what's the point? wouldn't it be much easier to vary leveling rate by adjusting exp tables? or class/race/level based multipliers at kill? how many un-necessary calculations and variable manipulations does the present exp code cost? for what purpose? not to mention the number of places exp code is probably calculated.
some things that would prolly change if we eliminated some of the exp code:
twinked melee alts won't be getting that uber dam exp and leveling like mofos.
wont be having discussions over who gets to headbutt/dual and who has to tank
exp gain rate would be very easily quantified
missing the kill = missing all exp
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-13-2002).]
exp, tank, melee/spell damage, stone, heal
-
Gromikazer
- Sojourner
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:01 am
contribute more?
that's subjective. just because a warrior goes afk while swinging a twilight and rescue triggers does not mean he's contributing more than the chanter or cleric working their asses off to keep the party alive.
it does benefit the already rich when it comes to making alts, but that's the way the game has always been.
my real question is that in order to get stone/scale xp do i have to still be in the room? when doing xp i tend to spend most of my time out of the room memming during a fight.
anybody know?
that's subjective. just because a warrior goes afk while swinging a twilight and rescue triggers does not mean he's contributing more than the chanter or cleric working their asses off to keep the party alive.
it does benefit the already rich when it comes to making alts, but that's the way the game has always been.
my real question is that in order to get stone/scale xp do i have to still be in the room? when doing xp i tend to spend most of my time out of the room memming during a fight.
anybody know?
nothing personal man, but i take that rather personally. you think i am a warrior because i don't work? that i don't bust my ass?
i don't use rescue triggers. i DO use an alias, and during EVERY zone i run i sit at my keyboard hell and high water, watching what happens. i type look, and make the mob is engaged with a tank class. i type group and check to make sure the mages aren't for some reason hurt. i watch my bash assignment to make sure the group doesn't get spanked.
to generalize warriors like you did is really, not nice. im not angry, but i DO want recognition that not all of us play the class that way. and when my warrior gets level 50, and i decide to make a cleric class - i shall play the same way. hours on end dedicated to being the best player i can be and keeping the group alive.
why'd we get dissed? bash work is not different than stoneskin/dragonscales duty, which is the major role of the chanter AFTER combat is engaged usually. thanks for the globes, but once the fight starts - all i need is stone/scales, possibly a blind, but lots of classes have blind. i don't argue that the cleric holds one of the most vital roles in the survival of any group, but chanters? cosmetic at best. amps and a good cleric i'd much rather have than a bad cleric and a good chanter.
------------------
In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
i don't use rescue triggers. i DO use an alias, and during EVERY zone i run i sit at my keyboard hell and high water, watching what happens. i type look, and make the mob is engaged with a tank class. i type group and check to make sure the mages aren't for some reason hurt. i watch my bash assignment to make sure the group doesn't get spanked.
to generalize warriors like you did is really, not nice. im not angry, but i DO want recognition that not all of us play the class that way. and when my warrior gets level 50, and i decide to make a cleric class - i shall play the same way. hours on end dedicated to being the best player i can be and keeping the group alive.
why'd we get dissed? bash work is not different than stoneskin/dragonscales duty, which is the major role of the chanter AFTER combat is engaged usually. thanks for the globes, but once the fight starts - all i need is stone/scales, possibly a blind, but lots of classes have blind. i don't argue that the cleric holds one of the most vital roles in the survival of any group, but chanters? cosmetic at best. amps and a good cleric i'd much rather have than a bad cleric and a good chanter.
------------------
In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B>i don't argue that the cleric holds one of the most vital roles in the survival of any group, but chanters? cosmetic at best.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Cosmetic at best?
<B>i don't argue that the cleric holds one of the most vital roles in the survival of any group, but chanters? cosmetic at best.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Cosmetic at best?
All i can say from recent experience playing different classes is the system seems to work ok for everyone except for enchanters (perhaps bards/elementlists too) heh.. enchanter exp tables suck bad.. even soloing for some reason i hardly get any exp... level 24 now and it has taken a lot of work.. i can get a war/pal/ap to the same level in about 1/10th the time 
.. even with newbie eq its easier to level... don't understand why they decided it should be this way...
