The status of Newbies

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Nitania
Sojourner
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am

The status of Newbies

Postby Nitania » Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:37 pm

Curious about the new player population.

In the general discussion section, the thread about "multiplaying" got me thinking. Do new players feel that hopeless about grouping?

Read that thread, form an oppinion and post suggestions to help the newbies.

There just arent enough new new players here. We have to find out why and fix it. There are already some ideas posted in that thread.

Feedback from actual new mudders would be helpful, Im sure.

Just a concerned rogue.

Nitania
Rugalin
Sojourner
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Shertz, Tx, USA

Postby Rugalin » Wed Oct 03, 2001 9:41 pm

Well... not sure about the lack of newbies in general (though the numbers in who do support that). As for multiplaying, dunno.

Still trying to find the multiplaying thread, and as for grouping... most of it seems to happen when the mobs get to hard even when perfectly matched to take out. Even then, personally, I like the occasional group, not the must group to do anything (of course, my highest level is a wopping 11 so far..:>)

I do know I found out that sojourn was up when checking for SD, so it was just luck.

lucky me..:>

Also want to say, that I have been extremely surprised at the amount of help I have receieved since starting to play. Toplack, Xaril, Vadian and Gafan all went out of there way to make my start easier. Gotta love that!


[This message has been edited by Rugalin (edited 10-03-2001).]
User avatar
Shevarash
FORGER CODER
Posts: 2944
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:01 am

Postby Shevarash » Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:04 pm

Well, here's what I'mm thinking, after reading that thread:

1) Add a LFG (looking for group) toggle, that shows up next to your name on the who list.

2) Write up a 'Newbie Guide' for posting on the web site. Could contain suggestions for which class/race to start out as, and offer a bunch of useful tips on getting started.

3) Remember those solo-exp grid zones? Perhaps instead of those zones trying to provide solo exp opportunities for all levels and classes, the mobs could be retooled for 1-20th level solo exp'ing. If done right, that could be a tremendous resource for newbies who can't find groups, given the large number of these grids.

Just my thoughts as of now..opinions welcome.



------------------
<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
Todrael
Sojourner
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:01 am
Location: MI, USA
Contact:

Postby Todrael » Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:29 pm

I love all of those ideas. Some other things that would help a lot, in my opinion:

1) Upgrade the newbie eq. Right now, as far as I know, you could remove and drop all of the pieces of newbie eq and lose no effectiveness, except for perhaps the weapon.

2) I don't know exactly how to implement this.. but giving newbies access to some spells like barkskin, armor, bless, or vit in some fashion would be a great help. Perhaps there could be a mob in the newbie area that spells you up if you're in the room with it?

3) Giving simple directions to area's suitable for levels 1-10 and 11-20 in some kind of help file. Knowing how to get to pod village might help a newbie a considerable amount.

4) Perhaps make mobs under level 5 not regen. This wouldn't change much except giving a newbie the opportunity to make runs on it, which is currently not possible as any mob this level will completely heal any damage it has taken in virtually no time. It's probably also rather discouraging to incap a mob, and see it heal back up to full while you're fanning it with the breeze of your wildly swinging weapon.

5) Give newbies a bonus to hitroll and/or damroll at level 1 that gradually decreases until it disappears at level 11.

-Todrael

[This message has been edited by Todrael (edited 10-03-2001).]
Abbayarra
Sojourner
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2001 5:01 am
Location: San Diego

Postby Abbayarra » Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:35 pm

I just returned to Sojourn after several years off. I brought with me two friends. We all have years of mudding experience, but we're still newbies.
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:37 pm

I agree with Todd's comments

as far as the grid zones.. I dont think they're too great for newbies because they are difficult to find... and they are so vast that its easy to get lost in them.

Might want to remove justice from smaller stuff around wd..

Most important though, is I think that the exp tables should be reduced from 1-20 so that people level very quickly to 20. A level 3 obviously cannot be of much assistance to a level 24. But a level 20 can. We should funnel the newbies through the early levels so that they all end up in the 20's and there are more people to group with.
rylan
Sojourner
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Hudson, MA

Postby rylan » Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:40 pm

Ohh.. yeah, soem good ideas.

I really like the LFG toggle idea.

Newbie guide sounds good also. Image

XP grids.. yeah, they need something tweaked with them. Have the mobs be both classed and unclassed, with good range for lvl 1-20 people (I'd guess lvl 1 to 30 mobs? ).

Low lvl mobs not regenning would rock.. or maybe just really slow down regen. As mentioned, normal mob regen has those tiny mobs basically recover to full hps in a matter of seconds.

Newbie eq.. hmm.. hard to say. I would stress exploring the newbie zone.. I actually did and found quite a bit of eq thats a little better than the stuff you start with.
Nitania
Sojourner
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Nitania » Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:45 pm

GREAT! GREAT! GREAT!

Superb ideas everyone

Shev, Tod, Corth, Rylan all great ideas.

Implementing a form of all of these ideas would be a huge help to pc's under lvl 21, which is where this mud suffers. Image

keep up the ideas!!

Nitania
Vylare
Sojourner
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:01 am
Contact:

Postby Vylare » Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:56 pm

I, personally, think that being a newbie is easier than ever - this is just judging from what I have seen and remember from when I started. Actually I came to Sojourn twice; the first time I came and I decided it was too different from other muds I had played, so I left again without giving it a chance Image. Some time later I was looking for a new mud and decided to give it another try. This time I was absolutely fascinated by the quality of the mud, and stayed, although you started naked in your guild in the dark and couldn't see to put your equipment on til someone lit came in the room, although you couldn't ooc til level 3 and at first I thought there wasn't even a chat channel and didn't know how to ask questions Image, and I had no idea what I was doing - it was a LOT less newbie friendly then, trust me Image
It was a really good move to not newlock the mud any more when gods weren't on - that used to keep a lot of people from trying the mud itself, because they didn't know what was going on, when they might be able to log back on, etc.

You have to realize that on ANY mud the majority of newbies that log on don't stay more than 5 minutes. The ones who stay and give it a chance are the ones who may stay and form your core player base. Sojourn is lucky that it already had a core player base; there's an awful lot of muds around these days and mudders tend to fear change, so if they log on to a mud that doesn't look exactly like their home mud they may not like it. I'd hate to see the staff make every change suggested (and have confidence they won't - multiplaying, ugh) in an attempt to draw new players - this never works and results in a fragmented game.

The BEST mud advertising is word of mouth, but it takes time. And sometimes a great deal of it. It doesn't help that Everquest pulled a lot of players away either.

