This item is the source of way too much bickering.
Make it !goodrace please, it would solve so many problems on the mud.
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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
Purple Silk Eyepatch
An item with no confrontational content can never be the cause of confrontation. It's not the item that causes confrontation, but the total mindset developed over it. Instead of seeing it as something which must be hoarded, what is wrong with seeing it as an asset placed in such a way as to give evils leverage in trades, thus stimulating the influx of tradegoods into the UD and bolstering the economy?
It's a tool, it's just up to the user to either put it in a closet or use it.
It's a tool, it's just up to the user to either put it in a closet or use it.
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Tanji Smanji
- Sojourner
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B>This item is the source of way too much bickering.
Make it !goodrace please, it would solve so many problems on the mud.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Only if llewyrr bags and tinkers bags are made useable by goodraces only. Only fair of course...
Now, back to reality. Goodies have access to the major !burn bags, ya'll have the eyepatches. If I remember correctly both alligator skin and turtle shell eyepatches are in evil hometowns (could be wrong on this). Lets not get carried away with this good/evilrace only thing.
<B>This item is the source of way too much bickering.
Make it !goodrace please, it would solve so many problems on the mud.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Only if llewyrr bags and tinkers bags are made useable by goodraces only. Only fair of course...
Now, back to reality. Goodies have access to the major !burn bags, ya'll have the eyepatches. If I remember correctly both alligator skin and turtle shell eyepatches are in evil hometowns (could be wrong on this). Lets not get carried away with this good/evilrace only thing.
this has to be the stupidest thing i've ever seen. goodies want purple eyepatches. evils don't want them to have it. evils want sextants in WD for their meteorswarm quest. *cough*
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http://www.angelfire.com/hiphop2/stuntaname/icyhot.gif
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http://www.angelfire.com/hiphop2/stuntaname/icyhot.gif
incorrect on that last point.
plenty of evils do the quest for psilk, then use an anonymous goodie to sell it/trade it for stuff they want.
they do the same with lapis lazuli's. i've been watching this very very closely for the past few months.
i dont hide who i am when i trade, and that gets me in shitloads of trouble. what does it say about our community when people do petty crap like that?
just sit back and think about it.
plenty of evils do the quest for psilk, then use an anonymous goodie to sell it/trade it for stuff they want.
they do the same with lapis lazuli's. i've been watching this very very closely for the past few months.
i dont hide who i am when i trade, and that gets me in shitloads of trouble. what does it say about our community when people do petty crap like that?
just sit back and think about it.
The difference between goods and evils developing economies in their hometowns is incredible.
How did it happen?
I've played an evil only this wipe, and find it hard to believe that evils don't trade/sell eq the way they do in WD. (I haven't actually spent any time in WD, but there are numerous posts that talk about people sitting 3W shouting what they have to trade, and goodie friends have confirmed this.)
I actually think that may be part of the reason we don't have as large a player base on the evil side. And it certainly would make playing an evil at lower levels a lot nicer if you could make a little cash and buy a nice piece of eq that would really help you out until you're at a level you can zone.
It really makes little sense. I don't think good race players get hassled when they help evils out by getting us tinker or llewyrr bags, and evil players certainly aren't complaining about getting the help from them.
RP if you want -- that's cool. But when it comes to making the game more enjoyable for people by trading an extra psilk for another piece of eq that upgrades their setup, thereby making them a more effective group member, what's the big deal?
I remember when I first started here this wipe, I had forgotten a lot from my previous playing days. So I asked for some help on NHC. Lillithelle was nice enough to well in and throw me some nice pieces of eq that really helped me out, as well as answering my questions. It may have even kept me from just giving up and saying my mudding days were over. Considering no evil player sitting at the fountain was even willing to answer my rather simple questions, I thought that was pretty cool.
And after I read a post by an evil group that thanked a goodie group for helping them out retrieving eq from a manscorps spank, I vowed I would make a conscious effort to RP my character within reasonable bounds -- meaning, if I was ever put in a situation where someone really needed my help and I was capable of helping them, I would do it regardless of race. I still tease goodies when I see them -- that's my version of race war RP.
I'm sorry Teyaha that you had to take some crap for trading a psilk. There are a lot of evil players that have done the same thing, probably some that gave you a hard time, but they're just able to keep it quiet.
Peace out,
Zetey
------------------
Zetey tells you, "Where can I get a pair of gaudy pink, thickly padded, handcuffs?"
How did it happen?
I've played an evil only this wipe, and find it hard to believe that evils don't trade/sell eq the way they do in WD. (I haven't actually spent any time in WD, but there are numerous posts that talk about people sitting 3W shouting what they have to trade, and goodie friends have confirmed this.)
