warrior skills

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gruldo
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warrior skills

Postby gruldo » Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:59 am

before i post i would like to say to all of my respectful and thoughtful co-mudders if you are going to start bitching about how everyone's class needs help in one way or another and warriors don't need anything fixed or changed i just said it for you so please don't bother posting this thread unless you have a reasonable response as to why the changes i suggest would be horribly unbalancing and kill the usefulness of every other class on the mud...

Please take the 5 minutes to read this post if you are actually interested in adding serious thoughts to the class suggestion type threads..

also i warn you that this post is frikken long..(i just re-read it) there is a summary of my suggestions at the end which is also long..

Warriors are for the most part a very complete class, having the innate skills we have are great and work out at a percentage that is in my opinion pretty much perfect.

except for bash and rescue though the usable skills are pretty innefective for warrs when zoning, and really don't get used very much.

here are the useable war skills and my take on them:

bash: bread
rescue: butter

Headbutt: great skill, but the chance of knocking yourself out limits you to doing it in arena and exp groups when your not the main tank and The chance of ko'ing a mob does make it worth the risk to alot of wars zoning when noone is going to die for your lack of being there.. a powerful skill with powerful repercussions when you screw it up
don't think this needs fixing, but also don't think it plays a serious role in most groups.

shieldpunch- does minor damage and has a very small %chance to stun. A decent skill with a mediocre success rate and a HORRIBLE learning curve. takes forever for this skill to go up and tops out at 90. This skill more than any other would be the one i would like to see get looked at, possilbly allow it to be mastered, up the success/damage a bit (i know spiked shields raise the damage, but its still pretty low.. and as far as the stun goes maybe a slight raise in % to stun but still leave it fairly low, just enough to make it not feel so worthless when you toss 20 punches and 9/10 land with 1 *maybe* getting a stun off..

dual wield: pretty much pointless for most warriors it tops out at 50 (not sure if a few of the more dextrous good races get it higher or not, like halflings or whatever, but lets face it barb warrs and troll/ogres are the norm... warriors that train in the ways of combat should either be able to dual well or not, if its not a skill you want warriors to be able to use well then it should be removed or replaced with something that we could use.. knowing that rangers/rogues/dires probably hate the idea of warriors dualing well i would suggest replacing the skill with something nice.

switch-its fine, not some huge power skill, does let you target in, but the damage you do compared to a set of force missiles on a mob is crap, so if your hitting a different mob than everyone else and have to use other skills not a huge deal, is rather nice to get off of a shielded mob when your not globed as well.. no issues either way

hitall-killer skill that should get more use.. but unless you are absolutley not needed for the battle never going to get used.. the lag on it is insane if you only use it in a room with 1 mob, let alone the additional lag you get for multiple mobs, i know that somone could pull out a crazy proccing weapon and go to town in certain zones w/this skill but the minute and a half of lag you get in say scorps makes it nothing more than an amusement skill.. id like to see the lag on this skill dropped to something reasonable, and possibly put a timer on the skill so you can only use it say every 2/3 game hours. that way you can use your hitall once maybe twice in a large fight effectively and still be able to rescue/bash/whatever else you have to do.. give it a 2/3 round lag or something and make the ability to use it finite..

disarm: its fine, comes in handy some times, not a huge priority, rouges do it just as well if not better, and usually you have better stuff to do give or take a few of the tougher fights where you just don't wanna eat that weapons proc.

kick- you kick somone. you do crap damage even on the extremely rare critical kick. i don't know what it caps at, and i don't know anyone else who knows the cap cause the only time ive ever seen it used is when somone is goofing around. give it some serious damage, the chance to slow somone down or take away some defensive ability or drop a larger opponent to its knees for a round or two cause you managed to kick out thier legs or hit em in the crotch, or get rid of it as a way to balance out making a change or two to improve/add a new skill. kick is crap, its been crap forever and with shieldpunch it doesn't even get to be crap that you use when you don't have to rescue or bash anything.. my suggestion: make it do something or remove it.

