzra on this one.

I know of quite a few folks who have quit the evil side, or just quit altogether, because of how they were treated by the other evils.


why is this so bad you may ask. i mean same shit happens on goodie side too right?

well the main problem is that if someone acts like a tool towards you on the goodie side, you just find some other goodies to group with. dont really have that luxury on the evil side. the clerics cant heal fer crap, there are only three enchanters now that two have left, two or three invokers, a few necros and a lot of warriors and rogues.

when one of the main leaders complains of sitting down doing nothing (which i see someone posted about this problem several times over the passed few months) i think it time to reevaluate the situation.

Here's what i see as a veteran of the game:

Handout system - this was bad for the evils. There are people running around having just spent their first 5 months on the game that look spankier than folks who put in years on toril. because of this they not only lost interest quick but some developed some pretty lofty attitudes. This has also sparked a small twinge of jealousy among the older players.

Lack of commitement - dont commit to xp or zone if you plan to log in 30 minutes. Also dont leave a newly formed group to join another group if you are going to leave your group hanging. that's really bad form and was frowned upon back in the toril days. i know one old school player who stopped playing regularly just because of this.


Ignorance - this is probably not the best word, it's kind of harsh. this also regards the newer players who have had everything handed to them. it's an attitude that comes with achieving so much so soon. they feel the game is too easy. my question to these folks is that if you hadnt had folks like cherzra and edak and krolb and jegzed taking you by the hand so early on it would not have been so easy for you. far too many assume that because they've had an easy time getting multiple sets of eq that it's easy for everyone. this is never the case.


anyway just my two cents. Grintor the barb (instead of the current troll version) may live yet again (hey tro you dont still hate me right bro?)

this may sound like i'm jealous, but this is far from the case. i'm a 36 troll warrior with ebony ls and elven plate and some other spiffy gear. heck as grintor the barb i did CC tons of times and never owned an ebony ls. i had a twilight near the end of toril, but never ever had a ebony. I did CC about 30 times. This kinda bothered me a bit back then and even now, and i'm stoked i have one finally. I'm a happy war, even though some eq slots are severely lacking. it just kinda bothered me seeing folks complain the game is too easy when none of them had to do jot 20 times before they saw even one piece of gear they could use and wanted.

[This message has been edited by Grintor (edited 10-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Grintor (edited 10-08-2001).]

[ShaylaRose]

I have had some success as a "n00b" on the good side without nearly as much resentment as what Grintor seems to indicate here. In fact, I have found people to be very friendly and the play to be quite enjoyable. It seems to me that what the evil side is and wants to be is for only experienced players willing to sacrifice much more time to get towards the higher reaches. And we are obviously not talking experienced like me (only 2 months here, though 44th level enchantress), but people who are seriously experienced through years of play and discovery.

I get the twinge, now and then, to return to newbie roots. Play something completely different! If I really want to escape into a world new to me, evil seems like the way to go. Yet, I did the 6 hours play just to hit level 2, 2+ hours just to kill 1 mob. Deaths before even 1 notch. Etc. Honestly not sure I want even worse just for being evil. I am not suggesting that there's anything wrong with that, in fact it might be quite preferable to have a niche for the truly experienced of Sojourn to have to their own. I certainly won't mind be excluded

Still! I suppose I will try to see if being evil is fun and whether soon enough anyway! If only to satisfy some curiosity, even if it ends up being beyond my meager skills

Hugs!
Shayla
- Aedyra the Elven Enchantress

[ShaylaRose]

Okay, so I bit the bullet and gave evil a try. Two hours of play

Got to 28% XPs because I had some other newbie to group with, a level 1 evil. They died in newbie zone, though, then I died after that trying to see if I could kill anything on my own (lvl 2 mobs). Boom! Dead fast. Back to 22% XPs.

After that, tried to fight some level 1, perfect match mobs. Killed 2, got splatted by 1. Got no notches on the 2 kills, though, so rather ineffective. Death, of course, is still lost XP even at level 1.

Took some of the coppers I found and tried to do some shopping in home town, but there was nothing I could get

Finally, decided that if I couldn't fight classless level 1 mobs and be fairly confident of victory, I should probably wait til I can group with another evil newbie in the newbie zone.

