Recent Bard Mods

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Guest

Recent Bard Mods

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 02, 2002 11:56 am

Figured the news entry was a bit vague, wanted to give some basic details:

1. The mana cost for songs was dropped some.
2. Song of Renewal maximum was increased.
(The combination of those should ease mana problems)
3. Regeneration, Healing, Offensive Harmony, Offensive Disruption, Defensive Disruption, Sorcery, and Harming all had their maximum affects (and also the average result) upped some.
4. Miscast Magic and Protection received a fairly significant boost similar to those others, but more.

Coming Soon:

1. Accompany will have its affect increased.
2. The maximum affect for songs will increase when being accompanied.

Keep in mind that it's the Accompany skill that increases the quality of the song, so if your skill in it isn't all that high it won't have as much of an affect.

Also, you can circle (this has always been the case, but not in help files) while accompanying (but not backstab).
Nokie
Sojourner
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Postby Nokie » Wed Oct 02, 2002 3:15 pm

Can anyone who knows a great deal about the 'new' bard class give some pointers to those rolling a bard what attributes are key to have high?

------------------
Nokie 'No you don't!! That belongs to me!' Quickfingers
Tanji Smanji
Sojourner
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Oct 02, 2002 3:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nokie:
<B>Can anyone who knows a great deal about the 'new' bard class give some pointers to those rolling a bard what attributes are key to have high?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tanji senses both the return of Noke Arrier and many many more requests for citadel runs in the near future....

------------------
How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.

Weylarii group-says 'oh shit! my penis is stuck in the toaster. afk'
Glorishan
Sojourner
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Postby Glorishan » Wed Oct 02, 2002 4:47 pm

This sounds an awful lot like Nokie considering an alt?!

Glorishan


------------------
Gormal group-says 'damn im worthless'
Aldira
Sojourner
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:01 am
Location: USA

Postby Aldira » Wed Oct 02, 2002 5:24 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nokie:
Can anyone who knows a great deal about the 'new' bard class give some pointers to those rolling a bard what attributes are key to have high?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the order I rolled for attributes:
1) Charisma! This affects song power as well as how much PSP you gain, and since there actually are cha_max items out there, having it as high as possible is a great advantage.
2) Dexterity. I wanted the extra dex attacks, and a high hitroll so I could try and be a real hitter. This is also the stat instrument skills are based on!
3) Con/str/int. These three are all important. I managed to barely hit the last con notch, got a decent strength, and decent int (85 and 80 respectively). I'm not sure how important int is, it doesn't seem to affect the power of songs or stutter rate at all.
4) Agility. I just like not getting hit Image
5) Pow/wis. Power doesn't do anything, wisdom I didn't really think was important, at least it doesn't seem to affect anything.
Yayaril
Sojourner
Posts: 2551
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Postby Yayaril » Wed Oct 02, 2002 5:54 pm

Nokie has already written up every single trigger, alias, and script that will allow him to carefully plot how many times his bard blinks, eats, drinks, gets a cobblestone stuck in his shoe, passes by someone wearing purple, and hears a Monty Python quote whilst in Waterdeep. Then he'll relay this information back to us with the use of graphs and tables of information. I can't wait!

------------------
-Yayaril
Gurns
Sojourner
Posts: 554
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Gurns » Thu Oct 03, 2002 5:03 pm

Thanks for the details, Iyatchu!

As for rolling a bard, the short answer: I pretty much agree with Aldira.

The long answer:

On the one hand, a bard can use all stats. Even power, to not get psi-zapped (I believe) and wis (which helps us hide). OK, those two are minimally useful, but the other six are potentially useful for a bard.

On the other hand, a bard doesn't need more than the minimums listed in "help bard" to be a viable PC on Soj3. You'd have some problems, but you'd still be a great help to a zone group. Since six stats are useful for a bard, and you're never going to roll six quality stats, you're never going to roll the ultimate bard PC.

(A) Race. I would say the best races for bards are (dang it!) grey elf and halfling, maybe in that order, maybe not. Then half-elf. After that, I'd say dwarf, then human. But the races aren't all that different, the difference between an elf/halfling bard and a human bard looks to be much less than the difference between a dwarf/barbarian warrior and a gnome warrior.

(1) Con. The first stat I look at is always Con. I don't know where the last bard notch is, but it's not too high. But you want to be easily ress-able, because bards die easy. Not often, if you know what you're doing, but easily. I would say "mighty" or above, but I'd say that for any class.

(2) Charisma. That's the bard stat, your song power depends on this. "Perfect" is convenient, but "heroic" is fine, since there are at least a couple of >+6 Cha equips out there that are in reasonably plentiful supply, at the moment. So you'd need only "lose" one slot to get 100 Cha. Even a "mighty" Cha roll works, if your other stats are great, because the bard min is 90, so you can stick a bonus or two into it.

As far as I know, half-elves, halflings, and grey-elves can all hit the top Cha notch with the +max_Cha equip that is currently available in the game. Haven't run a lot of tests on this yet, though, and it's based on prices, which perhaps don't notch in the same place as song effects. Caveat emptor.

Don't worry about PSPs/mana. It's dependent on race, not Cha. That is, your mana doesn't change if you wear +Cha equip, only if you wear +mana equip (and when you level, of course). And whatever race you are, mana management is a problem at the low/mid levels, but not high levels.

(3) Dexterity. Low level bards are essentially rogues, at least if you want to level. Hitting xp >> healing and mob death xp.

Dexterity also affects how often you stutter. Stuttering is a pain, especially at low skill levels, where it burns what little mana you have.

On the other hand, if you have the right equipment, wearing equipment to get you to 100 Dex even if you roll a "Good" does not lose too many slots for a bard, who can wear (almost) anything that isn't flagged both !thief and !mage. If you're a newbie, getting such equipment might be close to impossible. If you're an old hand, you may already have what you need.

(4) Str. Hitting with any power, lugging anything around, moving before you're fully out of ress effect, you need some Str.

(5) Int. The minimum Int of 80 is sufficient. Sure, I learn a little slower, and my spells don't cast so fast, and maybe the 10th circle spells fail a little more often. But if me or my group have gotten into a situation where I need to cast my spells fast, we're already screwed.

(6) Agility. To get all the other stats up, this one probably has to suffer. One reason bards die easy. And why grouping with certain healers is annoying. Of course, if you roll the minimums on the first 5 stats, there's some room to get this up.

(7) Wis. Well, it would be nice to have some of this, but hiding is over-rated. Yeah. *sigh*

(8) Power. If I'm drunk enough, shouldn't that work like Mind Blank?

The summary? Through the low levels, and whenever you're xp-ing, you're going to be acting like a rogue. High level zoning, it's almost all about the singing. Bard spells are sometimes helpful, but mostly for exploring and soloing, and there are many better classes for exploring and soloing. Roll accordingly.
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 04, 2002 12:55 am

Lemme chime in with some thoughts on this:

1. Elves/Halflings have higher racial dex. This gives them the opportunity for an extra attack. Half-Elves may too, I don't recall, but it's not much higher than human, at any rate... not as high as the other two.

2. Elves receive fewer hp/level, Dwarves receive more.

3. Some races are harder to stun than others, based on their statistics. Since stun is one of the few things that can stop you singing, in picking my race I took this into account (a good reason to think about Dwarves, basically).

It all depends on what you're concerned with, really. Note that wearing charisma gear will *not* allow you to get more mana when you gain a level (including max charisma gear)... That would be silly, since you could then remove the gear and still have the points.

In reality, how you feel about a particular race has more to do with which race you'll pick than any enormous advantage any particular race has (keep in mind that dwarves have a crit bonus that somewhat makes up for the extra attack that an elf or a halfling can get).
Gurns
Sojourner
Posts: 554
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Gurns » Fri Oct 04, 2002 5:16 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Iyachtu:
<B>Lemme chime in with some thoughts on this:
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A good clarification, Iyatchu. Thanks!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">In reality, how you feel about a particular race has more to do with which race you'll pick than any enormous advantage any particular race has</font>


Of course, as we all know, half-elves are the only true bardic race, the rest are all wanna-bes, late-comers to the calling.
Nokie
Sojourner
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Postby Nokie » Fri Oct 04, 2002 5:26 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gurns:
Of course, as we all know, half-elves are the only true bardic race, the rest are all wanna-bes, late-comers to the calling.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*hi5* Gurns!



------------------
Nokie 'No you don't!! That belongs to me!' Quickfingers
Snurgt
Sojourner
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:01 am
Contact:

Postby Snurgt » Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:18 pm

anyone else find rolling a bard with good stats near-impossible?



------------------
Snurgt take no prisoner.
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:27 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Snurgt:
<B>anyone else find rolling a bard with good stats near-impossible?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

STR: 92 AGI: 96 DEX: 84 CON: 84
POW: 37 INT: 80 WIS: 37 CHA: 93

Those are mine (naked).
Snurgt
Sojourner
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:01 am
Contact:

Postby Snurgt » Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:33 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Iyachtu:
<B> STR: 92 AGI: 96 DEX: 84 CON: 84
POW: 37 INT: 80 WIS: 37 CHA: 93

Those are mine (naked).</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

holy crap how you get that, i been rolling like an hour, not even close.




------------------
Snurgt take no prisoner.
Zouve
Sojourner
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2001 5:01 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Postby Zouve » Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:38 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Snurgt:
<B> holy crap how you get that, i been rolling like an hour, not even close.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

An hour! Bwahahaha! Call us for pity when you get to a few days!

My bards naked stats:

STR: 91 AGI: 90 DEX: 88 CON: 91
POW: 35 INT: 72 WIS: 66 CHA: 81

Rolling time: I cannot admit how many hours were spent getting this roll... it is depressing.

Zouve
Burpie
Sojourner
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 5:01 am

Postby Burpie » Wed Oct 09, 2002 8:02 am

Since Itchy said earlier you can't get over 75 average for stats, how'd you get so high overall? Image *sniff*


------------------
When a mob comes along, you must kill it! Kill it good!
Daz
Sojourner
Posts: 1942
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 5:01 am
Location: newark, delaware
Contact:

Postby Daz » Wed Oct 09, 2002 8:13 am

average is 75.375

rounded down is 75

no liez

------------------
The wardens of the cage disallow all commands except say, petition, project and help
Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 09, 2002 1:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Burpie:
<B>Since Itchy said earlier you can't get over 75 average for stats, how'd you get so high overall? Image *sniff*


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did? In any case, remember that you get to add 3 rolls to your stats.



[This message has been edited by Iyachtu (edited 10-09-2002).]
taelin
Sojourner
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Contact:

Postby taelin » Wed Oct 09, 2002 6:09 pm

Hey gang-

Just some thoughts, as a lot of the new bards concepts originated in the 3rd ed. ruleset, I would love to see int removed from any equations for bard skills/effects. Cha should be the only thing checked for their quickchant/damage/duration/mana/resists etc etc etc, otherwise we have a "melee" class (currently lots of room to argue this term) that requires 2 nonmelee stats, something I beleive we left behind with soj3 (paladin's dont require 75cha anymore etc).

Oh and if theres something PSP related with Power for them at all that should be moved to Cha as well.

Lastly, if we are going to bother with this class being melee, there needs to be a vocalist skill to partially offset the lack of an instrument when dual wielding. Oh, and the melee caps are WAY WAY too low... bard melee skills should be at the very least 60% of rogue caps(I would argue 75%), for every skill that they share. Give me a break if you think this is going to infringe on any rogue.

theres my 2cp.
Sobu/Taelin
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:03 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by taelin:
<B>Hey gang-

Just some thoughts, as a lot of the new bards concepts originated in the 3rd ed. ruleset, I would love to see int removed from any equations for bard skills/effects. Cha should be the only thing checked for their quickchant/damage/duration/mana/resists etc etc etc, otherwise we have a "melee" class (currently lots of room to argue this term) that requires 2 nonmelee stats, something I beleive we left behind with soj3 (paladin's dont require 75cha anymore etc).

Oh and if theres something PSP related with Power for them at all that should be moved to Cha as well.

Lastly, if we are going to bother with this class being melee, there needs to be a vocalist skill to partially offset the lack of an instrument when dual wielding. Oh, and the melee caps are WAY WAY too low... bard melee skills should be at the very least 60% of rogue caps(I would argue 75%), for every skill that they share. Give me a break if you think this is going to infringe on any rogue.

theres my 2cp.
Sobu/Taelin</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Power plays no part in bard mana.
2. The great majority of the combat skills are at least 60% of rogue's (in fact 1h piercing is identical). Certain skills like dual wield were set at their current level to avoid special affects (like the hasted 2nd weapon attack).
3. Initially rogues were worried about bards infringing on their territory, but honestly it just can't happen.
taelin
Sojourner
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Contact:

Postby taelin » Fri Oct 11, 2002 11:45 pm

Great that power and bards never collide, this is good news.

How about int? Aside from global skills, cha based casters are sposed to use cha in lieu of int.

Lastly... i think the offhand haste is the LAST of the things to watch for... well over half the time this hand isnt even wielding... and so what if the bard wants to pretend to be a rogue for exp. If yer still concerned... check to stop the rounds that are more than 4 attacks... my orc rogue gets plenty of those and elvis and halfring rogues get them even more with the possible 6 attack round. But seems to me give them 60-75% of all melee skills and be done with it, they still dont have anything to offset the lack of an instrument so at least give them a chance to make the dual wield useful sometimes.

Taelin/Sobu

Return to “S3 Gameplay Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest