I'm really tired of this class being downgraded to the point where we're invokers with fringe benefits. This post is calling for upgrades to lich class. That's right! Upgrades to a class many already think is powerful *gasp* how horrible.
1) Reduce rot casting time. It's way too goddamn long. Maybe it was an issue before rot feedback came in, but since then, there's no reason to have an 8 * damage spell (if quick chant succeeds) that's failable on the last star.
2) I don't want to live in Bloodstone. It's a human city. There are no drow for hundreds of miles. I did not grow up there, I was not born there, I have had absolutely nothing to do with any of the people there. I'm a drow!!! How stupid of me is it to live in a city where I can't even goddamn see?! Drow society honors their liches! They have their own houses, they teach at the academies and crap like that. Make me live in the drow hometown. Same arguments apply for yuan-ti, only moreso since they retain their physical appearance. A drow could be mistaken for a human if clothed properly, but a snake-man? Come on.
3) I don't want to have to eat, drink, or age. The help file even says I don't age. I've been told by Kia that these won't be implemented until I can't be ressed. Screw that. Excuse me, but this is a game, and death is the most inconsistent with reality thing this game has. If you want me to not play the game, just delete me, don't make me not be able to be ressed. Not eating, drinking, or aging is totally trivial, and it just would make me feel I am who I am, an undead Lich.
4) Raise ice tomb damage. It sucks. I never use it except on fire based mobs and wraithform mobs (and even then because it's the only thing I have that can hurt them.. so much for being master of the undead). The number of mobs that actually -cast- the spell fireshield, and not having it on them permanently, is virtually zero in any zone. Para effects? Only work when the mob could be killed by one force missile anyways. It's a 10th circle direct target damage spell! It's lower range of damage is near that of nerve dance, my 5th circle. Fear my 200 damage 10th circle lich-only spell that doesn't produce any effects on you whatsoever because the things it hurts are never encountered anyways!
-Todrael, done with writing 3 page essays on something that is totally obvious to the point of obsurdity and being told that it was being "debated" or would not be implemented
[This message has been edited by Todrael (edited 10-24-2001).]
Lich
As a lich, shouldn't you also have a phylactery containing a few of your vital organs? You then would have to hide this phylactery so that nobody will find it and destroy it, thus destroying you. I think Liches should have to pick a spot somewhere in the mud where they have to hide their phylactery. Then, if a mob or player stumbles across it, they can then blackmail said lich with threats of destroying their phylactery. Then, if the phylactery was destroyed or duckponded or what not, the lich would be utterly destroyed (deleted).
Yayaril
Yayaril
I agree with Todrael, but not for the same reasons.
Starting hometown means jack in the high end game. It is too easy to get around with fly and with transportation spells.
Where liches have gotten the shaft are with spells. Here is the order of significance in downgrades as I see it.
1.
Lich touch mutilated. Gained a little damage, lost major para and got minor para(would rather have no para). Also is no longer auto-slow. This is a gigantic downgrade as this spell was the best spell for liches. Now, it is so-so.
2.
Rot damage decreased, time doubled, feedback enabled. This basically cuts the usefullness of this spell by 75% and makes it down right dangerous to use doing exp because mage mobs will have pets and that means death to the user. At the VERY least feedback should not be on this spell. Lich touch feedback I can understand, area spells I cannot understand. Without psycial contact, there should be no feedback from undead.
3.
Ice tomb sucks now. It really really sucks. Don't need to say anything else about that.
4.
Wraiths no longer stone/pris/etc. I agreed with this when it went in, but it is another instance of downgrades to the class. Also ghouls don't have vamp bite.
Now, in Alpha-1 I was a propenent of downgrading liches. I suggested the higher cast time on rot and did not mind the huge downgrades in pets, but this has gone way too far. What you have now created is a quest for a class that is one of the top two most expensive quests in the game(depending on what items you value most) for a class that is only margianally better than the necro class. On top of that, if vampiric curse goes in, I think the necro class will be better than the lich class.
You guys really mucked this one up. I don't really see this changing anything, as you have a lot of other stuff to work on, but you basically took the fun out of the class by making the reward for a very difficult quest(and 4 more levels of 46-50 exp) next to meaningless. So fight on brother Tod, I agree with you on this one. We have been relegated to a sub-par nuker for zones with live mobs and relegated to zone sitters for zones with undead mobs.
We can't tank undead with our pets, we can't nuke undead with our spells, we can raise undead, but they do less than half their normal damage to undead mobs and they die twice as fast.
Downgrades are hard to swallow. I have taken most in stride, but this class has been utterly and completely demolished this wipe.
put vamp curse in and you make liches obsolete.
Tanras
Starting hometown means jack in the high end game. It is too easy to get around with fly and with transportation spells.
Where liches have gotten the shaft are with spells. Here is the order of significance in downgrades as I see it.
1.
Lich touch mutilated. Gained a little damage, lost major para and got minor para(would rather have no para). Also is no longer auto-slow. This is a gigantic downgrade as this spell was the best spell for liches. Now, it is so-so.
2.
Rot damage decreased, time doubled, feedback enabled. This basically cuts the usefullness of this spell by 75% and makes it down right dangerous to use doing exp because mage mobs will have pets and that means death to the user. At the VERY least feedback should not be on this spell. Lich touch feedback I can understand, area spells I cannot understand. Without psycial contact, there should be no feedback from undead.
3.
Ice tomb sucks now. It really really sucks. Don't need to say anything else about that.
4.
Wraiths no longer stone/pris/etc. I agreed with this when it went in, but it is another instance of downgrades to the class. Also ghouls don't have vamp bite.