At any rate, it certainly seems rather hard now. I wonder how many people try to come, play for 2 hours and die, getting no where, and give up. Perhaps for evils that is how it should be though

Anyhoo! That was my experiences for the night. Probably should have continued to level my enchantress, but I wanted a nice break from the norm If I give evil some more effort, will let you know how it goes

Hugs!
Shayla
- Aedyra the Elven Enchantress

[Mishre]

yeah.. i have a level 5 invoker drow(was badanna, now chianna).. only way i got it that high is a troll warrior came by and pleveled me for a bit.. .. i just prefer the goodie side i guess.. mostly because that is what my family and friends play

[cherzra]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tanras:
<B>I dont see a problem here, there are supposed to be less evils. Im actually surprised that this is the case, but it is how it should be.

Tanras</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Suuuuuure... that's how it should be. Max 2 zoneable evils on at all times huh? That's more than enough to do tf or brass, and it's overkill for jot and SG which are zones 1 evil can do. 2 evils should never be bored for days on end because they can easily do any zones in the game, I guess they must suck!

Besides, evils are supposed to be bored, they have no right to zone or have fun, do they?

[Nilan]

I love all my evil friends Most fun, with the best bunch of people I had in last 5 years

Adventures are lotta fun - I like stabbin people.

Got lotta respect for all my friends here.

Nilan (aka Stabby)

ShadowStalker - Treachery's Poisoned Blade

[Xyd]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Salen:
<B>I know of 4 evils who no longer play down below because of the way they were treated in groups. They are not n00b's either. They go back to the days of 'zerkers and Monks at least. All of whom have been 48+ either in SJ1 or SJ2. Perhaps the treatment of players has something to do with the number of players, perhaps not. Might be a place to start. Also, are there an anon's hiding in those numbers?
Heh sorry see a 5th ex-evil in our list of 40+.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sal, this exact issue caused me to take a couple weeks off from Soj but I returned. I still play my evil but last night was my first invite to a group in 3 weeks. Yes, this phenomenon still exists. There appears to be a core group of evils that must be RL friends and they zone on their own. (Xyd opinion, not based on any fact.)

Also, I don't know who's in your count but I see a few goodies on the list that used to play evil and now do not. Perhaps they will speak up? *coughJMcough* *coughAOcough* *coughSMcough*

.xyd

[Zrax]

You say 'Sing for me Dezzex'.
Dezzex nods.
Dezzex sings
'Where have all the evils gone?
Long time passing.
Where have all the evils gone?
Long time ago.
Where have all the evils gone?
The goods have picked them ev'ry one.
Oh, when will you ever learn?
Oh, when will you ever learn?'

[ShaylaRose]

Mishre, I find it truly ironic that there is this theme on the evil side that giving away even basic items or leveling newbies creates a problem where "n00b"s are suddenly groupable and ruin the game for the veterans of the game while at the same time they say there aren't enough people to group with

Consider me Two months ago, I started playing Sojourn 3. After a rough time of no kills anywhere, Lilithelle (grey elven druid) gave me a set of basic items (kind of stuff that level 20-30 characters could easily get on their own). I started succeeding on my own (the advice from her and others on where to kill was invaluable, too) to the point where I could solo ever since. Eventually, I meet more people, have a little group of friends and start to progress nicely. For the first 25 levels, I almost always lead my own groups or soloed. Very Enjoyable. Now, I have some modest successes and considered to be a valuable group mate by even some of the "factions" types. I have level 44 enchantress, 22 cleric, 14 conjie, 5 paly. Learning more about the game when I can, and enjoying my visits here.

Now, lets say its two months later with no help? Assuming I continued, met a few other true newbies, had some modest successes, I would probably be level 12 now? Not off Evermeet, certainly. Would know much less about the mud than I do with the help and friends, that's a certainty, too.

All of which makes me wonder. How is it that people who struggle, die, never make it out of their hometown area and generally find life miserable become better mudders?

It may be my "n00b-ness" coming through, but if you ask me (and I know you didn't! ), until the mud becomes more newbie friendly, if you really want to increase the numbers of evils, embrace those who give it a shot, don't "weed out the week." Of course, its seems to be more prevalent to have new evil players end up being ungrateful, unacceptable, or uninterested in the end (based on all sorts of previous posts on various threads), so maybe it is just better to leave it as is.

