Yea..a bunch of you are thinking "Outcast is lame!" well how lame is sitting at DK fountain or 3w for hours because there is nowhere to go.
For the imm's that don't want to police it up like the old days, hey don't..maybe there is a hardcode solution?
As it stands you can't enter a portal until level 20. So make it so that if you're a goodie, you can't follow an evilrace until 20.
Once you follow said evilrace character you are given a disclaimer (much like the one when you try to quit out of the game), that explains in depth what will happen if you follow said baddie, and are in fact outcasted.
You say yes or no, and if you say yes, you are outcasted to somewhere like bloodstone or BG or somewhere else that evils/goodies can go to.
Before you so fervently veto the idea, or deny that this is necessary, take a couple days and check the who list. It's not getting any bigger, if anything it's getting smaller. Racewars is a cool concept when you have 150 on each side, but realistically, that's not going to happen.
Just an idea.
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Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
Good/Evil Pbase, Solution?
This would be a great idea imo, but a drawback i see is that people might stop playing evil races, and opt for gnome enchanters instead of dayblind drow and just outcast it etc...
However, with every good idea, there is a twinky drawback somewhere. If my vote counts for anything, i vote yes on this one. I think there are a lot of great players on the evils side and they should have the opportunity to zone and have fun just as much as the goodie side w/o having to give up the fun of rp and friends they have aquired on the evil side.
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"Kill them all, God will know his own." -Domingo de Guzman, A.K.A Saint Dominic
However, with every good idea, there is a twinky drawback somewhere. If my vote counts for anything, i vote yes on this one. I think there are a lot of great players on the evils side and they should have the opportunity to zone and have fun just as much as the goodie side w/o having to give up the fun of rp and friends they have aquired on the evil side.
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"Kill them all, God will know his own." -Domingo de Guzman, A.K.A Saint Dominic
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
why even have good and evil races if your gonna let them group together. you kill a lot of the variety sojourn offers and perhaps even some balance by doing this. i am 100% against this.
If you wanna be able to zone all the time play a goody or have one of each.
as an alternative suggestion, one which would add variety and options without drastically reshaping the world/culture, I might suggest a new neutral race / class that is both an evil and a good race. All the penalities, a fraction of the benefits, but most importantly able to group with anyone. I'll start a thread.
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where ara you my rittle raabuuri
If you wanna be able to zone all the time play a goody or have one of each.
as an alternative suggestion, one which would add variety and options without drastically reshaping the world/culture, I might suggest a new neutral race / class that is both an evil and a good race. All the penalities, a fraction of the benefits, but most importantly able to group with anyone. I'll start a thread.
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where ara you my rittle raabuuri
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
as an alternative suggestion, one which would add variety and options without drastically reshaping the world/culture, I might suggest a new neutral race / class that is both an evil and a good race. All the penalities, a fraction of the benefits, but most importantly able to group with anyone. I'll start a thread.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Theres that too, why not make Humans neutral? Barring pallys/rangers making them neutral to everyone would give them a little more boost than "hey we have average stats"
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Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
[This message has been edited by Ensis (edited 08-26-2002).]
as an alternative suggestion, one which would add variety and options without drastically reshaping the world/culture, I might suggest a new neutral race / class that is both an evil and a good race. All the penalities, a fraction of the benefits, but most importantly able to group with anyone. I'll start a thread.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Theres that too, why not make Humans neutral? Barring pallys/rangers making them neutral to everyone would give them a little more boost than "hey we have average stats"
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Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
[This message has been edited by Ensis (edited 08-26-2002).]
Evils used to zone alot. Its just that i think (and know) in some cases that alot of Evils are on vacation etc. Once schools start up again/people return from vaction things will be as it was.
Outcast is not a good idea or even a solution. Having played and outcast i can speak to this.
Outcasts destroy the rplay atmosphere of the game. As stated why have good and evils if one can outcast? Furthermore, the ONLY person that benefits from outcasts are GOODIES.
Besides, people are returning from vacations. A bunch of us OD, Sigil and a few BloodRaiders i think banded togther and did Manscorpions last night. Was a blast.
Be patient, It will come.
Nilan
Drow Assassin
Outcast is not a good idea or even a solution. Having played and outcast i can speak to this.
Outcasts destroy the rplay atmosphere of the game. As stated why have good and evils if one can outcast? Furthermore, the ONLY person that benefits from outcasts are GOODIES.
