Discussion about Justice

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Malacar
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Discussion about Justice

Postby Malacar » Sun Oct 27, 2002 1:44 pm

Is there a way to make it that so once you tie someone up, and turn them in, you can't hunt them again for one full game day?

As it stands, if someone wants to be truly annoying, they can try to tie you up til their hair goes blue, drag you and turn you in, wait for you to escape, then tie you right back up.

I fail to see what this adds to the game, other than the ability for some truly annoying people to get even more annoying. I don't care if you tie me up and turn me in. I don't even care if you brag about it. What I do care about is running out past turning point, and having people chase me so I have to log an alt on to avoid them.

Yes, the easy solution is 'don't be wanted!'. But that's a cop out. This is a game, Waterdeep is supposed to be an absolutely massive city. There should be some time involved for the warrant to be 'propagated', and news of your escape to filter through the city. As it stands, anyone with track can simply ruin the game for anyone they choose.

I role-play (yes, role-play, despite certain gods trying to force their opinion of what is an evil warrior on me) an evil warrior. They kill innocents. Obviously they shouldn't go without punishment. I fully expect to get turned in here and there, and for Elites to hunt and either kill me or arrest me. I have NO problem with that. What I have a problem with, is player intervention in a non-pkill mud, that gives them free reign to be utterly and totally annoying, and ruin the game for others.

If you don't want people to kill in town, make the damned mobs all 0 exp.

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moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Mon Oct 28, 2002 4:35 pm

I have a related question. Let's say my character is wanted in Leuthilspar. How in the nine hells would a human character near Waterdeep, out by Turning Point, figure this out? It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense from the realism angle.

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Postby Zoldren » Mon Oct 28, 2002 10:55 pm

some times you cant get wanted even if you try Image

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Postby Grungar » Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:03 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
some times you cant get wanted even if you try Image</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't I know it... Image

- Grungar "Oh, so my crime's not good enough for you, huh?" Forgefire
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Postby Gerad » Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:32 am

Upgrade waterdeep! Baldurs Gate is freaking massive, so should be waterdeep!

Long live the huge pointless sidetracking storylines!

-Gerad Image

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Postby Rausrh » Tue Oct 29, 2002 3:02 pm

The way I see it is this:

Bounty Hunter Bill is sitting on the courthouse steps counting his reward and braging to his friends about the so-called master assassian he just brought in. All of a sudden he hears a raucous, thats right a raucous. He hears the constible shout: 'Stop him! He's Escaping!!'

The doors of the courthouse burts open the the master assassian comes tearing down the steps, knocking over an old lady in the process. Bounty Hunter Bill curses as he takes a flying leap at the fleeing assassians legs. They tumble around in the dirt, struggling for supioriority.

When the dust settles, there lies the assassian, bundled up like a birthday present for the judge. 'Looks like I'm gettin' another reward huh?' gloats Bounty Hunter Bill. 'Maybe you should have waited for your first sentencing instead of escaping assassian, you've just made it worse. If you escape again, I'll just drag you back so you can pay for your crimes once and forall.'

The End


Mommy! I touched the hot pan just like you said not to and I got burned just like you said i would!

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Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Tue Oct 29, 2002 3:22 pm

What was the point of that post, Rausrh?

Was it an attempt to be sarcastic? To try and make some vague point that I missed?

As I see it, you didn't bother to read my initial post. I said I fully expected to die. I expected to get turned in. What I have an issue with, is some jackass that loves to get off on making others miserable. If I take your post correctly, you couldn't give a damn less, so long as they play the way you want them to. And that, I take issue with.

Of course, I could be wrong, and you were trying to make a joke.. But it sure didn't sound that way.