-shrugging-
Hugs!
Shayla
- Aedyra the Elven Enchantress

[Rokub]

I know of quite a few folks who have quit the evil side, or just quit altogether, because of how they were treated by the other evils.

Treated? Well goodies or evils all are treated well or harshly get over it. and play on.


Here's what i see as a veteran of the game:

Handout system - this was bad for the evils. There are people running around having just spent their first 5 months on the game that look spankier than folks who put in years on toril. because of this they not only lost interest quick but some developed some pretty lofty attitudes. This has also sparked a small twinge of jealousy among the older players.


Handout system has nothing to do with being bad, thaz a cock of .... All the evils are well equiped that I know of. If you been here since day one of PWIPE and your lvl 40+ as a evil you are highly equiped and have zoned a ton. That is the reason all of us have equipment. Sorry if you can't play this game 5 yrs ago when toril was around! Handouts or dice we all are equiped awesomely and I thank every evil leader who has lead. I luv hands out. It works much better then gay diceing. You will get the item you need eventually just keep waiting. If your a older player then you should actually be GOOD at this game by now. I don't see how u can say people from toril are getting upset...

Lack of commitement - dont commit to xp or zone if you plan to log in 30 minutes. Also dont leave a newly formed group to join another group if you are going to leave your group hanging. that's really bad form and was frowned upon back in the toril days. i know one old school player who stopped playing regularly just because of this.

Look people sometimes do join and then leave quickly. I at least as others try to give people a time constraint. Or at least say sorry I gotta go help so and so do this.

Ignorance - this is probably not the best word, it's kind of harsh. this also regards the newer players who have had everything handed to them. it's an attitude that comes with achieving so much so soon. they feel the game is too easy. my question to these folks is that if you hadnt had folks like cherzra and edak and krolb and jegzed taking you by the hand so early on it would not have been so easy for you. far too many assume that because they've had an easy time getting multiple sets of eq that it's easy for everyone. this is never the case.

I swear tons of newbie evils have been given everything and their mama. We have lots of equipment left over so its spread to the newbies most of the time. I remember a troll warrior whined for days for dk vault eq when he was small u know what one day we did vault and we didn't really need the eq so he got it. Us around lvl 50 have been there done that. Thaz the easy part. Gets tiring after awhile. Some people just make alt's and keep playing.

Like u said, you are a lvl 36 troll warrior? You have a ebony longsword, I don't believe u should be complaining, us evils hookup who we can. If your not being hooked up Sit around 24/7 and level yourself. Eventually when your 30+ u will get into good xp groups! :P and 40+ zoneing time! I know we even take high 30's characters with us when we lack people.

Rokub, Orc Shaman of the Evils

[Mister Furious]

When I was a goodie, all I did was stand at the WD fountain with a sign that said "Will kill for food". As soon as I went to the dark side, I got free equipment, power leveled, free buffs, groups, ect., ect. I played both goods and evils on Sojourn 2 and I always found the evils to be generally much friendlier and helpful. The only advantage to being a goodie is you have easier access to zones and equipment. If there were more evils then that wouldn't even be a consideration. I'm surprised that there aren't more evils than goods since the evil races are stronger and have more innates. The only real bitch is a lot of the races can't see in daylight. And, it's damn fun being evil. (:<

[Mister Furious]

Blimey! This was at 4:15 p.m.

<> wh evil s
Listing of the Staff
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
<None>

There are 0 visible staff member(s) on.

Listing of the Mortals!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[50 War] Cherzra Eat Slime (Troll)
[27 Con] Tasser (Yuan-Ti)
[22 War] Ssorcasus (Yuan-Ti) (RP)
[20 Enc] Tizen (Drow Elf)
[17 Rog] Xadak (Drow Elf)
[16 Inv] Zidhez (Drow Elf)
[13 War] Glaman (Troll)
[ 1 Sha] Uggrra (Ogre)

There are 8 mortal(s) on.

Total visible players: 8.
Record number of players on this boot: 89.

Come to the Dark Side, people! You know you want to! Feel the power!

[cherzra]

Yeah! I just did jot and crypts by myself. I'll be heading off to SG right after I finish this last mob here in CC now.