My opinion is give it time, and if people honestly feel groups are that hard to find (I don't, my level 17 druid gets group offers from people I don't know ALL the time, and she's on EM) make a newbie and don't plevel it Image.
Vylare
Sojourner
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:01 am
Contact:

Postby Vylare » Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:01 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B>I love all of those ideas. Some other things that would help a lot, in my opinion:

1) Upgrade the newbie eq. Right now, as far as I know, you could remove and drop all of the pieces of newbie eq and lose no effectiveness, except for perhaps the weapon.

2) I don't know exactly how to implement this.. but giving newbies access to some spells like barkskin, armor, bless, or vit in some fashion would be a great help. Perhaps there could be a mob in the newbie area that spells you up if you're in the room with it?

3) Giving simple directions to area's suitable for levels 1-10 and 11-20 in some kind of help file. Knowing how to get to pod village might help a newbie a considerable amount.

4) Perhaps make mobs under level 5 not regen. This wouldn't change much except giving a newbie the opportunity to make runs on it, which is currently not possible as any mob this level will completely heal any damage it has taken in virtually no time. It's probably also rather discouraging to incap a mob, and see it heal back up to full while you're fanning it with the breeze of your wildly swinging weapon.

5) Give newbies a bonus to hitroll and/or damroll at level 1 that gradually decreases until it disappears at level 11.

-Todrael

[This message has been edited by Todrael (edited 10-03-2001).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some of this stuff scares me. Healer/spellup mob is stock diku, I'm thinking there's a reason it was taken out (though I dunno if it was in copper, I'd have to look at copper code, but I'm betting it was). I REALLY don't think this mud is THAT hard to level from 1-10 on that it needs to be made considerably easier, and too much spoonfeeding leads to people wanting to be spoonfed forever. IMHO. *shrug*
Galorion
Sojourner
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Galorion » Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:20 pm

I don't think that low level xp is necessarily the problem - it's the fact that you can't do a thing on this mud without good equipment. With a decent set of gear, you can absolutely fly through levels 1-15 or so.

True newbies won't have any way to get good eq other than random handouts from people, so they're gonna have a really rough time. I think that if newbies were given better default gear (maybe even a couple of token ac0 +1h rings or something) then they'd be a lot better off.

BTW, how does one become a newbie helper? Whenever I roll up a new character to play around with I always wind up answering questions on NHC until I get to level 10 and can't access the channel anymore.
Wargo
Sojourner
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: New York, N.Y., USA
Contact:

Postby Wargo » Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:42 pm

I just have one suggestion to add. In the newbie help file, when suggesting the class, please point out which classes are absolutely essential in high level zoning groups, ie. Warrior, Cleric, Enchanter. Not only will these players get more help and offers, it will also help the existing player base with a boost of useful classes that are sometimes hard to find. when suggesting race, please don't put down human. Even though Waterdeep is a very convenient town and is located smack in the center of the realm, it is not a very friendly town and may be somewhat hard to navigate. I would suggest either Drow Elf, Grey Elf, or Half-Elf with starting city in Liuthilspar. The goodie elves have a pretty tide community and I believe they are very friendly with new comers. The evil elves start in a very well designed and easy to navigate town. The friendly environment created by all the evil population also helps to incorporate new comers into the mud community.

Yssilk
P.S. Please remove the claimer that evils are hard to play. Some evil races may be hard but I believe newbies who start out evil gets treated and helped better than those who start out good. Image
Caedym
Sojourner
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Houston Texas
Contact:

Postby Caedym » Thu Oct 04, 2001 12:00 am

What level of Newbiedom are we targeting here? When I call someone a Newbie, the term has always implied someone very new to the concept of MUD’n in general. The kind of person you have to tell what “You are hungry.” means you need to do, and how it affects you. A Sojourn Newbie would just be someone new to the Sojourn Style of mudding. Now, Soj3 is very user friendly in regards to people who already have MUD’n experience and my concern isn’t in that area.

If you’ve played MUDs before, Soj isn’t hard to learn, nor to attain level 11 for any class other then BARDS. (Whenever I roll up a caster, I normally get spammed with group offers less then 30 seconds after logging in.) Changing the EXP charts to allow fast leveling to 20th is absurd. Soj has always prided itself on being worth the long hard effort to level up, take that away, and you have Duris/Bast. Note that I don’t completely disagree with the idea to reduce some leveling requirements, just that all the way to 20th. When I play a new mud, I don’t judge it’s difficulty and fun by how long it takes me to get to 20th level. I can tell if I’m going to stick around by how long it takes me to get 1-3 levels and the attitude of fellow players towards me, as well as the ease of COMMUNICATION with other players. I suggest a reduction in the EXP requirements for the first 5 levels. That makes people very new to the Soj, or MUDs in general more receptive to invest time here cuz you’re suckering them in. Also note, that the experience from 5 to 6th level wouldn’t change, and therefore would be slightly harder in relation to the previous 5 you’ve just gotten. But why do this? Because 6th level is a new circle of spells, and in the case of most classes, this is where you start getting new skills. Let 1-5 be easy, then 5-6 same, 6-10 slightly easier then it was with the amount of reduction slowly decreasing as you get closer to 10th, and then 10-11 same as before. Work em like a drug dealer would. First ones free, and as you get more and more addicted, it requires more and more time/effort/exp, and with each new brand of dope (Skills/Spells) you supply them with in their progression towards total dependency they become that much more hopelessly addicted to it.

We don’t need the solo grid zones to be made into 1-20th level zones. There already is a Newbie zone you start out in that teaches you how to play the game as is, and every hometown has SOME place you can go and level a new character. Since Soj is a group based MUD for doing zones, we shouldn’t be enforcing the opposite concept to new players. We already have enough permanent hometown players as is. Lets support and promote what Soj is all about, grouping and getting out of town. The LFG toggle is a terrific idea Shev, and what could go a long with that is a LFG CHANNEL that isn’t level limited. One for goodies, and one for evils, just like what was done with the ‘who’ list. Major kudos to implementing the ‘who evil’ ‘who good’ commands btw. Or maybe, just maybe, we relax the rules on the Newbie channel and allow anyone to connect to it. Thus turning it into a LFG channel? I personally don’t understand the restriction to access this channel has in the first place.

A Newbie guide on the webpage is a good idea, and this suggestion spurred another one.

What if Soj3 had a newbie school? Here is a very rough idea of what I’m talking about.