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Tesil2
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Postby Tesil2 » Tue Oct 29, 2002 3:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>As I see it, you didn't bother to read my initial post. I said I fully expected to die. I expected to get turned in. What I have an issue with, is some jackass that loves to get off on making others miserable. If I take your post correctly, you couldn't give a damn less, so long as they play the way you want them to. And that, I take issue with.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh...so they should play the way YOU want them too....I guess that's OK. Justice is part of the GAME...don't like it? Then quit playing.


[This message has been edited by Tesil2 (edited 10-29-2002).]
Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:56 pm

Hi Tesil,

Perhaps you didn't read it either. My post was an idea.

If you don't like ideas, don't read them.

As to your comment about quitting play; Perhaps you don't understand the concepts of gameplay discussion, ideas, and change.

In a nutshell, players that play a free game have been invited to give their input. They were given a forum (i.e. this bbs) to post their ideas. The gods then read and use the ideas that seem to make sense, and discard others. You see, they want people to continue to play this game. And they want folks to have fun.

Thus the point of ideas and change. If you like it the way it is, that's fine and great. I am happy you've found an outlet that gives you entertainment. This game also gives me entertainment, however there are certain things I disagree with, and rather than complain and insult the gods, I posted an idea in a public thread on a public forum.

If you disagree with my idea, I welcome your rebut to it, and would like to hear any thought out comments and disagreements you have on it.

P.S. - Rausrh, my jackass comment wasn't motioned towards you (but towards the person that made that particular day miserable for me). Thought it would have been obvious when I first wrote it, but I reread it, and it could be misinterpreted. Didn't mean it to sound rough, even if it did.

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Maedor
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Postby Maedor » Tue Oct 29, 2002 7:22 pm

Despite many good points raised by Malacar and numerous othewrs regarding justice, the admins don't seem to take notice. Maybe they do, but they don't post on the bbs that they are addressing the issue. In my opinion, the fact that admins don't respond to these threads gives the impression that they don't care what we think about their precious justice code.

I do think the admins care a lot about this game, and its players. The bbs is a great way for ideas for improvement to be shared, but it really sucks when no admin bothers to step up and at least address the issues being raised...specifically in regards to justice. Respond to constructive threads please.

Maed

PS-If Yayaril broke out of jail, he would either-
a) hide and sneak out so you didn't see him.
or
2) stab you in the back as he ran by.
or
c) all of the above.

too bad this isnt a pkill mud and you can't do jack to the jackass who gets off on turning you in every 10minutes.
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Postby Rausrh » Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:00 pm

Malacar,
No sarcasism was intended by my post. It was intended to be an amusing roleplaying story which would give an example of a person being tied up, turned in, escaping, and being tied up again. Because you wrote that you were a roleplayer, I thought it was a clever way to give an example of a situation where the news of your escape would not have to filter through the city.

I agree with you that there should be changes to Justice. Player intervention should be limited if not removed. However, you knew that by escaping after you were turned in you could be once more tracked, tied up, and turned back in. Do not complain to me about that.

Some people who play this game can be abnoxious, even mean at times. Things such as eq claiming, ignoring people, underhanded splits, and justice abuse are just a few of them. I cannot control these people's actions. They usually are just barely within the rules as well. Because I cannot control their actions, I try not to put myself in a situation where I recieve the short end of the stick. I do not kill where I will become wanted. I do not have a problem with being turned in. Perhaps you should follow my lead.

[This message has been edited by Rausrh (edited 10-29-2002).]
Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:23 pm

Point taken, and I stand corrected.

In that light... It was kinda funny. Image

However, I disagree that we should not do something because the gods refuse to make a change. I will continue to do it, until I can't bear it any longer.

I will also continue to keep posting these threads til a god bothers to give their input on it, and let me know that I am either being heard and it's being looked into, or to go jump in a cliff, this is the way it is, period. Image

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Maedor
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Postby Maedor » Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:32 pm

I bet Malacar's dscale robes that no admin responds in a meaningful manner to this thread in the next 10hrs...