Now, in Alpha-1 I was a propenent of downgrading liches. I suggested the higher cast time on rot and did not mind the huge downgrades in pets, but this has gone way too far. What you have now created is a quest for a class that is one of the top two most expensive quests in the game(depending on what items you value most) for a class that is only margianally better than the necro class. On top of that, if vampiric curse goes in, I think the necro class will be better than the lich class.
You guys really mucked this one up. I don't really see this changing anything, as you have a lot of other stuff to work on, but you basically took the fun out of the class by making the reward for a very difficult quest(and 4 more levels of 46-50 exp) next to meaningless. So fight on brother Tod, I agree with you on this one. We have been relegated to a sub-par nuker for zones with live mobs and relegated to zone sitters for zones with undead mobs.
We can't tank undead with our pets, we can't nuke undead with our spells, we can raise undead, but they do less than half their normal damage to undead mobs and they die twice as fast.
Downgrades are hard to swallow. I have taken most in stride, but this class has been utterly and completely demolished this wipe.
put vamp curse in and you make liches obsolete.
Tanras
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B>As a lich, shouldn't you also have a phylactery containing a few of your vital organs? You then would have to hide this phylactery so that nobody will find it and destroy it, thus destroying you. I think Liches should have to pick a spot somewhere in the mud where they have to hide their phylactery. Then, if a mob or player stumbles across it, they can then blackmail said lich with threats of destroying their phylactery. Then, if the phylactery was destroyed or duckponded or what not, the lich would be utterly destroyed (deleted).
Yayaril</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Heh, duckponding wouldn't destroy a phylactery. Dragon breath might, but that's something else...
I think we need more useful lich only spells. Not qualified to comment on state of lich touch et al. See the idea in Todrael (?)'s post about being too hard on dead lovers.
<B>As a lich, shouldn't you also have a phylactery containing a few of your vital organs? You then would have to hide this phylactery so that nobody will find it and destroy it, thus destroying you. I think Liches should have to pick a spot somewhere in the mud where they have to hide their phylactery. Then, if a mob or player stumbles across it, they can then blackmail said lich with threats of destroying their phylactery. Then, if the phylactery was destroyed or duckponded or what not, the lich would be utterly destroyed (deleted).
Yayaril</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Heh, duckponding wouldn't destroy a phylactery. Dragon breath might, but that's something else...
I think we need more useful lich only spells. Not qualified to comment on state of lich touch et al. See the idea in Todrael (?)'s post about being too hard on dead lovers.
Couple points to clarify for Tanras:
Lich touch lost minor para. It is now just damage, with a small chance (on anything of consequential level) to slow. Basically, it's a beltyn's that can't be cast on undead.
Rot does not give feedback damage from undead. What feedback meant in this context is when two people are casting it at the same time, they lose 50% of their health, and only one completes the spell. Two liches can't rot in the same group any more.
Each downgrade might seem fine in and of itself. Taken as a whole, the class has been nuked.
And to those that think outcast doesn't matter: Yeah right!! You have any idea how often people kill in hometowns? I have to mention that I'm outcast someplace virtually every single day. And going through Gloomhaven, a city I'm outcast in, is basically the only walkable route to the underdark. Humans won't be able to go to Waterdeep any more. People say it's trivial, but it really does effect your every day mudlife quite a bit.
Four years ago, my friend asked me if I could have a level 50 of any class, what would it be. I said Lich. The theme, the power, the prestige. I'm a bit unhappy now to see that now I'm only left with prestige. People ask me about lich constantly. Nearly all of them ask me why we suck so much after I tell them about our spells and abilities. Heh.
-Todrael, Casting: rot ****************
Lich touch lost minor para. It is now just damage, with a small chance (on anything of consequential level) to slow. Basically, it's a beltyn's that can't be cast on undead.
Rot does not give feedback damage from undead. What feedback meant in this context is when two people are casting it at the same time, they lose 50% of their health, and only one completes the spell. Two liches can't rot in the same group any more.
Each downgrade might seem fine in and of itself. Taken as a whole, the class has been nuked.
And to those that think outcast doesn't matter: Yeah right!! You have any idea how often people kill in hometowns? I have to mention that I'm outcast someplace virtually every single day. And going through Gloomhaven, a city I'm outcast in, is basically the only walkable route to the underdark. Humans won't be able to go to Waterdeep any more. People say it's trivial, but it really does effect your every day mudlife quite a bit.
Four years ago, my friend asked me if I could have a level 50 of any class, what would it be. I said Lich. The theme, the power, the prestige. I'm a bit unhappy now to see that now I'm only left with prestige. People ask me about lich constantly. Nearly all of them ask me why we suck so much after I tell them about our spells and abilities. Heh.
-Todrael, Casting: rot ****************
Heh, I played here in Soj2 for a long time, till invokers started getting the shaft. I came back in 3 because I wanted to be a lich. I slowed down when Necros started getting shafted, and finally it's complete, necro or lich, both have been shafted. Anyway, I think it's time for me to move on. For those of you who are interested in playing an excellent game, try Dark Age of Camelot, I'm in the Albion realm on server Palomides, and ofcourse, I'm strutting around as Ubek...etc www.darkageofcamelot.com
Not gonna comment on the spells, but what is really silly is the hometown at Bloodstone. It is a human hometown afterall, I don't understand why they would let drows/yuan-ti liches in there (or any liches at all). And I don't understand why a drow or yuan-ti would choose to go live in a human hometown so far from what they know...
The daylight issue for drow liches in Bloodstone is also silly. Definately I think this needs to be reconsidered.
But then again, in a MUD that no longer involves role playing and almost discourages it, maybe this situation isn't that odd afterall.
-Kaede
The daylight issue for drow liches in Bloodstone is also silly. Definately I think this needs to be reconsidered.
But then again, in a MUD that no longer involves role playing and almost discourages it, maybe this situation isn't that odd afterall.
-Kaede
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