Connected to host sojourn3.org
Ident resolved to []
Hostname resolved to [216.181.255.108]
Please enter your term type (<CR> ansi, '?' help): Unknown terminal type!
Please re-enter term type (<CR> for ANSI, '1' for VT-100):

__----~~~~~~~~~~~------__
Sojourn III Beta _//~ ~//====...... __--~ ~~
-_ _..--+o \\ ||_ ~~~~~~::::... /~
___-==_ `--=;_`_ \\ || -_ _/~~-
__---~~~.==~|-_=_ ~-~ _/~ |- _|| -_ _/~
__--~ .=~ | -_-_ / /- / || -_ /
= .~ | -_-_ / /- / || -_ /
/ ____ / | - ~-_/ /|- _/ .|| -/
|~~ ~~|--~~~~--_|_ ~==-/ | \\--===~~ ./
' ~| /| |-~\\~ __--~~
|~~~~-_/ | | ~\\ _-~ /\\
Where the Journey / -_ -__ <--~ \\
will Never end.. _--~ _/ | .-~~____--~-/ ~~~===.
((->/~ '.|||' -_| ~~-/ , . _||
-_ -_ ~~---l__i__i__i--~~_/
Based mostly on the _-~-__ ~) _=--_____________--~~
Forgotten Realms //.-~~~-~_--~- |-------~~~~~~~~
//.-~~~--\\

Forgers: Cyric, Miax, Shevarash

Original Diku Base: Hans Henrik, Katja Nyboe,
Tom Madsen, Michael Seifert, and Sebastian Hammer.


Do you wish to create a new character? Y/N
y
Have you ever MUD’d on Sojourn3 before? Y/N (Y takes you straight to character creation)
n
Would you like a to take an informative walk-thru that will teach you how to play Sojourn? Y/N (N takes you straight to character creation)
y
You have selected yes, which either means you are new to MUD’n in general or just Sojourn’s style of MUD’n. Either way this tutorial will hopefully provide you with the necessary skills to become another powerful and contributing member of our game world!…


Etc etc etc

Course personally, I’d love to see a deep immersion in RP thru the tutorial instead of just hum drum point and click so to speak. (Imagine that, me wanting RP =P)

Furthermore, I think anyone who goes thru the tutorial should have their character then secretly flagged as New2Soj. So any staff member, and possibly any mortal over level 45, responding to the individual would know immediately that they indeed had a Soj Newbie in their hands, and therefore could respond more appropriately. Maybe the flag would be auto-removed from visibility at 30th level to players? It would be nice to have it always show up in the ‘who’ command.

I think we all would love to know who was NEW to Soj3, and who was just another freaking ALT =P

I want to see and help people get on Soj3 that have never mudded before, A LOT MORE then just people from other MUDs, cuz they tend to become a LOT more hopelessly addicted to it!

PS. Why isn’t there an RP channel?
Caedym
Sojourner
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Houston Texas
Contact:

Postby Caedym » Thu Oct 04, 2001 12:07 am

Forgot to mention that levels 20-40 are a big bonding phase where you really make good friends who you'll stick around and zone the big zones with you later. Sure there are a lot of people who seemed to stay forever in the 30's. How many did you help get out of that funk and into the 40's? How big of a friend did you make by doing that?
Laxlez
Sojourner
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Postby Laxlez » Thu Oct 04, 2001 12:19 am

Just some personal experiences first...
The newbie experience is based almost solely on the class/race combination they pick these days.. for instance, I've started up the following characters with no eq:
troll shaman
ogre warrior
yuanti invoker
orc shaman

The troll shaman and ogre warrior were cake to get up to level 10 with newbie EQ and then what I could buy in the stores.. From then on, you can get help from other people really quickly..

The yuanti invoker I played for 4 hours and never suceeded in killing a mob.. To heck with not getting experience.. I had a damned good set of stats and was NEVER able to kill a mob.. I hit them, they regen.. they spank me, I flee.. and its not like there was anyone for me to group with..

The orc shaman I got to level 4 in like 12 hours of play time.. This seems about the same as it was for me starting a troll shaman on Soj1.. and this would've been all fine and dandy, but again, there was no one to group with because I couldn't get to all the other evils, so I just stopped playing that character..

And remember, these last two characters were both created after I had a level 25+ (maybe 30) on here.. and after 2.5 years of experience in the same zones on Soj1 / Toril.. So yes, I think there's something that needs to be done..

So where do I think the problem lies? The difficulty for some classes to kill mobs while they're newbie-equipped with noone else to group with.

Solutions to this?
Todrael's idea to have low level mobs not regen seems great to me.. It's frustrating and annoying to be sitting at level 2 for hours because the injured raptors you are fighting regen from pretty hurt to excellent while you whiff over and over again and your own spells only get them to few scratches.. small wounds if lucky.

More importantly, we need more players.. The nice thing about Soj1 was that there was a constant influx of newbie troll warriors and shamans who you could group with.. Yes, levelling was slower than now.. but you still felt like you were accomplishing something while fighting and you got to know the people you were grouping with.

Perhaps we could encourage people to start playing with groups of friends in the Newbie Guide or even as soon as they select "Yes" at the opening screen. I know that I wouldn't still be playing now if I hadn't gotten 3 of my friends to start playing shortly after I did this time around (even though only one of them still plays). We all got up to level 18-25 together.. And it made it a lot more fun..

Something else I think would help, and certainly made me aspire to be a better player on Soj1 would be the reintroduction of guilds (or associations or whatever they'll be called this time around).. What I felt was my greatest accomplishment on Soj1 was becoming Fierthor /><\ Dark Alliance. It was nice that we could join at such a low level because it gave us something to aspire to.. we knew people who were joining.. and we got to join before we got tired of the endless XPing (and that's really all I did on Soj1 for 40 pdays and 39 levels.. so I guess it was pretty damned cool back then).

So yes, there are short term fixes that can be used to make it easier to get up to "playing" levels as the mud is now.. But the ultimate goal should be for levels 1-50 to be the "playing" levels and this would require an increase in the playerbase.

I try to recruit others to play.. and yes, some leave.. but I know there's a level 38 Invoker on here now because I got others to play when I started. So encourage others to play.. encourage them to get their friends to play.. and DON'T powerlevel them! Sure, help them out.. but the mud needs a newbie playerbase in order to grow.

And I don't know how advertising works in the mud world.. but surely there's something that could be done.. I know my friend came across the mud randomly back in 1994.. and either this isn't happening as much now, or people are just not staying.

I think this thread has been very productive so far and hope some of the ideas get implemented.. It'll make the environment better for everyone I think..

-Laxlez
Vylare
Sojourner
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:01 am
Contact:

Postby Vylare » Thu Oct 04, 2001 12:31 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Laxlez:
<B>And I don't know how advertising works in the mud world.. but surely there's something that could be done.. I know my friend came across the mud randomly back in 1994.. and either this isn't happening as much now, or people are just not staying.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said, word of mouth is the best advertisement. Here's a post from rec.games.mud.diku that supports this:

"From: Erwin S. Andreasen (erwin@andreasen.com)
Subject: Re: Advertising (was: Critiquing Ads (was: [AD] Make Gold Coins Fast!))
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
View this article only
Date: 2001-07-07 06:05:51 PST



"Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc@nospam.ix.netcom.com> writes:

> How effective do you think a mud advert in _any_ usenet group is?