Cherzra "my only innate is max 10 evils on"

[ShaylaRose]

Well, you might be right about the past Mister Furious, I honestly wouldn't know being new and tend to believe you based on previous threads. However, if you read the threads since August, when I joined, you'd be surprised to find that there is a very strong sentiment on the evil side (or at least a vocal sect) that believes that helping out newbies, power leveling, or giving out equipment is considered detrimental to the dark side.

What I think evils are hunting for is that the better, experienced "Goodie" players come over the evil side. Hence, while I might be unwelcome as a "n00b", someone like Rolart or Rylan would be very well embraced

Can't blame them, really!

Hugs!
Shayla
- Aedyra the Elven Enchantress

[cherzra]

Actually it doesn't matter how experienced you are... as long as you are willing to learn. Heck Zipalodok and Jaznolg are new here this wipe, Todrael hasn't played here since like 4 years ago, I can probably list a dozen people who would be considered 'n00bs' but all that matters is how they play now.

The problem is people stopped playing and nobody replaced them. Some people on the goodie side probably stopped playing too, but there are enought eft to do things with. Newbie evils don't have anyone to group with so quit or decide to go goodie where they can get a group easier, which is why the who list looks like it does above.

[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 10-09-2001).]

[sok]

something i learned after my bad brass trip.
some folks are loyal some folks are. some folks are eager to join a zoning group and some are only willing to join under right circumstances. b4 i use to care alot about having the right people for a zoning group. now if people dont want to join i dont beg. i'm okay w/ it, i fine that having folks who are eager to join is less stressful on me. they are sorry that they made a mistake. zardox in ic was kinda funny. i had numerious ic group go flawless and had to deal w/ whining. this particular trip wasn't flawless but everyone seem to be in good spirits and didn't give me hell. i appreciate that, and thanks. llaadra (mispelled) gave up a slot for another person to join. i appreciate that and will remember u for next group. semat alway ask if there is room in group for him, and log on w/ zeal when there is. i didn't have to beg him to join group. amazing. zazyg, ossis, and the rest thanks for helping w/ the quests. i hate them but i appreciate your help. anyways i dont really know where i'm going but i know that eagerness by newbie players is refreshing change from well equip'd better experience folks i have to take hell/beg to join for zoing. my 2 cent. ps. i know there are lots of folks on evil side that will follow me to hell, targsk, xxas, ossis, yssilk, caz, ssryth, and more but i would be typing a long time. in general there are lots of good people out there more than bad folks. sorry for bad grammer and punctuation but try to get the meaning.

[sok]

U know i reread my post and heck i manage to confuse myself. english is my 2nd language is my excuse.

[kiryan]

yea but you speak your first language half as well as english!

[Grintor]

*Treated? Well goodies or evils all are treated well or harshly get over it. and play on.*

Read the next few lines of the original post. no shit sherlock yeah i know that it happens on both sides, but on the goodie side if that happens you just tell em to fuck off and find someone else to play with.
As cherzra himself ahs posted repeatedly about on this very thread there are NOT ENOUGH EVILS...how else it need to be spelled out to you?

*Handout system has nothing to do with being bad, thaz a cock of .... All the evils are well equiped that I know of. If you been here since day one of PWIPE and your lvl 40+ as a evil you are highly equiped and have zoned a ton. *

I've been here since alpha, playing chars that you dont konw. one of which is already over 40 before i decided to resurrect grintor, a char i havent played in 4 years.

*That is the reason all of us have equipment. Sorry if you can't play this game 5 yrs ago when toril was around!*

er what does that mean? *confused*

*Handouts or dice we all are equiped awesomely and I thank every evil leader who has lead. I luv hands out. It works much better then gay diceing. You will get the item you need eventually just keep waiting. If your a older player then you should actually be GOOD at this game by now. I don't see how u can say people from toril are getting upset... *

it's got nothing to do with being GOOD. being GOOD or BAD is what determines if anyone takes you, which is a related but seperate topic. YOU didnt have to do IC 40 times before you saw your first nebbie, did you? some of us did. YOU CAN NOT DENY THE FACT that the handout system and how few evils were zoning daily early on made the game boring to them faster than doing bidding from day one. Where's fazzir? where's riva? there are a lot of evils who were around from day one of pwipe who are just gone. they may have different reasons, but they quit a long time ago yes? i remember they were rather WELL equipped. and i'm not upset, feeling slightly jealous that someone who's only been on the game 5 months looks better than a char you put in nearly 200 playing days ever looked is normal.