so like i said, id like to see just a small bit of tweaking to current warrior skills nothing seriously drastic. heres my summary

slight improvement to shieldpunch success and/or learning rate and allow us to learn the skill up to at least master but preferably 99 from the current 90..

either improve or remove dual wield and kick as a way to justify making other changes to warrior skills, i would be all for losing my dualing and kicking if it meant the skills i use saw a slight increase.


do something to make hitall a viable skill to use. drop the lag to something reasonable like 2/3 rounds and put a timer on it like assassinate that would keep you from using it a zillion times per battle 2 or 3 minutes seems pretty fair and conforms to the actual lag time you see if you would use it anyways make it eat up a bunch of moves could be another way to limit the use.. 30 mvs per use would limit it to 3 or 4 times a battle.. plus the time it would take in between battles to get it back up barring the use of vigs which im sure casters would tell you to piss off if you started bothering them for it in between battles..

and finally what will probably be my least popular suggestion. add a new skill or two which of course goes along with my suggestion to remove dualwield/kick i have a suggestion or two but would love to see what some longterm warrior pc's would have to suggest as well.

eyegouge? you poke a mob in the eyes and its blind for 5/6 rounds or so? size restrictions still in effect so your not poking demons/dragons in the eyes..

armbar/grapple? you don't do melee damage while using this skill but you do manage to keep whatever mob you apply the skill to unable to melee/cast/whatever as well. level/size base this to keep twink factor low obviously, and disastrous results if you fail, your flipped on your back, disengaged from whatever mob your fighting and unable to do crap for 2/3 rounds?

deathblow: a totally low ass innate %chance to kill off a mob.. like .5% so you never see it, but its just amazing when you do. it seems reasonable that you could just get that lucky and lop a head off once in a while. cap skill so it never goes past good and its seen like once a month between all the warriors on the mud but when it happens you just sit at your term and grin like an idiot..

deathgrip like assasinate a once a mud day type of thing with low low % chance of working, we are pretty much trained to kill..

just some ideas not asking for 5 new skills. but wouldn't mind one or two to spice things up and add a little fun.

all this being said I would love to see actual responses from people that have something constructive to say especially from all the warrs out there. I'd really appreciate some consideration from players and gods as this took me forever to type and is based on years of observations while playing warr chars on the different incarnations of this mud. Please take the time to comment if you agree or disagree but don't just post to comment "i think its a bad idea" and not say why, or "yeah do something about warrs!" w/no backup, and most of all please don't hijack the thread with a "screw warriors they're too powerful as it it, lets see a downgrade, now about this spell i think this class should have"

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ssar
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Postby ssar » Mon Oct 07, 2002 11:27 am

Some cool ideas..

1) kick - pretty sure kick caps at 99.
I like the kick skill, gives us a chance to throw something in occasionally. I do however agree that kick should have a slightly increased chance to do something better, like distract certain foes or whatever. I'd hate to see it taken away from warriors.

2) hitall - a bit less lag would be good i think also, this has been discused elsewhere in the bbs i think.
Something like less lag and MVs cost or something might be worth considering.

3) disarm - i like it. I think it's a tad too likely to succeed, though. (for all classes that can do it)

4) shieldpunch - hrm, i kinda like it as it is, except the chance to stun is so small. Someone mentioned elsewhere it has sorta been made redundant with so many other forms of stopping !bash casters casting, so I guess there's some possible issue there.

5) deathblow - i like that idea, would be cool, prolly has balance issues.

6) deathgrip - i dont like it for warriors, that kinda stuff is for assassins.. oops rogues i mean Image

7) dual - we seem to suck at it, but I dont beleive it should be removed from warriors. I very rarely do it, mainly occasionally for fun. Prolly ok as is.

Some skill in the 25-35 level bracket would be nice I guess, but nuthin very unbalancing.

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Postby Arases » Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:15 pm

1) Kick - I like having kick much for the same reason Mogr mentioned. However, I'd like to see the damage upped or kick having some sort of effect to the mob being kicked. Making kick floor someone to the ground, reminds me too much of Duris, though. Removing it for another skill is the least of what I'd like to happen to this skill.

2) Shieldpunch - I'd have to agree that shieldpunch has been made quite redundant due to its small % chance of stunning and of other ways and means to deal with !bash casters in zones. Perhaps increasing the chance of stun or increase in damage or maybe increase in the duration that the stun lasts.

3) Hitall - Used it once this wipe, didn't like the duration of lag. I like the idea of it having lesser lag but using mvs or it could just be used every 2-3 game hrs or so.

4) Dual-wield - Seems like a fun skill imho. And that's pretty much all it is.

5) Disarm - I find it quite useful, even though rogues can do it as well if not better. Its still a nice skill to have.

6) Deathblow - Sounds very cool. Not really sure how it could be balanced into the game.

7) Deathgrip - Don't think its warrior-like.

Overall, I don't think the warrior class needs a new skill but perhaps a look at the current ones mentioned. An improvement to the effectiveness/usefulness of kick, shieldpunch and hitall would be a good step.
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Postby cherzra » Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:58 pm

Shieldpunch is useless, you need 3 or more warriors on a single mob and even then it will still be casting offensives. It never stuns and (anti)paladin charge or stun spells are 300% as effective. It used to be the only way to stop mobs from casting. Remember that yochlol spidergaunt fight? Last wipe, it nuked the heck out of me every time I did it, with 2 shieldpunchers. This wipe, we bring a shaman to stun and *yawn* it doesn't cast a single spell.

Kick, I use it anyway because it probably does more damage than shieldpunch. I'm certain I have it capped.

Hitall is a useless skill because the lag is sick. I understand you don't want someone using it to get an extra attack every 2 rounds, but the way it is now, it may as well be removed.

Headbutt is novel, nothing more. It KOs you for 5 minutes which is instant death even when fighting a level 15 mob. Useless in zones since the leader gets pissed for the delay and useless solo, only used when XPing in groups.

What I really would like to see is defensive skills upped. Like they were at the beginning of the wipe. These days I can't walk to the toilet without a caster protecting me, or even better 5 casters protecting me. I realize that giving warriors back defensive skills would require a total rewrite of the defensive spells and combat system, and all those caster classes would have to be kept somewhat useful, but so be it. Yes, this would take long and is very hard. But what's the point of being a warrior when a reduced enchanter or cleric (who has more hp anyway) can tank practically as good as you?
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Postby Zoldren » Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:14 pm

Kick has a higher chance to stun than shield punch ..00.. and you can use kick over water ie when you cant sp/bash...

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cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:53 pm

?

I've never stunned with a kick...
Arases
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Postby Arases » Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:36 pm

Neither have I.

I know we can get a critical kick, but even that doesn't stun.
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Postby Salen » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:44 pm

I know that if a mob's kick catches in between spells, it lags me for a round before I start casting, but other than that, I've never been stunned by kick.

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Postby Sylvos » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:45 pm

Kick can lag mobs for 1 round. There are 3 different kick hit messages, and one of them includes a 1/2 round to a round lag. There is no stun effect on kick, although there are critical kicks. *shrug*

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Postby turg » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:55 pm

I will be very brief.....i think shieldpunch has added a good, new aspect to the fight system...it shouldnt hit all the time but helps lessen the load of spells not all of them....

The one thing I find wrong with warriors these days is the inability to solo, besides low level exp. I find it really funny that a defensive spellcaster can be the best soloer in the game. The only less likely solo class would probably be rogue, but then again we all know about the skills that make up for those tenfold....illusionist are crazy soloers as well...I would agree in that warriors need to be able to do more alone, the game is getting way to much spell based for me....Nuff Said

Turg

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Postby torkur » Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:21 pm

I agree with most of the above points, although instant kill/assassinate imho is not a warrior skill.

