Mage agi/dex

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Karikhan
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Mage agi/dex

Postby Karikhan » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:11 am

Just rolled a drow enchanter with (in MY opinion) awesome stats!! With just very basic eq I have

STR: perfect AGI: average
DEX: mundane CON: mighty
POW: mundane INT: perfect
WIS: perfect CHA: average

I have been arguing with a very old and dear friend about mage agi/dex... and I want some opinions....

Now I have been told drow is hard as hell to roll more than 3 good or better so i decided to use these as basic desired stats

Perf Int (of couse)
Good or better Wis
Fair or better dex/agi
Mighty or better Con/Stre
and the rest no bads (rofl personal choice)

and i got all my desired stats (took a week of on again off again rolling)

I feel a fair or better agi/dex is fine for a mage ... SHOULDN'T need to dodge much (go rescues), and I won't be using weapons for much longer .. will be held items (winkcough) .. and I feel the Con bonus went to increase hps a LITTLE (those three hp raises per level suck) and man who wants your eq to outweigh your Strength roll ... and I won't even mention the perfect Int/Good or better wis ..

so please end a long time argurment about this!!(or make him keep quiet, ROFL!!)

*wink* Jazdak

-Ambar
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Postby Corth » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:55 am

I think perhaps the one mistake I made was not rolling a high enough agility. with 50something agility I fall on earthquakes a lot more than most other players. Makes a big difference. Also, casters find themselves tanking a fair amount on this incarnation of the mud, so it helps there. If I rolled a new illus today, I wouldn't bother with the super con (since res's dont drain anymore), and would try to get more agi.

On the other hand, by freak of nature, dex is my highest natural stat and as far as i can tell it hasn't done anything for me.

Corth

[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 02-14-2002).]
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:01 am

I was really lazy when I rolled Jegzed.. About 20 rolls max, and I tried to avoid having a disastrous CHA..

I wanted a str and agi at 80+ and con and int at 90+... Since I knew my desired gear would always include +9 int anyway Image

This is my naked stats now, I've been drained once in a ress though... I used to have 95 con.

STR: 87 AGI: 81 DEX: 74 CON: 94
POW: 43 INT: 92 WIS: 59 CHA: 52
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Postby Ensis » Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:33 am

Ensis stats naked:

STR: 82 DEX: 95 AGI: 93 CON: 84
POW: 46 INT: 54 WIS: 64 CHA: 87

need i say more? :P
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Postby Bopple » Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:10 pm

Hrmm...mages need perfect int? There are bunch of must-have mage items that has +Int.

About Agi, I totally agree with Corth.

Dex...i prefer it not that high. For i don't wanna hit shielded mobs nor get riposted.

And what does Wis do for mages? I never paid attention to wis for mages as long as it's better than bad.

[This message has been edited by Bopple (edited 02-14-2002).]
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Postby Todrael » Thu Feb 14, 2002 2:18 pm

Wisdom does not matter for a mage. I have 46. Agility does matter. I have 95.

-Todrael
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Postby Rausrh » Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:58 pm

One thing to think about is how much you will be soloing. An enchanter has excellent solo potential, and if you want to solo you should keep the agi up even at the cost of a lower wisdom.



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Postby Dalar » Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:44 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bopple:
<B>Hrmm...mages need perfect int? There are bunch of must-have mage items that has +Int.
[This message has been edited by Bopple (edited 02-14-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you're right, there are alot of must-have mage items that have int, but the best eq in the game hp/+bonus wise doesn't have any +int. if you want the best stats u need 100 int natural so you can wear full maxint and get the notches. not sure what the notches are though.
as for dorf clerics and barb shamans, it's best to have 100 wisdom also b/c their maxwis notches are at 101 and 113. I only rolled 97 so I have to wear a disc for the +9 wis Image
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:50 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dalar:
you're right, there are alot of must-have mage items that have int, but the best eq in the game hp/+bonus wise doesn't have any +int. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will ALWAYS use a +int eq no matter what Image Since I was the first by far to do the quest for it this wipe, and I really dont need the 5 extra hp from a 1k headband Image
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Postby Treladian » Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:31 pm

>>Dex...i prefer it not that high. For i don't wanna hit shielded mobs nor get riposted.<<

Low dex can help the former a little bit, but nothing statwise can help the latter (unless your a halfling where even semi high dex = extra attacks). You don't need to hit in order to get parried and then riposted. The skill checks for those two are made before whether the attacker hits is determined.

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Postby Glarec » Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ensis:
<B>Ensis stats naked:

STR: 82 DEX: 95 AGI: 93 CON: 84 </B>
POW: 46 INT: 54 WIS: 64 CHA: 87

need i say more? :P

</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*comfort* on con
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Postby Malacar » Thu Feb 14, 2002 8:12 pm

STR: 78 AGI: 80 DEX: 55 CON: 96
POW: 65 INT: 100 WIS: 66 CHA: 73
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:25 pm

Like con matters. There's a minnimum, then beyond that it dosent matter... that minnimum, is dependent on race, but i think it averages out around 76 or 78..

Any points spent in it beyond that for a mage/cleric is a waste imo.
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Postby Jurdex » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:30 pm

I have a 63 agility on Dornax..

And I hate it.

I hate it.

I think it is utterly stupid that a dwarf gets quaked 90% of the time just because he has a 63 agility...

I am four feet tall. I weigh 237 pounds, and I am pretty sturdy and strong with a low center of gravity.. yet I fall to earthquakes 90% of the time.

Makes no sense to me.. Image

Earthquake should be based on a svspell check, its a spell after all.. and don't tell me its cuz quake actually makes the ground shake that it checks agility, cuz if that was true we wouldn't be able to quake in !ground rooms..

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Postby Corth » Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:20 pm

Couple of points:

I disagree with todrael as far as wisdom for mages. If I'm not mistaken, wis notches decrease your mem time. I wouldnt bother with the perfect con, but definately get a respectable wis.

The high high end mage gear actually doesn't have +int on it generally. My staff is +int, but its also 65hps. Nothing else that I know of in the game has both top hps and int.

Max_int is another issue. Depending upon your race, you can get the max_int notch rather easily with a couple of nebulas.. which you would likely use anyway. For these races, I would suggest rolling a perfect int, cause at the high end of your eq, your not getting int from anywhere else. For humans, in my experience it hasn't been practical to get a max_int notch. That being the case, perfect int isnt necessary.. all you want is the top notch.

Corth
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Postby Malacar » Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:29 pm

Int affects mage mem notches.

Wisdom just affects rate of skills notching.

I think it's semi-important, but not overly.
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Postby Karikhan » Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:48 am

so back to the original question .. when rolling a drow (gonna have to hit 20 to see the stats .. o wait may as well hit 26 for the !fail stone)

agi/dex matter but not a whole hell of a lot?? I don't see me soloing a lot as an enchanter ... too many people wanna tank for me (go me .. rofl)

the perf con is a result of a belt .. natural was mighty
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Postby Bopple » Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:09 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>Couple of points:

If I'm not mistaken, wis notches decrease your mem time.

Corth</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Really? I've never dreamed it'd. Hrmm..i'd better go check it.
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Postby Todrael » Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:12 am

He is mistaken. Agility matters. Dex/wis do not.

-Todrael
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Postby Corth » Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:02 am

Yeah i might be mistaken.. that was always my impression though.

Corth
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Postby Bipple » Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:13 am

I believe Int effects mage classs mem times and Wis effects Clerical classes pray time.
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Postby Kiloppile » Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B>He is mistaken. Agility matters. Dex/wis do not.

-Todrael</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Strongly concur.
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Postby Jegzed » Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
The high high end mage gear actually doesn't have +int on it generally. My staff is +int, but its also 65hps. Nothing else that I know of in the game has both top hps and int.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spider cuisse has int+9 and is max-hp. And coronet is the 2nd best in hp or so, and have also int+9.

I might be wrong, since I dont know all Oakvale and MD eq.
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Postby Karikhan » Fri Feb 15, 2002 8:34 am

thanks for clearing this up for me!! Image
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Postby xa » Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:29 am

hrmm lesse here str 95 agi 66 ooch.. dex 54 con 98 pow 65 int 96 Imagewis 72 and 50 cha heh i suck! Image flib
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Postby Corth » Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:08 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B> Spider cuisse has int+9 and is max-hp. And coronet is the 2nd best in hp or so, and have also int+9.

I might be wrong, since I dont know all Oakvale and MD eq.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most people would prefer headband of 1k eyes to coronet in order to get extra hps and sense life. You can't wear the headband if your good aligned, but you dont see many good aligned casters at the high end because of holy/unholy word and also the best eq is neutral.


Spider cuisse/gold dragonscale leggings are an option for all mages, but if you have your int notch, you can wear flayed or basilisks (choice of sv_spell and prot fire or stone proc). Essentially, by choosing the cuisse, your losing sv_spell or stone proc, so its not as good an item. The true high end player has naturally good int, and thus gets a bonus in this slot by not having to wear the cuisse.

Corth

[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 02-15-2002).]
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Postby Jegzed » Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:21 am

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:</font>

Most people would prefer headband of 1k eyes to coronet in order to get extra hps and sense life. You can't wear the headband if your good aligned, but you dont see many good aligned casters at the high end because of holy/unholy word and also the best eq is neutral.[/QUOTE]

For me, I wear coronet out of sentimental values, as Demi is my fave zone and I did the quest long before anyone else this wipe...


My setup is kind of unique. I wear a diamond tiara on my head for 30hps -2sv_Spell, and get my sense life from my goggles which are also 15hps and give me some sv_breath. The only way you can really wear the tiara is if you have the goggles, cause otherwise you would need to wear a shroud for sense life and lose 40+ hps.

Plenty of other options to get sense_life without losing 40+ hps Image *cough* how about a certain other eyepatch?

Spider cuisse/dragonscale leggings are an option for all mages, but if you have your int notch, you can wear flayed or basilisks (choice of sv_spell and prot fire or stone proc). Essentially, by choosing the cuisse, your losing sv_spell or stone proc, so its not as good an item. The true high end player has naturally good int, and thus gets a bonus in this slot by not having to wear the cuisse.

Enchanters don't need any stone-proc. The sv_spell would of course be better to have though, but it is not a priority at the moment.


In general, yes you are right.. Perfect int makes you use some eq that is slightly better, but you are not handicapped extremely by it.


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Postby kiryan » Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:37 am

dont post eqd stats, post nekkid ones if you want suggestions that mean something.

roll high agility. you want to avoid aborting spells from earthquakes,

as for int, i wouldnt make a point of rolling it super high, spidre cruissse ar nice and there is tons of max int eq you dont really need to make the second max int notch.

get your last con notchc for sure, i rolled 96 for my wifes con because i dont know how ress fail is coded, numerically or notch (i dont think its pure notch based), but i sure as hell not going to chance it.

other considirations, drow can get a third attack occassionally with high dex *even mages i hear*

eldritch rings are -9 str, but all mages i think get the str spell and weightless bags abound. just be careful of it fading when you got to flee *collapses under the load of your inventtoory*

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 02-15-2002).]
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Postby Corth » Fri Feb 15, 2002 4:01 pm

Doh Jez:

you quoted parts of my message even though I edited it out right away. Image

Stop replying so quick!

Sentimental attachments to eq eh? Well at least yours is obtainable. I have a sentimental attachment to.. Volo boots. Snort.

Kiryan: Spider cuisse is not nice. Flayed leggings are nice Image. Your advice works for someone who will never have top notch eq. There *is* plenty of stuff that has +int on it, but generally, the best item for that body slot will not have +int. If you intend one day on wearing the best mage eq in the game, roll a high int.

As for con and res effect, I have spoken to people with piss poor con who hardly ever fail, and people with good con that fail way too often. Who knows, it might just be a coincidence. However, I am still not convinced that con has a real effect on your res success. I would like to point out though that I'm not saying con doesn't have an effect, I'm saying that I haven't seen it.

Corth

[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 02-15-2002).]
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Postby kiryan » Fri Feb 15, 2002 4:21 pm

i definitely agree flayed are nicer than cruise, and both are relatively hard to obtain imo. however, in top end gear tell me your ss isnt hitting -25? correct me if im wrong spider cruisse is 15 hps 9 int, flayed 15 hps -4ss? does the 4 ss on flayed make that much difference in "top end" eq? Also, does getting that last max int notch really do anything substantial for you? The worst int you can roll for a mage is what 89? And remember were talking about a drow mage with great int notches to start with.
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Postby Corth » Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:41 pm

Kiryan:

my Sv_spell is -13. If I want to raise it to -17, I can lose 10hps. Altogheter, I have 845 hps. We're talking high end gear here, and sv_spell and int is difficult to obtain if you want to have the perfect set of eq.

Corth
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Postby Sarvis » Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:45 pm

Err... does int do _anything_ for a mage besides decrease memtimes? If not, then why not roll some other stats higher... so what if you have to wait another 10 seconds? Just a thought anyway...

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Postby Hatan » Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:24 pm

I think int effect the quick chant.. but i may be wrong.
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Postby Bipple » Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:10 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hatan:
I think int effect the quick chant.. but i may be wrong.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Might also effect Meditate success, although both of those rarely miss once mastered so I doubt it really matters.
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Postby Maladryn » Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:48 pm

I haven't had my last int notch since I rolled up Maladryn. Now that I'm level 50, having the last int notch makes little to no difference, because mem times are already super low.

Also, flayed leggings are not save spell, they are -2sv_breath.

Maladryn
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Postby Nokar » Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:40 pm

I would like to know what a perfect set of eq is for a mage. or a perfect set of eq period for that matter? Just curious.

L8r all,


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Postby Tilandal » Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:23 am

Sarvis, Decressed memtimes are extreamly inportant for mages, especially for enchanters since they mem out often. 2 seconds off a spell might not seem like much but when you cast 5 globes 3 stones and 3 blurs and the random hastes and other spells it adds up quick.

For most mage class/race combos id go with as high Int as possible, max notch on Con/Agi, fair or better Str (especially for gnomes and elves/drow). Wis Cha and Pow can all be pretty much ignored. Decent Wis will help a bit but wont hurt you much if you dont have it. Humans specificly can probably drop a bit of str and put it into wis instead to help those skills a bit since they are disadvantaged in int.
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Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 01, 2002 11:36 am

Mantle of knowledge is what 13 int and the best hp about body i dont think you can roll a mage that you really have to worry about making max int? I wouldnt waste any bonuses on int until we see top end hp gear thats - int.

how many times you mem out in zone? folks not being afk and getting killed will save you way more in zone time than your 2 s better mem times. Ditching "hitters" for invokers will save you time on those extra hastes/stones. but anyways im just ranting, mem time doesnt mean dick in zone and cutting one useless exp sucking leach will help you in exp more than your mem time. point is i dont think you can roll a mage with less int than it needs.

When was the last time you heard someone say oh get player x, he rolled great int.

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 03-01-2002).]
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Postby Gormal » Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:25 pm

mantle is +wis
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Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:01 pm

plus int too isnt it?
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Postby Corth » Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:16 pm

If it was +int too then it would also be 0hps...

Corth
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Postby Jegzed » Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:44 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>If it was +int too then it would also be 0hps...

Corth</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's definitely just +wis.. At least it was when I last checked mine.
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Postby Corth » Fri Mar 01, 2002 3:55 pm

agreed!
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Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 01, 2002 6:40 pm

thx info
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Postby Dalar » Fri Mar 01, 2002 7:36 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>Mantle of knowledge is what 13 int and the best hp about body

how many times you mem out in zone? folks not being afk and getting killed will save you way more in zone time than your 2 s better mem times. Ditching "hitters" for invokers will save you time on those extra hastes/stones. but anyways im just ranting, mem time doesnt mean dick in zone and cutting one useless exp sucking leach will help you in exp more than your mem time. point is i dont think you can roll a mage with less int than it needs.

When was the last time you heard someone say oh get player x, he rolled great int.

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 03-01-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dcult has best hp with 50 hp. mantle is 13 wis. how often do i mem out during a zone? i'd say every 2 min if i'm paying attention.
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Postby Pirol » Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:10 pm

Do elementalists need a decent power stat anymore? I thought I saw a post where Lyt was arguing that they should remove the power stat minimum from the roller. Does your power stat affect your pets or your ability to get them to obey you?
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Postby Abbayarra » Fri Mar 01, 2002 10:24 pm

What stat or save helps to avoid wingbuffet?
I'd like to know if there is anything that helps with this.

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