------------------
Mishri }-Sentinel-{ Shades of Twilight
.. even with newbie eq its easier to level... don't understand why they decided it should be this way...------------------
Mishri }-Sentinel-{ Shades of Twilight
yes.
they make zones EASY.
i credited globe and stones, but what else?
warrior/cleric. you get enough of the two, in some combination or another, and most zones are doable, although 1-2 chanters can make a huge difference.
my point was that after stone/globe - the things they do are just nice. faerie fire? nice. ray? nice. haste? nice. detects? nice. fly? nice.
the 'nice' effects can mostly be replaced with potions or eq in some way. as for zones - if you REALLY wanna ballstothawall it - run vault a few times with an all warrior/cleric/shaman/bard/whatever combination group, no shamans needed - get a bunch of amps. lets say 30 of em. thats prolly enough to run a good number of zones with an enchanter. i never said chanters weren't needed or wanted, i'm saying they arent all powerful. i was mainly offended by the remark that warriors don't do anything while chanters keep the group alive. bs. warriors and clerics keep the group alive. chanters make it easy.
------------------
In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
they make zones EASY.
i credited globe and stones, but what else?
warrior/cleric. you get enough of the two, in some combination or another, and most zones are doable, although 1-2 chanters can make a huge difference.
my point was that after stone/globe - the things they do are just nice. faerie fire? nice. ray? nice. haste? nice. detects? nice. fly? nice.
the 'nice' effects can mostly be replaced with potions or eq in some way. as for zones - if you REALLY wanna ballstothawall it - run vault a few times with an all warrior/cleric/shaman/bard/whatever combination group, no shamans needed - get a bunch of amps. lets say 30 of em. thats prolly enough to run a good number of zones with an enchanter. i never said chanters weren't needed or wanted, i'm saying they arent all powerful. i was mainly offended by the remark that warriors don't do anything while chanters keep the group alive. bs. warriors and clerics keep the group alive. chanters make it easy.
------------------
In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
cosmetic at best?? BOO!!! HISS!!!!
saying enchanters are cosmetic, and nice to have is NUTS!
i CHALLEBGE you to zone without one!! small zones, sure ... I can stone for small zones .. but BIG zones???
saying what class is more important than the other is just NUTS! that's like the mechanic, metalsmith and the electrician arguing over who's job is more important .. the mech says well my engines make the plane fly ... well my electricity STARTS the engine .. well MY airframe holds it all together .. is ABSURD ... tho i do tend to agree warrior is the easiest to play ... you can set rescue triggers, bash, etc .. but lemme see u trigger a whole zone for ANY caster (oops d-scales ran out in battle but the scaler is out of room memming)
bleh my 2 coppers...
------------------
Ambar -= Squishin de Squid =-
saying enchanters are cosmetic, and nice to have is NUTS!
i CHALLEBGE you to zone without one!! small zones, sure ... I can stone for small zones .. but BIG zones???
saying what class is more important than the other is just NUTS! that's like the mechanic, metalsmith and the electrician arguing over who's job is more important .. the mech says well my engines make the plane fly ... well my electricity STARTS the engine .. well MY airframe holds it all together .. is ABSURD ... tho i do tend to agree warrior is the easiest to play ... you can set rescue triggers, bash, etc .. but lemme see u trigger a whole zone for ANY caster (oops d-scales ran out in battle but the scaler is out of room memming)
bleh my 2 coppers...
------------------
Ambar -= Squishin de Squid =-
if tank needs scale
and caster out of room
then stand
move to room
cast spell
return and remem
else
cast spell
--------------------
we used to do vault all the time without chanters.
all we used was shaman prestone before fights, IF that much.
not all of us were spoiled on cake.
------------------
In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
and caster out of room
then stand
move to room
cast spell
return and remem
else
cast spell
--------------------
we used to do vault all the time without chanters.
all we used was shaman prestone before fights, IF that much.
not all of us were spoiled on cake.
------------------
In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
Using Vault as your comparison is faulty. Few 'zones', meaning high-level type eq zones, come as easy as Vault.