I actually think that may be part of the reason we don't have as large a player base on the evil side. And it certainly would make playing an evil at lower levels a lot nicer if you could make a little cash and buy a nice piece of eq that would really help you out until you're at a level you can zone.
It really makes little sense. I don't think good race players get hassled when they help evils out by getting us tinker or llewyrr bags, and evil players certainly aren't complaining about getting the help from them.
RP if you want -- that's cool. But when it comes to making the game more enjoyable for people by trading an extra psilk for another piece of eq that upgrades their setup, thereby making them a more effective group member, what's the big deal?
I remember when I first started here this wipe, I had forgotten a lot from my previous playing days. So I asked for some help on NHC. Lillithelle was nice enough to well in and throw me some nice pieces of eq that really helped me out, as well as answering my questions. It may have even kept me from just giving up and saying my mudding days were over. Considering no evil player sitting at the fountain was even willing to answer my rather simple questions, I thought that was pretty cool.
And after I read a post by an evil group that thanked a goodie group for helping them out retrieving eq from a manscorps spank, I vowed I would make a conscious effort to RP my character within reasonable bounds -- meaning, if I was ever put in a situation where someone really needed my help and I was capable of helping them, I would do it regardless of race. I still tease goodies when I see them -- that's my version of race war RP.
I'm sorry Teyaha that you had to take some crap for trading a psilk. There are a lot of evil players that have done the same thing, probably some that gave you a hard time, but they're just able to keep it quiet.
Peace out,
Zetey
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Zetey tells you, "Where can I get a pair of gaudy pink, thickly padded, handcuffs?"
eep! i never traded a psilk.
i did trade what caster gear i had about 8 months back to play a warrior. still have al that warrior gear. sometimes i trade off bits and pieces i dont need anymore for something a bit better or different. some things i'll never trade because this is the first wipe i've owned them or that they're needed for uber quests (grey greens).
i just dont see why evils NEED to hide. why do they feel the NEED to hide? do they feel that the community will blacklist them for trading?
it's sad that anyone would have such thoughts, think about THAT.
i did trade what caster gear i had about 8 months back to play a warrior. still have al that warrior gear. sometimes i trade off bits and pieces i dont need anymore for something a bit better or different. some things i'll never trade because this is the first wipe i've owned them or that they're needed for uber quests (grey greens).
i just dont see why evils NEED to hide. why do they feel the NEED to hide? do they feel that the community will blacklist them for trading?
it's sad that anyone would have such thoughts, think about THAT.
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
the difference is that evils used to rarely bid. if your handed a piece of eq its cause you needed it. if you then go trade that piece of eq for something else, next time we do the same zone you end up "needing" it again.
how would you feel if you helped deck out a warrior then he goes off and trades most of his gear away for caster gear. especially eq that you could've used. How would you feel if he made really bad trades like trading a diamondine for a nebula? Then to add insult to injury, he comes back to zone and expects to get the same gear he traded off.
this culture is a legacy of the past. developed when there were far fewer evil players and they were a tight band. they were a victim of their own success. people liked the system so much that evils got inundated. now were trying to find a new balance. some will always stick to the old ways, be very conservative trade policy. some will strike a balance. some will adopt a liberal trade policy. Evils split into factions, it becomes more or less WD. personally, im saddened cause if i wanted to be in the WD environment i wouldve rolled a goody. where can i go for the old school evil mentality?
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-29-2002).]
how would you feel if you helped deck out a warrior then he goes off and trades most of his gear away for caster gear. especially eq that you could've used. How would you feel if he made really bad trades like trading a diamondine for a nebula? Then to add insult to injury, he comes back to zone and expects to get the same gear he traded off.
this culture is a legacy of the past. developed when there were far fewer evil players and they were a tight band. they were a victim of their own success. people liked the system so much that evils got inundated. now were trying to find a new balance. some will always stick to the old ways, be very conservative trade policy. some will strike a balance. some will adopt a liberal trade policy. Evils split into factions, it becomes more or less WD. personally, im saddened cause if i wanted to be in the WD environment i wouldve rolled a goody. where can i go for the old school evil mentality?
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-29-2002).]
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Gromikazer
- Sojourner
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:01 am
Personally, I have not yet persecuted a evil for trading anything to a goodie. It's commerce, I understand that.
Where the stigma of trade a psilk get banned came from, was a unwritten rule to keep people from twinking them every boot, and keeping other evils 41+ level from getting them.
I have no problem with evils doing the psilk quest once in a while and trading them to goodies. My problem stems from having a single evil twink the psilk quest 10-15 boots in a row.
It would be like goodies doing the 1k helm 15 times in 25 boots just to sell to evils. Same concept.
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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
Where the stigma of trade a psilk get banned came from, was a unwritten rule to keep people from twinking them every boot, and keeping other evils 41+ level from getting them.
I have no problem with evils doing the psilk quest once in a while and trading them to goodies. My problem stems from having a single evil twink the psilk quest 10-15 boots in a row.
It would be like goodies doing the 1k helm 15 times in 25 boots just to sell to evils. Same concept.
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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zetey:
<B>The difference between goods and evils developing economies in their hometowns is incredible.
How did it happen?
I've played an evil only this wipe, and find it hard to believe that evils don't trade/sell eq the way they do in WD. (I haven't actually spent any time in WD, but there are numerous posts that talk about people sitting 3W shouting what they have to trade, and goodie friends have confirmed this.)
I actually think that may be part of the reason we don't have as large a player base on the evil side. And it certainly would make playing an evil at lower levels a lot nicer if you could make a little cash and buy a nice piece of eq that would really help you out until you're at a level you can zone.
It really makes little sense. I don't think good race players get hassled when they help evils out by getting us tinker or llewyrr bags, and evil players certainly aren't complaining about getting the help from them.
RP if you want -- that's cool. But when it comes to making the game more enjoyable for people by trading an extra psilk for another piece of eq that upgrades their setup, thereby making them a more effective group member, what's the big deal?
I remember when I first started here this wipe, I had forgotten a lot from my previous playing days. So I asked for some help on NHC. Lillithelle was nice enough to well in and throw me some nice pieces of eq that really helped me out, as well as answering my questions. It may have even kept me from just giving up and saying my mudding days were over. Considering no evil player sitting at the fountain was even willing to answer my rather simple questions, I thought that was pretty cool.
And after I read a post by an evil group that thanked a goodie group for helping them out retrieving eq from a manscorps spank, I vowed I would make a conscious effort to RP my character within reasonable bounds -- meaning, if I was ever put in a situation where someone really needed my help and I was capable of helping them, I would do it regardless of race. I still tease goodies when I see them -- that's my version of race war RP.
I'm sorry Teyaha that you had to take some crap for trading a psilk. There are a lot of evil players that have done the same thing, probably some that gave you a hard time, but they're just able to keep it quiet.
Peace out,
Zetey
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I Agree!, ....Grp....
<B>The difference between goods and evils developing economies in their hometowns is incredible.
How did it happen?
I've played an evil only this wipe, and find it hard to believe that evils don't trade/sell eq the way they do in WD. (I haven't actually spent any time in WD, but there are numerous posts that talk about people sitting 3W shouting what they have to trade, and goodie friends have confirmed this.)
I actually think that may be part of the reason we don't have as large a player base on the evil side. And it certainly would make playing an evil at lower levels a lot nicer if you could make a little cash and buy a nice piece of eq that would really help you out until you're at a level you can zone.
It really makes little sense. I don't think good race players get hassled when they help evils out by getting us tinker or llewyrr bags, and evil players certainly aren't complaining about getting the help from them.
RP if you want -- that's cool. But when it comes to making the game more enjoyable for people by trading an extra psilk for another piece of eq that upgrades their setup, thereby making them a more effective group member, what's the big deal?
I remember when I first started here this wipe, I had forgotten a lot from my previous playing days. So I asked for some help on NHC. Lillithelle was nice enough to well in and throw me some nice pieces of eq that really helped me out, as well as answering my questions. It may have even kept me from just giving up and saying my mudding days were over. Considering no evil player sitting at the fountain was even willing to answer my rather simple questions, I thought that was pretty cool.
And after I read a post by an evil group that thanked a goodie group for helping them out retrieving eq from a manscorps spank, I vowed I would make a conscious effort to RP my character within reasonable bounds -- meaning, if I was ever put in a situation where someone really needed my help and I was capable of helping them, I would do it regardless of race. I still tease goodies when I see them -- that's my version of race war RP.
I'm sorry Teyaha that you had to take some crap for trading a psilk. There are a lot of evil players that have done the same thing, probably some that gave you a hard time, but they're just able to keep it quiet.
Peace out,
Zetey
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I Agree!, ....Grp....
Gromi: I absolutely see the point that you make, and actually had addressed that in my first post but edited it out. There will always be a few people who will abuse quests and hoard items, but there have been enough posts about hoarding quest items on the BBS. It sucks, but that's the reality. Teyaha's comment only reinforces that. However, if it's well into a boot and the quest hasn't been done -- like most things, it's really a gray area.
Kiryan: Im not saying turn DK into WD (the horrror, the horror). But I just found it odd that _some_ kind of economy/commerce had failed to evolve on the evil side. Is there even a trade board in DK?
And I agree with you on how it would suck to always have a player "needing" a piece of eq because they traded it away to get a different item.
But here's where an economy on the evil side would help evil players:
I just don't feel right bidding on items my class can't use. And the fact that there isn't any commerce/economy whereby I could take decent hitter items I've gotten from zoning and maybe trade them for upgrades to my setup just reinforces that. Why load my sack/storage up with crap I'd never use? (I don't play alts, although I do have other chars, see below.)
That makes it harder to upgrade eq, create a a more survivable player in zones, and thus a better group member.
The problem really hits when players bid on a mageable item for their mage alt that the class they zoned with can't use. Good leaders usually make sure it doesn't happen, but it happens.
(My personal preference is for the handout system -- you earn your stripes with leaders, they recognize your contributions and make it a point, most times unbeknownst to you, to get you upgraded.)
Sorry, don't mean to pick on warriors here -- this can go both ways, but it doesn't really seem to -- I think that may be because mid- to high-level mage eq is rarer/harder to come by or more difficult to do solo/in small groups, but I don't have the knowledge base to back this up. It usually just appears that there are fewer mageable items in group caches, but it could just be the zones I've been able to do.
Now those players do have as much right to bid on that eq as any other group member would, they played their part in the zone and earned it. But wouldn't warriors howl if a mage won the bid/dice for an ebony for their warrior alt?
When there's a free market in play, it wouldn't matter. People just get what they're handed/won, and could turn around and trade it or extra pieces of eq for something they can really use that would make them a better player/increase their fun factor. And I'm talking about players who are honest, ethical and play with integrity -- not those who abuse quests/sit on eq after boots. I think most of us fall into that first category. Then maybe mage x who won the bid on that ebony could trade it to the hitter who won the eldritch ring or some mage's hitter alt for a piece of mage eq. I'm sure this happens, but not nearly on the scale of the goodie side. Again, I'm not trying to recreate what goodies do, just trying to usurp what little positives I can find in them for evils' gain. (jk my golden aura pals) :-)
For the record, I've played three classes this wipe: a necro to 31 (storage char now); a cleric to 16 (just found the class boring); and the class I was born to play -- enchanter. I played them in that order and each served as my primary. I never was able to zone until my enchanter got into the 40s. I haven't played a different char since I created my ench, although I have logged on to chat with some friends who know those other chars when I just feel like being social.
So this is really the perspective of a not-quite-as-knowledgeable-as-the-rest-of-you player. Oh, and I'm not a republican but I do believe in free-market economies!
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Zetey tells you, "Where can I get a pair of gaudy pink, thickly padded, handcuffs?"
[This message has been edited by Zetey (edited 05-29-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Zetey (edited 05-29-2002).]
Kiryan: Im not saying turn DK into WD (the horrror, the horror). But I just found it odd that _some_ kind of economy/commerce had failed to evolve on the evil side. Is there even a trade board in DK?
And I agree with you on how it would suck to always have a player "needing" a piece of eq because they traded it away to get a different item.
But here's where an economy on the evil side would help evil players:
I just don't feel right bidding on items my class can't use. And the fact that there isn't any commerce/economy whereby I could take decent hitter items I've gotten from zoning and maybe trade them for upgrades to my setup just reinforces that. Why load my sack/storage up with crap I'd never use? (I don't play alts, although I do have other chars, see below.)
That makes it harder to upgrade eq, create a a more survivable player in zones, and thus a better group member.
The problem really hits when players bid on a mageable item for their mage alt that the class they zoned with can't use. Good leaders usually make sure it doesn't happen, but it happens.
(My personal preference is for the handout system -- you earn your stripes with leaders, they recognize your contributions and make it a point, most times unbeknownst to you, to get you upgraded.)
Sorry, don't mean to pick on warriors here -- this can go both ways, but it doesn't really seem to -- I think that may be because mid- to high-level mage eq is rarer/harder to come by or more difficult to do solo/in small groups, but I don't have the knowledge base to back this up. It usually just appears that there are fewer mageable items in group caches, but it could just be the zones I've been able to do.
Now those players do have as much right to bid on that eq as any other group member would, they played their part in the zone and earned it. But wouldn't warriors howl if a mage won the bid/dice for an ebony for their warrior alt?
When there's a free market in play, it wouldn't matter. People just get what they're handed/won, and could turn around and trade it or extra pieces of eq for something they can really use that would make them a better player/increase their fun factor. And I'm talking about players who are honest, ethical and play with integrity -- not those who abuse quests/sit on eq after boots. I think most of us fall into that first category. Then maybe mage x who won the bid on that ebony could trade it to the hitter who won the eldritch ring or some mage's hitter alt for a piece of mage eq. I'm sure this happens, but not nearly on the scale of the goodie side. Again, I'm not trying to recreate what goodies do, just trying to usurp what little positives I can find in them for evils' gain. (jk my golden aura pals) :-)
For the record, I've played three classes this wipe: a necro to 31 (storage char now); a cleric to 16 (just found the class boring); and the class I was born to play -- enchanter. I played them in that order and each served as my primary. I never was able to zone until my enchanter got into the 40s. I haven't played a different char since I created my ench, although I have logged on to chat with some friends who know those other chars when I just feel like being social.
So this is really the perspective of a not-quite-as-knowledgeable-as-the-rest-of-you player. Oh, and I'm not a republican but I do believe in free-market economies!
------------------
Zetey tells you, "Where can I get a pair of gaudy pink, thickly padded, handcuffs?"
[This message has been edited by Zetey (edited 05-29-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Zetey (edited 05-29-2002).]
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
there was a time grom when you felt differently about folks that traded with goodies. at least ones that traded dozens of psilks off.
zetey, they are two different systems. neither one is better imo, just fits some individuals better than others. im just sad to see the one i favored die off.
im also sad to see folks who claimed at one time to hold the ideals give in to greed with excuses like so and so always gets the best eq and has 3 decked characters cause hes friends with person x, so im just going to bid on everything and trade off eq to get what i want. so and so trades psilks and lapis, so im going to too.
There were problems with the system. i think some folks got more than their fair share. I think some folks were rather hipporcitical. i did think it was something that could be refined and resolved at one point, now Im pretty sure were past the point of no return, its a free for all on trade and i dont see how that can be undone. It'll be interesting to see if it ever returns or if it always was merely a way to control and justify a good ol boys club.
I dont know whether im more revolted by the greed, or the pitiful excuses people use to justify their change in view point, or the hipocrites. at least teyaha tells everyone to fuck off and he gonna trade his eq if he wants, not hide behind excuses and finger pointing.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-30-2002).]
zetey, they are two different systems. neither one is better imo, just fits some individuals better than others. im just sad to see the one i favored die off.
im also sad to see folks who claimed at one time to hold the ideals give in to greed with excuses like so and so always gets the best eq and has 3 decked characters cause hes friends with person x, so im just going to bid on everything and trade off eq to get what i want. so and so trades psilks and lapis, so im going to too.
There were problems with the system. i think some folks got more than their fair share. I think some folks were rather hipporcitical. i did think it was something that could be refined and resolved at one point, now Im pretty sure were past the point of no return, its a free for all on trade and i dont see how that can be undone. It'll be interesting to see if it ever returns or if it always was merely a way to control and justify a good ol boys club.
I dont know whether im more revolted by the greed, or the pitiful excuses people use to justify their change in view point, or the hipocrites. at least teyaha tells everyone to fuck off and he gonna trade his eq if he wants, not hide behind excuses and finger pointing.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-30-2002).]
Let me just say that, as a goodie leader, I sometimes found myself wishing I didn't have to dice everything. Because if we did Open dice, invariably Person A would win an item, and persons X,Y, and Z would tell me how much I sucked because they needed it more. Sometimes they were right, sometimes not. I pretty much never ever reserved anything for myself, which meant at one point I had led vault a dozen times and still had no nebby. 
Many times, however, the dice validated what I would have liked to have done anyhow. On my first lead of FP, for example, Imis helped *tremendously*, and he wound up winning the earring.
So I don't know. I've come to respect the dice. But they only work so long as you set everything up fairly as well.
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Zaryn group-says 'If we can para the mages again. Mori's trick is going to save us.'
<> You group-say 'zaryn the "mori save us" irony is not lost on me'
Many times, however, the dice validated what I would have liked to have done anyhow. On my first lead of FP, for example, Imis helped *tremendously*, and he wound up winning the earring.
So I don't know. I've come to respect the dice. But they only work so long as you set everything up fairly as well.
------------------
Zaryn group-says 'If we can para the mages again. Mori's trick is going to save us.'
<> You group-say 'zaryn the "mori save us" irony is not lost on me'
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