I have some stats from the few times I made a poll. Both times I asked
players to indicate how they found us:

August 1998: 49 responses (all players were asked to respond)
17 - word of mouth (real life friend)
11 - mudconnector
9 - world of mouth (another MUD)
7 - other
4 - browsing the web
1 - Usenet
0 - game commandos


January 1999: 30 responses (new players in November/December only)
13 - Mud of the Month feature -- http://www.mudconnector.com/motm/motm-1198.html
7 - word of mouth
6 - mudconnector (otherwise)
3 - web
1 - other
0 - gamecommandos
0 - usenet

We haven't advertised on the mudconnector *boards* though, and there
weren't that many Usenet ads (4-5 ?).

> Now we've had more success in getting players via banner ads placed
> on the various mud search sites,

Do you have some exact stats (i.e. how many people followed the link,
how many actually logged in to the MUD, how many stayed)? I want to
run some banner ads on mudconnector/topmudsites in the nearest
future. Maybe Google's AdWords program too?


> and oddly enough by having the mud's own web pages prominent in the
> various search engines. But even so that's not where the bulk of
> the players come from. It stills seems that by and large word of
> mouth between friends and aquaintances is still the rule of thumb in
> attracting new players.

Indeed, see above.


--
===============================================================
<erwin@andreasen.com> Herlev, Denmark Software Designer
<URL:http://www.andreasen.org/> <*> Eicon Networks Research
===============================================================

If you'd like a link to the whole thread, here it is Image
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=e7509529084bb800&seekm=9jv4db%24lpj%242%40slb4.atl.mindspring.net&frame=off

I have way too much time on my hands at work..laugh.
Nitania
Sojourner
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Nitania » Thu Oct 04, 2001 12:44 am

BTW, I do not support the idea of multiplaying. I was stating that the thread on multiplaying spawned this thread on newbie help.

Nitania
Nitania
Sojourner
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Nitania » Thu Oct 04, 2001 12:45 am

ack, way to Hscroll the thread! lol
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Postby Sarvis » Thu Oct 04, 2001 2:55 am

One thing I thought always sucked is the complete helplessness of casters at low levels. A level 1 invoker can barely kill a kooshie dog... and his one magic missile does less damage than his dagger! Anyone who rolls up a voker is likely to get frustrated and just leave. Basically if you just made magic missile actually do some damage at lvl 1 it would make the class playable even if you don't have spanky eq or friends to level you.

Also, I don't think it needs to be made easier to level from 1-20. I can get a warrior class to level 5 in a couple hours with just newbie gear... and clerical classes with the armor spell are only a little slower. But casters I can't even get to level 2 without begging people to group.

Also I think telling people to start in Leuthilspar is a bad idea. It's true that the elves there are nice and generally help each other out a lot, but they aren't actually on the island much. All too often I do a who grey 1-20 and there's no one... which means evermeet is probably empty.

Sarvis
User avatar
Shevarash
FORGER CODER
Posts: 2944
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:01 am

Postby Shevarash » Thu Oct 04, 2001 4:16 am

Some very good ideas here. Personally, I am loathe to change the exp tables anymore at this point, though. I would much rather make the actual acquisition of experience easier for a new player. The no (or lessened) regen for small mobs is an excellent idea towards that end.

And as for my comments about changing around the grid zones: to my knowledge there are 2 grids per hometown. Why not drastically change around ONE of those grids per hometown to be highly suited for lowlevel SOLO exping. It would still have to be inferior to group-based exping, to provide an incentive to look for a group, but at least newbies would never be stuck with *nothing* at all to do.

The LFG channel is an interesting idea too. We could tie the channel to the who flag toggle to ensure that people don't loiter on the channel and fill it with useless clatter in fear of being continually asked to group. Image

And Caedym, the reason for NHC being limited to volunteer helpers and newbies is to ensure that new players on the MUD are given only the best advice and the channel is kept free of off-topic clutter.

Wargo - thanks for the compliment concerning DK's design, and I would like to point out that the evil disclaimer was removed awhile ago. Image

Keep those ideas coming! Image



------------------
<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Postby kiryan » Thu Oct 04, 2001 5:47 am

I'm a pretty experienced player, and I first came back I rolled up a squid, an invoker, and an enchanter. I got flat out owned, after 4 hours, I had managed to acquire 4 >'s of experience with the enchanter, and level 4 for the squid took 12 hours. I didnt read any of the newbie help stuff, so I didnt even know I could type enter sojourn to go to my guild for a long time (that was really bad for the enchanter heh). I rolled up a troll warrior and acquired level 4 in 3 hours.

Suggestions:

Todraels idea on mobs not regenning under level 5 would own.

I also like Tods idea of newbie hit and dam and add AC that decreases with level. People generally like instant gratification, hook them, then slowly make things more difficult.

Take memory off most of the mobs in the newbie zone.

Death under level 7 doesnt remove experience (this so you cant lose your new spells or skills).

Get rid of the permanent HP penalty for dieing.

Get rid of the misses on magic missile, you cant hit them with your weapon, and your freaking spell misses all the time at level 1. As a matter of fact, magic missile needs to hit a lot harder at newbie levels too.

Newbies should be encouraged to play classes that arent highly dependent on eq. clerics, enchanters, and invokers come to mind. High level players like to twink out secondary melee. So generally there is a glut of melee. Also, statistics should be provided on play time populations and class makeup of at least the three base classes.

Common char creation knowledge should be shared with them at creation time. I know there are differing opinions, but things like:

90% of good race warriors are dwarven or barbarian because dwarves have infravision and both have best good race hps and strength barbs having higher strength.

60 of evil warriors are troll and 15% ogre
because trolls have amazing regen and solo capability and ogres get the most hitpoints, hit the hardest, and can bash (very important) large creatures.

A high con is extremely important as it dractically affects your hitpoints and char at later levels.

A High str is very important for warriors because it affects skill success and most warrior skills are str based.

it should be class specific and include a lot of discussion on the pros and cons. players should be commissioned to write these. They should discourage atypical choices and leave those for the more advanced players, or the newbies with a powerful will
ShaylaRose
Sojourner
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 5:01 am
Location: OR, USA

Postby ShaylaRose » Thu Oct 04, 2001 7:03 am

I hope Shevarash reads my post on the other board/thread. Image

Anyway, I mentioned this way back when I first posted here, and saw it reiterated here by Todrael. Newbie EQ needs to be better (maybe coming from an experienced player, someone will actually listen - I find it odd that even when it comes to newbie issues, I still don't get listened to). I like my idea of expanding the newbie zone (but hey, who doesn't like their own ideas! Image ). I think that "earning" your equipment allows you to take more pride in your advancement than having it given.

