I was thinking (yes i know, a dangerous habbit)
Any moron can strap on a shield and poof they are at least fundamentally harder to hit. In our world, armor class has decreased. However, why is it that only warriors learn shieldblock? I'm not implying that a cleric or a mage or whoever would ever be GOOD at shieldblock.
However, even an idiot like myself can go out and learn how to use a sword and shield (SEA competitions for those who care). My point being, if some video store manager computer mud lackey can go out and learn to use a shield better than just straping it to my arm. Why in the name of all things toril wouldn't a character who lives, and dies by battle (after all the mud is combat based if we like it or not) can't a character learn to USE the shield they wear.
I'm just suggesting giveing mages, clerics, rangers, rogues, and all other forms of wank a shield block skill at oh whatever 25th level. Allow them only to notch it to a nominal 30 or 35. More than the "hey so-n-so look! I bought a piece of steel and a strap and it sticks to my arm!" but less than the "Hey buddy! i've been a warrior for 50 levels and this shield has saved my life more times than Zoldren has had fun with pink goats."
oh well..as with any string on this board I completely assume this will go into rant soon and not much will come of it...but figured if a fool like myself can learn to USE a shield ..why wouldn't a character who would live a longer life learn...
To shield block or not to shieldblock!
never implied downgrade warriors
nor make mages/clerics and so on tanks..
simply saying that if i were standing toe to toe with an enemy for 40 slashes of his sword...i might be able to block a few if I had a sheet of steel strapped to my arm.
not exactly sure how adding a nominal skill level ability to other classes 'downgrades' anything else..
Zajan/Myre
nor make mages/clerics and so on tanks..
simply saying that if i were standing toe to toe with an enemy for 40 slashes of his sword...i might be able to block a few if I had a sheet of steel strapped to my arm.
not exactly sure how adding a nominal skill level ability to other classes 'downgrades' anything else..
Zajan/Myre
Gruld tells you 'in dnd rules mages cant use shields w/o a 20% or so chance of spell failure'
good point...didn't consider that perspective..
perhaps if the skill only worked when not casting? hurmph may be too complex to recode...wondering if dodge works while casting..
maybe i'm just insane..but good point when discussing it with a warrior..
good point...didn't consider that perspective..
perhaps if the skill only worked when not casting? hurmph may be too complex to recode...wondering if dodge works while casting..
maybe i'm just insane..but good point when discussing it with a warrior..
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Disoputlip
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Disoputlip:
<B>I think it would make sense to remove dodge from clerics and then give them shieldblock. It would fit clerics much more, and ppl would stop holding eggs.
/Disoputlip</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
CHEERS!
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-Daz "<^> (*¿*) <^>" Proudwolf
<B>I think it would make sense to remove dodge from clerics and then give them shieldblock. It would fit clerics much more, and ppl would stop holding eggs.
/Disoputlip</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
CHEERS!
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-Daz "<^> (*¿*) <^>" Proudwolf
*sniff*
Ambar got her purdy egg from Gromi and Baibai (they busted their rumps for those eggs)... and intends to hold it til she can't .... the hours it would take me to get shieldblock up to decent would suxor at this point ... (hey come on guys I know we are all level 50 .. but we gotta prac shieldblock! xp xp *groan*)
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Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
Ambar got her purdy egg from Gromi and Baibai (they busted their rumps for those eggs)... and intends to hold it til she can't .... the hours it would take me to get shieldblock up to decent would suxor at this point ... (hey come on guys I know we are all level 50 .. but we gotta prac shieldblock! xp xp *groan*)
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Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
Cool! First we take shieldpunch from warriors and give it to (anti)paladins and casters who get almost !fail stun, then we take tanking skills and make them near useless so any cleric with spells can tank almost as good, then we give rogue skills to illusionists, and now let's give shieldblock to clerics. I love it!
You guys are mostly missing 1 critical point to this suggestion..
(as you can tell from Cherzra's snide sarcasm)
if the skill never gets over a certain skill notch it's hardly going to make a damn bit of difference in making a cleric into a warrior like tank. Furthermore...half the reason casters don't assist in battle is all it does is get you riposted.