*Look people sometimes do join and then leave quickly. I at least as others try to give people a time constraint. Or at least say sorry I gotta go help so and so do this.*

still dont make it right. if you cant commit the time dont go.

*I swear tons of newbie evils have been given everything and their mama. We have lots of equipment left over so its spread to the newbies most of the time. I remember a troll warrior whined for days for dk vault eq when he was small u know what one day we did vault and we didn't really need the eq so he got it.*

i wonder if that troll was also one of the newbies who had everything handed to them at low levels? if folks have never had to work and work for it, they expect to have it handed to them from that time onwards. YES there are exceptions to this, please dont point them out thanks, but this is exactly what the hand out system harbors (the bidding system has it's own set of problems).

*Us around lvl 50 have been there done that. Thaz the easy part. Gets tiring after awhile. Some people just make alt's and keep playing.*

I 'been there, done that' loong time ago. i'm still here. hrm, need to get my head checked...

*Like u said, you are a lvl 36 troll warrior? You have a ebony longsword, I don't believe u should be complaining, us evils hookup who we can.*

Read the part after i said i have ebony. I'm happy warrior. And no evil got me that sword. Hell all of my warrior gear i BOUGHT from goodies since they sell and evils dont. Sure, goodies also do quests just to sell the items a-la everquest which is twinky too. At no time did i ever hint that i'm unhappy with what i have, but i did say several times i dont appreciate folks who do have nearly everything telling me the game is too easy.


*If your not being hooked up Sit around 24/7 and level yourself. Eventually when your 30+ u will get into good xp groups! :P and 40+ zoneing time! I know we even take high 30's characters with us when we lack people.*

I did IC last night. only warrior who didnt die and not due to lack of rescuing as unless i've got a bash target i spam my rescue aliases during fights. 70% luck, 30% having played longer that some would consider healthy.

And as has been stated before, how do you make a 'good xp group' when there are two warriors, a conjie, a non stoning enc, a rogue, an invoker and a shaman between 1 and 50? and that's all that's on? riiiiiiight...

Hey anyone wanna do landsharks for xp?

Sok gets a bad rap....

Lemme tell you a story...

We had a nice big group. we had done SF (had the spankiest one hander in the game and some super spany armor), some other zone and were in middle of doing CC. we got wiped out before doing the one way room. He logged on his warrior to help with cr instead of using his cleric. mask came down and deleted all his gear and halved both his chars.

deleted all his gear, and all that gear we had from the two previous zones!

he fucked up, i wanted that sword BAD and had lined up several of the folks in the group to help and bid on it for me. i still follow him anywhere he goes simply cause a sok group is a fun group.

the evil populace is too small for these petty politics..

ok enough ranting...er...maybe...




[This message has been edited by Grintor (edited 10-09-2001).]

[ShaylaRose]

Well, lets see if I can make sense at this time of night after being out.

Cherzra, I was thinking about what you wrote, and examining the same situation on the good side and tried to analyze it to make an informed reply. I think what jumped out at me in the end is that with fewer evils around, there are also fewer people to help out newbies who do try that side. For instance, on Evermeet, you might bump into Lil and get a nice boost on EQ. Or me and get a little leveling to get you going (I met someone today who was returning after playing years ago, being surprised that it was back up - I got him basic EQ and to level 6 and figured he was set to get reacquainted). Or Anaram. Etc. I spent over and hour wandering my evil home town and saw exactly 0 players. Even if some of you might be willing to help a "n00b", there really isn't much chance of that happening by chance.

Now, I suppose if I knew "evil" players, I might be able to say "hey, I am a little bored of my enchantress, care to show me the ropes of playing evil, I might get a little boost to start so I can get on might feet?" and get some results. As is, I wonder how many chance into Sojourn, try a drow or orc, find it daunting, and give up, quitting Sojourn for good or going "good."