That said, I'll agree. It's possible to zone without enchanters if everyone in the group has dusties. Your estimate of 30 dusties requires that the zone have been done 10 times already, and provides 6 hitters enough globes for 5 fights. Malice, Archie, Mahdrel, and each room of Rhemo's straight up and you'd manage that.
G'luck.
Enchanters serve an unbelievably vital role in groups. To claim they are cosmetic is faulty, as you'd need to bring 4x as many healers to make up for the lack of 1 enchanter.
Auxilliary xp allows these classes - yes clerics and enchanters to benefit from performing their vital roles. I wouldn't object to removing some of the melee auxilliary xp or lowering it - hitters have an easy enough time as is.
Sylvos
p.s. You would find it VERY difficult to gather enough ampoules to do a zone like fire plane, brass or jot invasion without an enchanter. Cosmetic is ridiculous.
That said, I'll agree. It's possible to zone without enchanters if everyone in the group has dusties. Your estimate of 30 dusties requires that the zone have been done 10 times already, and provides 6 hitters enough globes for 5 fights. Malice, Archie, Mahdrel, and each room of Rhemo's straight up and you'd manage that.
G'luck.
Enchanters serve an unbelievably vital role in groups. To claim they are cosmetic is faulty, as you'd need to bring 4x as many healers to make up for the lack of 1 enchanter.
Auxilliary xp allows these classes - yes clerics and enchanters to benefit from performing their vital roles. I wouldn't object to removing some of the melee auxilliary xp or lowering it - hitters have an easy enough time as is.
Sylvos
p.s. You would find it VERY difficult to gather enough ampoules to do a zone like fire plane, brass or jot invasion without an enchanter. Cosmetic is ridiculous.
from your previous posts you are still about 40 and havent zoned yet with a chanter?
me and ossis used to rock brass, para'd everything.
you NEED scale for a lot of things.
enchanters are not cosmetic, not in the least.
warriors are the EASIEST class to play in the game, that's fact. i've had a warrior for just as long as you bub.
but enough of this. this is a stupid argument. if you do NOT Play an enchanter or zone regularly you can not appreciate the value of one, or how much patience it takes.
me and ossis used to rock brass, para'd everything.
you NEED scale for a lot of things.
enchanters are not cosmetic, not in the least.
warriors are the EASIEST class to play in the game, that's fact. i've had a warrior for just as long as you bub.
but enough of this. this is a stupid argument. if you do NOT Play an enchanter or zone regularly you can not appreciate the value of one, or how much patience it takes.
you can dismiss me if you want. sylvos made a good point, and i was going to agree.
you know, im really going to stop right here. i dont know you, or care about you enough to argue. the point is - just because you can play a character without doing a damn thing means nothing to me. just that i would never trust you, because you are lazy. like a 14 year old calling himself a hacker because he has a few scripts.
i could care less that you can write a few scripts to do your work. i could too, but i don't. i play for real, and i pull my own weight. congratulations on your ability.
i played this mud for 4 years on telnet before i even used a client, and ive been using mudmaster and zmud for almost 4 years now.
sylvos, you make a good point - and your rant is on target. i just used the first thing that came to mind, and that would be what i have experienced so far this wipe.
ive logged thousands of hours of ptime on this mud, and i know as well as most what the classes can do. my original retort was to his comments of a warrior being just as useful when run by triggers as not. his defense at making his class seem so damn important just pissed me off. this mud went on for years without dscales, while globe has, and always WILL be important, there are other ways to get that than from chanters, and the amps were just one example.
yeah, we can do zones without chanters. lets see you take a hit without a warrior tanking.
wuss.
------------------
In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
you know, im really going to stop right here. i dont know you, or care about you enough to argue. the point is - just because you can play a character without doing a damn thing means nothing to me. just that i would never trust you, because you are lazy. like a 14 year old calling himself a hacker because he has a few scripts.
i could care less that you can write a few scripts to do your work. i could too, but i don't. i play for real, and i pull my own weight. congratulations on your ability.
i played this mud for 4 years on telnet before i even used a client, and ive been using mudmaster and zmud for almost 4 years now.
sylvos, you make a good point - and your rant is on target. i just used the first thing that came to mind, and that would be what i have experienced so far this wipe.
ive logged thousands of hours of ptime on this mud, and i know as well as most what the classes can do. my original retort was to his comments of a warrior being just as useful when run by triggers as not. his defense at making his class seem so damn important just pissed me off. this mud went on for years without dscales, while globe has, and always WILL be important, there are other ways to get that than from chanters, and the amps were just one example.
yeah, we can do zones without chanters. lets see you take a hit without a warrior tanking.
wuss.