Gee mr. mean nasty drow soldier is about to hit me in the head with a sword..... gee... i have a shield... nah in my current state i'd rather try to move out of the way than simply block the shot with the item i'm wearing anyways.....
Like i said. In a short time this will turn into an Upgrade warriors downgrade others string....and of course nothing will come of it anyways.. after all it's the BBS a place for us to vent without any possibility of change.
I just figured i'd toss this out there and see what intelligent arguements we could get back...regardless of the mental shortcommings of sarcastic responses that have had very little thought behind them besides... how is this going to affect the fact that some people think warriors suck.
(as you can tell from Cherzra's snide sarcasm)
if the skill never gets over a certain skill notch it's hardly going to make a damn bit of difference in making a cleric into a warrior like tank. Furthermore...half the reason casters don't assist in battle is all it does is get you riposted.
Gee mr. mean nasty drow soldier is about to hit me in the head with a sword..... gee... i have a shield... nah in my current state i'd rather try to move out of the way than simply block the shot with the item i'm wearing anyways.....
Like i said. In a short time this will turn into an Upgrade warriors downgrade others string....and of course nothing will come of it anyways.. after all it's the BBS a place for us to vent without any possibility of change.
I just figured i'd toss this out there and see what intelligent arguements we could get back...regardless of the mental shortcommings of sarcastic responses that have had very little thought behind them besides... how is this going to affect the fact that some people think warriors suck.
Sometimes you just have to put realism aside for game balance. I've already seen situation in minor zones where the cleric with 1200 hit points has tanked over the warrior with 800. Giving clerics shieldblock would only compound that problem.
You'd have to cap it so low that it wouldn't make a difference in combat, and then you'd just be giving clerics a skill for the sake of giving it to them.
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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'
You'd have to cap it so low that it wouldn't make a difference in combat, and then you'd just be giving clerics a skill for the sake of giving it to them.
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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'
Mages with shieldblock? nope.. they've spent their life learning spells and stuff, so they're lucky they can use a few small shield at all.
Rangers been too busy learning dual wield.. what would they want with a shield.
Rogues.. I don't think they can even use shields, which makes sense, cuz how are you gonna sneak around with a clunky shield.
The only ones it would kinda make sense giving shieldblock to is clerics, since we're supposed to have some battle experience. But it would be overpowered, even with a low skill cap. I'd rather just see cool +hp shields with some ac or other stat effect for clerics so I don't have to hold silly orbs.
Rangers been too busy learning dual wield.. what would they want with a shield.
Rogues.. I don't think they can even use shields, which makes sense, cuz how are you gonna sneak around with a clunky shield.
The only ones it would kinda make sense giving shieldblock to is clerics, since we're supposed to have some battle experience. But it would be overpowered, even with a low skill cap. I'd rather just see cool +hp shields with some ac or other stat effect for clerics so I don't have to hold silly orbs.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rylan:
I'd rather just see cool +hp shields with some ac or other stat effect for clerics so I don't have to hold silly orbs.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Try visiting demi
The buckler is damn cool IMHO.
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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
I'd rather just see cool +hp shields with some ac or other stat effect for clerics so I don't have to hold silly orbs.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Try visiting demi
The buckler is damn cool IMHO.
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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
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Eilorn
- Sojourner
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Using shields does give everyone 'shieldblock', most people think of it as AC. The 'shieldblock' that warriors have is above and beyond the AC that everyone gets.
Eilorn.
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Now, we can do this the hard way, or... well, actually there's just the hard way.
-- Buffy, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"
Eilorn.
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Now, we can do this the hard way, or... well, actually there's just the hard way.
-- Buffy, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"
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Disoputlip
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I said in my post INSTEAD of dodge. If it was implemented then I figure gods would just take the dodge skill and make it shieldblock, thus you didn't need further practice if you had notched dodge.
The reason is that I see dodge as a rogue skill, and shieldblock as a warrior skill. And clerics are more of a warrior than a rogue in their platemails etc.
Also, warriors get both dodge, parry, shieldblock. Clerics would then only have shieldblock.