They've ignored it for how many months? Why start now...
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:36 pm

Duly noted.
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Postby Maedor » Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kiaransalee:
Duly noted.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The bet was for a meaningful contribution to the topic at hand...But kia responding is one small step for admins. Some meaningful feedback from them, and we might have a giant leap for adminkind!

I crack myself up.
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:52 pm

Your request has been added to the queue.

Currently, the request line is busy, but your call has been logged and will be addressed in the order it was received. Your request/issue is currently number:

Five thousand, two hundred, thirty eight.

Please stay on the line and someone will be with you shortly.

-------
Yes, that was tongue firmly planted in cheek. However, this has been gone over before. As a general rule we don't reply to threads because our presence in them has a tendency to taint the ideas and give people the wrong ideas about the validity of them. Consequently, see other threads where the authors have claimed "I'm going to do X until they reply here!" and see how well they've fared. Helpful hint: none of us likes to work after being threatened.

We have a lot of work to do and very few people to do it. And if you want someone devoted to replying to every thread with their opinions, that's one less person that we can have doing the work.

In other words, be patient. Your ideas are read even if we don't reply to them.

You can give me Malacar's robes when I log in next.
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:54 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Maedor:
[B]
PS-If Yayaril broke out of jail, he would either-
a) hide and sneak out so you didn't see him.
or
2) stab you in the back as he ran by.
or
c) all of the above.
B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Silly Maedor- Yayaril doesn't commit crimes!


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-Yayaril
Maedor
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Postby Maedor » Tue Oct 29, 2002 10:10 pm

Thanks Kia. I think the pbase deserved 5minutes of your time to at least acknowledge an aspect of the game that many people feel needs adjustment. I know you are busy...but justice has received way more than it's fair share of criticism and suggestion...

You really do a good job Kia...
Maedor
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Postby Maedor » Tue Oct 29, 2002 10:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B>
Silly Maedor- Yayaril doesn't commit crimes!


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not that he admits to anyways...
Keran
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Postby Keran » Wed Oct 30, 2002 12:22 am

Live and die by the sword. Learn to live with the law, or learn to live as an outlaw. I prefer the latter. Despite the consequence, I will continue to slay the inhabitants of WD - we all know why. Relenting is not an option.

Toarn -!fear-
Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Wed Oct 30, 2002 12:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kiaransalee:
<B>Your request has been added to the queue.

Currently, the request line is busy, but your call has been logged and will be addressed in the order it was received. Your request/issue is currently number:

Five thousand, two hundred, thirty eight.

Please stay on the line and someone will be with you shortly.

-------
Yes, that was tongue firmly planted in cheek. However, this has been gone over before. As a general rule we don't reply to threads because our presence in them has a tendency to taint the ideas and give people the wrong ideas about the validity of them. Consequently, see other threads where the authors have claimed "I'm going to do X until they reply here!" and see how well they've fared. Helpful hint: none of us likes to work after being threatened.

We have a lot of work to do and very few people to do it. And if you want someone devoted to replying to every thread with their opinions, that's one less person that we can have doing the work.

In other words, be patient. Your ideas are read even if we don't reply to them.

You can give me Malacar's robes when I log in next.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I agree. However, just saying 'Ok, I've seen it.' or... 'Duly noted.' Is a step in the right direction. It's not committal, but it lets people know it's been seen.

Thank you Kia.

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Zoldren
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Postby Zoldren » Wed Oct 30, 2002 2:05 pm

I am curious, you say you roll play an evil warrior who slays people... ok.. and its ok for and elite to track/kill you because that ties into the justice and rp... well what if the person who tracks you down is also RPing a bounty hunter? is it not the same as if an rdf came an tied you up? after all a bounter hunter is doing the same thing... or are you just upset about people who turn people in w/o RP just to be a butt?

thanks, not trying to be smartass am just curious about above from your view point. being i dont play a goodie i dont see your aspect...