Sadly, I can't really offer any solution. It's not fair to say that higher level evils should be checking "who evil" all the time to try to break in the newbies who do try it. Perhaps if some of the suggested changes to being a newbie get implemented, making life at level 1 a little easier along with better advertising of the mud, maybe more would stick around long enough to get the attention that deserving newbies warrant.

At any rate, I can only sympathize with your plight and hope that it gets better! Everyone should be having fun!

Hugs!
Shayla
- Aedyra the Elven Enchantress

[Ragorn]

Y'know.. this is very reminiscent of a situation that happened on another, similar mud, about a year ago.

The evils formed one big clique group and outcasted everyone they thought was n00b. Killed them all, in fact. All the n00bs went goodie.

Two months later, the clique leader posts on the BBS that evils need upgrades because they have no support classes.

If you don't see the resemblance.......

- Ragorn

[cherzra]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ragorn:
<B>Y'know.. this is very reminiscent of a situation that happened on another, similar mud, about a year ago.

The evils formed one big clique group and outcasted everyone they thought was n00b. Killed them all, in fact. All the n00bs went goodie.

Two months later, the clique leader posts on the BBS that evils need upgrades because they have no support classes.

If you don't see the resemblance.......

- Ragorn</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a *totally* unfair comparison. Evils on Duris purge EVERYONE, there is no purging here. In fact, anyone who is 35+ is welcome to go zoning with me. They almost always end up with eq because of handouts and handdowns. Are you telling me that there is a resemblance?

Hell mostly when I sit at DK fountain I hand out the smaller stuff that is in my bags. Yeah - in zones I loot the mediocre stuff nobody wants to hand it out to newbies later, gasp! How can you say this is our own fault? How many newbies have we pkilled?

[Dezzex]

Heh I agree with Cherzra ... newbies get it nice, the only catch is there have to be high level evils around to help them out. Because of the fact there aren't always many around, I imagine a lot of budding evils simply won't run into the help that others might get just for being in the right place at the right time. Everyone i know on the evil side hands out stuff to newbies. Nobody sells anything, so it gets handed down. Stuff you see selling on the goody market for 500 plats just goes to whoever needs it.

The lack of evils is due to the lack of evils... it's a catch 22, need people to attract people. *shrug*

[Galok Icewolf]

I just know, I'm a evil. I spend a good 1/2 my time helping newbies, low level people, eq, exp, questions whatever. Everyone that was playing 4 years ago or whatever are older now, and have more consitant jobs. They can't afford to play alot so we're stuck trying to do things in a hour. Other evils get bored with this, not being able to do 2-3 zones a week and leave (goodies or quit). Nothing we can do about it, I bet you as soon as zones are being done again evils mysteriously start showing up.

P.s. Sok I dont do zones with you because you have showed blatantly you don't care how often people die to get the zone done. I went with you for 7-8 zones dieing 2 times a zone on average, and then got one item. Thats not why i stopped grouping with you though. We went to brass, and before even getting in the gates hard 4 deaths because people werent rescuing. I offered a solution, you refused, and so I refused to go into a zone im going to die 3+ times in when there should be 3 deaths for the total group. *shrug* I play this game for fun, not to be stressed with CRs all the time....

[Jegzed]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galok Icewolf:
*shrug* I play this game for fun, not to be stressed with CRs all the time....</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THAT does not explain why you did Demi with me everyday for a month

/Jegzed

[Jegzed]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galok Icewolf:
<B> I bet you as soon as zones are being done again evils mysteriously start showing up.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I estimate that I have 2 more weeks of hardcore work before I can mud again...


/Jegzed

[thrankon]

Sup all.
Figured I'd give a personal experience of y i dont play no more at least fer the moment.

1) The mud is incomplete, this may only affect me personally in the world since i play a conji and a bard. But this is a personal experience an all. We've heard the whole thing about how this is going to fixed 'soon'. But soon was about 6 months ago now. We've imped all these new diseases and associations are now ready. Fixed this and that and other damn bug but meanwhile, the class that was to be imped 'within a week' of opening still aint here and aint nowhere in sight. but I digress.
apologies to all those who've heard that rant beofore.

