Artifacts of Power

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Nokie
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Postby Nokie » Thu Jul 25, 2002 4:53 pm

These are my personal rules regarding communications and RP:

say/shout/whisper/ask == rp
OOC/ACC/NHC/petition/gsay/tell != rp

One possible exception may be tell, but it all depends on the context. Sometimes it's just not possible to get physically in the same room as the player you are interacting with. It it then, IMHO, that tell is an acceptable way to RP.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
<B>gsa != rp
say == rp
tell == rp</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Nokie 'No you don't!! That belongs to me!' Quickfingers
Mplor
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Postby Mplor » Thu Jul 25, 2002 5:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gormal:
<B>Why can't people be happy that this type of thing exists rather then mad that it didn't happen to them?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a piece of advice: I had an artifact on Toril. I told only three people the true stats and never let anyone ID them. Wanna know why? Because there are people out there who don't get angry until they find out just how nice your item is. (Oh and all the silly balance issues! *duck*)

Next time just say, sweet, a restrung Surtur!

Mp

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Zoldren
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Postby Zoldren » Thu Jul 25, 2002 5:40 pm

Why can't people be happy that this type of thing exists rather then mad that it didn't happen to them? I've never taken a restring from the invasions/quests i've led before or after that. None of those badges they handed out...Why can't people just accept that they don't know the full facts and trust the Quest Gods?


its not about you having it, its about other people having the chance to get something


Miax, you said earlier that you liked/welcomed critisism, when i try to be positive about it and show you things that might insite other players, and ask if thats how you meant them.. but if you think my critisisms dont count fine. mabye i should have just flamed.

so basicaly if the way i understand it is...
if god doesnt like you/your quest styel you dont quest

the succession of quester goes sa follows?
God favorite rp >> sucky rp>> noob >> zoner >> sucky people gawds dont like/want in quests

and the basic jest of everyones post is
stop bitchin about not having one yourself *nobody was*

stop bitching about taking it out of the game *Nobody was*

we dont care what you think/like this is how it is, you have to accept it

if we dont like your style you dont go, you have to accept it,

did i miss anything?...
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 25, 2002 7:56 pm

Only the entire point Zoldren. Most of what you said above was not correct. Re-read the thread more carefully and I will more seriously consider what your saying.

Miax
Azralek Silvermist
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Postby Azralek Silvermist » Thu Jul 25, 2002 8:01 pm

Didn't really want to make a second post

If its about everyone having a chance to get one then there is no issue. Since from the the response given it seems opurtunities still exist.

It seems some people have jumped to the conclusion that others ould not have the chance to get items of that caliber. I can not find anyhere where the God's said we will give out no more quest items.

Since everyone inists they just want a fair chance for all i will apologize for my previous post misdirected aim.

Miax himself has said quests will contiue to occur with rewards being given appropritate for difficulty ,roleplay and sacrifice.

So no need to continue this then.
Note: everyone having a chance and everyone having a equal chance are too different things; and NOWHERE in this mud or life does everyone have an equal chance at everything.

Azmaell/Azralek
"Seems like people started screaming fire before they saw the smoke"
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Postby Ensis » Thu Jul 25, 2002 8:36 pm

Hi, my name is Zoldren, i take everything out of context, and put it into my own words so that my point looks valid.

Get over it.
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:15 pm

*Shrug*

I know I'll never get any spanky quest item, cause I suck at RP and really am not around most of the hours those things happen.

Of course I'll get jealous when I see people get spanky eq.. I'm a powergamer, damnit. I'm always jealous if I see another caster with a better item with me Image

But well... Guys, its just a game.. If Miax wants to spend hours giving a good story for some players, then he can give them what rewards he wants..

1 hit and 2 spellsave is not that big of a deal anyway. Sure its nice, and I'd love to have one myself.. But blasting an entire section of the staff for it, when they are just trying to make the mud a more fun place for a larger part of the playerbase, is very low.



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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
Snurgt
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Postby Snurgt » Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:24 pm

Hi, my name is Luka, and I live on the second floor. I live upstairs from you, yes I think you've seen me before.
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Postby Guest » Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Snurgt:
Hi, my name is Luka, and I live on the second floor. I live upstairs from you, yes I think you've seen me before.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dance Snurgtification 2002 strikes again!

--D2 (come on everybody, say "yeaaa-aaaaah")



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Postby rachaz » Fri Jul 26, 2002 1:03 am

I would like to say two points about god quests that I believe are important to this conversation.