I honestly wonder at people who say you can easily level up to 20th with any class with just core equipment. Yes, the veteran player that knows what to "twink" (if I am using the term correctly), where to kill, and where to run to safety can do all that. But we aren't talking about those players, are we? Image

As I mentioned on the other thread, don't discourage players from playing what they want to play early on. Maybe evil is more difficult, maybe enchanters a royal pain, but if someone is looking to have fun, why force them into a role they don't want to play.

Anyway, don't want to be redundant too much!

Hugs!
Shayla
- Aedyra the Elven Enchantress
Mister Furious
Sojourner
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Mister Furious » Thu Oct 04, 2001 8:09 am

Kick ass! My LFG toggle idea is getting put in! I feel so special! One man really can make a diffrence. *sniff* By the way, I just posted on the other thread about how great the players of Sojourn are before I found this one.
cherzra
Sojourner
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Holland

Postby cherzra » Thu Oct 04, 2001 12:11 pm

Well I wrote a review for the mud connector, enthusiastic hyped-up new players should be flooding the mud any day now!
cherzra
Sojourner
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Holland

Postby cherzra » Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:05 pm

Shevarash: this was mentioned before too but I'll post it here again, I think it's a great addition for newbies.


Stores now sell total junk eq that nobody cares about, and this isn't appealing to newbies.

As the uptime is longer, various low and mid level stuff is sold to the store. These items may be crap to most people, but to newbies they are something that makes them go 'WOW! I GOTTA get the 2 plat to buy that!'.

However, the game crashes and all this is gone.

My suggestion: save this stuff in the store list. Perhaps max 50 items, then the list (array) of available items 'shifts' one up as something new is sold.

This way, there will always be a lot of items that are sold for a few gold or plat, which newbies can gawk at and buy.


I *know* from experience that more eq in shops will attract people. My first char was in bloodstone, where the stores are better filled than in WD. I spent weeks gathering up the money to buy those items I saw and drooled over in the stores there, it gave me a goal and great sense of satisfaction to 'buy' my very own cloak of ogre hide and bloodstone chainmail.

Cherzra
ShaylaRose
Sojourner
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 5:01 am
Location: OR, USA

Postby ShaylaRose » Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:15 pm

Not that he needs my stamp of approval Image but Chezra is right. That would help too. I remember that around level 8 or so, Lilithelle gave me 10 platinum pieces, and I thought I was the richest character in the world. She still laughs at me about that.

Hugs!
Shayla
- Aedyra the Elven Enchantress
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Ashiwi » Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:19 pm

I'd be heartbroken to see Sojourn reduced to the levels of some muds just to make it "easier" for newbies. I was new here once, we all were. I still consider myself fairly new, and I played last wipe. The first levels were hard, to be sure, and trying to level without the equipment can be incredibly frustrating. The only thing is, it was getting through that "breaking in" period that seemed to make us better mudders and more prepared for the road ahead.

There are only two things I would have liked to see as a brand new player here. One should be fairly simple, the other might be impossible.

The first would be the ability to actually kill something at first level with newbie gear. It's very nice when somebody comes along and gives you some nice pieces of equipment, I know I appreciated it a great deal, but not nearly as much as I appreciated the ability to finally work my way into a group and bid on my first decent piece of equip on my own. I appreciated getting my own gear BECAUSE I knew I'd worked my butt off to get where I was. I think that's the one thing that sets Sojourn apart from other muds, it's NOT a cakewalk to level 50 for most of us, it's not even a cakewalk to 10th, and if we worked to get to that point, then we're so much more appreciative of what we've achieved.

The second thing I thought would have been nice was... interaction and recognition that I was an honest to gosh newbie. I was a stranger here the very first time I came on. Yes, I had mudded before, but not on anything like Sojourn. I had to learn the commands, the syntax, get adjusted to the formatting of the text, and find my way around. I'm fairly sure a lot of people ignored that I was level 1 because it was some time into wipe, and by then most level 1's were somebody else's alt. When I first came, I didn't know anybody else here, I was simply searching for a mud to replace the one that I had been playing on. I could not access OOC, I don't remember NHC, or if NHC existed at that time since there was no obvious way of finding out that it existed or how to use it. I didn't want docs that took me forever to read, I didn't want better equipment handed to me, I didn't want somebody else to lead me around by the nose. I wanted the challenge of a new mud, the only thing I wanted from Sojourn that I didn't get was interaction.

Admittedly, the first time I started on Soj, I rolled up a grey cleric. The island must have been deserted. I wandered around in the dark, the only things I could see were red shapes. I thought these might be players, but I wasn't sure. I tried saying "excuse me...", "pardon me, but...", "could I ask..." Eventually I quit out and went somewhere else to play for a while. When I came back and tried Sojourn the second time, I had a much better experience and was hooked for life.

How do you achieve interaction on a mud like Sojourn? I don't really know. Some of the ways I've seen it accomplished were by giving the helpers the ability to relocate to the newbie in order to talk to them face to face. I can see the problems that could arise from that, though. I've always enjoyed meeting people who were truly new to the mud, it's a wonderful experience to be able to help them not feel the way I felt when I first came here. For the true newbie it can be a very positive experience to meet somebody instead of handling everything over a chat channel, it makes the experience much more personal. I know there have to be people here who want to go that one extra step to help new players feel at home.

So with that in mind, there's really only one suggestion that I can think of that might help. True newbies don't know all the toggles yet, or how to work them. Give them the flag of "novice" or something like that. Somebody more experienced can tog it off. Let it only remain active for the first three to five levels. Make it a choice the player can make when they roll up the character. (Are you new to Sojourn or the experience of mudding? Y/N)

Don't make it easier, if we wanted easy, we wouldn't be on Sojourn. If we wanted PK, we wouldn't be on Sojourn. If we wanted a science fiction theme with robots and cyber gangsters, we wouldn't be on Sojourn. If we wanted level 50 in a week, we wouldn't be on Sojourn. If we wanted a cakewalk, we wouldn't be on Sojourn.

You want to encourage grouping at lower levels? Give people a reason to group, give them a group exp bonus before level 20. I would much rather have seen that than exp tables reduced pre-20. You want to encourage people to stay past that first five minute window? Give them a face with the disembodied voice. There are great people on this mud who will take the true newbie under their wing and show them the ropes without piling them down with spanky eq and ruining the thrill of working for it. We just need a way to tell the true newbie from the spanked out alt from a distance.
Ensis
Sojourner
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Portland, OR 97219
Contact:

Postby Ensis » Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:47 pm

I think my biggest concern is like Kiryan said, casters get their asses handed to them on a silver platter at low levels. I'd almost venture to say that you should put the "advanced" warning on caster classes because they are so hard to play at low level if you don't know the game. I think thats the main reason we see so many warriors/rogues/rangers/paladins/anti's as opposed to caster types, because combat at such low level is all hit/dam..

That one spell mages get is definately not going to kill a mob, and their hit points aren't going to outlast it, the newbie equipment isn't going to stand up against enemy thac0 and i'm sure their thac0 is poor enough to begin with.

I tend to think that mages SHOULD be harder because later on there is more of a want in groups for the high powered nukers than hitters, and globers/stoners are always a must, as well as healers, where warriors tend to be a dime a dozen because they can be easier to solo with.

I think in this case the balance is weighted too heavily on melee types, and it shows on the who list. Casters could get a little bit of a boost.

E
Sylvos
Sojourner
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
Contact:

Postby Sylvos » Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:57 pm

Just a question for the newbie helpers - do they have the ability to enter the newbie zones to provide personal assistance? While the NHC is great, and would have been awesome when I first started sooooo many moons ago, I think just having somebody come to where you are and talk to you would be awesome.

Helpers wouldn't be obligated to do this obviously, but it would be one extra little thing to make a newbie's life easier.

Sylvos

p.s. I'm not proposing the helper goes and kills stuff for them for powerleveling. Just there to talk with them and explain things that maybe they're afraid to ask over a public channel in fear of looking 'dumb'.
Ykor
Sojourner
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:01 am
Location: usa

Postby Ykor » Thu Oct 04, 2001 6:43 pm

Note - Folur and crew don't respond much to these types of threads -- they hate potential competition...down the road.
Gormal
Sojourner
Posts: 3917
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: A Whale's Vagina
Contact:

Postby Gormal » Thu Oct 04, 2001 7:37 pm

Wow Ykor, that was the most pointless, blatant flame I've read on these forums. Yay for throwing in flames against people you don't like wherever you see an opportunity?

3nj0y because I am l33t and you are not Image
Grungar
Sojourner
Posts: 967
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Somewhere on the east coast, usually.
Contact:

Postby Grungar » Thu Oct 04, 2001 7:59 pm

I've been here 5 years now and I'm still a newbie Image
I've only hit the level 40 plateau twice, and never above 41. Disintegrate was a fun fun spell for this former 41 conjurer. The reasons I never got above 40 with my dwarf warrior (I got level 40 working on alignment, beating up some magicians in the Valley of Crushk outside of WD)...

You tell X 'Hey, heard you were lookin for a warrior. I'd be glad to offer my services.'

X tells you 'What's your hit/dam? What's your AC?'

You tell X 'Uhh, hit/dam is 27/27 and AC is -64. My skills are top notch, too.'

X tells you 'Forget it, your hit/dam is too low and your AC isn't low enough. You need to have 35/35 and -100 AC before you'll be of any use.'

You tell X 'But I sure do pack a mean axe! Doesn't that count for something?'

No response from X.

My biggest impediments were the time I had to play (not a whole heck of a lot), my lack of top notch eq and / or plats to buy the eq (can't go zoning to get the eq if you don't have the eq to go zoning), and the people not willing to take me along to learn the zones or anything. I'd be willing to try & lead a zone if I knew it Image

Anyways, not a whine, just one dwarf's opinions / experiences.

I was thinking while it's nice to start out with some decent (good for level 1!) equipment, it's even more fun to go take some baddie down and loot his corpse. I hit level 4 and was eternally banished from the newbie zone before I could get that spiffy looking trident from the goblin king or whatever he is waaaaaaaay out there. I levelled off one of his bodyguards Image My point is this: Someone said that eq shouldn't be put in the low level zones due to higher levels coming in and spanking them every boot and selling the eq to lowbies. Two solutions: I read a bit back when Cyric was asking for ideas about coding a new zone to keep high levels out... You could put a level restriction on the zone (not advisable, since many of the lowbie zones are near hometowns and lead into higher level zones) or you could make eq pop on every mob in the lowbie zone every time. Make it worth zero money, so people don't just go spank the mobs to sell the eq. ...But the eq will flood the MUD! It'll be worthless! Yeah, that's the point. Will lowbies buy from higher level players when they can go get the same exact eq from roughing up that blasted podling toddler for a pretty slick AC0 +1 hit ring or some such thing. Perhaps another idear might be to make some of the eq permanently lit- true newbies don't necessarily know about our night time stuff and how to prevent getting jumped in the dark after you run out of your free torches. I know it's not hard to find a cleric / druid / shaman bored in Waterdeep and ask for a perm light, but I'd assume most true newbies don't. I sure didn't.

Food is good too! Hell, I remember the first time I rolled up a conjie, I was walking around Waterdeep completely lost, getting into fights with dogs and knocked out by guards. I was hungry and thirsty, couldn't memorize my spell. I finally killed the dog! Yay, I thought, I can eat the dog. While perusing the commands available while knocked out, I found a command 'cannibalize'. At the time, I didn't realize it was a psionicist skill, nor did I know what a psionicist was. Sure, dogs are our pals, but I'm hungry, and it's dead. So I try to eat the dog.

<17h/17H 101v/101V> cannibalize dog

You don't know how!

<17h/17H 101v/101V> eat dog

You don't seem to have the dog.

So that frustrated me, and I quit, until some school chums told me about food and lights and not fighting in front of guards and all that good stuff. That's why I asked to be a newbie helper. I wouldn't want anyone to wander around for an hour, knocked out half the time and starving the other half, trying to eat a dead dog. I'd want them to experience the fun things, like the "You send an evil magician sprawling with a powerful bash!" message for the first time. Or when you kill something with a backstab and cackle madly as it makes gurgling noises and a big red puddle on the ground. You know, that sorta thing. The first time I went through the Fields of the Dead, I was swearing quitely to myself as my pulse was pounding. I had just been hit by an ice storm from an invisible foe, and some grinning skeleton kept appearing next to me, trying to kill me. By the time I got to the boulder, I had probably 4 hitpoints, but boy was I ever glad to be out of the Fields of the Dead. Experiences like that that stick with you for the rest of your mudding career. Not to say that I'd run a newbie through the Fields... That's just plain mean.

Anyways, enough rambling and back to the central theme of the thread. I've tried getting my friends into mudding, but haven't had much luck with it. The problem was that they were never on when I was on, they were completely baffled by the amount of text to read (they tried reading every word), and that sorta thing. We had a blast when we could group up and smite together, but other than that, they didn't much play, and eventually left. I do agree with most of the aforementioned ideas, especially the looking for group thing. I'd have that toggled all the time (I've been grouped maybe ten times in 27 levels). Oh oh oh, and Cherzra's idea of leaving stuff in the shops. A sword of venom may not do that much, but damn does it look cool to a newbie browsing. I speak from experience. That was one of the first things I got at Dren's with my conjie. Then someone gave me a royal Bloodstone dagger and explained that swords don't work that well for mages.

So uhhhhh yeah, if you gleaned some decent ideas out of all that rambling, good. I know they're in there somewhere. If not, you can make fun of me on the mud for trying to eat a dog Image

- Grungar "Oh HELL YEAH! I just bashed the Grandpod!" Forgefire
Dalar
Sojourner
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Dalar » Thu Oct 04, 2001 10:20 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ykor:
Note - Folur and crew don't respond much to these types of threads -- they hate potential competition...down the road.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Note - Ykor is a dumbass who can't spell Rocky backwards correctly (Roky)

I've already posted things on how to make lower levels easier and why during alpha. Hell i even suggested LFG a million times during alpha.

If we were soooo bent on destroying our 'competition', we wouldn't have helped omrec do dscales, and some of us wouldn't have even helped others with rares and some quests.

Thank you come again.
User avatar
Shevarash
FORGER CODER
Posts: 2944
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:01 am

Postby Shevarash » Fri Oct 05, 2001 11:08 am

Lovely place for flames.

Next time you feel like posting a flame in a thread as positive as this one, please think twice.




------------------
<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
taelin
Sojourner
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Contact:

Postby taelin » Fri Oct 05, 2001 11:57 pm

Personally I loved the low-mid game here for a long time... its a lot less fun with people leveling 10x faster than you. Back in the day when the current world was fairly new with zones either new or having been moved around, and common knowledge of equipment was much less extensive, there was a concept of average player.

Today the concept of average is useless. Some average players get handouts others tons of knowledge and some even get both. At the same time many average players get no help at all. There is nothing more disheartening as a newbie than talking and grouping with someone one day, seemingly on common groud, then logging in the next day to find themselves left behind in the wake of powerleveling.

Making friends on Sojourn isn't always easy. Especially for hometowns far from the cultural centers of DK and WD. When the rare other player seen in those areas shoots out of range, there is a profound sense of aloneness.

First thing I would look at is why level 1 requires more kills than level 2 and 3 combined.
Second thing I would look at is making it nearly impossible to fail at killing a mob of level 0-3 if you try for a few minutes... however you would like to do this will work (newbie hitroll bonus, increased chance to crit, guardian spirit that helps after a while... whatever, something to keep people from failing to kill the only exp possible)

Third, and most difficult, find a means to improve community where it need be, hometowns far and removed from the common gatherings. Unless you want to force newbies to play human or dark elven so they can be exposed to other players with near guarantee.

I could go on for a long while but I'm trying to stay focused on topic
Tae
Ykor
Sojourner
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:01 am
Location: usa

Postby Ykor » Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:19 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dalar:
[B] Note - Ykor is a dumbass who can't spell Rocky backwards correctly (Roky)

Yes he actually is a dumbass with and int of 6 - but that's another matter altogether

I've already posted things on how to make lower levels easier and why during alpha. Hell i even suggested LFG a million times during alpha.

If we were soooo bent on destroying our 'competition', we wouldn't have helped omrec do dscales, and some of us wouldn't have even helped others with rares and some quests.

Maybe it's just things I have heard in the past...nice to hear you have helped others at a higher level getting stuff done, and kudos for the LFG flag....but that doesnt actually help a newbie....how often do you take someone out to show them a lowbie zone --- a newbie that is? I try to once a week find someone mid to low range and show them around, maybe a piece of so so eq...what to watch out for...your generosity may hae expanded immensly for the mid to upwardly mobiles, but it's the newbie player base that will add to the overall flourishing of the mud - long term.

So take a break from your zone group - find someone 15 and under - dont smack a zone for them but show them something - pique their interests - show them a lowbie quest, a place to go where u can pseudo solo - Split Shield, Ako etc....

And by all means keep up the great work of helping others with their spell quests and such


Ykor - the dumbass
Vylare
Sojourner
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:01 am
Contact:

Postby Vylare » Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:25 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by taelin:
<B> First thing I would look at is why level 1 requires more kills than level 2 and 3 combined.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've wondered that myself, actually. Seems strange.
Mishre
Sojourner
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Flagstaff AZ US
Contact:

Postby Mishre » Sun Oct 07, 2001 5:59 am

Well.. Whats that newbie zone with mobs i hear about? i took a level 1 troll warrior in there and he could only kill a couple of things.. lack of mobs there i think..(i ran around in circles a lot though, so maybe there were more mobs somewhere i couldn't seem to find Image casters are just ridicilous starting.. they definetly need some way to level solo first few levels atleast (i don't think ppl should hop onto a new mud and have to start looking for a gruop right away) when i try a new mud i like to get a couple levels first to see how well i like the mud.. and im not gonna spend 5 hours doing it either... usually i explore and mess around for 1 or 2 hours.. if i don't get atleast 2 levels by that time i'll leave.. (unless something else about the mud really piques my interest)

right now i haven't been playing sojourn much all week... just taking a break.. kinda bored is all.. can't really put my finger on it.. just can't seem to motivate myself to explore mostly.. since i don't know what i should go kill now and i can't find anyone selling anything decent within my price range (about 1k p) Image so im just gonna take a break for a bit.. play another mud for awhile till some things change on sojourn.. then ill be back Image (changes? bards/elementalists/rangers/associations newbie fixes etc.. plus, more eq is always coming into the mud population so maybe i can start buying some stuff Image so.. ill see ya'll later..

Mishri *the ill-conceived*
Ihazim
Sojourner
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Ihazim » Sun Oct 07, 2001 2:47 pm

Has anyone ever played gemstone3? i played on there with a few people i knew and i know that what made us keep going was to get spanky eq from the stores. heres how it works. You would go into the store, and ask the shopkeeper to make a broadsword out of say mithril which granted a +5 bonus. Then 1 real life day later usually (depending on how hard iti s to work the metal and how much of it) you would return to recieve it. the bonuses went up to +20 for vultite, but you could get armor and shields and helmets made like this. The job system was also fun to do for newbies. Instead of killing, you would deliver letters to the various guilds for money and exp. There was also the furrier where practically every mob you killed, you could skin it for it's pelt or whatever and then return to the furrier to sell.

oh yea, once every couple months a merchant ship would come to town with *extra* spanky eq, i know everyone saved up for those things. sometimes the eq wasn't so spanky.