>Headbutt would be nice to have looked at. As a dwarf, I can only headbutt buffalos out east of WD with a friend to save me when i ko myself. I haven't checked on what I can headbutt embodied/enlarged, but I've also seen no cause for it in zone because of the ko chance.

>Hitall with less lag would get me to use it every once in a while versus never currently.

>Kick having a small stun or send to your knees type of effect would be nice, or raising critical kick frequency. I realize mine has only gotten up to 57 skill level atm, but I've seen more stuns off my bashes than I have seen critical kicks.

>As a suggestion instead of raising warrior defensive skills, I'd suggest adding a skill which allowed warriors to tank multiple mobs better. Something like:

Skill: weave (maybe skill cap at 50)
level: warrior 45
A warrior has an increased chance to weave away from blows when he's tanking 3+ mobs. This skill increases the number of blows a warrior defends against as the number of mobs he is tanking increases. (Maybe 1 attack off triple attacking mobs if it works?)

Something so that we can tank better than a cleric or when our spells fall. Since we're supposed to be tanking and group oriented, I don't think it'd be unbalanced.
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Postby Croban/Owom » Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:11 am

Only comment I have at this time involves the instant kill skills which I would think are !warrior. Plus, remember the mobs get the skills to. What mob isn't flagged warrior?

Those high level fights would be - "send in the three gimps" - Your skin crawls... - "ok now for the real fight"

Otherwise pretty good comments. I miss being able to kill.


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Postby Myre » Tue Oct 08, 2002 1:59 am

I really only play warriors when i'm just foolin around...but heck..here's 2 cent worth from someone who's too broke to pay attention.

Kinda a off spring of the weave skill discussed above...

how about redirect....
i.e. frost giant 1 attacks you....you not only dodge out of the way but redirect his attack to plaster frost giant 2 who is also attacking you...

almost like a riposte..but instead of blocking / strikin back..it just redirects the swing towards another opponent.

not too unlike the cheesy pirate movies where the hero dodges and doc limp leg stabs skippy one-eye in the throat!
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Postby Guest » Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:01 am

You all realize that using shieldpunch can prevent mobs from casting even if you don't stun, right? (Stop them from starting, that is).
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Postby Daz » Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:17 am

i have 20 warriors 40+. barb and troll. at least trolls have regen, no other race has that. the idea of soloing as a warrior is laughable. i'll go back to playing a warrior, til then - i'll be a feared voker or chanter. rah.

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Wobb
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Postby Wobb » Tue Oct 08, 2002 3:44 am

As someone who has played a high-level warrior now on 3 different versions (wipes) of this mud, I would like to comment.

Warriors are certainly NOT what they used to be. Great improvements have been made to the game, in general, that provide for a more interesting-to-play-in-groups warrior.

Kudos to the staff and players on making this happen. However, in the course of this, you have taken away from the soloability and even the smaller-group-ability.

Gruldo and company bring up some very good points.

1. I'm sorry but shieldpunch is NOT used in high level zones. Every caster now either has a silencing or stunning spell of some sort to shut mobs up or shut mobs down. The warrior has enough to worry about betwixt rescuing or bashing mobs that are bashable, that given any other caster in the group can probably shut the mob up, shieldpunch is worthless and lags the shieldpuncher for too long for it to be of any use. IMHO probably the least used skill I can think of that in the beginning sounded so promising.

2. Headbutt, we've been down this road before, I recall a post somewhere about headbutt being changed already...I have yet to see these changes. It still basically sucks. Personally, I'd take KO out of the picture. There is enough paralyze in the game from gythka, major para, apply poison. Just switch it to damage. This will make it used more and will still be risky if you miss a few in a row. Instead of KO, make it more like these lethal skills. Give headbutt a chance to drop a mobs hitpoints way down, or if missed horribly, drop mine down. This will provide for more interesting game play.

