Yesterday I was the first to find Zog again. While I'm arranging for ppl to come, two minutes later arrives Veldrex and VOILA! Ten seconds later goodies throw a Moonwell, and they hop on out while I am still trying to find a way to get people to me. Daylight, no psi, people in different places, etc. That's the third time this happens out of the four times I found him. Goodies are swamped with seashell necklaces, while evils have like a grand total of 4.
1) Make Zog !locate
2) load him somewhere else. He's 10 seconds away from 3 inns now. Throw him on the beach near SG one time, on Neshkal Trail another, and on the pass between Dusk Road and BGR another. It's a caravan right? The way he loads now, is no fun. It's not like you have to run up to ZK or to the end of the brainstem tunnel like other rares, he's smack in the middle of a highway.
3) How about an evil moonwell?
evil well?
-
kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
goodie campers (ok we all camp im only half serious about this and posting since i touched on this subject in another thread). what reason is there to be logged out in vipers tongue cept to camp zog? But thats legal camping right because its a different zone. Anyhow another useless post by kiryan. Congratulations ive wasted 15 seconds of your time.
#add kiryanpostcount 1
On the main subject.
Personally, I think the problem with seashell is its unbalanced. 2/2 on the neck plus nosummon? hell 0/2 no summon makes it worth having. 2/2 makes it godlike, especially with the amount of hitroll that is desired. Please dont move it, if you do ill never get one, because i certainly wont be running all over toril searching for zog.
And to touch on Cherzra's main points... Evils cant get seashell because basically, goodies are much more prolific (meaning they can gather groups really fast then well them in) and they dont have to deal with blindness.
Cherzra may find seashell, but if its day, he cant get any reinforcements for up to 12 minutes later. Did I mention Valkryie for invasion loads in a day light room? Its cool to be the first person to tree but not know if invasion loaded for 12 minutes.
I don't think evils need well, but it is a decided disadvantage, and puts evils on uneven ground when competing against time. Just like daylight. I'm not saying it needs to be changed, just stating what I think is the status quo.
Obviously some of us are frustrated with not being able to get seashell, perhaps it has more to do with our towncenter being 50 rooms a way while wd is a good 150 rooms away over a ferry (embarrasing). Or because the only reason goodies rent in VT is to hunt zog. Maybe its because its such godlike equipment. Probably its because were jealous.
#add kiryanpostcount 1
On the main subject.
Personally, I think the problem with seashell is its unbalanced. 2/2 on the neck plus nosummon? hell 0/2 no summon makes it worth having. 2/2 makes it godlike, especially with the amount of hitroll that is desired. Please dont move it, if you do ill never get one, because i certainly wont be running all over toril searching for zog.
And to touch on Cherzra's main points... Evils cant get seashell because basically, goodies are much more prolific (meaning they can gather groups really fast then well them in) and they dont have to deal with blindness.
Cherzra may find seashell, but if its day, he cant get any reinforcements for up to 12 minutes later. Did I mention Valkryie for invasion loads in a day light room? Its cool to be the first person to tree but not know if invasion loaded for 12 minutes.
I don't think evils need well, but it is a decided disadvantage, and puts evils on uneven ground when competing against time. Just like daylight. I'm not saying it needs to be changed, just stating what I think is the status quo.
Obviously some of us are frustrated with not being able to get seashell, perhaps it has more to do with our towncenter being 50 rooms a way while wd is a good 150 rooms away over a ferry (embarrasing). Or because the only reason goodies rent in VT is to hunt zog. Maybe its because its such godlike equipment. Probably its because were jealous.
Taken from "help troll":
Warning: As one of the six evil races on Sojourn, trolls are
extremely difficult to play and face many hardships. Their hometown
has been specifically designed to make life hell, and death waits
around every corner. Trolls will most certainly encounter situations
that would be deemed "unfair" to any of the non-evil races. We did
this to create a new challenge for those advances players who have
"beaten" the challenge of life on the surface world and are looking
for something more difficult. You should NOT play a troll unless you
are a *very* advanced player and are used to the Sojourn style of
MUDding, or are willing to face the hardships without complaint, as it
is NOT easy.
Corth
Warning: As one of the six evil races on Sojourn, trolls are
extremely difficult to play and face many hardships. Their hometown
has been specifically designed to make life hell, and death waits
around every corner. Trolls will most certainly encounter situations
that would be deemed "unfair" to any of the non-evil races. We did
this to create a new challenge for those advances players who have
"beaten" the challenge of life on the surface world and are looking
for something more difficult. You should NOT play a troll unless you
are a *very* advanced player and are used to the Sojourn style of
MUDding, or are willing to face the hardships without complaint, as it
is NOT easy.
Corth
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>Taken from "help troll":
Warning: As one of the six evil races on Sojourn, trolls are
extremely difficult to play and face many hardships. Their hometown
has been specifically designed to make life hell, and death waits
around every corner. Trolls will most certainly encounter situations
that would be deemed "unfair" to any of the non-evil races. We did
this to create a new challenge for those advances players who have
"beaten" the challenge of life on the surface world and are looking
for something more difficult. You should NOT play a troll unless you
are a *very* advanced player and are used to the Sojourn style of
MUDding, or are willing to face the hardships without complaint, as it
is NOT easy.
Corth</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
retard.
------------------
·Kuurg·
<B>Taken from "help troll":
Warning: As one of the six evil races on Sojourn, trolls are
extremely difficult to play and face many hardships. Their hometown
has been specifically designed to make life hell, and death waits
around every corner. Trolls will most certainly encounter situations
that would be deemed "unfair" to any of the non-evil races. We did
this to create a new challenge for those advances players who have
"beaten" the challenge of life on the surface world and are looking
for something more difficult. You should NOT play a troll unless you
are a *very* advanced player and are used to the Sojourn style of
MUDding, or are willing to face the hardships without complaint, as it
is NOT easy.
Corth</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
retard.
------------------
·Kuurg·
Taken from help goodie:
Warning: goodies are extremely easy to play. They have over triple the numbers of evils and are not limited by their sight, numbers, means of transportation and classes available. Goods have access to all the classes evils do save one, and have four unique classes themselves. Also, they have the best tanks and psis/liches combined into one; druids. Despite claims by staff that evils and goodies are now equal, evils can scrouge together one zone group if they are lucky, while goods seem to have no such problem. Even if evils mostly find rares first, as goodie you don't have to worry because evils have A) usually don't have people on to form a group B) mostly have no form of transportation to get said group to a location C) even if they have a) and b) chances are they have to wait for dark 12 mins.
All jokes aside, I would suggest not loading Zog where he does now, but instead placing his caravan anywhere on the SG coast road / grove, Neshkal or the trail from dusk to BGR. Unlike with other zone-specific rares, this would work for him since he's a marauding bandit. And change him to !locate.
Warning: goodies are extremely easy to play. They have over triple the numbers of evils and are not limited by their sight, numbers, means of transportation and classes available. Goods have access to all the classes evils do save one, and have four unique classes themselves. Also, they have the best tanks and psis/liches combined into one; druids. Despite claims by staff that evils and goodies are now equal, evils can scrouge together one zone group if they are lucky, while goods seem to have no such problem. Even if evils mostly find rares first, as goodie you don't have to worry because evils have A) usually don't have people on to form a group B) mostly have no form of transportation to get said group to a location C) even if they have a) and b) chances are they have to wait for dark 12 mins.
All jokes aside, I would suggest not loading Zog where he does now, but instead placing his caravan anywhere on the SG coast road / grove, Neshkal or the trail from dusk to BGR. Unlike with other zone-specific rares, this would work for him since he's a marauding bandit. And change him to !locate.
In Corth's defense, if the imms are still promoting the idea that evils be harder to play than goodies, than this is going to be one of those drawbacks.
I remember someone mentioned awhile back that it was too easy to level evils, but hard to zone? I'm not 100% on that quote, but I remember something like that.
Are you saying Veldrex stoel the kill out from under you? Is it first person to the mob or first group to the mob? (I honestly can't remember). I thought if you were sitting on mob and getting a group in nobody else could hop in and steal your kill.
So it's easy for goodies to get seashell, are you saying there aren't items out there that are nigh-impossible to get as a goodie? And I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure there isn't as much !evilrace equipment as there is !goodrace.
E
I remember someone mentioned awhile back that it was too easy to level evils, but hard to zone? I'm not 100% on that quote, but I remember something like that.
Are you saying Veldrex stoel the kill out from under you? Is it first person to the mob or first group to the mob? (I honestly can't remember). I thought if you were sitting on mob and getting a group in nobody else could hop in and steal your kill.
So it's easy for goodies to get seashell, are you saying there aren't items out there that are nigh-impossible to get as a goodie? And I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure there isn't as much !evilrace equipment as there is !goodrace.
E
Yeah, I forget if its the first group or first person from a group.. I think its first group that can kill the mob gets to go.
But if cherz had a group that was ready but just waiting for transportation I probably would've let them take zog.
But then again, I dunno.. evils keep managing to kill the demi ultra-rare beholder before we can even get a few people to ep *snicker* :P
But if cherz had a group that was ready but just waiting for transportation I probably would've let them take zog.
But then again, I dunno.. evils keep managing to kill the demi ultra-rare beholder before we can even get a few people to ep *snicker* :P
This is a very dangerous thread. We have to be very careful to keep away from flames and such. I charge everyone to please be on their best behavior. See above posts by Kuurg and Yayaril for an example of how -not- to be taken seriously in any fashion.
That being said, moonwell vs. ethereal travel and daylight is certainly quite advantageous to the good raced characters. This is only an issue, however, when the race is 10 minutes or less. This means that it's generally only at boot, which is of course the time that it matters the most.
I happened to be on at the time Cherzra was talking about, our group was up to 4 people and growing, but it had just turned daylight, etc. I don't believe he talked with the goodie group at all. Communication is a large tool that no one seems to think about in times like this. Sending tells to other groups asking them what they're doing, for little snippets of knowledge about a current zone situation, or to resolve issues that might have arisen is hardly ever ignored, and often answered with polite and informative responses.
Communication = good. Cherzra could have asked them politely if he could be given time for daylight to go away so his group could get there, and the goodie group could have said yes or no depending on how nice they were feeling. The only downside to this method is that you are leaving it to the goodness of human nature, which isn't exactly a reliable trait amongst our fellows.
Druids have quite a bit of utility that evil races do not have access to, just as rangers and paladins have quite a bit of extra power for the 'fighter' classes. Shev posted in another thread somewhere that something new was coming for evils... maybe this will help balance things a bit more. I don't believe it is the intention of the gods to make evils more 'challenging' in stupid ways that are just annoyances until pressed as in the above situation.
-Todrael
[This message has been edited by Todrael (edited 11-29-2001).]
That being said, moonwell vs. ethereal travel and daylight is certainly quite advantageous to the good raced characters. This is only an issue, however, when the race is 10 minutes or less. This means that it's generally only at boot, which is of course the time that it matters the most.
I happened to be on at the time Cherzra was talking about, our group was up to 4 people and growing, but it had just turned daylight, etc. I don't believe he talked with the goodie group at all. Communication is a large tool that no one seems to think about in times like this. Sending tells to other groups asking them what they're doing, for little snippets of knowledge about a current zone situation, or to resolve issues that might have arisen is hardly ever ignored, and often answered with polite and informative responses.
Communication = good. Cherzra could have asked them politely if he could be given time for daylight to go away so his group could get there, and the goodie group could have said yes or no depending on how nice they were feeling. The only downside to this method is that you are leaving it to the goodness of human nature, which isn't exactly a reliable trait amongst our fellows.
Druids have quite a bit of utility that evil races do not have access to, just as rangers and paladins have quite a bit of extra power for the 'fighter' classes. Shev posted in another thread somewhere that something new was coming for evils... maybe this will help balance things a bit more. I don't believe it is the intention of the gods to make evils more 'challenging' in stupid ways that are just annoyances until pressed as in the above situation.
-Todrael
[This message has been edited by Todrael (edited 11-29-2001).]
Corth: note that help drow also has that message. It's always been a source of great amusement to me. "Their hometown has been specifically designed to make life hell, and death waits around every corner." Hehehe. Dubloth Kyor is the most newbie friendly hometown in the entire mud. It's probably also the safest and hardest to die in. The message is obviously long out of date, referring to the days there were no clerics, enchanters, invokers, etc on the evil side. We all know how long it takes to get help files updated, on average.
-Todrael
[This message has been edited by Todrael (edited 11-29-2001).]
-Todrael
[This message has been edited by Todrael (edited 11-29-2001).]
Let me rephrase what the main message was I wanted to convey, before this turns into a flamewar
Zog is too easy to find, it takes absolutely no effort, he can be twinked quite easily too. Unlike most other rares you can locate him and he can be found without going out of your way, making the reward great and the effort small.
Cherzra suggestion: load his caravan at different places that are out of the usual way people go, places like the Neshkal trail and the other locations I mentioned above.
Zog is too easy to find, it takes absolutely no effort, he can be twinked quite easily too. Unlike most other rares you can locate him and he can be found without going out of your way, making the reward great and the effort small.
Cherzra suggestion: load his caravan at different places that are out of the usual way people go, places like the Neshkal trail and the other locations I mentioned above.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B>This is a very dangerous thread. We have to be very careful to keep away from flames and such. I charge everyone to please be on their best behavior. See above posts by Kuurg and Yayaril for an example of how -not- to be taken seriously in any fashion.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Take thy beak from out my heart.
Corth's post bore no relevance to the thread.
I struck a blow for thread integrity!
Why must one strive to be taken seriously? Personally, I scan long threads for posts by Yaya. The guy sold his soul for a truly wicked sense of humor.
If you want honest opinions, I'd say get rid of ARGH! TOO MUCH DAYLIGHT! It doesn't improve gameplay. It's not fun. It's another one of those time wasters we all dislike.
------------------
·Kuurg·
[This message has been edited by Kuurg (edited 11-29-2001).]
<B>This is a very dangerous thread. We have to be very careful to keep away from flames and such. I charge everyone to please be on their best behavior. See above posts by Kuurg and Yayaril for an example of how -not- to be taken seriously in any fashion.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Take thy beak from out my heart.
Corth's post bore no relevance to the thread.
I struck a blow for thread integrity!
Why must one strive to be taken seriously? Personally, I scan long threads for posts by Yaya. The guy sold his soul for a truly wicked sense of humor.
If you want honest opinions, I'd say get rid of ARGH! TOO MUCH DAYLIGHT! It doesn't improve gameplay. It's not fun. It's another one of those time wasters we all dislike.
------------------
·Kuurg·
[This message has been edited by Kuurg (edited 11-29-2001).]
snicker.. I knew I'd get a reaction for that..
Heh, would just like to point out that I haven't grouped with many druids this wipe at all... and still somehow manage to kill a rare once in a while. I think the evils probably need a couple more illusionists, and there won't be much of a problem anymore.
As far as the daylight thing, I have always been against it. Another one of those situations where RP is enforced upon you at the expense of gameplay and fun. I'm sure most of the people that play underdark races would gladly trade their ultravision in for !daylight blindness.
Corth
[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 11-29-2001).]
Heh, would just like to point out that I haven't grouped with many druids this wipe at all... and still somehow manage to kill a rare once in a while. I think the evils probably need a couple more illusionists, and there won't be much of a problem anymore.
As far as the daylight thing, I have always been against it. Another one of those situations where RP is enforced upon you at the expense of gameplay and fun. I'm sure most of the people that play underdark races would gladly trade their ultravision in for !daylight blindness.
Corth
[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 11-29-2001).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>I'm sure most of the people that play underdark races would gladly trade their ultravision in for !daylight blindness.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, never in my life.
Ultravision rocks, and is the sole reason why I play drow. Its simply the most overpowerful attribute to have for most fun zones.
/Jegzed
<B>I'm sure most of the people that play underdark races would gladly trade their ultravision in for !daylight blindness.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, never in my life.
Ultravision rocks, and is the sole reason why I play drow. Its simply the most overpowerful attribute to have for most fun zones.
/Jegzed
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>Zog is too easy to find, it takes absolutely no effort, he can be twinked quite easily too. Unlike most other rares you can locate him and he can be found without going out of your way, making the reward great and the effort small.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd totally agree then, especially for a +2 +2 necklace. I've been on a few Zog runs and the fight was amazingly easy. I'm not shouting downgrade, but I think Cherz is right, make him a lil less accessable.
E
<B>Zog is too easy to find, it takes absolutely no effort, he can be twinked quite easily too. Unlike most other rares you can locate him and he can be found without going out of your way, making the reward great and the effort small.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd totally agree then, especially for a +2 +2 necklace. I've been on a few Zog runs and the fight was amazingly easy. I'm not shouting downgrade, but I think Cherz is right, make him a lil less accessable.
E
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>Jez:
Well, since I have never played a high level underdark race, I imagine you would know better So then, i have to ask this question: If ultravision is so powerful, doesn't it make up for the fact that its more difficult for the evils to assemble at a rare?
Corth</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It makes up for the fact that jot and tf is a pain in the ass
/Jegzed
<B>Jez:
Well, since I have never played a high level underdark race, I imagine you would know better
So then, i have to ask this question: If ultravision is so powerful, doesn't it make up for the fact that its more difficult for the evils to assemble at a rare?Corth</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It makes up for the fact that jot and tf is a pain in the ass
/Jegzed
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zen:
<B>Even in D&D drow aren't completely blind but are at a disadvantage in daylight. (Correct me if I'm wrong plz).
Why not give drow a penlty to hit and make it so they cannont see into adjacent rooms in the daylight?
-Zen</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally Agree and think that is an excellent Idea.. no looking into distant rooms and like a -4 to hit would be more realistic than absolute blindness
<B>Even in D&D drow aren't completely blind but are at a disadvantage in daylight. (Correct me if I'm wrong plz).
Why not give drow a penlty to hit and make it so they cannont see into adjacent rooms in the daylight?
-Zen</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally Agree and think that is an excellent Idea.. no looking into distant rooms and like a -4 to hit would be more realistic than absolute blindness
Hm, I've never played a high level squid, but if I can remember back to playing high-lvl evil on Toril, can't squids shift nearly anywhere? I mean, you can shift from UD to Prime to Astral... at one point they could shift right into Jot too, though I'd be surprised if that is still true. Shift transports one person at a time, but they can go from anywhere to nearly anywhere. Can only be used indoors/underground, or anywhere else during the 12 hours of night time.
Moonwell works on prime only. Doesn't/shouldn't work in UD or anywhere off-Prime. Druid must maintain neutral alignment (most annoying of the three to maintain). Moonwell can transport an entire group in one cast regardless of the time of day, and allows players to move themselves through the portal, back and forth, for a limited time.
Moonwells are obviously superior to shift when both are used on the Prime Material plane. For UD or off-plane use, moonwell doesn't work at all and shift is obviously superior. I'd say the off-plane abilities of shift are a very significant function that goodies don't enjoy, and one which would make many things easier for a leader. From what I've seen, the benefits and drawbacks of both are pretty well balanced, and I'd conclude that evils don't need moonwell just as goodies don't need shift.
On the other hand, I heartily agree with Cherzra that the central issue is the way rares work, and not ultravision or transportation. I think that all rares that are designed to be "used up" (killed or poofed when quested, as opposed to standard information mobs) should spawn randomly through the first X hours of reboot, where X is the average up-time of the mud (maybe 24hrs). Greycloak is the template, and I can't think of any reason not to extend that around the MUD. Granted, the system isn't so horribly broken that it should jump to the top of the coding queue, but in an ideal and perfectly balanced world, I'm pretty sure it would work somewhat differently.
Moonwell works on prime only. Doesn't/shouldn't work in UD or anywhere off-Prime. Druid must maintain neutral alignment (most annoying of the three to maintain). Moonwell can transport an entire group in one cast regardless of the time of day, and allows players to move themselves through the portal, back and forth, for a limited time.
Moonwells are obviously superior to shift when both are used on the Prime Material plane. For UD or off-plane use, moonwell doesn't work at all and shift is obviously superior. I'd say the off-plane abilities of shift are a very significant function that goodies don't enjoy, and one which would make many things easier for a leader. From what I've seen, the benefits and drawbacks of both are pretty well balanced, and I'd conclude that evils don't need moonwell just as goodies don't need shift.
On the other hand, I heartily agree with Cherzra that the central issue is the way rares work, and not ultravision or transportation. I think that all rares that are designed to be "used up" (killed or poofed when quested, as opposed to standard information mobs) should spawn randomly through the first X hours of reboot, where X is the average up-time of the mud (maybe 24hrs). Greycloak is the template, and I can't think of any reason not to extend that around the MUD. Granted, the system isn't so horribly broken that it should jump to the top of the coding queue, but in an ideal and perfectly balanced world, I'm pretty sure it would work somewhat differently.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B>Actually Mplor, shift only works on same plane. You can't shift from prime to astral etc. You have to Gate/rift to same plane first.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And once in those places, if you have an illusionist, it's easier to fold than shift each person.
------------------
·Kuurg·
<B>Actually Mplor, shift only works on same plane. You can't shift from prime to astral etc. You have to Gate/rift to same plane first.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And once in those places, if you have an illusionist, it's easier to fold than shift each person.
------------------
·Kuurg·
What is comes down to is that playing either a good race or an evil race has advantages and disadvantages over the other. If your going to assume that the two sides are supposed to be roughly equal as far as benefits (contrary to the helpfile, but yes they are old), then you need to take into account your advantages before complaining when you are disadvantaged.
One of the problems Cherzra has with rare hunting is that the UD races can't see in the light, so it hurts his ability to assemble a group quickly. On the other hand, these same races enjoy the ability to see in the dark. An advantage, and a disadvantage.
Evils dont get rangers or antis.. but on the other hand, no goodie class tanks as well as a troll, or can bash effreeti like ogres. And to tell you the truth, I'd say a well equipped ogre hits harder than your typical ranger too.
Its all give and take.. But if the evils are going to request new skills etc, because they have an "unfair" disadvantage compared to goodies in a certain area, they are going to have to explain how they're own advantages don't make up for it.
Corth
[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 11-29-2001).]
One of the problems Cherzra has with rare hunting is that the UD races can't see in the light, so it hurts his ability to assemble a group quickly. On the other hand, these same races enjoy the ability to see in the dark. An advantage, and a disadvantage.
Evils dont get rangers or antis.. but on the other hand, no goodie class tanks as well as a troll, or can bash effreeti like ogres. And to tell you the truth, I'd say a well equipped ogre hits harder than your typical ranger too.
Its all give and take.. But if the evils are going to request new skills etc, because they have an "unfair" disadvantage compared to goodies in a certain area, they are going to have to explain how they're own advantages don't make up for it.
Corth
[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 11-29-2001).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
but on the other hand, no goodie class tanks as well as a troll,....
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ROFL....Paladins own trolls in arena, especially if they have Ambran stone up. If stone is down, they're uberwussies....
But this is not the time nor the place to discuss that thread on here. Just pointing out to ya Corth that you gotta see both in action.
Deathmagnet
[This message has been edited by Yasden (edited 11-29-2001).]
but on the other hand, no goodie class tanks as well as a troll,....
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ROFL....Paladins own trolls in arena, especially if they have Ambran stone up. If stone is down, they're uberwussies....
But this is not the time nor the place to discuss that thread on here. Just pointing out to ya Corth that you gotta see both in action.
Deathmagnet
[This message has been edited by Yasden (edited 11-29-2001).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yasden:
ROFL....Paladins own trolls in arena, especially if they have Ambran stone up. If stone is down, they're uberwussies....</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yas:
How often are you unable to get a stone for your troll in a zone group?
Corth
[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 11-29-2001).]
ROFL....Paladins own trolls in arena, especially if they have Ambran stone up. If stone is down, they're uberwussies....</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yas:
How often are you unable to get a stone for your troll in a zone group?
Corth
[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 11-29-2001).]
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kiryan
- Sojourner
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You could read this thread as follows.
lets change x so i can have a chance at getting piece of eq y.
good points of this thread
1. maybe someone should review zog/seashells for risk vs reward
2. maybe we should think of someway to put evils and goods on more equal footing when it comes to transporting / organizing groups.
agree todrael, DK is FAR easier than any other hometown. its relatively central (to the evil world), has tons of exp mobs, its dark everywhere, has zone level eq, and its small and easy to learn. Im not sure where were going with this, but that help file corth stated is for trolls. in general, evil is as easy to play as good with minor exception such as the daylight thing, some of the hometowns, and those forkign paladins.
Still the advocate for different things that are close to balanced rather than carbon copies.
lets change x so i can have a chance at getting piece of eq y.
good points of this thread
1. maybe someone should review zog/seashells for risk vs reward
2. maybe we should think of someway to put evils and goods on more equal footing when it comes to transporting / organizing groups.
agree todrael, DK is FAR easier than any other hometown. its relatively central (to the evil world), has tons of exp mobs, its dark everywhere, has zone level eq, and its small and easy to learn. Im not sure where were going with this, but that help file corth stated is for trolls. in general, evil is as easy to play as good with minor exception such as the daylight thing, some of the hometowns, and those forkign paladins.
Still the advocate for different things that are close to balanced rather than carbon copies.
<B>ROFL....Paladins own trolls in arena, especially if they have Ambran stone up. If stone is down, they're uberwussies....
</B>
i've played with cherzra a few times in arena, headbutt hands me my ass. I can scrape out a fight if i layhands, and i last a little longer when i'm mounted. otherwise i'm owned.
</B>
i've played with cherzra a few times in arena, headbutt hands me my ass. I can scrape out a fight if i layhands, and i last a little longer when i'm mounted. otherwise i'm owned.
My answer. Whaaaa I wanna be able to bash everything in the game and get there fast too. Pick one, play it, live with it.
I truly think Sojourn is 2 different games. Goods and Evils. You all play like its competition. Deal with what you have and move on. I could whine that goods have no equal to Drow or Ogre, but I really don't care that we don't. We don't get Invokes that can be setting and nuke. So what. If I understand correctly, the only reason evil has a prob moving is they are dayblind. DUH. I'm sure that all of the evils who lead anything knew that going into it. Cope with it.
If the disad's truly outweighed the Ad's, all you powerplayers wouldnt be evils.
[This message has been edited by Salen (edited 11-30-2001).]
I truly think Sojourn is 2 different games. Goods and Evils. You all play like its competition. Deal with what you have and move on. I could whine that goods have no equal to Drow or Ogre, but I really don't care that we don't. We don't get Invokes that can be setting and nuke. So what. If I understand correctly, the only reason evil has a prob moving is they are dayblind. DUH. I'm sure that all of the evils who lead anything knew that going into it. Cope with it.
If the disad's truly outweighed the Ad's, all you powerplayers wouldnt be evils.
[This message has been edited by Salen (edited 11-30-2001).]
dude, jegzed is a genuis. u guys all fell for it. you took his bait. now u goodies are going to complain to gods to downgrade ultra into something like infra. which i will say is his intention all along. he is just trying to get back at me when i mock, mock, mock him when it's daylight and he can't response. he is powerless to defend himself from my endless advances. he's unable to say stop! no more!
ps sorry jegzed. but i had to let the goodies know your sneaky reverse psychology ways.
ps sorry jegzed. but i had to let the goodies know your sneaky reverse psychology ways.
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Baikalisan
- Sojourner
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You guys have completly destroyed the reason for his post in the first place...
It was one particular situation that he was offering a solution on. Make Zog !locate and/or Make Zog load in 2 or 3 different places instead of the same every time.
As for the rest of your posts about how goodies are better than evils or evils are better than goodies... Take a deep breath and blow it out your ass... compared to goodies evils are getting rode hard and put away wet... but hey we are for the most part..not whining about it so you take your little paladorks and shove em
Enjoy.
It was one particular situation that he was offering a solution on. Make Zog !locate and/or Make Zog load in 2 or 3 different places instead of the same every time.
As for the rest of your posts about how goodies are better than evils or evils are better than goodies... Take a deep breath and blow it out your ass... compared to goodies evils are getting rode hard and put away wet... but hey we are for the most part..not whining about it so you take your little paladorks and shove em
Enjoy.
So basically Cherzra is mad because he didn't get to kill a rare. Even if evils had a well-type spell, it still wouldn't let them get people out of UD, as the whole area is pretty much !well, and secondly, even if the blind by day evils were on the surface, most probably wouldn't see the well unless they were indoors, or the person sending the well probably would be blind, so wouldn't see the people to send a well to them. I fail to see how this would help him get his rare load mob any better. Wanna find and kill Zog and other surface rare load mobs on a regular basis? Play a goodie. Want to get nice spanky UD rare load mobs on a regular basis? Play an evil.
Lyt
Lyt
Point of this thread: move Zog cause he's in the STUPIDEST place. Yes, it may have been a good place for the first month he loaded when nobody knew, but now it's DUMB. Everyone knows. Even my mom knows. People rent in VT just to look for him after a crash. NO EFFORT. TWINKABLE. 100000 IN THE GAME ALREADY. Now if you had to walk 30 minutes to the end of dusk road, the depths of UD, the graveyard in ZK or wherever else it would actually mean something and it wouldn't be cheezed every boot. How may of those rares that are far away are there in the game? Yeah, a fraction of the seashells. Like 1/50th. They mean something. You want something nice? Go look for it, it shouldn't be right there under your nose as you enter the game.
[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 12-01-2001).]
[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 12-01-2001).]
Hey, just to clarify something, seashells are not 2/2 but 1/2.
I agree with cherzra about zog.... he's easy to twink and he should (at the least) have more places he can pop. ALL rares (if they dont have random zone pops) should have a system like GC. GC is the perfect template for all rares.
my 2c
Nitania
I agree with cherzra about zog.... he's easy to twink and he should (at the least) have more places he can pop. ALL rares (if they dont have random zone pops) should have a system like GC. GC is the perfect template for all rares.
my 2c
Nitania
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kiryan
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some rares are uber hard to find, some are super easy. id rather him stay where he is because it fits my kind of style. little to no rare hunting.
Some folks would like him moved so it fits their playstyle. You can argue risk vs reward, but part of that equation is load rate. Id much rather have his load rate dropped down instead of moved. Id rather see the fight be 2x as tough than moved. But thats just me. if he keeps loading in desert, ill get him someday no matter how low his load rate is or how hard the fight is. If he loads on duskroad, ill never get one.
This whole topic imo is still change mob x so i can get one with a little of its way to easy for what you get thrown in there.
So lets ignore the i want one aspect and try to focus on the problem. Can we even say what the problem is? Is it too easy, too powerful, or too many in the game?
I personally dont think there are too many, but im not the kind of player that needs to be the only one to have something. Would be far better imo if it had been a single slot item rather than a double slot item, but its a little late now.
I definitly think its powerful, but probably not too powerful. If it was 3/3 or something then itd be way too powerful, but 1/2 is only 1 hit better than other neck gear and a combo of 3 hit/dam is available on numerous slots for warriors. The no summon is awesome, dont know if id say it makes it too powerful. Especially when there isnt a whole lot of no summon out there that i know of that a warrior can use thats not a feeble weapon or a super rare and highly sought invasion crown.
Too easy perhaps. In a straight up fight, you get owned. If you use tactics, a relatively small group can do it with risk of a few deaths.
What I think the problem with zog is that its a double slot item so everyone wants 2. Its part of an invoker quest in such a way that you cant get the uber warrior gear if the invoker wants his quest spell. And its a rare load. This rare is way to sought, therefore people fight over it and feel put out when they dont have 2 for whatever reason. Make him pop every boot =), imp a 2/2 necklace, downgrade it to 2/1, or best do nothing at all since I havent seen anything remotely close to a real argument for changing him (cept the rp/hes a caravan one). All good eq gets twinked/fought over.
Oh, i wouldnt mind if the folks rentd out in vipers tongue got nailed for camping rares, oh but thats an inn and a different zone so its legit, even though they only spend the first 5 minutes of any given boot south of waterdeep. kinda like when those druids and clerics only cast word so that they could spend the first 5 minutes of every boot searching em rares. Anyhow that belongs in a different thread, and its not even something that deserves discussion, just a rant. im tired good night.
Some folks would like him moved so it fits their playstyle. You can argue risk vs reward, but part of that equation is load rate. Id much rather have his load rate dropped down instead of moved. Id rather see the fight be 2x as tough than moved. But thats just me. if he keeps loading in desert, ill get him someday no matter how low his load rate is or how hard the fight is. If he loads on duskroad, ill never get one.
This whole topic imo is still change mob x so i can get one with a little of its way to easy for what you get thrown in there.
So lets ignore the i want one aspect and try to focus on the problem. Can we even say what the problem is? Is it too easy, too powerful, or too many in the game?
I personally dont think there are too many, but im not the kind of player that needs to be the only one to have something. Would be far better imo if it had been a single slot item rather than a double slot item, but its a little late now.
I definitly think its powerful, but probably not too powerful. If it was 3/3 or something then itd be way too powerful, but 1/2 is only 1 hit better than other neck gear and a combo of 3 hit/dam is available on numerous slots for warriors. The no summon is awesome, dont know if id say it makes it too powerful. Especially when there isnt a whole lot of no summon out there that i know of that a warrior can use thats not a feeble weapon or a super rare and highly sought invasion crown.
Too easy perhaps. In a straight up fight, you get owned. If you use tactics, a relatively small group can do it with risk of a few deaths.
What I think the problem with zog is that its a double slot item so everyone wants 2. Its part of an invoker quest in such a way that you cant get the uber warrior gear if the invoker wants his quest spell. And its a rare load. This rare is way to sought, therefore people fight over it and feel put out when they dont have 2 for whatever reason. Make him pop every boot =), imp a 2/2 necklace, downgrade it to 2/1, or best do nothing at all since I havent seen anything remotely close to a real argument for changing him (cept the rp/hes a caravan one). All good eq gets twinked/fought over.
Oh, i wouldnt mind if the folks rentd out in vipers tongue got nailed for camping rares, oh but thats an inn and a different zone so its legit, even though they only spend the first 5 minutes of any given boot south of waterdeep. kinda like when those druids and clerics only cast word so that they could spend the first 5 minutes of every boot searching em rares. Anyhow that belongs in a different thread, and its not even something that deserves discussion, just a rant. im tired good night.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>Taken from help goodie:
Warning: goodies are extremely easy to play. They have over triple the numbers of evils and are not limited by their sight, numbers, means of transportation and classes available. Goods have access to all the classes evils do save one, and have four unique classes themselves. Also, they have the best tanks and psis/liches combined into one; druids. Despite claims by staff that evils and goodies are now equal, evils can scrouge together one zone group if they are lucky, while goods seem to have no such problem. Even if evils mostly find rares first, as goodie you don't have to worry because evils have A) usually don't have people on to form a group B) mostly have no form of transportation to get said group to a location C) even if they have a) and b) chances are they have to wait for dark 12 mins.
All jokes aside, I would suggest not loading Zog where he does now, but instead placing his caravan anywhere on the SG coast road / grove, Neshkal or the trail from dusk to BGR. Unlike with other zone-specific rares, this would work for him since he's a marauding bandit. And change him to !locate.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Seems to be a lot of whining about evils being harder to play than goodies in all aspects of the game though you insist on playing them. Enough said.
Io
<B>Taken from help goodie:
Warning: goodies are extremely easy to play. They have over triple the numbers of evils and are not limited by their sight, numbers, means of transportation and classes available. Goods have access to all the classes evils do save one, and have four unique classes themselves. Also, they have the best tanks and psis/liches combined into one; druids. Despite claims by staff that evils and goodies are now equal, evils can scrouge together one zone group if they are lucky, while goods seem to have no such problem. Even if evils mostly find rares first, as goodie you don't have to worry because evils have A) usually don't have people on to form a group B) mostly have no form of transportation to get said group to a location C) even if they have a) and b) chances are they have to wait for dark 12 mins.
All jokes aside, I would suggest not loading Zog where he does now, but instead placing his caravan anywhere on the SG coast road / grove, Neshkal or the trail from dusk to BGR. Unlike with other zone-specific rares, this would work for him since he's a marauding bandit. And change him to !locate.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Seems to be a lot of whining about evils being harder to play than goodies in all aspects of the game though you insist on playing them. Enough said.
Io
Nobody sad evls are to hard boohoo. zog to easy to find/kill.
I was with cherz one time, we HAD a full group but like he said goods just wellled in and in walked group. we had to wait for dark illus wouldnt have helped to much, for we still would have been on EP folding down when goodies came threw the well....
change zog this is a long term game and we are here for the long hall, make him hard and !load same spot.
give zoldren pink 100hp gear for every slot
and give her well/rangerhits/paly tanking, rogue damage abilities. thank you please lay down
I was with cherz one time, we HAD a full group but like he said goods just wellled in and in walked group. we had to wait for dark illus wouldnt have helped to much, for we still would have been on EP folding down when goodies came threw the well....
change zog this is a long term game and we are here for the long hall, make him hard and !load same spot.
give zoldren pink 100hp gear for every slot
and give her well/rangerhits/paly tanking, rogue damage abilities. thank you please lay down
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Galok Icewolf
- Sojourner
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- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 6:01 am
Where do you stop the line?
Change Gythka mobs, Change Zog, Change Spidergaunts, Change where GC mobs load, Change were Kostie and ymir load, Change fzoul, Change where chlora loads...
Sure.. EVERYONE knows where chlora loads.. should it be changed? You can't go changing stuff just because some people knows where it is. I agree rare-loads should be no locate, but I belive zog should be left alone.
Change Gythka mobs, Change Zog, Change Spidergaunts, Change where GC mobs load, Change were Kostie and ymir load, Change fzoul, Change where chlora loads...
Sure.. EVERYONE knows where chlora loads.. should it be changed? You can't go changing stuff just because some people knows where it is. I agree rare-loads should be no locate, but I belive zog should be left alone.
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