i'm babo i like jaznolg but.. him ignored

[babo]

I made a fault again on the subject of this
article.
this should be: i'm Babo. I liked jaznolg
but he ignored me.


it happend. a.m. 8 it korean time.

i asked.

You tell Jaznolg 'you think me bad? it my miss? how you think?'

Jaznolg tells you 'i think everybody feels like they shoulda got what they really wanted.. and this isnt the first time that people have been unhappy about not getting what they wanted'

You tell Jaznolg 'when you taking bid. i sent my bid to you . but you missed my name on the list. first tiime i thot you might miss my tell. but '

You tell Jaznolg 'happened twice'

You tell Jaznolg 'that happended twice'

Jaznolg tells you 'no i saw it there.. i just didnt want to give you that'

Jaznolg tells you 'its nothing personal.. i just thought other people deserve it more'

Jaznolg tells you 'most people would be happy just to get something at all.. such as a token and some red dragon armor'

You tell Jaznolg 'ok. but you culd say to me. i wont give any good eq for ya. before you tanking bid. isnt it?'

Jaznolg tells you 'i already knew what i wanted to give you'

Jaznolg tells you 'you needed another thrym token.. you got a thrym token.. if i took you to jot and saw they you didnt need another thrym token.. you would probably get gloves.. and next time possibly ringmail'

You tell Jaznolg 'im just pissed off that you rolled dice w/o me on the list before you told anything for that'

You tell Jaznolg 'if i couldnt take that eq for some reason. you should tell or explain.'

Jaznolg tells you 'i had to do jot about 15 - 20x with my guildleader lazzraxxuum before i got what i wanted out of that zone... i didnt complain to him about it when i didnt get something either'

You tell Jaznolg 'so i thot you ignored me or something.'

Jaznolg tells you 'nope.. thats just the way it goes.. some people have just done the zone a lot more than you and have not even said a word about it not getting the best item there.. most didnt even bid on it cuz they knew that someone else was higher level and more deserving than them'

You tell Jaznolg 'but he doesnt like to kate bid. so he just splits. but you said you gonna take bid. didnt you?'

Jaznolg tells you 'when i dice something.. it means i cant decide who should get it more.. and dont wanna hand it out to them as i normaly would'

You tell Jaznolg 'elet almost arrived when we almost finished jot. and he got ringmail and left'

Jaznolg tells you 'yeap.. we could not have done it without his help'

Jaznolg tells you 'he is a resserecter... he need more hp so he can essentialy survive real nasty stuff so he can ress people also.. i take everythin into consideration'

You tell Jaznolg 'see my eq. any best eq on my bosy? i didnt complain when split. but it happens when bid also my life it ice's eq'

Jaznolg tells you 'do you have spirit walk?'

Jaznolg tells you 'just take what you can get and dont complain people will like you a lot more'

You tell Jaznolg 'if you split with your own risk. im ok. but if you decided to roll dice i really want to get chance to bid'

You tell Jaznolg 'no.. i havnt it yet'

You tell Jaznolg 'then what about zellin?'

tell jaznolg he's a resser?

Jaznolg tells you 'well thats the thing.. i dont bid eq like that.. i always feel that i give stuff to the right people.. i didnt feel you were the best person to recieve those items.. do you see where im comming from?'

Jaznolg tells you 'nope.. without zellin we wouldnt have been there in the first place'

Jaznolg tells you 'no eq for anybody'

You tell Jaznolg 'you don't need ghealer then?'

Jaznolg tells you 'im not saying that.. gheal is very useful also'

You tell Jaznolg 'first place? what you mean?'

Jaznolg tells you 'nope.. without zellin we wouldnt have been there at all'

You tell Jaznolg 'then if i tell how to get to entrance to ya. i can get something?'

You tell Jaznolg 'zellin is someone's alt?'

Jaznolg tells you 'no hes not an alt'

Jaznolg tells you 'i thought you did a very good job.. and im sorry you didnt have fun or like the eq i gave you..'

You tell Jaznolg 'then i don't understand what you mean we wouldnt have been there at all w/o zellin?'

You tell Jaznolg 'he did lead jot?'

Jaznolg tells you 'you cant do anything without a cleric'

Jaznolg tells you 'i will tell you one thing tho... most other leader had you talk to them this way about they way they split eq... they would have thought you a whiner and would not want to take you anywhere'

Jaznolg tells you 'i have given you all the explanation i can... i try and hook you up next time'

You tell Jaznolg 'then i should make a reser to get eq? so i can servive at zone'

Jaznolg tells you 'playing this game isnt about eq'

Jaznolg tells you 'im sorry you think that'

You tell Jaznolg 'but jegzed gonac said babo bad and go goodi'

Jaznolg tells you 'they were joking because thats the way most goodies split eq'

Jaznolg tells you 'they lotto it'

You tell Jaznolg 'w owrry about some of people think im so greedy and im always pissed off if i dont get best eq of zone'

You tell Jaznolg 'im so sad for my bad english. i woulndt say something about that at the moment. but i couldnt'

You tell Jaznolg 'frankly. are you ignored of me coz im a newbie?'

Jaznolg tells you 'that is a small part of it'

Jaznolg tells you 'most newbies dont get to zone like you have had chances too... you should be thankful for even getting to go at all and learn'

Jaznolg tells you 'most leaders that i follow will not take newbies.. they just wont do a zone until their old buddies that know everything already play'

Jaznolg tells you 'like i said nothing against you at all.. eq will come in time'

You tell Jaznolg 'i was pissed off coz i thot i got ignored. but all people think im pissed off coz i didnt get best eq'

Jaznolg tells you 'thats what i thought.. i was ignoring you.. i just get a bunch of tells for the same thing and have to decide who gets it.. usually it doesnt come to dicing'

Jaznolg tells you 'was not ignoring you rather'

You tell Jaznolg 'if i explain my self to them. they wouldnt believe . so i hope you wuld tell to them they are misunderstood'

Jaznolg tells you 'i dunno.. they will need you sometime.. not too many evil shaman around these days'

You tell Jaznolg 'then why you didnt explain i shouldnt bid on it when you taking bid? i watied your answer for long'

Jaznolg tells you 'cuz when i ask for tells on what people want i get a lot of them.. and i have to split the eq'
i was so shamed
You tell Jaznolg 'you culd tell the reason at least. and you gsaid to everyone about it. i was so shamed'

Jaznolg tells you 'i like to do it as fast and as fair as i can.. sorry if i ignore your question'

Jaznolg tells you 'i think i am being extremely patient right now'

You tell Jaznolg 'with what?'

You tell Jaznolg 'patient with what?'

Jaznolg tells you 'all these questions you are asking me'

Jaznolg tells you 'when id rather not talk about it'

Jaznolg tells you 'did you at least have fun?'

You tell Jaznolg 'i waited your answer!!!'

Jaznolg tells you 'sometimes i miss things when i get spammed with 20 tells at once'

You tell Jaznolg 'what you think if you think got ignored of someonre ? you happy and say hahahaha?'

Jaznolg tells you 'im not perfect nor do i claim to be'

Jaznolg tells you 'no.. i just think that they are busy, AFK, or didnt hear what i said.. so i wait and then reapeat it later'

You tell Jaznolg 'yeah you did lead good. and i had fun when zoning. but at spliting i thot i got ingored of you. and thot you kept ingoringme while zone'

You tell Jaznolg 'not one time. it was twice'

You tell Jaznolg 'ignoring me'

You tell Jaznolg 'if you really think i didnt ignore of me. it's ok. but if you did. please say sorry about it'

Jaznolg tells you 'i miss a lot of messages when i lead.. cuz i put a lot of focus into certain other things.. it was nothing against you'

Jaznolg tells you 'nah man im not gunna apologize for anything... i did nothing wrong'

Jaznolg tells you 'im not here to serve you.. it just turned out that way... and i think i am being very nice about your problems with the way i did things'

You tell Jaznolg 'you was busy when split?'

Jaznolg tells you 'yes.. i had a lot of tells to look at all at once'






spliting..

Jaznolg group-says 'looks like we got a few people for ringmail'

Jaznolg group-says 'i gunna hafta dice that one between best canidates'

You group-say 'biding?'

Jaznolg group-says 'kind of'

Jaznolg group-says 'but not really'


Jaznolg group-says 'dicing ringmail between elet and Azenilsee'

You tell Jaznolg 'ringmail'

Jaznolg group-says 'elet 1 azen 2'

A 2 sided dice is rolled by Jaznolg 1 times, the total result is: 1

Jaznolg gives ringmail emblazoned with a mace and skull emblem to Elet.

it happend. a.m. 4


Jaznolg group-says 'okay send tells with what u want'

You tell Jaznolg 'amulet'

Jaznolg group-says 'for amulet'

Jaznolg group-says 'tod 1 cherzra 2'

A 2 sided dice is rolled by Jaznolg 1 times, the total result is: 2

Jaznolg gets an amulet of sight from his tattered silken sack.

Jaznolg gives an amulet of sight to Cherzra.


it happend. a.m7


You tell Jaznolg 'i said amulet'

Jaznolg tells you 'i know.. it dont work like that tho.. its most eligable people basis'

Jegzed group-says 'amulet is farsee/di/infra/senselife'

You tell Jaznolg 'hm..'

Jaznolg tells you 'people that most need/deserve it'

You tell Jaznolg 'hm... why you don't give me eq?'

You tell Jaznolg 'you hate me?'

Jaznolg tells you 'no.. i just think you need to level some more and group regularly'

You tell Jaznolg 'you lies you too bad if you hate me tell me'

Todrael tells you 'jaz is just messing with you'

Todrael tells you 'think he just missed your bid'

Jaznolg tells you 'thats just they way splittin eq works dude.. it goes to the higher level people that have done that zone more times and not got anything at all'

Todrael tells you 'shrug, when he says dicing speak up'

Todrael tells you 'no that hard to let people know before teh dice go out'

Jaznolg tells you 'they didnt think i hated them for it either.. just the way that works'

tell todrael it just him gime too me i don't said i want it

You tell Todrael 'it just him gime too me i don't said i want it'

A red shape group-says 'leader has been blinded by my power word blind!'

Jaznolg tells you 'you also have the spells di dm and sense life... where as cherzra does not'

You tell Jaznolg 'why you done dice ringmail it gave ringmail also without me i said before dice'

Jaznolg tells you 'its nothing against you.. you got some nice stuff today for comming with me'

You tell Jaznolg 'nice stuff?'

Jaznolg tells you 'you are level 44.. been to jot what? 4 - 6 times?'

You tell Jaznolg 'then why you said you gonna take bid on it?'

You tell Jaznolg 'i done my shared! !!'

You stop using a token of allegiance to Thrym.

Jaznolg tells you 'you will not be bid the best eq out of a zone right away comparitively to people who have been with me and done it over 10x and not gotten it.. thats just the way i do things'

You get an intricate suit of Red Dragon Armor from a leather backpack.

You give an intricate suit of Red Dragon Armor to Jaznolg

You give a token of allegiance to Thrym to Jaznolg

Jaznolg says 'cool turra will like the token'

Jaznolg thanks you heartily.

Jaznolg says 'nice guy.. dunno why you cry about eq splits'

Verzul group-says 'any ideas jaz?'

Jaznolg group-says 'i musta missed what u said.. im dealing with babo.. he is very pissed off about not getting the best eq from zones today'

You tell Jaznolg 'i have been here for 12 hours. i sent my bid on ringmail amulet but i hadnt even chance to bid'

You group-say 'Jaznolg says 'nice guy.. dunno why you cry about eq splits''

You group-say 'i have been here for 12 hours. i sent my bid on ringmail amulet but i hadnt even chance to bid''

Verzul group-says 'fucking caravan guards, narrow escape!'

Verzul group-says 'good thing I scale myself'

You group-say 'you just done diced whithout me '

Todrael has left the group.

Gonac group-says 'shit, zog loaded this boot?'

Verzul group-says 'yeah '

Gonac group-says '** DI out **'

Gonac group-says 'who did it'

Jaznolg group-says 'yes i did'

Verzul group-says 'heh we did but it was fucked'

Verzul group-says 'OK.. who needs to quest falcon boots?'

Verzul group-says 'cuz I'm standing at zartilon'

Jaznolg group-says 'and i will do the same thing again... i do it everytime i split.. not just to you but to half the people that will bid on something'

Jaznolg group-says 'i decide who gets it.. and i try my best to give it to the most needing and deserving person'

Jaznolg group-says 'im sorry you dont like it'

Verzul group-says 'need darkenbeast claws mutter'

Jegzed group-says 'that explains why I ALWAYS get the best eq'

Jaznolg group-says 'turra loves the thrym token you didnt like tho.. ill have her thank you'

Verzul group-says 'heh when you go out of your way to lead a zone I think you deserve whatever piece you want '

Turra tells you 'thank you for the token'

Gonac group-says 'bend over kiss that ass =P'

Gonac group-says 'j/k'

You group-say 'i don't want the item directly. but at least want a chance to bid. '

Gonac group-says 'i agree though'

Jaznolg group-says 'with some level of responsibility tho'

Verzul group-says 'that's why I need to lead tf!'

Jegzed group-says 'so go roll a goodie babo'

Gonac group-says 'naw, lead a zone and learn what you have to put up with, the leader deserves some fun'

Verzul group-says 'I have lead a zone'

Verzul group-says 'splitting eq sucks and people always bitch'

Jaznolg group-says 'it does dude'

Jaznolg group-says 'it not so bad if people can suck it up and say next time i get what i really want'

Jaznolg group-says 'someone else lead im getting tired'

Jaznolg group-says 'be sure to give babo the best item from every zone too'

Gonac group-says 'lol, babo go to bed'

Verzul tells you 'just suck it up bro, TRUST me you never want to complain about split'

Jegzed group-says 'forming'

Jaznolg has disbanded the group.

Turra prowls in from the south.

Turra thanks you heartily.

yesterday i with jaz plyed almost 14hours..

[This message has been edited by babo (edited 03-07-2002).]

[This message has been edited by babo (edited 03-07-2002).]

[This message has been edited by babo (edited 03-07-2002).]

[This message has been edited by babo (edited 03-07-2002).]

[Jegzed]

Babo, I think you don't understand Jaznolg because english is not your first language.

Here's how Jaznolg splits, and I'm the same way too, as are most of the evil leaders.

EQ goes FIRST to the ONES that have done the zone alot and need it on their prime, and are people which are considered GOOD by the leader.

Take that amulet of sight.. I know I sure as hell wanted one for my warrior, but I'm NOT asking for such an item when we have more respected players than me, such as Cherzra and Todrael in the group.

When you're greener or noob:ier than most others you will NOT have a chance at the spankiest eq from a tough zone.

HOWEVER, you will MOST likely end up with eq that you can use.

It's more for the benefit of all if everyone gets eq they can use instead of the noob getting the ringmail, and the decked resser just missing that item get a 4th thrym-token.

[Bopple]

As a semi-rl friend of Babo, I should comment on this.

I totally agree leaders have the right to split eq as they see fit. And I also know leaders take so much pains when leading and splitting.

But Babo doesn't claim he's entitled to get any stuff he wants. Actually, he's quite a young, pure and kind soul. Not greedy at all.(though he's a bit childlike at times - not childish i mean)

Apparently, Babo is a newbie. (but ferverent and earnest one) And he haven't zoned around many times. But he's more than eager to learn the rules that we hold fast subconsciously. If only jaz hadn't just ignored him but told him there being more deserving ppl, he could have learned more about zoning and splitting and could have bidden on the other things, then nothing like this should have happened.

And it's the misunderstandings(that Babo is greedy) of the groupies that sickens Babo the most. This misunderstanding is partly because Babo is not good at english and partly because Jaz assumed Babo was just bitching about eq and told groupies Babo was.

Trust me. Babo is not a kind of greedy or childish whiner. Though not a delicate nor competent one. He just needs to learn more about soj3. And please don't let him discouraged.

Ssifal

[This message has been edited by Bopple (edited 03-07-2002).]

[Jurdex]

Jaznolg tells you 'they were joking because thats the way most goodies split eq'

Not true at all.

Anyone else find it funny that almost everytime an eq split goes bad its on the evils side, but the goodies are still viewed as the lame eq splitters?

Dornax
Jurdex

[This message has been edited by Jurdex (edited 03-07-2002).]

[Jegzed]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jurdex:
<B>Jaznolg tells you 'they were joking because thats the way most goodies split eq'

Not true at all.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Better would be.. "Its the stereotype of free-bidding which we always call goodie-split".

[Karikhan]

Jaz sooo went out of his way to explain it ... come on Babo! Use common sense!

Also, imho .. this was the WRONG place to bring this ... evils are such a small group, we need to stick together ...

I'd be more than happy to talk to you, Babo ... just send me a tell and I will give you a piece of my mind .. err give you some advice..

sure wish your first post wasnt such a flame .. GRR

-Ambar Squish Squid

[lucuduzur]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Apparently, Babo is a newbie. (but ferverent and earnest one)</font>

yeah...i remember having Dotan, the Brave Warrior, willing to charge and die for an evil cause.

Aye, this ol' duergar, misses that ugly,big,disposable ogre that's willing to protect me ol' and battered body. Ah...time to look for another surface slave...I'm sure Mrizzalazzrazzi will dominate some for me, for a price of course (yeah..me like those shiny jewels and golds).

*Drinking good ol' duergar bloodwhisky while watching so-called-pictures that ssifal can't wait to get his hands on* :P

[Yayaril]

Come join the goodies Babo. When I lead zones, I do a pure random. If you put in time to do a zone, then you deserve a chance at the loot, no matter what level you are. If you aren't high enough level to get a reward for your time, then you aren't high enough level to contribute in doing the zone.

yayaril

[kiryan]

babo i dont know much about you. you look like your a pretty nice guy. you think that you are ignored/mistreated, but i dont think so (maybe a little).

you must go to a zone several times with the same leader before you get really nice items. sometimes you are lucky and get it first time, very rare. most evil leaders dont give eq by rolling dice. many times we dice on best eq between 1 or 2 people who go a lot. be patient and your time will come. get level 50 and your time will come faster.

jaznolg gave you many tells. he probably received 3x as many tells as you sent to him. most leaders hate splitting eq because not everyone is happy in the end.

if you think you can do better, you should try leading. if you dont want to wait for good eq, then you have to lead. you will not get good eq by throwing eq back in leaders face. you will not get good eq by sending a lot of tells.

stick with it, eq will come in time.

[cherzra]

What I think Jaznolg did, was filter the list of initial people who wanted the amulet of sight. He probably removed people who have the spells sense, DI and DM, and then he took a look at how often people had been along previous times.

That's just the way it can go in splits, what I usually do is mention everyone who wanted item X, and then say that players a, b and c are not eligible because they either have it already, don't need it for a prime, etc. Then I'll hand it out or dice it on the remaining people.

If you're new to groups, one of the absolute worst things you can do is bitch about the split. I remember that one TF and manscorps run, I handed the eldritch out to a player who zoned on a daily basis but still didn't have one. His old hp ring went to a newb shaman who was on his first ever trip with me (still a 30hp upgrade from what he had). Lo and behold he starts giving me shit, telling me that I'm full of crap etc. Well he pretty much didn't get very far with evils. I actually liked the guy too before that, and it is more than likely that I would have given him something cool on a subsequent zone trip.

And why post it all here? Bitching to the leader is bad enough, but posting it here - what do you think could come out of it, except for trouble? Just swallow your pride for a trip or two if you get nothing, keep playing your class well and soon you'll have more than you could have dreamed.

Leading isn't easy, you get swamped with tells, people have to come and go, people die, don't pay attention, go AFK, splitting always results in angry people, you have to pay constant attention while everyone else can just sit back and relax, etc. Jaznolg went out of his way to answer your tells there, while other leaders might just have told you "one more word and you can forget ever coming along again".

That being said, you still seem like a cool guy, just try not to bitch about splits and keep playing. We need shamans and you'll have much better eq in a short time.

[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 03-07-2002).]

[Tuga]

Hi Babo,

In Soj3 I decided to play a goodie(I am Tilsen Gnome Enchanter) after playing Tuga Troll Warrior for 2 wipes(Toril and Soj2).

Let me say something and with personal experience on both sides, the evil side of spliting eq is far better, because of 2 reasons:
1- things alwayz get handed down. I mean if someone gets a piece of the horde, (s)he will hand down a piece that the new piece is replacing.

2- in the pure random bid system if you are unlucky with the dice than you will get nice eq very slowly.

I got some nice stuff now but...
My personal experience in the goodie side this wipe has been good and all but for the fact that I have never once won a piece of eq that has been bided and then diced. Many ppl can confirm this(I wont say names but if they want to come foward Im sure they will tell you the same).

For all the goodie side leaders I hold nuthing against ye, its all luck after all

Tuga the Sunless Troll
Tilsen -Battlesage- of The Company

[Galok Icewolf]

I wanted to chime in, just a little.

I think the case is miscommunication here, being as english isn't babo's first language.
Barring that, I'm gonna post some personal rules for eq splitting that I hold near and dear to my heart.

If you DO NOT complain about a eq split, then it is HIGHLY likely you will get a good item next time. I abuse the people i zone with alot, sometimes not giving them an item for 2-3 zones, but they never complain, and so i always try and make sure that they get the hookup eventually.

99.99% of the time, if you want a item for a alt that a main needs, it is not gonna happen, period. Don't bother asking, unless i feel its justified (e.g. bringing a resser so we could do the zone instead of playing yer main).

When you do a zone, with the exception of Jotunheim, there will NOT be enough eq for everyone, don't expect to get a piece of eq, instead go for the fun of doing the zone. When ya do get a piece of eq, it'll be a nice experience.

Lastly when doing a zone, don't expect to get the same item, that someone else has gone to the same zone for 15 times. Seniority, and experience play a large roll in eq splitting. People that know what they are doing and are there doing it alot, are in more need of the eq.

Ignore me if ya want.. just the way I think when splitting....

[Ashiwi]

Tilsen!!!!! Sigh, no wonder we were missing you on the other side. ::sniffle::

[Bopple]

I intended not to post many replies on this. But thinking this is flowing to unintended direction(i don't wanna see any more of goodie/evil eq split issue), i'm adding one.

I'll be to the point:
What really maddens Babo is not about eq itself. He got angry because he felt ignored and humiliated.

Had he been told of the rules of split, he wouldn't get mad at all even if he got none. (that's partially my fault, i also hadn't told him about splitting. and i wasn't there for i had to fly out just prior to Loki)

even if he had gotten none, as i know him(and you'd agree if you know a lil bit of him), he'd say to me, "unluckily i got nothing T_T, but it was so funny. and i'll get many on the nexts! let's go again! you have to come along too!"

but he got flamed to be a greedy asshole and was told just get out of here and go to the goodies.

i don't want to flame jaz for i know how hard it is to lead and split (though i've never led any real zone) nor i don't wanna flame those who flamed babo for there could be misunderstandings.

but before you judge a person and flame him away, you could give a second thought and take a cautious step.


Adding with editing:
One more thing that frustrated Babo was helplessness. He's not good at english at all. So he couldn't explain the situation and defend for himself/express what he thought when getting flamed. That's why he posted that article to tell you he is not the one that you take him for, not to blame or bitch.

[This message has been edited by Bopple (edited 03-07-2002).]

[Tuga]

Ash, you are the sweetest!!!
Who said Touk was sexy?

Tuga the Sunless Troll

[muma]

i'm gonna have to agree with the evils, goodie way of splitting sucks.

[Malacar]

Dunno about you guys, but most of the groups I've been in, it's been handouts. A few bids, but mostly handouts.

And I'd say 75% of the time there is a handmedown.

[Ashiwi]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by muma:
i'm gonna have to agree with the evils, goodie way of splitting sucks.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Depends on which group you get into, and this goes back to a previous post I made involving the whole goodie/evil load of horse manure. It's easier to do bids when a player first starts leading and learning the zones, and open bids are typically the way they start, the same way they typically start with a good raced character (please note the operative word here is "typically"). The leaders who have been doing this for a while tend to migrate toward the handout system; they know the zones and the equipment, they know the players who typically follow them, and they get an idea of who needs what and who has worked the hardest toward that goal. I have done very few bid zones lately, but I have done quite a few zones which have little in the way of equipment that is useable for me which I do not already have. If I am in a group which does handouts and I know the system is fairly smooth (which for me means it's handouts to the character participating in the zone instead of alts, based on time involved, participation, effort, multiple times to the zone with the same leader counts, etc, etc, etc), I have no problem with spending the entire night in a zone, dying multiple times, and knowing that at the end I'm going to be abstaining on the bid, because I know that the effort I put out is going to be recognized down the road somewhere. If I'm going with a group which does open bids, there's a good chance I'll be bidding, sometimes for me, sometimes for somebody else in the group who needs the item.

When somebody is new to this system, it can be kind of difficult to realize that you can put in 10 or more hours "working" toward a goal, but not be considered for the item at the end. It won't be until later, when they've been through the zone multiple times, that they will realize that ten hours applied toward one really nice piece of gear is sometimes only a drop in the bucket.

The only bid groups I've been in lately have been with relatively new leaders, it's not a goodie/evil issue, it's more of a learning issue. The core goodies are just as capable and decent as the core evils.

Maybe I'm biased, the people which comprise Shadows of Imphras are one of the most generous, nicest, easiest to get along with groups I've met in the mud. I don't think I just got lucky and fell in with the right crowd, I think I got lucky and fell in with a more experienced crowd. They've taught me a lot, especially Dornax, and they're easily as tight as everybody says the evils are. I know they're not the only ones on the goodie side who behave like this, and they're not the only ones on the goodie side who do decent eq splits.

If somebody complains about the eq split, don't immediately assume he's a wanker, assume he's just new enough not to know any better (I did it, and my apologies to everybody who had to put up with my learning period). Ten groups down the road, if he's still complaining, flame on.

[istari]

You all are misunderstanding. Babo is not talking about eqs nor splitting rule, but an unfair treatment.

He is a newbie as I do, so he don't know well about the rule you say. And others, Jazonlg, Cherza, etc would know this. Think about playing for fourteen hours expecting any item. But regardless of the item, he didn't get a piece of a word about the RULE nor the reason he had not been included. And the reason he was so angry that he posted it on the board is Jaznolg never said a word of sorry. he had not demanded an apologize, but saying a sorry. But he refused and gsayed 'give a best eq to babo when grouped with babo' suddenly making him so embarrassed.

An addition, he need learn the EXCLUSIVE rule to the newbies.

[This message has been edited by istari (edited 03-07-2002).]

[Disoputlip]

I just got some insane (to me anyway) eq the other day from diceing. (First time I have tried it).

Anyway, it was deeply unfair, and the only reason i thougt it was cool was because I won everything. (I'm a very lucky person).

To the leader of that guild id suggest using Jaz' version, it is much more fair.

THE END
/Disoputlip

[moritheil]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>And why post it all here? Bitching to the leader is bad enough, but posting it here - what do you think could come out of it, except for trouble? Just swallow your pride for a trip or two if you get nothing, keep playing your class well and soon you'll have more than you could have dreamed.

Leading isn't easy, you get swamped with tells, people have to come and go, people die, don't pay attention, go AFK, splitting always results in angry people, you have to pay constant attention while everyone else can just sit back and relax, etc.
[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 03-07-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because he felt that he was getting ignored. Because he felt he was getting opressed, like a second-class citizen, and rather than commiseration, he was being told to just suck it up. Because you all just told him HE was mistaken due to the language barrier, rather than assuming YOU were mistaken. (True, I don't know which either.)

I do not condemn Jaznolg. This post shows him to be no better and no worse than the status quo.

But this does mean something is wrong with the status quo.

[Zrax]

You got off easy babo, i was trying to sit down during a split one time, and forgot the t, so i type si, and it let out a sigh just as the jot warrior belt was given out to someone else. Man i got ripped a new one hahaha, and all i wanted to do was sit down to regen.

[Sarell]

Jaznolg! You are the most infinately patient person in the world!

Safe travels

[Gindipple]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zrax:
You got off easy babo, i was trying to sit down during a split one time, and forgot the t, so i type si, and it let out a sigh just as the jot warrior belt was given out to someone else. Man i got ripped a new one hahaha, and all i wanted to do was sit down to regen.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure sure Zrax, we know you meant to sigh.

Jeeper Jaz you win the ultimate patience award by far.

Goodies/Evils splits phooey, I've played both sides and trust me both sides use both methods there is no one side or the other stuff.

Bottom line is if you don't like the way the leader is splitting eq, go learn to be the leader.

[Kegor]

Wow.. big thread all about the way I split eq. Again! I must be special or something..

-Jaz
patience (master) (93)

[Grintor]

follow sok, babo. he speaks about as much english as you do bro, and he does bids.

bidding is by fair still the fairest, especially in a day when not all of us can dedicate our lives to this game for 8 hours a day. (get a life, btw)

[Sargax]

My two cents in. Jaznolg was kind enough to let me tag along with his group a couple of times which was really good experience for this lowly troll war. And both times, I thought Jaznolg was an extremely good leader. It's hard being a leader which I think gives the leader the right to decide how to split things up and each time I felt he did it fairly. As a fairly new player (Sarg being my first ever muddy char) I learned a lot going on zones with Jaznolg and that is more valuable.

[Elseenas]

Personally I've been in groups that have done both.

Actually I find handouts to be the most fair for one and only one reason:

You've done a run eight times with the same leader trying for a particular item, if you loose the bid every time--unlucky or whatnot--who has contributed more to that group and getting that item over the *eight* runs?

------------------
Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[Bopple]

What's wrong with you, guys?

After checking replies here and responses online, i got totally astonished.

Babo said about unfair treatment upon him and misunderstanding about his character.

Then here are the responses summarized:
1. Shut up. Then just get lost and run to goodies.
2. Another hilarious eq whiner!
3. Shut the * up about eq split.
4. LOL. Give the best eq to him whenever we zone!
5. Nooo, everything belongs to me! I'm gonna protest every split from now on! :P
6. This proves goodie split is better than evil's!
7. No, evil's is better! You won't get any on bidding if unlucky.
8. Leader has the right to split as he fit.
9. Greedy asshole.
10. Feh, it's always about eq.

i don't see any of these is really relevent to the core of the matter. it's not about eq! Don't think eq is everything for anyone only because it is for you. and wtf sneers! you guys sicken and strangle me to death.

Goodbye to the ones who think it's only eq that exist in their world. you guys totally succeeded in persuading me into believing there cannot be any real humanism at all. i'm gonna logon just to taxi my friends from time to time.

i think babo will march on for he doesn't wanna give in and wimp out. the ones with sane mind still, please help him.

Ssifal

[This message has been edited by Bopple (edited 03-08-2002).]

[Ragorn]

Sojourn's equipment distribution system probably seems very alien to new players. When you play Final Fantasy and you kill a boss, you get an item. When I play D&D, if we find a magic sword and I'm the only fighter, I get it... people don't get it for characters in other campaigns just because they've played with the DM before. When you play Diablo and you kill Baal, everyone pretty much has the same chance to snap up whatever drops.

On Sojourn, you can spend 4 hours in a zone and be told when you're done "Sorry, you don't get anything, I did this zone 10 times before I got what I wanted."

Don't ridicule the poor guy. He thought he was going into this with a fair chance to get what he wanted. I know, god forbid someone think they have a chance to get a useful item only the FIRST time they do a zone. He saw Jeg do a seemingly-random dice roll that didn't include him, and got understandably upset. It doesn't help that English isn't his first language, and nobody knows how much of that conversation he fully grasped.

It takes a big committment to Sojourn to be able to put in hours of your time for no reward, and understand that it's for a greater good.

- Ragorn

[Nida]

Wow, everyone seems to be ignoring Bopple. Every time he clarifies Babo's point, someone responds with something about equipment. ^_^ Don't worry, bro. I hear you.

[Zellin]

Hmmm, what I get involved in here? =)

[Kifle]

I really dont care about how the eq is split to tell you the truth, but on one side you have handouts...person does zone 8 times finally gets what he wants...person does the zone 1 time, doesnt get what he wants...maybe not anything. When you put time into the equation of who gets what here you forget the fact that each zone is different, each group will most likely be different, therefor everybody wasted X hours doing the same zone. Just because person A did the zone more, doesn't necessarily give him the right to a better piece of eq, that just means if he doesn't get it on a dicing he will have to come back if it is that important to him. Person B made every sacrifice that person A did in the same group; therefor, giving him just as much right to the said piece of eq. Now on the other hand, if you let a lvl 35+ lvl tag along on a zone and he doesnt recieve anything from the zone that is okie, cuz he really didn't contribute that much to the group i would imagine, but a shaman w/gheal adds a lot to the safty and success of a zone group. If I had done jot 20 times on toril or S2 would I have more right to a piece of eq if it were my first run on S3? Probably not.

Either way, I dont really care, its not that important and I will be here for some time and eventually get what I want anyway.

Kifle

[Lyt]

I don't think any gear (especially warrior eq) should have DI. Just my personal thoughts off on a tangent somewhere because of this thread.

[old depok]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nida:
Wow, everyone seems to be ignoring Bopple. Every time he clarifies Babo's point, someone responds with something about equipment. ^_^ Don't worry, bro. I hear you.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seems to me that the following would help:

Leaders should make it clear to the group prior to the zone how they intend to distribute the EQ.

My personal (and limited) experience is that the bidding system works well if limited to the ability to win one item only until everyone has won something.

If someone in the group has been doing the zone for a while trying for a particular item and has not won it, the leader is well within their rights to give that item to the person and should tell the group ahead of time that it will happen. something along the lines of "hey whateveryournameis you want to come along to X zone to help us get the spanky axe for whatshisname?"

Even if you are going to handout the gear it is probably best to let everyone know that ahead of time.

Also, if you are bringing a new person into a group who you regularly group with and know the rules for eq split, TELL THE NEW PERSON HOW IT WORKS. This way they don't have to ask the leader and get themselves flamed because they don't know.

If you are new to the group and are not sure how the spit will happen, ask BEFORE the split has taken place and not on gsay. If you know someone in the group ask them not the leader. If you don't, ask the leader at a time when things are slow and not when they are in the middle of receiving 5000 tells on what people want.

Last but not least, if you are new to zoning go for the fun of learning the zone, how the different leaders lead, getting spanked and doing the CR, and getting to know how things work. Don't expect to get any EQ from the group and you will always be happy with any item you get.

Be appreciative of the experience.

A special thanks to those people who lead by the way. You typically make the experience a good one. and thanks for your patience.

[Rynlaeis]

Funny how it's 'not about equipment' but most of the posts seem to just ignore the fact that Babo's post was not about equipment. If it's not about equipment, then stop getting so upset about something that's not about equipment, ne?

Don't worry Bopple, some of us have read through the entire thread and actually know what's going on, you're not alone.

[Baikalisan]

Ok i must add to this.

Babo felt ignored and cheated. Fine. Jaz explained through tells why he did what he did. Babo didn't understand. Sorry to hear that, but in truth i feel that Jaz was very patient and explained why he did what he did better than 90% of other leaders would have. I group with Jaznolg almost daily, Jot Brass DK or IC Vault Avernus hell it dont matter where. There have been days where the group he is leading does 5 zones in a row and yet i still dont get any eq, and there have been times he's handed me stuff that he knew i needed even tho i may not have been the most deserving in the group at that time. Thats just the way it goes sometimes.

Fact of the matter is: The more you follow the same leader into zones and show him/her that you know your role and how to play your class the more eq and praise you will gain. It all comes in time.
Patience young grasshoppa.

[Rynlaeis]

I got the impression that Babo posted this thread so that people would realize that he wasn't intending to be greedy. I don't think it had anything to do with him wanting equipment or feeling cheated because he didn't get any. He made the point, several times, that he was upset for not being told about how things would work. I don't see why so many people are trying to give him lessons on 'the way it is' and that he should just 'get used to it,' given that his post is not (I believe) intended to be a rant or a whine, and he never said anything that would indicate that he wasn't now fully aware of 'the way it is.'

His post was, I believe, intended to show the truth of what happened to all those who thought he was being greedy.

[Rynlaeis]

Double post.

[This message has been edited by Rynlaeis (edited 03-08-2002).]

[Icenacir]

what happened to him,babo? lets see.

babo 45 lvl shaman,zellin 38 cleric?,elet 46 lvl cleric.and turra(sounds like troll shaman name :P) they aint alt char. most 40+ casters got jot eq already. at least one of them. babo went to jot as many as zellin or elet.
and i think babo wanted to get one of ogrehide,ringmail,polkadot not token(he got 2 already),red dragon armor?(i dont think so)

they started from jot. zellin left with ogrehide after thrym. elet joined when about they was gonna do loki. and he left with ringmail after loki. group went to um2. and tura joined. and turra had a polkadot. after um2 they went to 9hell. then split.
this what i heard.

im sure a shaman doesnt need a sight of amulet. jaz was right, to give amulet to tod or cherzra.
but dont agree for spliting another caster gear.
he was zoning with jaz for 13 hours.

yeah, as jaz said, everyone isnt perfect. and i understand how babo's mood.

so my point being. that could be happened soometimes. no need to post

[Kegor]

In reflection of the jot split I agree Ice.. Babo should have gotten something better I suppose. But it is over and done with.. thats what next time is all about. I will not hold anything against him for his questions or confusions and will be happy to take him along when he is needed and take this issue at face value. I understand he wasn't really complaining about the split and felt ignored and confused. Nobodys fault and I would consider this a non-issue and a big post about nothing. Good day

-Jaz

[Blung]

Reading these posts bring back some crazy memories when S3 first started. How Evils twink some of eq. Twink - doing the same zone/mob over and over again each boot. Lost so many exp because ress quest haven't come in yet. By the time ress quest came in, I would guess each tank die at least 30+ times. All this for the glory of being evils. "Been there, done that. What next?"


Blung take no prisoner.

[babo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cherzra:

And why post it all here? Bitching to the leader is bad enough,


hm..
why done it postd in here?
it cuz Jaz said

"Jaznolg group-says 'i decide who gets it.. and i try my best
to give it to the most needing and deserving person "
Jaznolg group-says 'im sorry you dont like it'

and all agreed he's tell.
i also agree it but him next said

Jaznolg group-says 'i musta missed what u said.. im dealing with babo.. he is very pissed off about not getting the best eq from zones today'

Jaznolg group-says 'be sure to give babo the best item from every zone too'

i wonder him made me greed..

i asked why don't give bid chance. but him just said and him made core to eq! i'm not said that

it happen Jaz don't said he's thot. when i asked it till 14hours him kept silence

and we gone (ivory zone) (jot) (dk vault) ( um2) (spider ring zone) (9hell)

only him done dice two time. jot/9hell

i have bad english.

i don't wanna ssifal lefing.. plz don't say that.

Jaz you have good play only toril you nothing not special us world.

i like your leadership you have good play and fast.


we first done split. and i asked. why don't give me to bid chance.

and fianlly him said. it in the first page.

i feeling evil almost people mading babo bad and they wann mading Jaz he's friend.

it cuz. jaz said/made babo greed.

but i know jaz not bad him good.
but him missed. i don't wanna anyone hurting like ssifal..




[This message has been edited by babo (edited 03-09-2002).]

[Enhevqe]

I guess I've been away for too long

I would rather care about my dog more than a post like this, but our little guy Babo seems to have some points. What is the freaking purpose of mudding anyhow? Why not stick to the first person RPGs? Cuz we get to enjoy companionships with strangers, and get to make friends with them and so forth. I don't know about you guys but I feel what Jaz has done is totally seperates himself from the rest of peeps like me. To do 13 hours of zoning and get red dragon armor as a token..? hmm when you are one of the top contributor(levelwise)...? Well, It's more than enough for me to take for sure. I understand why Babo feels totally alienated.
I know it's difficult to listen to every newbie whine and suit everyone's needs when you lead, but there's a line of fairness you've gotta meet. That seperates a great leader from a knowlegable ones. Remember not everyone's mudding for EQs.

Did i sound too goodish?? argh..

my 2 cents

Enhevqe

[torkur]

Listen to old depok.....

As a relative noob to zoning/eqing in larger groups, if you tell me that I'm helping someone get/quest something from the start, I'll come if I can and don't mind getting nothing as long as I'm treated with respect and will generally have a fun time doing it.

If you decide at split that the special item belongs to one person after 2 spanks and 5 hours of helping zone that it's "just because I say so" .....it's the leader's decision, but there are enough other leaders and things to do that I might not be so willing to help you when you try to zone next.

The senority thing has validation, but you can't just assume everyone knows that so-and-so has done jot with you 10 times and needs loki ringmail more than anyone else......

[Karikhan]

I think my main point is this .. if it concerned Babo so much (to appear not greedy) .. why, after Jaznolg publicly apologized... did he (Babo) rant some more??

This whole thread is stupid as hell .. and should have been resolved on the mud ...

Bringing it into the light didn't make Babo any friends, regardless of his intents .. sure, he will probably get groups, after all what a NICE spell group heal is in zones ...

1) Don't argue about eq splits .. if you think the leader is unfair .. try leading.. you will soon see what a pain in the ass it is ...

2) If you feel cheated .. ask other group members about it .. don't spam the leader...

3) Jaznolg was extremely patient, moreso than he should have been (snicker)... knowing other leaders, a group member would have been ungrouped ASAP if the same thing happened.

4) The above has all been discussed already and I know it .. but y'all know Ambar .. she is a bigmouth Ogre and wants her opinion known

/close thread please

-Jen

[Bopple]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Karikhan:
<B>I think my main point is this .. if it concerned Babo so much (to appear not greedy) .. why, after Jaznolg publicly apologized... did he (Babo) rant some more??
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

because he wanted to post his own explanation rather than captured log file though i advised him not to post anymore. anyway, didn't you find his illegible post cute?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">This whole thread is stupid as hell .. and should have been resolved on the mud ... </font>

i agree it should have been. but stupid? how you gonna prove you're innocent while many in the mud believe you to be greedy and sneer at you behind your back? in either way you won't be able to play anymore especially when involved with a prominent personnel like jaz. then you will just suck it up and leave?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Bringing it into the light didn't make Babo any friends, regardless of his intents .. sure, he will probably get groups, after all what a NICE spell group heal is in zones ... </font>

assuming that he would have been unable to solve the situation online, there'd be no friend anyway. he won't see any problem joining a group for there are many ppl who weren't there. but then again, they will hear the rumor that he's greedy eventually and then they'd also sneer at him behind his back. and see the one that in the group. jaz, tod, verzul and cherzra. who won't believe it?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">1) Don't argue about eq splits .. if you think the leader is unfair .. try leading.. you will soon see what a pain in the ass it is ... </font>

again i agree with you. but i still say it's not about eq itself.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">2) If you feel cheated .. ask other group members about it .. don't spam the leader... </font>

i have to agree once more. but he didn't bug jaz when jot finished. he asked jaz when it's all over - like 10 hrs later.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">3) Jaznolg was extremely patient, moreso than he should have been (snicker)... knowing other leaders, a group member would have been ungrouped ASAP if the same thing happened.</font>

yes he was more patient than his usual self or any other leaders. but why he was? because he was in the so good mood and condition after all that 13 hr leading? i don't think so. then what compelled him to be patient with him? i guess you know why.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>4) The above has all been discussed already and I know it .. but y'all know Ambar .. she is a bigmouth Ogre and wants her opinion known

/close thread please

-Jen</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it's been discussed so many times. that's one of the reasons Ice and i advised babo not to post the original article.

but then again how many times ppl assert it's not about eq, there are some who want to see only -eq- after all that big thread, lingering doubt still hovers upon your mind.

Lastly, there are some other matters i was tempted to flame about(not about your post). but i abstained for i don't want to put this into more of turmoil. so as you say and i agree wholeheartedly, let's close this thread.

[This message has been edited by Bopple (edited 03-09-2002).]

[Koldaz]

I have to admire Babo for posting this. It took some guts, especially when evils are such a closed group because if you get a bad name it just screws any chances you may ever have for zoning. You'd have to start with another char all over, probably on the goodie side.

I want to add leaders do have responsibility to the people who group with them and not just the people who group most of the time with them. I have seen too many eq splits where all the leaders closest friends won all of the spanky items through bidding and maintained a facade of fairness the whole time. I have seen too many leaders deceive and lie about splitting the eq.

People also like to say that the leader can do whatever he/she wants to with the equipment (split, etc). I do not agree. If you are going to claim an item for yourself or someone else, it should be stated up front. We like to say,"Who cares about the equipment?" but its a waste of time for many people when you are not up front in the beginning. Its general sneakiness when you are not up front about claiming.

The posturing about fairness and splitting eq on the mud is humorous to watch. All the double dealing. Just like life, actually.

Koldar/Koldaz