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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Oct 30, 2002 2:17 pm

I turn Toarn in every chance I get. He builds up a nice bounty from time to time. Course he's turned me in more than a few times too. *whistle*

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Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Wed Oct 30, 2002 2:18 pm

They can track me down and tie me up, and turn me in, and I could get executed(I never said elites only, mind you). I have a problem with that, but I can accept that as a fact of life. I consider it broken code, but that is a personal opinion.

What I can't abide is someone that tracks you down, after turning you in, ad infinitum. There just comes a time when it goes over a line. They can role-play a bounty hunter til they go blue in the face, and I can role-play an evil warrior. However, I should not be wanted again til I get reported for another crime as it pertains to that particular player.

As it stands, that player can just turn you in, wait for you to escape, and just turn you in again, no matter where you go. I can go to near splitshield, and they can still follow me to tie me up and drag me back. Where does it end?

I see a distinct issue with the justice system having player interaction, but that's not the gist of my initial post. My initial post only eludes to the repitition of one player turning me or anyone else in.

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Rausrh
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Postby Rausrh » Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:02 pm

"I should not be wanted again til I get reported for another crime..."

Wouldn't escaping constitute a crime?

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Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rausrh:
<B>"I should not be wanted again til I get reported for another crime..."

Wouldn't escaping constitute a crime?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but to the elites. The player would be eligible to nab me again in 24 real time minutes.

I'm not saying it's "realistic" per se. A lot of things in this game aren't.

Just looking for a medium level in between that accomodates people like me, and people that like to do bounty hunting to the extreme like I detailed above.

Trust me, if I could have it 'my way', I would have all PC interaction with justice removed.. Image

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thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Wed Oct 30, 2002 5:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
<B>I am curious, you say you roll play an evil warrior who slays people... ok.. and its ok for and elite to track/kill you because that ties into the justice and rp... well what if the person who tracks you down is also RPing a bounty hunter? is it not the same as if an rdf came an tied you up? after all a bounter hunter is doing the same thing... or are you just upset about people who turn people in w/o RP just to be a butt?

thanks, not trying to be smartass am just curious about above from your view point. being i dont play a goodie i dont see your aspect...

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can kill the elites who track you down. You cant kill the player who tracks you down, even though in a sense he is killing you. If you fail to escape you die, because of the players actions. But you can do nothing to defend yourself, so it gives the bounty hunter a rediculous adavantage over you.

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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Wed Oct 30, 2002 6:43 pm

how about activating pk between the victim and the dude w/ the rope? that'll make justice more interesting.

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Postby moritheil » Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:27 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
<B>I have a related question. Let's say my character is wanted in Leuthilspar. How in the nine hells would a human character near Waterdeep, out by Turning Point, figure this out? It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense from the realism angle.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

?

Still wondering.

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Postby Rausrh » Wed Oct 30, 2002 9:50 pm

"I have a related question. Let's say my character is wanted in Leuthilspar. How in the nine hells would a human character near Waterdeep, out by Turning Point, figure this out? It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense from the realism angle."

No, it dosen't make sense. An intreseting addition to the justice code would be Wanted Posters. A player who wanted to do some bounty hunting could go to the judge in a city and get (for a small fee) a wanted poster for a criminal. Players could only hunt those criminals whos wanted posters the have. The fee could deter people from being annoying, and having to go to the city judge to get them adds to realism.

Common places in town could have wanted posters posted (not takable). If a criminal walked into that room while a guard was there, the guard could have a chance of recognizing the criminal and attaching/KO/drag etc.

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Postby gordex » Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:21 am

I didn't read any of the above posts, but wanted to speak up about the topic. Can we just do away with justice code? What purpose does it serve? It personally pisses me off.

If you dont want certain mobs getting killed, just make them invulnerable to attack, much like shopkeepers.

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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dalar:
<B>how about activating pk between the victim and the dude w/ the rope? that'll make justice more interesting.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This would be....very cool Image

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