Those are some non original ideas ive seen that i really liked for newbies.

[This message has been edited by Ihazim (edited 10-07-2001).]
Dirjornso
Sojourner
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Dirjornso » Sun Oct 07, 2001 4:06 pm

Umm forget making easier for Newbies.. the point of being a newbie is to learn to survive on the mud. If we make it too easy We may find our mud full of characters that don't know much of the mud and continusly die because they haven't learned what to and not to attack.
Galorion
Sojourner
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Galorion » Sun Oct 07, 2001 6:29 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Umm forget making easier for Newbies.. the point of being a newbie is to learn to survive on the mud. If we make it too easy We may find our mud full of characters that don't know much of the mud and continusly die because they haven't learned what to and not to attack. </font>

The game SHOULD be easy for newbies (up to level 5 or so). Newbies are going to have enough of a learning curve trying to figure out the interface and game mechanics without having to spend an hour killing a single mob at level 1. Otherwise, people will get frustated and leave and we'll never see any truely new players.

There's plenty of time to learn about the world and how to survive after they have a chance to get their feet wet and make some sort of progress so that they can feel good about playing the game. Newbies need a chance to crawl before they can be expected to walk or run.
Grintor
Sojourner
Posts: 285
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 6:01 am
Location: san jose, ca, usa
Contact:

Postby Grintor » Sun Oct 07, 2001 6:39 pm

you make an interesting point dij, but that happens now. people are afraid to leave the hometowns or the cushy xp so they dont learn how to do the basics. then when they are asked to zone it's a disaster.

regardless of what does or does not change in regards to first learning the game here, if the new folks arent taught how it really plays the problem with continue.
ShaylaRose
Sojourner
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 5:01 am
Location: OR, USA

Postby ShaylaRose » Sun Oct 07, 2001 7:24 pm

Dirjornso, while I think you are trying to say that there is the need for new players to learn how to play and understand the world they have join, I disagree with the assessment that making it harder on newbies is the way to go.

I am one of the newest players around, have a great lack of area knowledge compared to many, but that doesn't necessarily make me a *bad* player. In fact, I often receive compliments for my enchantress play. Because I take pride and effort in my chosen profession, I am learning the class as well as possible, then hope to round out my education by learning new zones and areas. So far, so good Image

Furthermore, I have found that learning areas and zones to be much easier at higher level. I started mapping at around level 13 or 14. At levels 1 to 5, the fear factor and danger of losing what little I had was much too great to even make tentative forays into parts unknown. As I continue to rise in levels, I continue to explore with greater daring Image

So, in my little opinion, let players get going. Give them something to be proud of early on. Get them hooked! Image After that, lower the boom and show them that the world of Sojourn 3 is not to be taken too lightly Image

Hugs!
Shayla
- Aedyra the Elven Enchantress
Gort
Sojourner
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Ft. Collins, CO

Postby Gort » Mon Oct 08, 2001 3:41 pm

* Juan Sanchez Villalobos Ramirez rows across the loch singing *

B A L A N C E.... Balance
Altan
Sojourner
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Tx
Contact:

Postby Altan » Mon Oct 08, 2001 8:29 pm

Why can't there be a newbie zone, with, as everyone stated "better" newbie gear, That has a "guard" mob, similar to Splitshield, BUT, flag it so the "big" characters can't kill it.
Restrict it so that only say.. level 10 and under can go in the zone (area).
Besides, what reason would a 10+ character have for going into the area.
Also, I was gonna mention that I PERSONALLY think that some of the smaller mobs should track, I mean if your killing a human warrior and you run from him, well, hell, he's gonna chase ya. So what if the newbies are trying to kill a dog, and they run, well guess what, here comes Fido, and he's pissed! It MAY teach them a little about how to run, what the mobs will do, yadda yadda.
This is JUST an idea. Image

Altan ~Damn, how fars this guy track anyways!?~ Thalandor
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Postby kiryan » Tue Oct 09, 2001 2:02 am

newbies are a disaster in zones anyways. zoning and exping 100% different. Its the little things like, dont rescue on dragons, you cant bash mob x, dont bash the tank is bashing, dont wander, tog wimp 0, get your shieldpunch and rescue skill up, have fire protection and fly eq.

Making life easier in the beginning might actually encourage people to explore since dieing wouldnt be so terrible (still got to fix that permanent hp loss, if thats not broken i dont know what is). Life from 20-40 should be filled with exploring, but i doubt many newbies would be inclined to go exploring considering the difficulty it is to achieve exp/levels. Im not saying make death trivial, but if life was easier, new folks might explore more.
Kuurg
Sojourner
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Faang
Contact:

Postby Kuurg » Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:59 am

I disagree with Dij 100%. I think it should be easier for noobs. When I was looking for new muds, 1-5 or so were the levels I decided whether I was going to continue or not. If played that long, I was either hooked, or getting there.

This mud NEEDS new blood. I'm old, just about everyone I group with is old. New people, more spanks, more fun. We're becoming a bunch of curmudgeons. Upset about this that and the other but content to sit on our porches and gripe about it.

The only other thing I want is assoc pkill. or assoc wars. I may never see it, but it's on my wish list.




------------------
·Kuurg·
gordex
Sojourner
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 5:01 am
Contact:

Postby gordex » Tue Oct 09, 2001 5:33 am

I kinda agree with Kiryan on this one. I'm a pretty experienced player, and I wouldn't explore without !fail word of recall, cause I know how fast I could be smote. Exp is pretty fast at lower levels, but to get wrecked 30+ paces out of most hometowns makes noobs overly cautious, and usually too scared to walk very far. Go talk to the casino owner and see how long the conversation lasts :P.

Gordex - Gordex Travel Agency
Gort
Sojourner
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Ft. Collins, CO

Postby Gort » Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:02 pm

Kuurg,

Just get everyone together in arena, not war, or open assoc pkill, but you get the joys of whacking each other.


Toplack
Ykor
Sojourner
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:01 am
Location: usa

Postby Ykor » Tue Oct 09, 2001 5:31 pm

Here is an idea - you may cringe you may whine I dont FRICKIN care....

you want to help out newbies....change the mobs a tad for more hps at lower levels....then do this

a level 1 character REGARDLESS of class has +20 hit +20 dam

at each level up to 20 the hit dam is reduced by one...such that at level 20 yer back to whatever the hell yer eq gives u in bonuses....then at least yer near 21 for casters *ellies, totems whatever* and somewhat independent


so blah - sit and spin and think on that idea awhile

RAR

Y

Return to “S3 Gameplay Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests