Downgrading of EQ and why it utterly sucks.

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Jegzed
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Downgrading of EQ and why it utterly sucks.

Postby Jegzed » Sun Apr 28, 2002 11:41 am

I'm a whiner...

[This message has been edited by Jegzed (edited 04-28-2002).]
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Postby rylan » Sun Apr 28, 2002 5:31 pm

lol. Damn, and I thought this was gonna be a good flame thread. damn you for deleting your post Image
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Postby Yayaril » Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:12 pm

I still haven't discovered what gear got changed..

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Postby Jegzed » Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:39 pm

Most !summon gear are no longer !summon.

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Postby Yayaril » Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:41 pm

Wow, I thought they were policing what gear was entering the world that was !summon and had come to a balance of what gear should be !summon and what shouldn't be !summon.

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Postby Corth » Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:56 pm

Feh looks like they're trying to make the illusionist class be as boring as enchanters Image

Corth

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Postby Malacar » Sun Apr 28, 2002 11:46 pm

What else is new Corth.

I'm getting a bit burned out on being forced to have so many god damn spells up.


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Postby rachaz » Mon Apr 29, 2002 1:28 am

Why just take away? Add some ac to the shells, make them not transient or something else. Why do all items have to go the way of grey suedes and frostbites? I am pissed that these items I worked hard for are no longer !summon. But I notice that now that !summon was removed, the game just snapped into balance...
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Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 29, 2002 5:51 am

well i think there was a vast disparity in the number and availability of !summon eq for goodies, i fail to see how removing !summon from numerous eq's balanced the game.

There still what 20-30 surtur's out there? 4 !summon tia eq. plenty of heartstones. removing all !summon might be balancing, removing it from all but say tia eq might be balancing, but leaving !bit heartstones just makes us slay saks for the next 50 boots.

In 2 months, what will the point have been?
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Apr 29, 2002 7:23 am

...is this really a big deal?



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Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 29, 2002 7:31 am

not really, so i ask what is the point? to do saks more often and juggle heartstones?

If everything lost !summon that be one thing, to leave relatively easy to get !bits !summon gear in the game makes the changes seemingly pointless.
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Postby Jegzed » Mon Apr 29, 2002 8:13 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>...is this really a big deal?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, because now my set LOOOKS ugly.



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rylan
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Postby rylan » Mon Apr 29, 2002 12:04 pm

I don't think you'll see hitters holding heartstones to be !summon.
Those things have traditionally been used by casters, and I'm sure it will continue that way. Thats about all we got on my side anyway as a cleric for !summon eq.

[This message has been edited by rylan (edited 04-29-2002).]
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Postby Jhorr » Mon Apr 29, 2002 1:15 pm

There aren't many situations where !summon will really save your life. We used to do CC all the time before !summon gear had infiltrated the mud, without sequester too.
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Postby moritheil » Mon Apr 29, 2002 1:43 pm

part of a trend imho.

At the start of this boot I had noticed a couple items that were !summon became reflagged.

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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Apr 29, 2002 1:58 pm

!Summon should be very difficult to come by, agreed. The only thing that makes it a big issue, I think, is that the shells necklaces were nice gear. I would have traded certain parts of my anatomy to get one before I finally got a piece of !summon gear of my own. There's probably quite a few people out there that gave up a lot to get one, and now they might be regretting it. It would have upset me a tad, if it had been me, and that's not easy to do.
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Postby Cardolan » Mon Apr 29, 2002 3:38 pm

I don't understand why losing !summon on one of the best neck items in the game is such a big deal. It still owns.

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Postby rachaz » Mon Apr 29, 2002 4:35 pm

You ask if this is really such a big deal. If it is not "a big deal", why do it? If taking !sum off of shells is not going to change the balance of the game, why change the item? It has been in the game as !sum, it should be left as !sum. Like I said earlier and Mori seems to see, this is a trend of Sojourn. It is a VERY big deal to me. There are ways to limit the item in the game, change Zog's load rate, make the quest item rare, or other methods. Changing the item should be the very last way to add balance.
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Postby Yayaril » Mon Apr 29, 2002 5:44 pm

They did say they changed items this time. That's an improvement to before when things were changed without information being put in the news. I remember combating a cleric mob, thinking I was immune to summoning; I had to go to the bathroom and when I came back, I was a corpse.

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Postby Ilshadrial » Mon Apr 29, 2002 7:02 pm

Remove all !summon gear please, so

a) people will shut up
b) zone creators can make more cleric mobs
c) will make interesting cr(s)
d) makes sequester very nice


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Postby Shevarash » Mon Apr 29, 2002 7:27 pm

Shrug, I was just asking - it's not my sphere.

I can tell you one thing though...downngrading items occassioally isn't an evil trend, it's just a neccessary requirement. Always has been that way, always will.

Now, that said: If you feel a *specific* item was changed in error, feel free to post it here or email it to Cyric.



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Postby Jegzed » Mon Apr 29, 2002 7:59 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ilshadrial:
<B>Remove all !summon gear please, so

a) people will shut up
b) zone creators can make more cleric mobs
c) will make interesting cr(s)
d) makes sequester very nice


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just removing !summon is bad.. and I'd feel very much for anyone who have done Staff of Magi quest if its removed..

I absolutely HATE sequester as a spell, as I don't like one spell which completely nullifies one aspect of mob strategy.