3. Kick. I've seen one critical kick. Didn't really impress me or the mob.

4. dual wield. I can't really say much about this. The skill does suck, but maybe it should. Take dual wield away and give warriors a bonus on using 2h weapons that other melee classes do not get.

5. I disagree on switch from Gruldo's Point of view. I think it lags too highly, and fails too often. I think a war-hardened warrior can target who he or she wants, unless stunned.

6. Hitall, pointless, I'd remove it. Make more area proc weapons for warriors only.

I may come accross as harsh, but I've been quiet trying to fit into the niche the staff have carved for the current type of game. The idea, it seems, is to make every class dependant upon the others, to encourage grouping. If this was never said, it seems obvious to me that this is one of the staff's goals. (and its a good one)

However, a lot of versatility has been removed from the warrior class and I think the above recommendations are aligned with giving warriors some fun possibilites without taking away from their dependancy on other classes.

Thoughts?


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Postby Daz » Tue Oct 08, 2002 4:06 am

if the classes are supposed to depend on each other why do most (sans one) of the mage classes have far superior solo ability? this game hates melee, and loves spells.

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Postby kiryan » Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:39 am

its easy to understand daz.

everyone has HPS which run out. Spells run out. mana runs out. arrows run out. melee does NOT run out. you never run out of circles, kicks, shieldpunches ect... therefore you can put more powerful and consistent effects on spells cuz they are limiting.. you have to mem them, you run out of them, and you have to chant them. melee and hp is the basis (read bottom and or weak if you so desire) upon which everything else is built.

However, as i argued before in a previous post, i believe the "cost" of spells or simply the sheer number available (both memd and in variety of classes) has been trivialized.

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[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 10-08-2002).]
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:55 am

You can pretty much quick chant an inferno in the time it takes a warrior to recover from kick lag.

And if you would like to imply that the warrior can make up the difference in damage by continuing to kick while the Invoker is memming out of the room, please state your case clearly and concisely.

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Postby kiryan » Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:15 am

i think i exactly said

1. melee never runs out so its proper that melee effects < nearly all other effects.
2. spell cost has been trivialized.

which part didnt you understand ragorn?

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[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 10-08-2002).]
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Postby Zen » Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:28 pm

Warriors are a very well rounded class, if a little mundane and boring. Especially for that stretch between levels 20 and 40 where you get exactly no news skills to play with. If anything, I'd like to see specialization put in for warrior defense/offense skills, just to add some variety.

That said, the current problem with warriors isn't warriors themselves, but the fact that there is only one feat that we do in the mud worth using in zones, and that's rescue. (Bash, while necessary, is a marginal zone skill for the various reasons listed above.)

What happened to the idea of all classes being usefull in a zone? I need multiple caster classes to do even a simple zone, but only one warrior and you can rock just about anything if you have the right casters.

Things as they stand right now are just horribly slanted to the side of magic users, and it's very easy to see that as warrior skills being a little weak.

-Lorgan

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Postby thanuk » Tue Oct 08, 2002 4:23 pm

Ok uhm, everything touk said except..

Switch also fails too much...i got mine to
switch opponents (very good) (81)
Not sure where it caps but it takes forever to notch, so 81/100 should land me more successful switches than 2/5, should be about double that, which doesnt happen.

Defensive skills DEFINATELY need increase.

Shieldpunch sucks. Sometimes it lags a mob if you hit him before he starts casting...if you hit him while he's casting he just laughs cuz he knows the cloud is coming right on time anyways...id imagine getting hit in the face with a heavy piece of steel would distract you considerably from casting.

Wraithforms: cant hit them, got no skills to use on em. Give us something to do during these fights...shieldpunch with magic shield, kick with magic boots, headbutt with magic headgear? i dunno how bout a new skill called "idunbelieveinghosts" where we take no damage from getting hit by it cuz its friggin incorporeal! If i sprawl right thru his chest, how come his hand hits me for 200 damage anyways!?!

raise cap on dodge to higher than 65

give us a skill that makes us not run away from dragon roars.

And the grand finale...
Give warriors a defensive skill that works ONLY when you are on the ground... If you get bashed or quaked and fall, you take an insane amount of crits and cant do jack about it...What about a reflex skill where if you fall on your back you cover yourself with your shield? Cost could be that u do not attack for the duration your on the ground, and obviously, would only work if your wearing a shield.

P.S. i like the idea of the haymaker skill, but i don't think it fits in right now. Very little melee chars even do these days, and its split up between so many classes, gotta leave this skill for the rogues.

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kragt
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Postby kragt » Tue Oct 08, 2002 4:56 pm

Skill suggestions for warriors:

Guard:
Guard <targetname> would work like preemptive rescue. A mob enters and attacks target, or tries to switch then the warrior would step in front. Can only guard one target at a time.

Specialize weapon skills. Give an increase to crit chance, hit, damage and crit damage with chosen specialization type.

Revise kick and shieldpunch to me more useful.

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Postby Ensis » Wed Oct 09, 2002 1:00 am

Why is headbutt 40th?

mercenaries got it at 20th, i dont remember when berserkers got it but it wasn't 40th.

is headbutting THAT advanced that you need to wait till you are more advanced to leanr it? :P

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Postby Daz » Wed Oct 09, 2002 1:54 am

As stated for previous reasons - headbutt sucks. I am close to mastering the skill, and it is never worth using. In a wimpy zone fight, where we fight a !bash silenced mob I might try to sneak a headbutt in, but thats about it. For soloing - well, unless I am a 40th level Troll headbutting a level 1 mob, I don't have much chance of surviving a KO.

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Postby Eilorn » Wed Oct 09, 2002 3:17 am

For the prone warrior, how about 'vital kick'? Anyone who is close enough to hit me on the ground with their weapon is close enough for me to kick in a vital area, knees for example. Image Some of these kicks should be simply stunning.

Eilorn.


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Postby Yasden » Wed Oct 09, 2002 9:54 pm

Like Itchy said...shieldpunch can actually keep a mob from wording altogether.

I did a test while doing exp...

Bashed a mob, and landed 4 consecutive shieldpunches. The mob didn't stand up for 15 rounds.

I've already posted tons about warrior tweaks and fixes, but IMHO the biggest thing that needs to be done is lowering defensive spells and upgrading warrior defensive skills.

I already suggested making hitall lag you 2 rounds for every 10 mobs you hit with it. I've done hitalls in rooms with several hundred mobs and stayed lagged for 10 minutes.

Dual wield sucks. Warriors should be able to do this a little better, I think. They are the masters of all weapons, ya know. :P

Headbutt KO needs to be looked at. A week ago I managed to KO myself 7 times in an hour doing exp. My headbutt skill is 91, too.

Disarm may land too often, but it doesn't notch worth a shit. :P Mine has notched 1x (it's at 77) in the past 6 months, and most people I group with *know* how often I use it. The only reason disarm "lands too often" now, is because it was bugged earlier in the wipe and wasn't notching at all. Headbutt was the same way, and the damage on it sucked too.

Think about how often you land bash at 90 with a good shield...it's all in the dex for disarm. Image

The code for critical kick needs to be updated I think...I've only landed 3 ever. Same thing with stun bash on smaller mobs.

I have made tons of posts on warrior things, I think I'm just being redundant now. :P

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Postby Gyrx » Wed Oct 09, 2002 10:24 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gruldo:
shieldpunch- does minor damage and has a very small %chance to stun. A decent skill with a mediocre success rate and a HORRIBLE learning curve. takes forever for this skill to go up and tops out at 90. This skill more than any other would be the one i would like to see get looked at, possilbly allow it to be mastered, up the success/damage a bit (i know spiked shields raise the damage, but its still pretty low.. and as far as the stun goes maybe a slight raise in % to stun but still leave it fairly low, just enough to make it not feel so worthless when you toss 20 punches and 9/10 land with 1 *maybe* getting a stun off..</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spiked shields do 2x damage, but I've tested shieldpunch on the little rabbits that are next to tp and It doesn't even drop their condition. So, by some basic math:

0 x 2 = 0

Zrax taught me that nifty trick!

And yes, the notch rate for this skill is horrendous. Also, I track my success rate with zmud, and my success rate for shieldpunch only improved by like 7-10% getting the skill from 20-90. Maybe just make it's damage scale in level because I can already see the balance issues with upping it's success rate with level.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">switch-its fine, not some huge power skill, does let you target in, but the damage you do compared to a set of force missiles on a mob is crap, so if your hitting a different mob than everyone else and have to use other skills not a huge deal, is rather nice to get off of a shielded mob when your not globed as well.. no issues either way</font>


Like Touk said, make it lag for only 1 round when failed please.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>
hitall-killer skill that should get more use.. but unless you are absolutley not needed for the battle never going to get used.. the lag on it is insane if you only use it in a room with 1 mob, let alone the additional lag you get for multiple mobs, i know that somone could pull out a crazy proccing weapon and go to town in certain zones w/this skill but the minute and a half of lag you get in say scorps makes it nothing more than an amusement skill.. id like to see the lag on this skill dropped to something reasonable, and possibly put a timer on the skill so you can only use it say every 2/3 game hours. that way you can use your hitall once maybe twice in a large fight effectively and still be able to rescue/bash/whatever else you have to do.. give it a 2/3 round lag or something and make the ability to use it finite.. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have this skill at 99 and would love to be able to use it in a zone.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>kick- you kick somone. you do crap damage even on the extremely rare critical kick. i don't know what it caps at, and i don't know anyone else who knows the cap cause the only time ive ever seen it used is when somone is goofing around. give it some serious damage, the chance to slow somone down or take away some defensive ability or drop a larger opponent to its knees for a round or two cause you managed to kick out thier legs or hit em in the crotch, or get rid of it as a way to balance out making a change or two to improve/add a new skill. kick is crap, its been crap forever and with shieldpunch it doesn't even get to be crap that you use when you don't have to rescue or bash anything.. my suggestion: make it do something or remove it.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Leave kick in, just please fix critical kick. I have this maxed and I believe critical kick HAS to be bugged or someone put the success rate WAYYYYYYYYYY to low. I've killed tiamat more times then I've critical kicked.


Me, I just want some fun skills for warriors. A type of specialty would rock, but the balance issues..ewwww

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gyrx
Treladian
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Postby Treladian » Thu Oct 10, 2002 12:15 am

"Leave kick in, just please fix critical kick. I have this maxed and I believe critical kick HAS to be bugged or someone put the success rate WAYYYYYYYYYY to low. I've killed tiamat more times then I've critical kicked."

Odd. I actually get critical kicks on a fairly regular basis. Granted, that regular basis is about once every two or three nights I use it, but it's certainly more than what most people have reported.

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Postby Gyrx » Thu Oct 10, 2002 12:55 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Treladian:
<B>Odd. I actually get critical kicks on a fairly regular basis. Granted, that regular basis is about once every two or three nights I use it, but it's certainly more than what most people have reported.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know if this is a possibility, but maybe it's because you're a ranger and something is wrong with warrior kick. But, and remember I did track this with zmud, I didn't get any critical hits while notching it to 99, then I used it for about a month and saw only one critical kick.