I led many god run quests this wipe as well as an FNAT almost every friday night. Though I did not agree with the rewards or the concepts, I led these FNATs and enjoyed them as much as possible. I respected the amount of effort the gods put into it. After showing my respect for the quest staff and my flair to rp, a regular zone group I was leading was given a god quest. I was extremely happy about this because I happen to like when all 15 people in the group can participate. I will go over this in my second point... Due to a misunderstanding, I am no longer given any quests but this does prove that it is possible to be given a quest in time.

My second point is more important to me. People seem to be talking about a quest elite on this post. I believe that the quest elite are in fact, not elite at all. They have a flair for RP as do some of us who are zoners but they CAN ONLY RP. I have known Gormal for some time and I consider him both a good Zoner as well as good RP'er (always zoning with a tankard of ale and style > function come to mind). In his case, he did not need to impose himself on others to complete his quest and I respect him for that. However, a problem arises when people who love to quest do impose. If a group of 15 is required to further a quest designed for one person, I respectfully request that the Imms listen to all members of the group and perhaps develop a story for each of them based on their responses.

Both of my points tie in to my only major qualm with the state of affairs in the quest sphere. Simply put, I would like to see all members of a group included. Time can allow mudders to be part of a quest (point 1) but when that time comes, I would like to see all group members given a chance to participate and further their story (point 2).

I do not mean for these points to be seen as inflamatory, only realistic. When people go to a zone, they like the chance to win an item. Perhaps they will not win an item this trip but if they keep at it, they will. Questing should be the same way. Thank you for your time.

Rachaz
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 26, 2002 1:37 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rachaz:
<B>I would like to say two points about god quests that I believe are important to this conversation.


I led many god run quests this wipe as well as an FNAT almost every friday night. Though I did not agree with the rewards or the concepts, I led these FNATs and enjoyed them as much as possible. I respected the amount of effort the gods put into it. After showing my respect for the quest staff and my flair to rp, a regular zone group I was leading was given a god quest. I was extremely happy about this because I happen to like when all 15 people in the group can participate. I will go over this in my second point... Due to a misunderstanding, I am no longer given any quests but this does prove that it is possible to be given a quest in time.


My second point is more important to me. People seem to be talking about a quest elite on this post. I believe that the quest elite are in fact, not elite at all. They have a flair for RP as do some of us who are zoners but they CAN ONLY RP. I have known Gormal for some time and I consider him both a good Zoner as well as good RP'er (always zoning with a tankard of ale and style > function come to mind). In his case, he did not need to impose himself on others to complete his quest and I respect him for that. However, a problem arises when people who love to quest do impose. If a group of 15 is required to further a quest designed for one person, I respectfully request that the Imms listen to all members of the group and perhaps develop a story for each of them based on their responses.


Both of my points tie in to my only major qualm with the state of affairs in the quest sphere. Simply put, I would like to see all members of a group included. Time can allow mudders to be part of a quest (point 1) but when that time comes, I would like to see all group members given a chance to participate and further their story (point 2).


I do not mean for these points to be seen as inflamatory, only realistic. When people go to a zone, they like the chance to win an item. Perhaps they will not win an item this trip but if they keep at it, they will. Questing should be the same way. Thank you for your time.


Rachaz</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Rachaz..

Couple of points:

1. Yes you had an unfortunate mis-understanding during a quest , but that did not prevent you from further questing. You may not have run Into another quest since that, but that is the only reason why you havn't seen one. As you recall, Iuz and Malar worked that issue out with you.

2. We don't always quest a group, but that is often the case. In any event, when we quest a group, it is up to the group members to participate as much as they want. Sometimes, a group leader will ask for just one spokesman, but not always, and most often we purposefully include as many people in the quest as we can (as we did in the lasy VS quest). So already, when we run quests for groups, everyone is included. I have not experienced yet what you describe, but your limited exposure to quests thus far could explain that.

Cheers,

Miax
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Jul 26, 2002 1:57 am

I hope the quest staff actively works on including the entire group in their quest activities. That's really the only qualm I have with what the sphere as a whole has been doing... spending time tailoring a quest to one member of the group, while the other 4 or 10 or 14 members simply tag along for the combats.

If I could change one thing about the quest structure, that would be it. You don't have to tailor quests to everybody, but I would like to see the questing god be more open to input from the non-chosen members of the group.

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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'
leebo3
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Postby leebo3 » Fri Jul 26, 2002 12:55 pm

Flash back to 1995!
I really love Sojourn, I've left a few times but I always return. I've had my share of disagreements with the staff, but with this latetest incarnation of Sojourn the entire attitude of the staff and players has changed for the better. No more petty bullshit, no more sensless punishments, and I thought no more angry theats.
A staff post above literaly made me sick to my stomach to read and see the return of bad ways yet again. I've got a nasty sour taste in my mouth now that I'm sure will be there awhile.
I'm not one to preach normally (cause Im basically a bad person) but I will today.
If you have a problem with a person or a persons posts then delete them and let them know not to post that sort of drivel again etc etc but don't make sad threats on the BBS. It REALLY makes you look bad and makes the entire staff and Sojourn itself lose a little. Uh man I'm really am sick here, this is the worst sort of behavior and the staff is not alone in doing it either.

I consider Sojourn my home, and nobody likes mud and shit tracked into their home.

I'm done and I'll stand by what I wrote. Lets return to better times and better ways.

Aluntra/Orag

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Aluntra Windhammer, Defender - Legion of the Lance
sok
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Postby sok » Fri Jul 26, 2002 6:54 pm

I just want to say that sometime the god has quest plan but the group dont wanna do it cuz they already plan to zone. i remember onces we were headed to cloud. the god kept trying to get us to quest but we were like no way not another useless quest for more uesless badges. of course this was not said but i think that's what was felt. i guess my point is that i know the gods make the effort to quest folk. heck they even try to quest me, and i not a good rp/questor type person. so if they try to quest me i'm sure they prolly will try to quest you folks who are itching to quest.


of course i thank when it's over and i had fun, sok the lazy and reluctant questor.
Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:51 am

I tried to better explain all this and put some solid conclusions around it in the Announcements forum.

We're taking a breather.

Miax
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Jul 31, 2002 3:31 am

been gone two months or so.

you guys promised..PROMISED there would be no artifacts in the game this time around.

an artifact, as in previous incarnations of this mud, was either one or two instances of an item that is not obtainable by all members of the playerbase who are willing to put in the same amount of time.

you guys promised. people kept starting threads asking for it, and you restated the promise.

now it's broken?

the playerbase is the smallest it's ever been. there is less of a place for artifacts now than ever before.

questing is great. restringing is awesome. unique items are NOT fun.

however if items like gormal's helm are available to anyone who's willing to quest, are you guys gonna make yourselves avalaible?

it's just opening too many loopholes that will get blasted.

right or wrong, future opportunities or not for whomever, no more unique items. ok?

[This message has been edited by Teyaha (edited 07-30-2002).]
Jurdex
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Postby Jurdex » Wed Jul 31, 2002 3:59 am

Miax promised artifacts would not return.

They have not.

You guys are making up your own definition of what an artifact is and then busting his chops for it. You have to go by the man's statement. By his definition of what an artifact is.

The people who either had artifacts or who grouped extensively with those who did know that Gormal's crown would be a poor excuse for a unique on Toril (some were quite powerful). It most certainly is *not* an artifact.

No one has lied. Stop making up your own definitions for things...

Dornax
Jurdex

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Est Sularus Oth Mithas
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Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Jul 31, 2002 6:06 am

yeah ok.

you can classify things all you want.

yes i know this is not listed on the old board the gods had of all the artifacts they have in the game and who has them.

but it's an item that no one else in the game can own. not because it's a restring of something that exists, but because nothing else in the game has stats that good.

uniques are always bad. uniques tell the population that favoritism exists, whether or not it actually does is moot. uniques foster jealousy and hatred, because it's human nature to feel as such. uniques tell new players that this is probably a good 'ol boys network, whether it's true or not is irrelevent..it's an appearance.

when flammeys were changed to magic, and made !clericable there were still a lot out there that were still clericable, even though !magic. they were all eventually globally changed, because folks were still plevelling their clerics and druid with them. why cant stuff like roots belt be changed?

questing is great. it's fun (still waiting on the rewards promised our group from christmas for finding all them demon doods on the planes, btw), but now giving out unique loot you will have people wanting in for the loot, and not for the sheer enjoyment of roleplaying.
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Postby Corth » Wed Jul 31, 2002 6:54 am

Hrmm, the more Teyaha bitches about favoritism the more im starting to think that favoritism is a good thing..

Corth

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Goddamned slippery mage.
Branthur
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Postby Branthur » Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:46 am

Schrike, this thread isn't dead yet?

Just play the game..fer cryin out loud.
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Jul 31, 2002 4:44 pm

If there is human (staff) intervention in the quest process, there will be favortism and the people who are friendly with the staff will get more rewards.

If the quests are all hard coded, there will be twinkage and the people who are zone elite or lootmongers will get more rewards.

Interestingly, there is a great deal of overlap between the two groups of players mentioned above. So y'know what, there's really no solution that will please everyone. And there have always been items that are out of reach of 99% of the player base. No, you will never have gormal's crown. Last wipe, you probably also didn't have golden eyes of the king or dragon cult robes. You probably didn't have a swirling dragon tattoo either, or both moonblades, or any one of a number of quest items and ultrarares.

http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000734.html

My post near the bottom of that thread sums it up here. Yes, there are things on the mud that are designed to be limited to just a few players. Put in the time committment to be one of those players if that's what you want, or don't. If you don't have the time/roleplay/quest committment of someone like Gormal or Waelos, then you won't reap the same rewards they do. And I think that's ok. Greater investment, greater return.

I've wanted a bow restrung to "Ragorn's Longbow of Indiscriminate Justice" for about 5 years now, but it just won't happen Image

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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'
Nymn
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Postby Nymn » Fri Aug 02, 2002 10:35 pm

Hrm.. so you guys played during the time when Actual artifacts were in the game..and you're whining about an extra 1hit/-2ss on a crown?
*blink*
you're kidding right?
i mean seriously..you watched..oh say..ilshadrial..solo things that I've seen xp groups get spanked on(no they weren't exactly leet groups..but nevertheless.i wanna see gormal do that Image..and you're whining over 1hit/-2ss?
that's not an artifact..it's like an enchantment Image

I could understand if his item were *anywhere* near on par with the items given out in the days of soj1..but it's not.. he doesn't proc and hit 10+ times a round.. he doesn't leech.. he has an extra hitroll.. oh man i think wet myself.

I mean seriously listen to yourself, what exactly are you whining about? think that he got an ultra rare, and if you turn RP on and quest hunt for 6 months, maybe you'll get it too.would you feel better then? Would it make a difference?

There're a lot of things on this mud you'll never see because you don't put the time in for it. I put uhm.200 days in..and the best i can say is i at least saw most of it given to people i was grouped with Image

shrug..just amazes me that you can possibly see *this* as a return to artifacts.get real.

Nymn

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Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Sat Aug 03, 2002 4:02 am

My Nymnwussy Image

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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'
Jorus
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Postby Jorus » Sat Aug 03, 2002 4:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Teyaha:
<B>
but it's an item that no one else in the game can own. not because it's a restring of something that exists, but because nothing else in the game has stats that good.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Teyaha, would you like some factual information to go with your rant?

Gormal's hat would be a poor excuse for even tiamat equipment. I could cite exact stats, but I won't (generally not a thing to do on the bbs), and if you don't know, obviously you should have kept quiet. It's better than any eq I've heard of is different from it's better than everything.

And if you DO know that Gormal's crown doesn't approach Tiamat equipment... You should have kept quiet too. False statements and/or lies and all that really aren't conducive to an effective argument. Or rant as the case may be. Jeez.

Oh wait, you did know it doesn't come close to Tiamat equipment (the headwear in particular). Why? It's been said in this thread several times.

Once again, my theorem that mudders are largely illiterate holds (and no, it's to wide-spread to be personal :P).

Regards,
Jorus
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Postby Salen » Sat Aug 03, 2002 11:43 pm

Once again, my theorem that mudders are largely illiterate holds (and no, it's to <------ wide-spread to be personal :P).

Regards,
Jorus


The wrong 'to' was just to support your claim right?



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emote Rescuepractice
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Sun Aug 04, 2002 1:41 am

you still know it's not right jorus.

or maybe you dont, because maybe you plan to get some unique spanky piece of equipment, one of a kind, because you feel yourself that special.


it's still wrong. it's a one of a kind. we were promised nothing like that would happen this time around.

so why dont we just give everyone one of a kinds, or at least an equal shot at one of a kinds.

oh right, you cant. you guys only want 13 people to play the game total and god forbid anyone new come along.

rofl.
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Postby Daz » Sun Aug 04, 2002 1:48 am

need more than 13, you have to take into account that some people sleep - so you need 13 people on at all times, in 8 hour shifts, 5 days a week, you need about 39 people, give or take for overtime.

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Postby Yayaril » Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:45 am

Help me! Teyaha is sucking the intelligence right out of my head!!! Someone, help me, pleeeaaase!

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-Yayaril
Jurdex
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Postby Jurdex » Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am

Teyaha, who said there would be no more one-of-a-kinds?

Miax said there would be no more artifacts.

News Flash: there are no artifacts in the game.

Anyway, one-of-a-kinds are ANY restring, kinda amusing you bitch only when a one-of-a-kind happens to have stats modified instead of just the name.

Dornax
Jurdex

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Est Sularus Oth Mithas
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cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Sun Aug 04, 2002 11:14 am

He's just angry he is no longer asked to come along for groups, after changing class twenty times and selling/trading all the eq he had, losing a little value each time, until now he is now not liked by the majority of players.

Too bad. You had a high level enchanter, and you could have had everything you ever wanted if you'd just stuck with him.