Ie, on a mud with completely no-summon gear, Sequester makes CC as easy as CC was when PFU worked there...




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Postby Corth » Mon Apr 29, 2002 8:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ilshadrial:
<B>Remove all !summon gear please, so

a) people will shut up
b) zone creators can make more cleric mobs
c) will make interesting cr(s)
d) makes sequester very nice


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sequester is nicest when i dont have to cast it Image

Btw, Shev, I'm not whining about removing !summon from certain pieces of eq.. but i dont understand the criteria that was used to make these decisions. I mean.. most mages I know have spare magi staffs.. Just think, each person wearing two silver bands brought two !summon items into the game. They grow on trees.. yet they still have the flag.. meanwhile batskull earrings, which were removed from the game (or moved maybe?) months ago because they were !summon (so they are ridiculously rare now), had the flag removed. Saks heartstone which is easy as pie to get has the flag, seashell necklaces which are a little more difficult to get, dont. I guess I don't get it either Image

Corth

[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 04-29-2002).]
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Postby rachaz » Mon Apr 29, 2002 9:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>Shrug, I was just asking - it's not my sphere.

I can tell you one thing though...downngrading items occassioally isn't an evil trend, it's just a neccessary requirement. Always has been that way, always will.

Now, that said: If you feel a *specific* item was changed in error, feel free to post it here or email it to Cyric.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I certainly do think that two specific items were changed in error. They are the two items I mentioned above. My reasoning is similar to Corth's. The two items are difficult to get and both are missing a great deal now that !sum was removed from them. Batskull earrings, I will not spend a great deal of time talking about because I think that they are very limited and "impossible" to get as of now. Shells, I will discuss. They are still good neck eq. But there is better in the game. While questing them may not be the most difficult thing to do, it is time consuming. And time spent should be proportional to the rewards. Zog was made increasingly more difficult to stop twinking as this wipe commensed and now made so that he will not be done. Also, the zone that the quest piece comes from was made more difficult due to wingbuffet. People do not go into that particular zone just to get the Shell quest item and now they need a better group to fight the zone. So, a high level group must go get the quest piece then, a person will spend several weeks looking for the quest mob. After finding the quest mob, it takes (for the average player) another group of 15 to kill to complete the quest mob. Finally, the item must be quested.

The way I make this quest sound, people will probably say I am making it sound harder than it is. I don't think it is easy. I know there are harder quests that I've done. However, this quest is worth what the Shell was. The time and groups efforts to kill the mobs required is certainly worth an item that was not unbalancing. Like I said before, if the shell was made better to replace the !summon that would be one thing. But I do not even think this is necessary. The same zones will be done with or without !summon. It just makes the game more fun to have it.

I think that maybe this change was done to have people roll more illusionists. I don't think that this will happen. People like to play the classes they chose to play. I am pretty sure few people are now going to roll up an illusionist just so they can sequester an entire group.

In conclusion, I can not see the value of removing the !summon. I have seen things downgraded in the past and understood. These are two items I can not see. I ask of the area gods to please reconsider their choice. If you would like to speak to me on the mud about more of my reasoning, I will gladly discuss it. Please also post your reasoning on this thread if you have time. It would be greatly appreciated to hear your point of views to make the discussion less one-sided.

Thank you.

Rachaz
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Postby belleshel » Tue Apr 30, 2002 2:02 pm

I'm in agreement with Corth and others that this change was short-sighted. I wear shells, and I have absolutely no problem with them losing the !summon flag, I actually think its a good idea. I think the real mistake is the decision to leave it on Magi staves, Surturs, Heartstones. I think tiamat gear deserves the !summon flag, and perhaps when Erlan returns a piece from there might, but why leave it on these other easy and numerous items? whats the point of the change? Contrary to what Rylan said, warriors will be gathering Heartstones Image It's also has made Surtur (already one of the nicest pieces in the game), an 'ultimate' piece that all warriors want/need, and Im so not a fan of everyone having the exact same kit. Being able to put together multiple kits of roughly the same 'power' is something the mud should always strive for, originality.
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Postby Zoldren » Tue Apr 30, 2002 2:23 pm

if batskulls where over powered i never noticed, they have basicaly the same stats as another peice of eq which is easier to get, the only dif being or was, !sum... then changed the load of the earring ... scince mob was changed/item.. i have tryd locating it... if at best i have only seen 5 in game at any givin time. yup must have been over powerd.....
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Postby Dalar » Wed May 01, 2002 6:25 pm

How about making sequester !summon only and adding another spell to make a pc !fold/dim etc. ? Why? So we can transport our people like before and not worry about being summoned by mobs Image

As for !sum, get rid of it all. It helps me kill people in the Fig... uh. arena.
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Postby Eilorn » Sun May 05, 2002 1:05 am

I am not in favor of down-grading equipment, even though I've only been burned a couple times by it: if you think an item needs changing, make a new item (different name/description/ansi/whatever) to take it's place, and not load the original item ever again. Over time they will disappear through lost corpses, simply losing them, or retirement.

Eilorn.


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Postby Jurdex » Sun May 05, 2002 1:20 am

I don't see the big deal, really.

EQ adjustments have been part of the game since its inception.

I don't see anyone complaining when items get upgraded.. all the procs that have been added or tweaked on weapons? How about re-tooling the stats of some items so that the value warrants their fights..

I'd rather see items tweaked than made !load. I think stopping an item from loading (ie: Torins) is really lame.

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