EDIT: fixed html code
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[This message has been edited by Gyrx (edited 10-09-2002).]
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Postby gruldo » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:32 am

okee, i waited till i figured most of the opinions were in to post on this thread again, and what i got from most of the posts were

people actually do use kick but they do it more for fun or for something to do to relieve a little boredom

people agree that shieldpunch's success rate is a tad low

people agree that hitall is cool, but the insane lag you get from it makes it pretty worthless in zones

it wouldn't hurt to have switch lag dropped a round

headbutt is too scary to use cause you can ko yourself in zones

people like dual wield for the novelty effect but the skill cap is crappy

and disarm works possibly too well..

so revised suggestions:

take out the ko effect and raise the damage signifigantly on a ko-type headbutt, but also raise the damage you take signifigantly on the headbutt that would ko the pc.

make disarm work a little less? (mine doesn't really work all that well but its only at 60 so...)


give kick some type of oomph.. an effect of some sort (blasts the breath out of mob, halts a casting maybe?) or better damage, and take a look at critical kicks. better success rate or crazy damage from em

lower lagtime on switch?

and the two suggestions that are the most important to me

make shieldpunch a little more worthwhile, my major suggestion would be to improve the success rate, the learning rate, and please let us learn it up to 99. stopping it at 90 is such a tease, 2 points away from being able to master it? cmon!

make hitall useable. like i said a good way to keep it from getting used a zillion times and making the skill uber would be to give it a 2 or 3 battleround lag but make it usuable only once every 2 mudhours or make each use of it cost like 40/50 moves that way the lag isn't an issue and it can't be used like mad to get off all that extra damage. I took alot of time to master it, and now that its mastered i use it in zones maybe once a month if i think i can get away with it w/o getting people killed.

also, maybe adding some fun useful skill that was suggested by myself or the others that posted this thread, but id really like to see the stuff we already have changed to be useable in zones. just to add a little more variety to what we get to do.

and finally, thanks to everyone that posted all the comments. i was glad to see all the thoughts/input everyone had, from the people that did agree and the people that didn't agree with my take on the skills.. its exactly the type of stuff i wanted to see people posting Image

hopefully one of you god types thats in charge of this type of stuff read the post heh :P

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Postby Keran » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:52 pm

I kick just for the chance of a critical. Blue ansi owns. I agree with Cherzra regarding the upping of defensive skills. I cant tank a etheral elemental w/o dying. I suppose you could also look at this from the standpoint of warriors doing 0 dam, but thats just 6 and 1/2 dozen to the other.

As for disarm, it rocks especially considering it allows you to solo level 55 mobs who wield *whistle*

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Postby thanuk » Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:29 am

gruld i like your ideas, but i dont understand everyones huge desire to limit hitall. Hitall will let you get 1 attack on every mob in the room maybe. Whats that 40 damage? 50? this isnt insane damage we are talking about, you arent exactly gonna go take out a gatehouse with 8 warriors hitalling if they can do it every 3 rounds. Honestly i could see hitall as a useful skill for preventative rescues. Your tank dies, before mobs start mowing down casters the other tank would hitall, and everything he hits would then be attacking him instead of the mages. Warriors dont do any damage anyway, even hitalling every 3 rounds isn't gonna change that. Problem arises with area proc weapons, but im sure there would be a way to limit critical hits on hitall attacks or something. i dunno why everyones worried that hitall without the lag would throw the balance off, i dont see how it would, if theres a reason please post it, im DYING to know Image

O'doyle rules!

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Postby Eilorn » Mon Oct 14, 2002 5:16 pm

A couple months ago I posted this, regarding hitall:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
How about limiting the number of mobs that hitall attempts to hit? If a mage's area spell is not going to hit all 150 cockroaches in a room, my hitall shouldn't attempt to hit all of them, and lag me for 10 minutes.
Eilorn

</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't imagine a warrior being able to reach more than a half dozen mobs, let alone being able to hit all of them in a single round. Maybe haste could modify hitall so you could hit more in a single round. But, make the skill a double round lag like most other warrior auxiliary skills.

Eilorn

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[This message has been edited by Eilorn (edited 10-14-2002).]
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Postby kiryan » Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:40 am

i would like to see an area effect melee damage skill. i dont think warriors should get it however since the class is focused on defense.

perhaps ranger/anti/paladin/dire

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