------------------
In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
-
Gromikazer
- Sojourner
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:01 am
I do agree enchanters are needed. So much so I won't try to lead zone unless there is one in the group.
But saying warriors are 'easy' to play is silly a best. Every class has their hardships and shortcomings.
Btw, when's the last time anyone has lost 2-3 levels and kept going? Warriors is the only class thats willing to do this. If you want to make exp gain the same, give me 1000 more hps so when i'm rescuing casters I can live past a round without dragonscales.
Not a attempt to flame or anything, but you need to look at all sides of the picture before you should really say how things are unfair.
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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
But saying warriors are 'easy' to play is silly a best. Every class has their hardships and shortcomings.
Btw, when's the last time anyone has lost 2-3 levels and kept going? Warriors is the only class thats willing to do this. If you want to make exp gain the same, give me 1000 more hps so when i'm rescuing casters I can live past a round without dragonscales.
Not a attempt to flame or anything, but you need to look at all sides of the picture before you should really say how things are unfair.
------------------
Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
i totally agree with Gromi !!!
Daz, if you read what I said .. you will see that I meant it would be VERY hard to use triggers to play a caster in a zone (to go afk a lot)... wherein it is easy to do for warrior (unless triggers dont work then people will be pissed as hell at you)
warriors take so much damage these days that scales isnt a nicety anymore it is a necesity! we sit around in 13 and 14 man groups waiting for an enchanter to log on so we can go to the zone we wanted to ....
and once again i say it is just SILLY to play the *my class is more important that yours* .. cause SURE i get killed FAST if i happen to get switched on .. but damn a warrior will go down fast with no heals or stones/scales/globe .. every class is just as important in a group setting ... if im not on my gheals it makes it harder for the healers .. if the chanter isnt quick on his stones .. makes it harder for the healer ... if the warriors misses bashes for having a shitty shield .. gee .. makes it harder on the healer ...
utility exp is almost a must for casters who spend 75% of their time out of the room memming ... which to be effective, we have to do ... and often we arent offered the luxury of assisting .... i will use xp groups...where i am the only healer/stoner in the group... when am i going to get xp at all except from the kill? ... i will be too busy stoning healing vitting memming that i will never get to assist ... anyway it is late .. im tired and i need sleep ..
peace...
------------------
Ambar -= Squishin de Squid =-
Daz, if you read what I said .. you will see that I meant it would be VERY hard to use triggers to play a caster in a zone (to go afk a lot)... wherein it is easy to do for warrior (unless triggers dont work then people will be pissed as hell at you)
warriors take so much damage these days that scales isnt a nicety anymore it is a necesity! we sit around in 13 and 14 man groups waiting for an enchanter to log on so we can go to the zone we wanted to ....
and once again i say it is just SILLY to play the *my class is more important that yours* .. cause SURE i get killed FAST if i happen to get switched on .. but damn a warrior will go down fast with no heals or stones/scales/globe .. every class is just as important in a group setting ... if im not on my gheals it makes it harder for the healers .. if the chanter isnt quick on his stones .. makes it harder for the healer ... if the warriors misses bashes for having a shitty shield .. gee .. makes it harder on the healer ...
utility exp is almost a must for casters who spend 75% of their time out of the room memming ... which to be effective, we have to do ... and often we arent offered the luxury of assisting .... i will use xp groups...where i am the only healer/stoner in the group... when am i going to get xp at all except from the kill? ... i will be too busy stoning healing vitting memming that i will never get to assist ... anyway it is late .. im tired and i need sleep ..
peace...