Yes, this would mean something with a skill going away from dex, and over to some other skill, and I havn't really though about balance. This is strictly a roleplay issue from my side.
/Disoputlip
(Edited something away for awesomeness)
[This message has been edited by Disoputlip (edited 09-21-2002).]
The reason is that I see dodge as a rogue skill, and shieldblock as a warrior skill. And clerics are more of a warrior than a rogue in their platemails etc.
Also, warriors get both dodge, parry, shieldblock. Clerics would then only have shieldblock.
Yes, this would mean something with a skill going away from dex, and over to some other skill, and I havn't really though about balance. This is strictly a roleplay issue from my side.
/Disoputlip
(Edited something away for awesomeness)
[This message has been edited by Disoputlip (edited 09-21-2002).]
"Mages with shieldblock? nope.. they've spent their life learning spells and stuff, so they're lucky they can use a few small shield at all.
Rangers been too busy learning dual wield.. what would they want with a shield.
Rogues.. I don't think they can even use shields, which makes sense, cuz how are you gonna sneak around with a clunky shield.
The only ones it would kinda make sense giving shieldblock to is clerics, since we're supposed to have some battle experience. But it would be overpowered, even with a low skill cap. I'd rather just see cool +hp shields with some ac or other stat effect for clerics so I don't have to hold silly orbs."
Deflecting some blows with a shield is an extremely basic ability. While parrying requires angling a weapon correctly to avoid breaking your own weapon (or giving your opponent the ability to just slide down his blade and cut off your thumb) and dodging requires attention to footwork, the opponent, and your surroundings, inserting a large item between you and an incoming object is extremely simple. For another example to go with Myre's SEA one, it only takes one lesson to teach someone how to do some basic blocks in an unarmed martial arts style. It's just a matter of telling them to stick their arm out at a certain angle. Getting them to do it well is another matter entirely, but they'll be able to stop at least a few attacks even with that basic knowledge.
Of course, since priest classes can tank too well already, I'm against the idea from a balance standpoint but I still am obligated to 0wn Rylan whenever possible.
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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
[This message has been edited by Treladian (edited 09-21-2002).]
Rangers been too busy learning dual wield.. what would they want with a shield.
Rogues.. I don't think they can even use shields, which makes sense, cuz how are you gonna sneak around with a clunky shield.
The only ones it would kinda make sense giving shieldblock to is clerics, since we're supposed to have some battle experience. But it would be overpowered, even with a low skill cap. I'd rather just see cool +hp shields with some ac or other stat effect for clerics so I don't have to hold silly orbs."
Deflecting some blows with a shield is an extremely basic ability. While parrying requires angling a weapon correctly to avoid breaking your own weapon (or giving your opponent the ability to just slide down his blade and cut off your thumb) and dodging requires attention to footwork, the opponent, and your surroundings, inserting a large item between you and an incoming object is extremely simple. For another example to go with Myre's SEA one, it only takes one lesson to teach someone how to do some basic blocks in an unarmed martial arts style. It's just a matter of telling them to stick their arm out at a certain angle. Getting them to do it well is another matter entirely, but they'll be able to stop at least a few attacks even with that basic knowledge.
Of course, since priest classes can tank too well already, I'm against the idea from a balance standpoint but I still am obligated to 0wn Rylan whenever possible.
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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
[This message has been edited by Treladian (edited 09-21-2002).]
I donno about !fail stun..nobody relies on my charging in lieu of shieldpunching in zones :P..pallys are mainly backup rescue if theres a warrior with more hps.
As far as giving sheildblock to someone, i think if you were ONLY shieldblocking than yea anyone could try it, but shieldblock while attacking at the same time takes coordination. Thats like giving dual wield to clerics and mages because they can hold an egg in each hand. leave em with dodge i say.
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Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
As far as giving sheildblock to someone, i think if you were ONLY shieldblocking than yea anyone could try it, but shieldblock while attacking at the same time takes coordination. Thats like giving dual wield to clerics and mages because they can hold an egg in each hand. leave em with dodge i say.