Besides, people are returning from vacations. A bunch of us OD, Sigil and a few BloodRaiders i think banded togther and did Manscorpions last night. Was a blast.
Be patient, It will come.
Nilan
Drow Assassin
I would looove to see outcasting back in some form, gives us a chance to meet players from the other end of the spectrum and vs vrsa without making an evil or a goodie. It's also good RP, because not all humans are goodies. I wouldn't go so far as to say that an outcast human could go into the UD, but they should be able to group with willing evils.
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Verzul / Dulzuth - Jabbuk D'faer - Orbdrin D'oloth
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Verzul / Dulzuth - Jabbuk D'faer - Orbdrin D'oloth
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B>Why do only goodies benefit from outcasting?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Goodies aren't the only ones that benefit, they're the only ones that can do it sure, but in the end it isn't that big of a benefit.
I played an outcast druid throughout Soj1, my first char got outcasted at level 6 and i didn't know any better. It doesn't rip at the fabric of the game and it certainly doesn't "destroy the RP atmosphere" Trolls/Ogres/Drow/Illithid/Yuan/Duergar aren't exactly best buddies in the literature, the one race you'll find throughout most fantasty stuff on the good bad or neutral side is humans.
Why are the few evils against it SO adamant about it?.. do you think you get some kind of bragging rights because you managed to find a way to do stuff with 5 guys? Wouldn't you rather do that as an option instead of being forced??
The challenges of being an evil should be in regards to hometowns like Hyssk, not because you have to learn to basically Solo because nobody is on.
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Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
<B>Why do only goodies benefit from outcasting?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Goodies aren't the only ones that benefit, they're the only ones that can do it sure, but in the end it isn't that big of a benefit.
I played an outcast druid throughout Soj1, my first char got outcasted at level 6 and i didn't know any better. It doesn't rip at the fabric of the game and it certainly doesn't "destroy the RP atmosphere" Trolls/Ogres/Drow/Illithid/Yuan/Duergar aren't exactly best buddies in the literature, the one race you'll find throughout most fantasty stuff on the good bad or neutral side is humans.
Why are the few evils against it SO adamant about it?.. do you think you get some kind of bragging rights because you managed to find a way to do stuff with 5 guys? Wouldn't you rather do that as an option instead of being forced??
The challenges of being an evil should be in regards to hometowns like Hyssk, not because you have to learn to basically Solo because nobody is on.
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Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
I've always wanted to see a character something like a half-orc that was allowed to group with both good and evil races. Handicap them with much lower stats than other races, ALL stats, and let them be warrior, cleric, enchanter, rogue. The lower stats would be because there would have to be hardcore negatives to any race which had the ability to group with both goods and evils. Another negative would be to make them unable to quest for quest spells, or any of a number of penalties they would have to suffer due to their halfbreed outcast state.
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Disoputlip
- Sojourner
- Posts: 956
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Copenhagen
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
I've always wanted to see a character something like a half-orc that was allowed to group with both good and evil races. Handicap them with much lower stats than other races, ALL stats, and let them be warrior, cleric, enchanter, rogue. The lower stats would be because there would have to be hardcore negatives to any race which had the ability to group with both goods and evils. Another negative would be to make them unable to quest for quest spells, or any of a number of penalties they would have to suffer due to their halfbreed outcast state.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, and then they could max level to 41. And also they would have 1 random slot missing, (lost ear, leg, whatever).
Their skills also shouldn't exceed 50 under any circumstances.
I've always wanted to see a character something like a half-orc that was allowed to group with both good and evil races. Handicap them with much lower stats than other races, ALL stats, and let them be warrior, cleric, enchanter, rogue. The lower stats would be because there would have to be hardcore negatives to any race which had the ability to group with both goods and evils. Another negative would be to make them unable to quest for quest spells, or any of a number of penalties they would have to suffer due to their halfbreed outcast state.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, and then they could max level to 41. And also they would have 1 random slot missing, (lost ear, leg, whatever).
Their skills also shouldn't exceed 50 under any circumstances.
i have friends from both side and like grouping w/ all of them. however, oc is bad idea. oc was necessary back when but not now. being oc is a great power. why make a yuan snake if u can have a human snake taht can group w/ evils? but it doesn't matter i wont give anymore points cuz this is a waste of time. gods will not change it cuz the arguments against oc is greater than anything for oc. low player base shouldn't be cause for being oc back.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sok:
i have friends from both side and like grouping w/ all of them. however, oc is bad idea. oc was necessary back when but not now. being oc is a great power. why make a yuan snake if u can have a human snake taht can group w/ evils? but it doesn't matter i wont give anymore points cuz this is a waste of time. gods will not change it cuz the arguments against oc is greater than anything for oc. low player base shouldn't be cause for being oc back. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yuan's SHOULD have some of the best innates/stats of the game considering their hometown. Either the helpfile or their stats should be revamped IMO.
Thats always kindof been the idea for evilraces was badass innates, cool stats, but a heavy penalty with dayblind/hellacious hometowns. Thats what I thought should make them for advanced players, not the fact that the pbase is low.
I don't think the evils are whining about not being able to zone, read most of the responses they prefer things the way they are.
I think the racewar concept is whats killing the Evil Pbase, I know it is not the people there because I've received warmer welcome there than most of the time on the goodie side. Evils do have it tougher, and if I'd have to pick anyone to say they're "elite" it would be them. They face more adversity than they should as a result of being so small in numbers.
With such dwindling numbers, can the mud really afford to be factioned?
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Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
i have friends from both side and like grouping w/ all of them. however, oc is bad idea. oc was necessary back when but not now. being oc is a great power. why make a yuan snake if u can have a human snake taht can group w/ evils? but it doesn't matter i wont give anymore points cuz this is a waste of time. gods will not change it cuz the arguments against oc is greater than anything for oc. low player base shouldn't be cause for being oc back. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yuan's SHOULD have some of the best innates/stats of the game considering their hometown. Either the helpfile or their stats should be revamped IMO.
Thats always kindof been the idea for evilraces was badass innates, cool stats, but a heavy penalty with dayblind/hellacious hometowns. Thats what I thought should make them for advanced players, not the fact that the pbase is low.
I don't think the evils are whining about not being able to zone, read most of the responses they prefer things the way they are.
I think the racewar concept is whats killing the Evil Pbase, I know it is not the people there because I've received warmer welcome there than most of the time on the goodie side. Evils do have it tougher, and if I'd have to pick anyone to say they're "elite" it would be them. They face more adversity than they should as a result of being so small in numbers.
With such dwindling numbers, can the mud really afford to be factioned?
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Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ensis:
Yuan's SHOULD have some of the best innates/stats of the game considering their hometown. Either the helpfile or their stats should be revamped IMO.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed!!!!
Yuan's SHOULD have some of the best innates/stats of the game considering their hometown. Either the helpfile or their stats should be revamped IMO.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed!!!!
it would never work, simple as that.
First of all, if anyone can group with anyone, several characters become obsolete, myself included. Why have a barbarian tank when you can have a troll tank? They have more hps, regenerate, higher str, bigger for bashing etc etc etc basically goodrace warriors cant stack up against them. I use this as an example because i am a warrior, but im sure many classes have this same problem.
As for outcasting, it provides the same difficulties. Think waaaaaay back if you were here for when rangers and paladins couldn't group with evil aligned people. At first, rangers and paladins got 0 groups because everyone was evil aligned, and were useless. Then they got neato skills and everone went neutral except for me, so i had no groups. Then i went outcast, and i got a few groups with friends but again why bring a barbarian tank when u have a troll or an ogre. Outcasting is a bad idea, no matter how you slice it.
P.S. Low player base is the ONLY thing holding back evils, and don't tell me they are harder to play. Evils are harder to play at the lower levels, but once you get up passed 40 its smooth sailing. They have better stats, better innate abilities, im pretty sure every evil race has either infravision or ultravision<if you think thats not a big deal, try walking around without it> and they get fun uber eq that is evilrace only and kicks the snot outta anything else in the game: See lava pendant, wait till dbones come back in. To top it all off, they get fun little quirks like mobs in the hardest zones in the game not being aggro to them, like commoners in brass and various mobs in the clouds.
It's too bad there are never any evils around, if you want to group with them, go roll an evil im sure they'd be happy to level you up. Wait till everyone comes back and see how much help they need. Better yet put Outcasting back in, let these people go OC to group with trolls, and watch them sit around with nothing to do when all the evilrace players of their class come back, and the evil leaders realize that the evils are so much better than the goodies at their class that they have no use for them.
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Thanuk Pantherclaw
First of all, if anyone can group with anyone, several characters become obsolete, myself included. Why have a barbarian tank when you can have a troll tank? They have more hps, regenerate, higher str, bigger for bashing etc etc etc basically goodrace warriors cant stack up against them. I use this as an example because i am a warrior, but im sure many classes have this same problem.