2) I've been/done every zone in the game multipul times, died needless and uneedless deaths had fun and enjoyed the overall presence of the game. But I've grown tired of the elite attitude alot of people good and evil have towards the game thats killing the atmosphere of fun. The unfortunate thing on the evil side is that you must b buddy buddy with the correct people to get your ass upta brass/jot or whatever else. Am sure similar situations on the goodie side exist, its part of the game. But when you do your job for 35+days playing time and end up getting shafted on every run to wherever. It gets tiresome.

3) its great that every core evil has all the eq and such that their character needs.. hell that their character and their alts need. But if ya look around they aint playing.. aint here .. and this is the major reason I stopped. I could have plugged through all the other crap got my spanky set of eq for each character, but when the time comes and they are upgraded.. what then. all the fun stuff of questing and such is gone and my equipment is done.. Think i'lll save it all for the day when it says..

Thranokazer Bloodscroll ELEMENTALIST


[This message has been edited by thrankon (edited 10-10-2001).]

[kiryan]

Heh thats not even half of the sok story, and this isnt either.

One time, after the first eq purge/deleveling (sok had releveld simok because everyone knows warriors easier to level). We were about to do cc but playing from the same site that didnt use ident. Mystra says your multiplaying. simok says some stuff then demands mystra to un ban a university site we used to play from. i say noooo he didnt mean that. simok gets deleted, i get caged for 9 months.

And he comes back for more. This time he relevels sok since sok is already at level 25 and simok is a declined name (even though sok had really really really shitty natural con like 56, he actually thought wisdom was the most important skill when he rolled heh). I forget what he did, I think it was trade some eq with an evil race. next thing you know hes logging in at vipers tongue going damn this dont look like where i rented out... doh outcast.

And still he goes on. He filled the gap when eveyone abandoned the evils. Not only because he was outcast, but because he was willing to try something new. He found the evils had a drastically different approach on things... the handout system, and were concerned with each other rather than what he had experienced in wd, and there were new zones to learn. Things were hard as shit back then too, no evil race mages or clerics, no squids, no globers. Just a bunch of warriors and shaman. He got some goodies to go outcast, couple sorcs and a bard, incidentally not many people who went to the evil side in those day gave the good side a second thought. All of a sudden evils started doing things, beating goodies to zones, did invasion, ect...

since im recounting history and am bored stiff (yep 8 evils on 5 of them warriors) Id like to give a shout out to mikar here, he was a great leader. didnt always walk the straight and narrow, got a lot of spanks, but did the first invasion after a long long drought (i remember times going fuck invasion loaded, damn no jot this boot i guess, hope it crashes soon), and he was much better at sharing zones than a lot of more famous leaders.

sok been through a lot of shit, most of it he made for himself, but he doesnt take things personally. He has more concern for folks than most players do, and its honest concern. some people may not want to follow sok because he doesnt mind the deaths, your absolutely right, he dont mind much about dieing a few times for good or bad reasons. Hes workign from a mindset that eq is vaulable and exp can be redone. he sometimes mutters a "hmmm thats not good" and a "guess you ahve to bash mahdrels sentinals" and "not a good day mike, 8 deaths so far and we havent even gotten to zone yet" and "ok try number 3" He really does chuckle sometimes and other times he just looks down and sighs vs what I do which is scream fuck into the monitor and decimate another 44oz of dew.

Not only that, he doesnt mind not winning all the time. Things like giving up invasion because you got spanked and it would be an hour before you could get rolling again. Things like getting passed at all d from waterfall for choice in invasion because you were memming. He accepts it and goes from there. When another group beats him or does something underhanded, he doesnt go to the gods, he just picks another zone. Dont you think its a lot better that way? or would you rather argue about whose right who was there first and whos a bigger twink?

As for the original reason i started posting heh... evils dont have a challenge (another reason i dont want antis impd for evils). good races and evil races pretty balanced now. So what you got is new evils with different perspectives on how things should be done, lack of novelty, and a lack of competition/need to prove themselves against the goodies. I think you also got a lot of burnout in the early competition evil vs good. Hope we get some of those players back in time. If not, well just have to wait for new blood and our version of folur before we fall into ranks and dk becomes wd version 2. If you dont want that to happen, go zoning, die, enjoy each others company, stop worring about how you really need another piece of eq so your alt will have a decent set, and lose the attitudes (old and new school). Evils have always been a community, thats what makes it different than being a goody, and that is what makes it enjoyable to be a evil race. If your not down with community, go play a goodie.

btw this is a completely pointless post you are now dumber having read it. I award you no points.