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Postby zusuk » Sun Aug 04, 2002 3:40 pm

sounds like someone is being trashed on! but anyhow, i was thinking that any 50th level char that has a story, rp's, last name, and has a certain playing time should be allowed to quest for a unique item like jormal's... that'd be pretty cool... btw, i haven't read this huge thread, so this might be slightly out of place

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-Zusuk
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:36 pm

cherzra - you're funny man.

jurdex - restrings are not one of a kind, not really. it's just something that exists in the game with a different name. i've never heard anyone ever complain about restrings, ever.

it's when one player has an item that no other player can ever have in the game, because it was made for them specifically. there is a difference.


cherzra - laugh again!
Jurdex
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Postby Jurdex » Sun Aug 04, 2002 8:01 pm

Uh, since when are restrings not one-of-a-kind? I don't see anyone else out there with the badge I have, and I don't think I ever will. Look at Verarb sometime. The guy has a ton of uniques from doing zone invasions and winning bids on it. No one else has his restrings. Thats one-of-a-kind. (although his eq set is FUGLY!)

Only when stats are messed with do people complain.

If 1 hit and 2 svspell affect your lives this much, then there are more serious issues to be dealt with than the staff not holding true to their stance on no artifacts (in reality they aren't holding true to the definition you've given artifact, because they haven't put artifacts in the game).

Dornax
Jurdex

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Est Sularus Oth Mithas
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Postby Ragorn » Sun Aug 04, 2002 8:04 pm

Teyaha can define terms and argue semantics all he wants. Miax promised no artifacts, there are no artifacts. The only definition of artifact that applies is the one Miax posted. That is all.

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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Aug 05, 2002 4:21 am

perhaps ragorn, and we are all entitled to our opinions. that's all this board is anyway, our opinions.

that does not make it less wrong in my eyes, though. custom tailored gear given to a player by an administrator it unheard the non-free GMUD's (eq, daoc, ao, etc), partly because the programmer/creator bosses would throw a fit and partly because the pbase would throw a fit when they heard about it - whether it's a piece of crap eq or the best is completely irrelevent.
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Postby celara » Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:04 am

Celara meekly questions the staff 'How do I get a restring token?'
Celara asks quietly 'How do I get a neeto minor upgrade on an item?'
Celara lowly whispers 'Wheres the next god-quest going to be?'
Celara turns away and frowns.

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Just as soon as I belong/Then its time I disappear
Gromikazer
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Postby Gromikazer » Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:00 pm

You don't by asking those questions.

Often those who receive restrings, uniques etc., are those that aren't looking for them, and have fun with the game, no matter the eq they wear.

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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:10 pm

Choosing only people with the RP flag is wrong IMO. The idea is good, but in practise RP flag means nothing.

I see plenty of people who have RP on, but they don't RP any more than me. There are even people who I never see roleplaying, doing everything OOC, but they still have RP up.

I don't roleplay, but am willing to for quest purposes. Does that mean I toggle my RP flag on? No, because I don't think it fitting to turn it on when I don't really use it. RP flag shouldn't be used in hopes of getting a quest.

I'm not saying people who have the flag on are abusing it in the hope of a quest, my point is that I think almost everyone is willing to RP for a quest. So it might be nice to take some people without RP flag too.

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Jurdex
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Postby Jurdex » Mon Aug 05, 2002 9:26 pm

Well, Cherzra there is another way of looking at it.

I have my RP flag toggled on as well as 75% of my zone group. We're heading to do say manscorpions. A quest God sees this and has a cool quest already worked out so the quest God drops some hints.

My group has the choice of pursuing the quest or doing the zone. However, the fact we have our RP flags toggled on at least lets that quest God know that we're open to RP. I've heard where some groups didn't want to have anything to do with a quest and thought it was wasting their zone time.

Having your RP flag toggled on at least indicates to the quest God that you're at the bare minimum open to questing over or before zoning.

Dornax
Jurdex

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The Raven of Wisdom

Est Sularus Oth Mithas
"My Honor is My Life"
Caedym
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Postby Caedym » Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:13 am

I think it's interesting to note that the majority of gripes/whines/bitches and/or general unpleasantness is coming from the evil's side in this thread. I also noticed that for a time there most, not all, of the Quest sphere gods were/are goodies. I’m not totally sure but correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t that mean that those staff members who are/were evils probably aren’t questing current evils as a preference for a reason?

Perhaps current evils are handicapping themselves with your own actions towards your community members. If you continually segregate and discriminate in your groups against who gets to go to zones, who gets equipment, who gets into good exp groups, who gets assisted in quests, or who gets help with killing rares, those who are shafted and/or left to do little besides RP and exp with a few friends, could be the very people who are in turn returning the favor via the Questing Sphere actions?

Think about it? If you continually screw most people over, including myself, and I’m a quest god, do you honestly think I’d give a shit about Questing you as a Staff member?

If you’re looking for a bias against something…

Maybe the ‘clique’ is it?


The Sojourn 3 Staff rocks. Absolutely. 100%. Best it’s ever been. If you don’t think so fuck off and run your own mud. I’d like to see you try.


-Caedym Shadowhock (Not a current Soj3 Staff member)

P.S. Wisest thing I ever learned was just to assume any player could be a staff member in disguise judging what kind of person you are.


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[This message has been edited by Caedym (edited 08-06-2002).]
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Tue Aug 06, 2002 8:03 am

"a unique item like jormal's"

ROFL 0wn3d nermal without even trying, Zusak is my new hero!

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Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:08 am

I spent long time reading over all these three pages. Was hard, took long time but i did it. Just thought I'd comment on the fun I have had rplaying my character.

I spent years developing Nilan's rplay character. It has been the most fun I have had on this game in all my years playing. Before was mostly writing and rplaying with all i could, those that were receptive I developed fun times with. Those that weren't I didnt press the issue. But this past year this new rplay quest theme has been the best addition to this game. I love it and I try to take every chance I can to build on lil nilan's character.

I tried and I still try to include all people in these quests. Its unfortunate when i am told "what equipt are we gonna get? or whats in it for me? " This is not the reason to do rplay quest. Its to be fun, character building, rplay fun. Then I say, its not a quest for equipt, its a rplay type quest would you all like help me and have fun. On numerous occassions im told "We dont do god quests, or if only your gonna get something why would i risk dying? etc....." When I say but im not getting the equipt, its a rplay quest, it just ends up back to square one again.

I know most of you (well evils anyway cause I dont have a goodie) know i have asked on many times if ya all like participate/help etc....
If you all want to rplay, why not say "Sure Nilan, lets go try have some rplay fun" The opportunities have presented itself to many...but often none take advantage.

I have done what I had to do to work on rplay quests alone or with those willing to help. And yes, i will continue to rplay lil Nilan.

I hope most will consider the opportunity the next time its placed before you. forget about the gear, the deaths etc...rplay is lotta fun , plus it gets a neat story line for your characters if ya keep at it.

Fun Fun

Nilan

ShadowStalker - Drow Assassin
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:52 am

>P.S. Wisest thing I ever learned was just to assume any player could be a staff member in disguise judging what kind of person you are.

And why should you do that, cuz your supposed to treat gods special so that things will go favorably for you in rules interpretation, quest, ect? I think that is exactly the kind of thing we don't want to have and the underlying theme here, favortism.

I dislike ass kissers far more than I dislike assholes.

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where ara you my rittle raabuuri
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Tue Aug 06, 2002 10:57 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nilan:
I tried and I still try to include all people in these quests. Its unfortunate when i am told "what equipt are we gonna get? or whats in it for me? " This is not the reason to do rplay quest. Its to be fun, character building, rplay fun. Then I say, its not a quest for equipt, its a rplay type quest would you all like help me and have fun.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was one of the persons who voiced objections when Nilan needed help with some godquest, so I want to explain my point of view here.

Getting tangible rewards (promised, and close to guaranteed before hand) is the only way any serious EVIL would ever help someone for. It completely breaks my sense of belief to "rp" my evil-aligned drow as unselfish.

The last god quest I was in that i recall, some Sahaugin wanted help to defend their sea from the attack of sea elves. Why would I, as an evil-aligned drow and devoted to the god Vhaeraun, even consider helping a Sahaugin against some elves, without getting payed for my efforts?

also, IF we are RP'ing for a godquest as evils, we better have a good reason to follow person X to do Y. "Please help me" is not a valid reason if you are evil align. You either get X to help you if you pay him something, or have something to force him, or if he can see a benefit directly in helping you.

EVIL is not about being kind of helpful to anyone, that is what being GOOD is

Sorry for being blunt, but it is MUCH harder to RP as an evil without being "goodies with dark ansi-names".

Jegzed helps any evils with rp-god-quests, as long as there is some way for himself to gain in it.
OTOH, I have a lowbie paladin, he'd help any goodie no questions asked with a quest.


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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition

[This message has been edited by Jegzed (edited 08-06-2002).]
Sehanine

Postby Sehanine » Tue Aug 06, 2002 4:13 pm

I have been staying out of this thread, even though there were several times I wanted to address things that were brought up. However, I'm very glad that you brought up my quest, in particular, because there is so very much about it that addresses some of the issues you've brought up about quest staff, RP events, and favoritism.

The Sahuagin RP event was my first big one to be pretty much flying solo. There were a lot of blunders and nasty little snafu's I came across while doing that quest, which were great learning opportunities for me. As the first really big one I was to run, I put in a BUNCH of research into it.

The breakdown of the quest was that sea-elves, under the command of the queen of Leuthilspar, were attacking Skerttd-Gul. An emissary sought assistance from Dubloth Kyor blah, blah, blah... have to have some reason to approach the players, right? The players approached were offered all booty from the invasion, and it was hinted at the fact that once Skerttd-Gul fell in that area, then the elven armies would have an open sea-route to the south, and therefore to Dubloth Kyor (by the game map), so there was a rather large element of self-interest there, especially for the drow.

"The last god quest I was in that i recall, some Sahaugin wanted help to defend their sea from the attack of sea elves. Why would I, as an evil-aligned drow and devoted to the god Vhaeraun, even consider helping a Sahaugin against some elves, without getting payed for my efforts? "

As the ancient enemies that the elven people and the drow are, the only reason a drow typically needs to kill an elf is that the elf is breathing. The idea that the elves were planning much more, and perhaps held Dubloth Kyor in their future sights, was presented many times throughout the course of the quest, as well. The idea that there was wealth in abundance held by the sea-elven army and that it would be open pickings for the questors was brought up several times. The drow are proud of their warparties and surface invasions, it is cosidered an honor to be included in one, and I tried to play on these facts as the Sahuagin, as Sahuagin are also a warrior people, but it was to no avail.

I had run several smaller quests previous to this one, and have never had a problem questing the good side. The one that I ran for the evils went basically fine, as it was for low levels, although one higher level player did walk by, make a reference to "the stupid quest gods," spit on me, then slapped me, I brushed that off and went on. Trying to run the larger one was a nightmare. I was told very bluntly by several of the potential participants that if I couldn't offer them something nice up front, then they wouldn't play. One of the players even named his price, several high-end pieces of equipment. If this were RP, it would be different, but the players weren't doing any RP to request rewards, they were basically saying "it's stupid of me to play in this quest because my character wouldn't do it if you didn't give me something, now what are you going to give me?" One player even petitioned that if we didn't offer substantial rewards we could just write the evils off.

There were several restring tokens held by the larger mobs involved in the quest, and when I cleaned up afterwards there were close to 100 prestige tokens left lying on the sea floor. All through the event I got to listen to some of the players complain out loud how stupid it was, how there was no reason for them to be there, and generally how crappy I was as a member of the quest staff.

I never asked anybody to be kind and helpful. What would have been my eventual goal was a full evil invasion of Evermeet. Part of what we were trying to do with the campaign was begin long-range storylines, with payoffs in the end which would have been very well worth it, and smaller payoffs along the way which STILL would have been worth it for those who wanted to participate. If your character is all about instant gratification, then I can see why you'd demand payment for every single thing you do, instead of even trying to look at the larger picture, but drow aren't necessarily about instant gratification. Drow spend years and years planning aspects of their plots, and can very patiently wait for the right opportunities. Your RP is how you choose to play it, of course, but I think you're applying some attributes to the drow which might be a tad narrow, thereby limiting your own options. I definitely think there were some players that night who were unwilling to look beyond the instant gratification concept in order to see the long-range rewards involved.

So after that night was over I was tired, depressed, and frustrated. I swore that I would never quest evils again. I groused a bit, muttered a while, took a couple of players' names in vain, and then put it behind me. Since that time I have presented aspects of the bits I was working on to both the goods and evils, and the idea of a full evil invasion of Evermeet is still in my mind. There is not a single player whom I would not quest, although there are players that seem to appreciate the "fun" aspects of the questing more than others, so I have to admit I would be more inclined to approach those who seem more approachable. I have not been nearly as active as I should be, but I keep hoping I will rebuild my enthusiasm.

I don't think it's a question of who is better at RP, but more who is more fun for me to quest. I do this for fun, and that's what pays me off... not a paycheck, not a sense of power, not the ego-trip. If it's not fun, then there's absolutely no reason for me to do it, and I'm absolutely not going to be stuck in a situation where I have to spend hours and hours and hours of my time putting forth an effort for people who go on and on about how badly I suck, I simply don't see that as fun. Some of the most fun RP events I have helped out with were involving players whom I have never met in the mud, and had no idea who they were, so there could have been no favoritism involved.

If I have to offer rewards up front in order to get evils to quest, then I can guarantee I won't be questing evils. I will present the story and then evils will have to make their choices as to whether or not they want to participate. Rewards will be part of the quest as it happens and as they are deemed suiting, heck they may not be offered at all, but I will NOT use them as bribes to get people involved in something that's supposed to be fun. If being involved in the quests we run is not your idea of fun, then walk away from them. Staying around and grousing because you're hoping for a reward spoils my fun, and it spoils the fun of the people who just want to participate.

Sorry to be babbling on so, but what I'm trying to state here is that there was a whole lot more to that quest that night, and only a small handful seemed to pick it up. That handful helped me to repeat it several times, but the rest of the group never seemed to get it, or just couldn't understand the long-term aspects of it, or were just too focused on the belief that if we weren't giving them something up front then we were just ruining their fun. I know that the group had previously been involved in a nasty series of spanks, and was tired and slightly on edge, and I sincerely apologize for the bad timing. It would be my preference to have only those who really want to participate along on events. If that leaves no groups to play with me then so be it, I'll scale down and run smaller quests for those people who want to run around in groups of two or three.

I cannot speak for others in my sphere. If they have had bad experiences with some people, then it would seem to me that it's their choice if they want to involve those people in quests in the future. At this moment in time there is nobody I won't at least make the attempt to play with. I do have certain names of people in mind who have behaved in such a way as to try to spoil the events for others, and will watch to see if it's an ongoing issue. You want to act like an ass that's your privilege to continue to do so, just don't get up in arms when down the road I don't choose to include you in an event.

I just want everybody to play nice and have fun. This is a wonderfully rich fantasy world we have to work with. It is Miax's baby, but he has given the quest staff the ability to bring whole new levels of depth to it. The quest staff has VERY stiff reins placed upon them by the other areas now and it will not be a free-for-all like it was before, but that does not mean that there won't be rewards for those who join us for some fun. The rewards may not be instant, but the potential is there. Do not play for the colored ansi reward, play if you find it fun to do so and it'll pay off one way or another.

Sehanine - Goddess of Dreams and Transsomethingsomething
Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:21 pm

Hugs Sehanine,

I had ton o fun playing with that Sahaugin Image In fact I think we even roleplayed a potential greater picture, encompassing Nilan's desire for Retribution. The fact that grey elves were so close to invading my homeland was enough for me to defend those sea people (plus i got to go swimming too) *grin*

I thought the work you all put into these quests is great and alot of fun. I have been commenting to many how bored I am on this game now that quests are in slowdown til ya guys get more help.

Hurry back, I miss it. Image

Heheh Jegzed and Nilan play for very different reasons. The wizard told me point blank that night I offered to help that Sahaugin. He said "I dont trust you, assassin". Im not sure if he meant it, I took it as roleplay and well I went with it. In the future, Jegzed, we will no doubt meet up again *wink* I look forward to it , wizard Image

But I miss doing rplay quests, so hurry back Image I got some leads I wanna try out Image
And If my people condemn me for it, so be it, in time even they will understand *bow*

Nilan

Drow Assassin

*who fears nothing but maybe big huge driders and spiders*
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nilan:
Heheh Jegzed and Nilan play for very different reasons. The wizard told me point blank that night I offered to help that Sahaugin. He said "I dont trust you, assassin". Im not sure if he meant it, I took it as roleplay and well I went with it. In the future, Jegzed, we will no doubt meet up again *wink* I look forward to it , wizard Image</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was RP. I love ya bro Image


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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:45 pm

Quest-God says 'Elves are attacking Skettrd-Gul! We need help!'

Greedy Evil says 'I won't go without upfront payment.

Lame Evil says 'Quests are stupid and boring and we won't get anything out of it. I'm going to jot instead, who else wants to go?'

Creative Evil says 'I've no love for the sahuagins, but my blade thirsts for the blood of vanquished elves, I'll go to appease my bloodlust.'

It's really not hard to RP a reason for an evil to quest. Hell make up some BS story about how a Gnome tried to kill you in the woods yesterday and you want revenge or something. I don't blame the quest sphere for ignoring evils if your attitude is "payment up front."

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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'
Caedym
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Postby Caedym » Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:47 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>>

And why should you do that, cuz your supposed to treat gods special so that things will go favorably for you in rules interpretation, quest, ect? I think that is exactly the kind of thing we don't want to have and the underlying theme here, favortism.


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No Caz, the point was to treat them with respect. If you treat everyone with equal amounts of quality respect, you'd be for the better, no? Notice I didn't say a Quest staff member, but just a 'staff member'

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Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sehanine:
If I have to offer rewards up front in order to get evils to quest, then I can guarantee I won't be questing evils. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I didn't get myself understood.

If the sahaugin had negotiated a price of 100 gold coins it would have been enough for RP purposes. Or a shiny gemstone worth 5p.
Or if you are planning to give out a restring token, then you could say "if you do this, you will get a shining sword from blablahblah.."

It just does not feel right for me to RP as an evil drow to do things for causes.

/Jegzed, just trying to RP as an evil.

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