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Ensis Inferni
Bish Enterprises Inc.
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 1999 Fydollaho Productions.
Deflecting some blows with a shield is an extremely basic ability. While parrying requires angling a weapon correctly to avoid breaking your own weapon (or giving your opponent the ability to just slide down his blade and cut off your thumb)
I don't know if I would go as far as extremelt basic! Maybe your analysis of parry is true for a fine sword, but for the bloody great magical hammers most clerics use I'm not so sure. Couldn't a sword slide off a shield and lop off your head just as easy as off a weapon?
I still am obligated to 0wn Rylan whenever possible.
VERY good point!
I think that this could be a good idea in the interest of balance? Change dodge to shield block, but the skill would have to be significantly lower than the dodge skill as shieldblock functions differently. So then, clerics must wear a shield if they want a chance to avoid attacks. I like the idea of holding a shield greatly interfearing in magical abilities also. "Scuse me mob, just gotta wave my arm above my head to cast the spell, mind hititng my shield up there for a bit?" So then, the cleric in the long run, or definately in a group is not going to want to use a shield. Would give little solo clerics a better chance again those dastardly cats and rats, and keep zoning clerics in their spots. If you then decide that you can't tank good enough still, perhaps make warrior? :P
... on the other hand, my druid can tank far better than my warrior in a solo situation given that I can go outside heal and come back...
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I don't know if I would go as far as extremelt basic! Maybe your analysis of parry is true for a fine sword, but for the bloody great magical hammers most clerics use I'm not so sure. Couldn't a sword slide off a shield and lop off your head just as easy as off a weapon?
I still am obligated to 0wn Rylan whenever possible.
VERY good point!
I think that this could be a good idea in the interest of balance? Change dodge to shield block, but the skill would have to be significantly lower than the dodge skill as shieldblock functions differently. So then, clerics must wear a shield if they want a chance to avoid attacks. I like the idea of holding a shield greatly interfearing in magical abilities also. "Scuse me mob, just gotta wave my arm above my head to cast the spell, mind hititng my shield up there for a bit?" So then, the cleric in the long run, or definately in a group is not going to want to use a shield. Would give little solo clerics a better chance again those dastardly cats and rats, and keep zoning clerics in their spots. If you then decide that you can't tank good enough still, perhaps make warrior? :P
... on the other hand, my druid can tank far better than my warrior in a solo situation given that I can go outside heal and come back...
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"I don't know if I would go as far as extremelt basic! Maybe your analysis of parry is true for a fine sword, but for the bloody great magical hammers most clerics use I'm not so sure. Couldn't a sword slide off a shield and lop off your head just as easy as off a weapon?"
Not unless they slapped the shield with the flat of the blade in all liklihood. With many shields, a sword tended to cut a groove into the shield, preventing movement of the weapon briefly. That in addition to the loss of velocity upon impacting the shield means that a quick, transitionary strike capable of doing lethal damage isn't too likely. We're talking about people wearing armor after all.
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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
Not unless they slapped the shield with the flat of the blade in all liklihood. With many shields, a sword tended to cut a groove into the shield, preventing movement of the weapon briefly. That in addition to the loss of velocity upon impacting the shield means that a quick, transitionary strike capable of doing lethal damage isn't too likely. We're talking about people wearing armor after all.
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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
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kiryan
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i dont think the fact that a player doesn't have a shieldblock skill doesn't mean that they never block an attack with a shield in combat.
I would suggest that there is a lot more going on in a combat round other than just 2 or 3 attacks. If a combat round is 30 seconds then you might have a bunch of circling, 5 or 6 feints... a couple of which become what you might consider a real attacks.
having the shieldblock skill means a lot more than having the intelligence to raise a shield up in front of every swing.
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where ara you my rittle raabuuri
I would suggest that there is a lot more going on in a combat round other than just 2 or 3 attacks. If a combat round is 30 seconds then you might have a bunch of circling, 5 or 6 feints... a couple of which become what you might consider a real attacks.
having the shieldblock skill means a lot more than having the intelligence to raise a shield up in front of every swing.
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where ara you my rittle raabuuri
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