------------------
Ambar -= Squishin de Squid =-
sorry, i love my class and got offended. my apologies, and thanks for posting a mature response, when what i said could very easily have escalated into something childish.
my gripe is with people going afk, period. i mean, i ask group leaders permission for getting up to get a drink of water, and if im gonna be on less than 3 hours to start - i make damn sure the leader knows it before i agree to go.
i guess it is true about things hitting harder these days, and chanters really are a staple class. i still don't think they need to level faster :P
------------------
In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
my gripe is with people going afk, period. i mean, i ask group leaders permission for getting up to get a drink of water, and if im gonna be on less than 3 hours to start - i make damn sure the leader knows it before i agree to go.
i guess it is true about things hitting harder these days, and chanters really are a staple class. i still don't think they need to level faster :P
------------------
In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
Btw Daz, back when I was heavily involved with Pride of the Sabertooth as Thuro, I led/participated in the northern barbarian horde where we managed to slay archie straight up with nothing but barbarians. And just about every other mob that wasn't in MH or barbarian, between GN and the blue stones well. That was fun. 
So vault can be done w/o chanters. Just not many other zones. :P
Syl
So vault can be done w/o chanters. Just not many other zones. :P
Syl
saying warriors are easy here dosent mean it's a cake walk. this game is not easy.
all i ask is that you play it before you or anyone claims to have a perspective on the class.
warriors lose levels fast, and get the xp back much faster than a chanter who loses the same amount of xp in the same amount of time. as a warrior it does not make any difference to me if i die, it's my job really. as a chanter it bothers me, because every notch is an hour of my time.
we need to have perspective before we give definitive answers about any class that we dont mave much experience with. and as any evil will tell you, previous experience doesnt mean much in the new sojourn. (double meaning)
all i ask is that you play it before you or anyone claims to have a perspective on the class.
warriors lose levels fast, and get the xp back much faster than a chanter who loses the same amount of xp in the same amount of time. as a warrior it does not make any difference to me if i die, it's my job really. as a chanter it bothers me, because every notch is an hour of my time.
we need to have perspective before we give definitive answers about any class that we dont mave much experience with. and as any evil will tell you, previous experience doesnt mean much in the new sojourn. (double meaning)
Warrior with good rescue triggers at keyboard > warrior with no rescue triggers at keyboard > warrior with rescue triggers AFK > warrior with no rescue triggers AFK
Whereas with an enchanter you just have:
Good enchanter at keyboard > good enchanter afk > lame enchanter at keyboard > lame enchanter afk. *nod me*
Also, the additional help of automated spell-out messages from having triggers in a client makes an enchanter's job much easier.
But it is nigh impossible to script the jobs of spellcasters, whereas a decent script and a good dose of knowledge can make a rock-solid warrior, freeing the player for things like scanning and other extras.
Regards,
Jorus
Whereas with an enchanter you just have:
Good enchanter at keyboard > good enchanter afk > lame enchanter at keyboard > lame enchanter afk. *nod me*
Also, the additional help of automated spell-out messages from having triggers in a client makes an enchanter's job much easier.
But it is nigh impossible to script the jobs of spellcasters, whereas a decent script and a good dose of knowledge can make a rock-solid warrior, freeing the player for things like scanning and other extras.
Regards,
Jorus
-
kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
i agree with you malacar. the extra exp serves no real purpose as far as i can see.
ill give gromi the being able to get extra exp for workign harder in comparisons within the same class (2 invokers in group) however the comparison is not so great with say 2 warriors. which one gets better exp? the one tanking or the one 2handing + headbutt? which one working harder? and while eq is a reflection of work it may not be the best indicator in a particular exp group.
as far as enchanter harder than warrior. both have nuances. warrior is prolly easier to script, but enchanters can be scripted reasonably well too. enchanters really can't go afk even with a good script while a non tank warrior generally can.
ill give gromi the being able to get extra exp for workign harder in comparisons within the same class (2 invokers in group) however the comparison is not so great with say 2 warriors. which one gets better exp? the one tanking or the one 2handing + headbutt? which one working harder? and while eq is a reflection of work it may not be the best indicator in a particular exp group.
as far as enchanter harder than warrior. both have nuances. warrior is prolly easier to script, but enchanters can be scripted reasonably well too. enchanters really can't go afk even with a good script while a non tank warrior generally can.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B>yes.