As for outcasting, it provides the same difficulties. Think waaaaaay back if you were here for when rangers and paladins couldn't group with evil aligned people. At first, rangers and paladins got 0 groups because everyone was evil aligned, and were useless. Then they got neato skills and everone went neutral except for me, so i had no groups. Then i went outcast, and i got a few groups with friends but again why bring a barbarian tank when u have a troll or an ogre. Outcasting is a bad idea, no matter how you slice it.
P.S. Low player base is the ONLY thing holding back evils, and don't tell me they are harder to play. Evils are harder to play at the lower levels, but once you get up passed 40 its smooth sailing. They have better stats, better innate abilities, im pretty sure every evil race has either infravision or ultravision<if you think thats not a big deal, try walking around without it> and they get fun uber eq that is evilrace only and kicks the snot outta anything else in the game: See lava pendant, wait till dbones come back in. To top it all off, they get fun little quirks like mobs in the hardest zones in the game not being aggro to them, like commoners in brass and various mobs in the clouds.
It's too bad there are never any evils around, if you want to group with them, go roll an evil im sure they'd be happy to level you up. Wait till everyone comes back and see how much help they need. Better yet put Outcasting back in, let these people go OC to group with trolls, and watch them sit around with nothing to do when all the evilrace players of their class come back, and the evil leaders realize that the evils are so much better than the goodies at their class that they have no use for them.
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Thanuk Pantherclaw
Thanuk,
Uh, well, if you were planning on going OC do you think it would be smart to do it with a barbarian warrior? Obviously not. You would think of something that might be decent for the evils, if in fact your plan was to become OC'd.
Second, OC'd people would no longer be able to group with goodies. So, everyone wouldnt be able to group with whomever they wanted like you put it.
I really dont know why I am fighting for it, evils dont want it...they would rather sit around picking fleas off the backs of the other two evils that are logged in.
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"Kill them all, God will know his own." -Domingo de Guzman, A.K.A Saint Dominic
[This message has been edited by Kifle (edited 08-30-2002).]
Uh, well, if you were planning on going OC do you think it would be smart to do it with a barbarian warrior? Obviously not. You would think of something that might be decent for the evils, if in fact your plan was to become OC'd.
Second, OC'd people would no longer be able to group with goodies. So, everyone wouldnt be able to group with whomever they wanted like you put it.
I really dont know why I am fighting for it, evils dont want it...they would rather sit around picking fleas off the backs of the other two evils that are logged in.
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"Kill them all, God will know his own." -Domingo de Guzman, A.K.A Saint Dominic
[This message has been edited by Kifle (edited 08-30-2002).]
Uhm, do you know what Outcasting even is?
If you did, then you would realize that if your a good raced outcasted person you are still allowed to group with other goodies, except rangers and paladins. The only other restriction would be that you can't go into waterdeep. Oucast does not make you a goodraced person in an evil aligned world...outcast means outcast from Waterdeep, not outcast from society.
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Thanuk Pantherclaw
If you did, then you would realize that if your a good raced outcasted person you are still allowed to group with other goodies, except rangers and paladins. The only other restriction would be that you can't go into waterdeep. Oucast does not make you a goodraced person in an evil aligned world...outcast means outcast from Waterdeep, not outcast from society.
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Thanuk Pantherclaw
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>Outcasting is not coming back.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
what about selective grouping? :P *duck*
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Cap'n Touk
Ah the never ending good / evil debate has provided endless amusement for us all has it not? Both sides have a different mentality, evils appear to me as a closer nit group of people who expect a higher standard of play out of each other. Goodies are a broader group of people that cross group frequently and to me appear more easy going.
<B>Outcasting is not coming back.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
what about selective grouping? :P *duck*
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Cap'n Touk
Ah the never ending good / evil debate has provided endless amusement for us all has it not? Both sides have a different mentality, evils appear to me as a closer nit group of people who expect a higher standard of play out of each other. Goodies are a broader group of people that cross group frequently and to me appear more easy going.
Zellin!!!! yeay come back soon bud! and tell grp to move and start playing already :P
seriously i think maybe antipals and goodrace necros should maybe be allowed to group with us. from a roleplay perspective they're evil enough arent they? I know it won't happen, but it makes a small amount of sense.
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Grul-Diggity!
seriously i think maybe antipals and goodrace necros should maybe be allowed to group with us. from a roleplay perspective they're evil enough arent they? I know it won't happen, but it makes a small amount of sense.
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Grul-Diggity!
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