[moritheil]

HAIL GRINTOR
HAIL SOK

[Galok Icewolf]

Okay, I don't think sok is a bad guy. I have spent to much time doing exp, to have it literally pissed away. I give sok major kudos for leading groups, I know its annoying and i have done it alot, but i made a resolve to myself that I don't want to go to several zones dieing many times a zone to have warrior items given to clerics, cleric items given to mages, and mage items given to warriors. I did that too much on the goodie side, doing brass 50 times to get two amythest rings was painful (seeing other people eq their 4th alt with them before me). I just dont call that fun.

Sok gets points in my book for trying to do zones, but until his attitude changes towards peoples hard earned exp, I won't be zoning with him leading.

[Xizz]

Simple as this, "core" group of evil race characters used to be a group of experienced players who have zoned a lot and know their class roles. As such, some of us will get mean (*grr*) at people who make silly mistakes while zoning. A lot of us having stuck together tend to be friendly to newbies who sit around at the fountain or who we meet in passing. However if you join the group, we get harsh at newbies to toughen them up and to get the point across. (some people do take it too far) This is probably why there seems to be two opinions on why there are some evils who seem friendly and some who don't.

As for friends, there are a few people who I would consider "core" for me and they could count on me to help them out in most cases if I could. As for my absence from the mud, that's mostly because of RL and not being able to budget my time to put into playing the MUD.


Oh, yeah, play a drow and find that hard? bwahaha, that's a joke right? ^_^
Drows are the easiest of all toril races to level :P

[This message has been edited by Xizz (edited 10-11-2001).]

[Trogar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Grintor:
anyway just my two cents. Grintor the barb (instead of the current troll version) may live yet again (hey tro you dont still hate me right bro?)</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*PEER* I never hated you dude. I do remember, that somehow you and Tol got on each others bad side. I don't recall how / why. That probably cause a lack of invites on my part.

Anyway, I put almost all old grudges away long ago. Unless you did some personal disloyalties to me, its all clean.

I'd invite you to zone with me one day, but I'm way too busy to mud for the time being .

Trogar

[Trogar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xizz:
Simple as this, "core" group of evil race characters used to be a group of experienced players who have zoned a lot and know their class roles.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am disappointed to hear that the evils had dwindled. The evils were by far the strongest of the 3 groups over the summer. You guys had the vokers and high enchanters before anyone.

I think the evils went about doing things wrong. I heard it was hard to break into the evil zone group for example. Especially if you are a warrior. I do know of several people who went goodie because of things like that. Either way, I'm not qualified to say.

However, being a leader is MUCH more then leading silly zones. One of the job as leader, is to recruit new players. You have to just accept that people come and people go. Being able to pick out a person in a crown who can jell with your group is a skill.

When you recruit new players, you have to give them lots of leaway. You can't expect some newbie lvl 42 to know everything. It takes time to learn how to mud. If you diss people for making mistakes all the time, they arn't going to want to play with you, no matter what eq you give them.

Recruitment is the secret to long term success. I hope the evils rebound.

Trogar

[Grintor]

No one person has come forward to lead all of the evils, and since the evil population has always only been enough for one zoning group a lot of folks got left out in the cold.

Leaders this wipe have been:
Cherzra
Lazz
Ice
Krolb (rarely)
Sok (still working on the EdakSpeak(tm) translator plug in for zmud....)

New leaders have been:
Rokub
Jaznolg

i may have missed a few.

There are not enough evils to make that many groups. What started happening is someone would join a zone group, get partially through and say 'i have to leave to help 'soandso'. Or 'help me kill this 'mob' real quick'. Man tro, if anyone did that during toril they'd be hung by their entrails on the waterdeep flea board.


anyway, i gonna go roll an anti till evils have clerics again

[Trogar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Grintor:
There are not enough evils to make that many groups. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What happened then? Didn't the evils use to zone with liek 26 people in the summer? When we are all weak, the evils use to bring numbers to power zones. That is a LOT of people to quit/go goodie.

Tro