they make zones EASY.
i credited globe and stones, but what else?
warrior/cleric. you get enough of the two, in some combination or another, and most zones are doable, although 1-2 chanters can make a huge difference.
my point was that after stone/globe - the things they do are just nice. faerie fire? nice. ray? nice. haste? nice. detects? nice. fly? nice.
the 'nice' effects can mostly be replaced with potions or eq in some way. as for zones - if you REALLY wanna ballstothawall it - run vault a few times with an all warrior/cleric/shaman/bard/whatever combination group, no shamans needed - get a bunch of amps. lets say 30 of em. thats prolly enough to run a good number of zones with an enchanter. i never said chanters weren't needed or wanted, i'm saying they arent all powerful. i was mainly offended by the remark that warriors don't do anything while chanters keep the group alive. bs. warriors and clerics keep the group alive. chanters make it easy.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hm, I don't think you can quaff 30 amps in a day, there's a potion limit.
In the past, perhaps a conjurer could easily replace a sorc or some such... But now...
I shudder to think of Brass without an enchanter. What will you do to CR, if you spank on padashaw?
How will you tank padashaw and his many minions without dscales and displace?
I grant you that a great many zones no longer need enchanters, but they are still required for some zones.
------------------
Azuth tells you 'were you leading that disaster?'
<B>yes.
they make zones EASY.
i credited globe and stones, but what else?
warrior/cleric. you get enough of the two, in some combination or another, and most zones are doable, although 1-2 chanters can make a huge difference.
my point was that after stone/globe - the things they do are just nice. faerie fire? nice. ray? nice. haste? nice. detects? nice. fly? nice.
the 'nice' effects can mostly be replaced with potions or eq in some way. as for zones - if you REALLY wanna ballstothawall it - run vault a few times with an all warrior/cleric/shaman/bard/whatever combination group, no shamans needed - get a bunch of amps. lets say 30 of em. thats prolly enough to run a good number of zones with an enchanter. i never said chanters weren't needed or wanted, i'm saying they arent all powerful. i was mainly offended by the remark that warriors don't do anything while chanters keep the group alive. bs. warriors and clerics keep the group alive. chanters make it easy.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hm, I don't think you can quaff 30 amps in a day, there's a potion limit.
In the past, perhaps a conjurer could easily replace a sorc or some such... But now...
I shudder to think of Brass without an enchanter. What will you do to CR, if you spank on padashaw?
How will you tank padashaw and his many minions without dscales and displace?
I grant you that a great many zones no longer need enchanters, but they are still required for some zones.
------------------
Azuth tells you 'were you leading that disaster?'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarell:
<B>I want exp for talking crap!
[1507] Yayaril [Rogue/Babbler]
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Moritheil (level 2040) (stater of the obvious)
------------------
Azuth tells you 'were you leading that disaster?'
<B>I want exp for talking crap!
[1507] Yayaril [Rogue/Babbler]
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Moritheil (level 2040) (stater of the obvious)
------------------
Azuth tells you 'were you leading that disaster?'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
<B> How will you tank padashaw and his many minions without dscales and displace?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What's displace?
I see a 40+ illusionist zoning about once a month.
------------------
/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
<B> How will you tank padashaw and his many minions without dscales and displace?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What's displace?
I see a 40+ illusionist zoning about once a month.
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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
This is from personal experience...
I used to play a warrior and now i play a cleric. Workload-wise, clerics do way more. They do spell-ups and try to keep group alive while in zones and do resses while not. Warriors collect a variety of EQ to use in various zones. While in zones, they swap them around while doing bashes and rescues. I used to fall asleep zoning as Wargo but I have yet to achieve that as Yssilk I used to sit in my guild while the group try to CR the spank now I just prevent spanks from taking place. Enchanters are as important as clerics when it comes to zoning, perhaps even more.
I had problems with Caz voicing his uneducated opinions about clerics a few months back. I can understand why Teyaha would have problem with you, Daz, for voicing your uneducated opinions about enchanters. If everyone keeps class specific discussions to the classes he/she has personally experienced, then there would be a lot less flaming.
Yssilk
I used to play a warrior and now i play a cleric. Workload-wise, clerics do way more. They do spell-ups and try to keep group alive while in zones and do resses while not. Warriors collect a variety of EQ to use in various zones. While in zones, they swap them around while doing bashes and rescues. I used to fall asleep zoning as Wargo but I have yet to achieve that as Yssilk
I used to sit in my guild while the group try to CR the spank now I just prevent spanks from taking place. Enchanters are as important as clerics when it comes to zoning, perhaps even more.I had problems with Caz voicing his uneducated opinions about clerics a few months back. I can understand why Teyaha would have problem with you, Daz, for voicing your uneducated opinions about enchanters. If everyone keeps class specific discussions to the classes he/she has personally experienced, then there would be a lot less flaming.
Yssilk
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kiryan
- Sojourner
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I had problems with Caz voicing his uneducated opinions about clerics a few months back. I can understand why Teyaha would have problem with you, Daz, for voicing your uneducated opinions about enchanters. If everyone keeps class specific discussions to the classes he/she has personally experienced, then there would be a lot less flaming.
omg, dont even bring that up again. i know plenty of stuff about ress, and being a cleric. you think you get ress spam here on sojourn, try playing everquest as an unanon resser. then you will know what spam is. also, i have played a 50 resser in the past on sojourn. ive also been on several ress quests.
to say i am un-educated is ridiculous. bah. more like you try to invalidate my opinions with the fallacy that an unedcuated person can not make valid observations. how weak.
and i still think ress quest should be downgraded, particularly the glittering golden mask, but its much less of an issue since jaznolg got about 6-8 folks ress shortly after the subject, and there are quite a few more high level evils to go to avernus.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-23-2002).]
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-23-2002).]
omg, dont even bring that up again. i know plenty of stuff about ress, and being a cleric. you think you get ress spam here on sojourn, try playing everquest as an unanon resser. then you will know what spam is. also, i have played a 50 resser in the past on sojourn. ive also been on several ress quests.
to say i am un-educated is ridiculous. bah. more like you try to invalidate my opinions with the fallacy that an unedcuated person can not make valid observations. how weak.
and i still think ress quest should be downgraded, particularly the glittering golden mask, but its much less of an issue since jaznolg got about 6-8 folks ress shortly after the subject, and there are quite a few more high level evils to go to avernus.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-23-2002).]
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-23-2002).]
The miscellanoues exp sources (heal, stone, dscale) are very minor. They hardly imbalance the game whatsoever...if you have a logical argument to the contrary, feel free to make it here or in private email.
And I wouldn't worry about the CPU cost, heh.
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<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
And I wouldn't worry about the CPU cost, heh.
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<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
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kiryan
- Sojourner
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nod. how about the melee and spell damage exp? that seems to make a big difference.
Also, may i ask where does auxiliary exp like damage exp come from? does it actually "suck" exp out of mobs like some folks have claimed? or is it just created?
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-23-2002).]
Also, may i ask where does auxiliary exp like damage exp come from? does it actually "suck" exp out of mobs like some folks have claimed? or is it just created?
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-23-2002).]
In a nutshell:
There are two major types of experience:
1. Death Experience
2. Damage Experience
It is split up this way for several reasons, the most prominent being to deter powerleveling by ensuring that inactive group members do not receive the same experience as those that are actively contributing.
Now, obviously, that setup leaves a few classes that are not designed for heavy damage - namely clerics and enchanters - out in the cold, thus they were given other minor sources of exp to even it out.
It is not a perfect system, but it does serve it's purpose pretty well. I'm still curious exactly what the complaint is.
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<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
There are two major types of experience:
1. Death Experience
2. Damage Experience
It is split up this way for several reasons, the most prominent being to deter powerleveling by ensuring that inactive group members do not receive the same experience as those that are actively contributing.
Now, obviously, that setup leaves a few classes that are not designed for heavy damage - namely clerics and enchanters - out in the cold, thus they were given other minor sources of exp to even it out.
It is not a perfect system, but it does serve it's purpose pretty well. I'm still curious exactly what the complaint is.
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<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
Seems like a fair way of splitting it.
The one thing I would take a look at, Shev, is that it seems there is some sort of exp-cap that kicks in between level 20 and 30 (approximately) that makes it overly difficult for people at those levels to even get legitimate exp. At least for mages, I haven't tried leveling any other type of class.
Corth
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Goddamned slippery mage.
The one thing I would take a look at, Shev, is that it seems there is some sort of exp-cap that kicks in between level 20 and 30 (approximately) that makes it overly difficult for people at those levels to even get legitimate exp. At least for mages, I haven't tried leveling any other type of class.
Corth
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Goddamned slippery mage.
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kiryan
- Sojourner
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hmm, not really complaining, just pondering and discussing.
your comment regarding !assisting folks and power leveling is interesting. Im interested in what countermeasures have been taken. for instance, i hope you don't get more exp for assisting than not assisting. Its much more efficient if your a spellcaster not to assist. you save time on retreat/disengage/assist lag which can be used for memming. some clerics swear that you dont get heal exp if you dont assist (however i don't believe this to be true).
if there was a complaint it would be about how priests and enchanters level in a large group (anything over 4 really). they the the foundation of every group yet level significantly slower as the group gets bigger.
non stop killing in a 2-4 man group is hands down better than non stop killing in a 6+ man group with extremely rare exception. non-stop killing in large groups should grant more exp than non-stop killing in small groups. and im not even talking about smoke exp. 2-4 man ship xp significantly > 8 man ship exp. the same appears to be true for tower. don't you think exp should favor larger groups on a grouping mud?
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-23-2002).]
your comment regarding !assisting folks and power leveling is interesting. Im interested in what countermeasures have been taken. for instance, i hope you don't get more exp for assisting than not assisting. Its much more efficient if your a spellcaster not to assist. you save time on retreat/disengage/assist lag which can be used for memming. some clerics swear that you dont get heal exp if you dont assist (however i don't believe this to be true).
if there was a complaint it would be about how priests and enchanters level in a large group (anything over 4 really). they the the foundation of every group yet level significantly slower as the group gets bigger.
non stop killing in a 2-4 man group is hands down better than non stop killing in a 6+ man group with extremely rare exception. non-stop killing in large groups should grant more exp than non-stop killing in small groups. and im not even talking about smoke exp. 2-4 man ship xp significantly > 8 man ship exp. the same appears to be true for tower. don't you think exp should favor larger groups on a grouping mud?
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-23-2002).]
Shev,
I'm not acquainted with the code, but my impression is that around those levels, the amount of possible exp you can get from a kill is capped at a certain level which is unusually low. Then, once you get to level 32 or so, you actually start getting more exp from the same mobs (and in the same group) then you did at lower levels.
Corth
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Goddamned slippery mage.
I'm not acquainted with the code, but my impression is that around those levels, the amount of possible exp you can get from a kill is capped at a certain level which is unusually low. Then, once you get to level 32 or so, you actually start getting more exp from the same mobs (and in the same group) then you did at lower levels.
Corth
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Goddamned slippery mage.
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kiryan
- Sojourner
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oh thanks shev. i wasnt trying to say you said something, i was just pondering any possible implications of your words.
agree corth i think it has something to do with power vs level vs exp. 20-30 i feel you are weaker against mobs than at 10-20 and the exp you needed to level goes up significantly but normalizing by the time you hit mid 30s. from 30-40 you start getting decent spells/skills or more competent in using them.
agree corth i think it has something to do with power vs level vs exp. 20-30 i feel you are weaker against mobs than at 10-20 and the exp you needed to level goes up significantly but normalizing by the time you hit mid 30s. from 30-40 you start getting decent spells/skills or more competent in using them.
Significant xp bonusses for multi-mob fights.
Meaning fights like gatehouses would be prime xp, though fighting two or three mobs above your level simultaneously would still yield noticeable gains.
These after all, ARE the most fun fights and DO require the most skill. Who knows... people might even do xp for fun if this is what would be involved. :P
Meaning fights like gatehouses would be prime xp, though fighting two or three mobs above your level simultaneously would still yield noticeable gains.
These after all, ARE the most fun fights and DO require the most skill. Who knows... people might even do xp for fun if this is what would be involved. :P
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