Mercenary or just good common sense...a cleric's cry for hel

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Myre
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Mercenary or just good common sense...a cleric\'s cry for he

Postby Myre » Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:51 pm

Okay...first off i'll apologize in advance for all of the people I will piss off with this post. I have to say I truely respect Todrael and the way he can completely think through an idea, then express it with both tact and direction....Frankly, i'm not that smart and certainly not that patient.

Please scroll down to the ------ if you don't want to read my bitching.

secondly i'm really looking for good feedback from CLERIC players mostly. When you post your feedback could you please list your level and your race...
i.e. Zajan 50 drow cleric.

Why does this matter... Because honestly, unless you've PLAYED a cleric...you sure as shit shouldn't be critisizing them.


okay background...
I've been told by several people on the evil side and the good side alike...that for a level 50 cleric my gear was trash. So for the past 3 months i've made a significant effort to try to upgrade my equipment to look less newbie.
I've made some leaps and bounds....after I hit level 50.. I finally got 2 amey rings...1 won in a bid..and 1 claimed from me leading brass once...I've gotten basilisk leggings (Thanks Verzul!) and starsilver plate (Thanks Jaznolg!). I've finished my falcon boots and a friend loaned me 2 darkstones and a sky-metal earring (THANKS PINK!)

So where is this going...

I achieved most of these items through some long hours and honestly by sacrificing family life and a $5,000 raise at work (yeah i know, stupid!!) and recently my forward progress has come to a screeeeeeeching halt..

Why?

because people won't help do certain things or because they are always doing them for their alts.. or because they need help doing this..or that..or the other thing...(translation something else for someone else is ALWAYS more important)

To compound this even further... I've talked to a 9 year long friend who recently took a break from playing a cleric...and a new friend who is a drow resser...then further talked to several retired ressers...some of which were tiamat killers (just to empasize depth).
-point -
As clerics in general (speaking from evil side mostly) if your not one of the 2 or 3 'chosen' people you are pretty much an after thought. Some of my friends and other ressers on the evil side have retired or have been flat out ripped to shreds by various duergar rogues through gsay for doing the best joib the can.

WTF!!! If we are so damn necessary to zone and so sought after to group, why do we take so much shit from mouthy people and no help from groups in return? Why should we feel the urge to retire our characters just to avoid being treated like crap.

Honestly, if i'm fed 1 more guilt trip because..
group-leader X tells you 'want to help me and my guild do an impossible quest that will take 17 hours for 1 item that is exactly 1 hit point better than what I already have'

you tell group-leader x 'sorry i have only 2 hours left till work'

group-leader X tells you 'aww c'mon man, don't make 15 people sit around just because you don't want to zone... your the only cleric on'

once again...WTF!! why is entertaining 15 people _MY_ problem? I have a RL obligation to work...I don't have the time to help...and frankly, besides helping a friend once in a while, the 17 hour investment does DICK ALL to help me in any way. The whole load of crap that if you help someone they'll remember and help you...is just that..a load of crap.. Done more things than I can count to help people as often as I have time...and ya know what...they still always have something more important to do when it comes time that I need a hand..

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start here if you don't want to read my bitching..
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My case and finally the point of this whole arguement...

is saying...

"i'll be happy to help you with zone X if it has one of the 9 items i need in it...or if it's helping people who helped me get one of the 9 items"

Is this:
a) just being a jackass
b) being a mercenary (working for items only)
c) making a buisness decision that if it doesn't help it's time to make people help.

d) some other form of answer that i'm too irritated to see.

Honestly, looking for feedback from other clerics here...i'm not sure if the treatment I have received from some players recently is because i'm a cleric, and they are unable to believe i need to do anything...or because i'm a hard headed fool.

I'm willing to attempt to change my perspective on things depending on the feedback from other clerics and non-flamers..It is entirely possible that my desire to retire my cleric is because i've ticked off so many people they don't want me around...


The items i need:
2 eldrich rings
2 hell pearls and 2 poison sacks
deep dragon amulet
amulet of sight
lavish shoes
fire plane eyepatch
starsilver sleeves
cloud giant orb

Yes i know that some of them are HARD items but looking at the list.. I can't say ANY of them are outside of the bounds of the groups i'm always in. Am I expecting to be handed these items? HELL NO. What I am saying is at what point should I have ANY say so in what zones we attempt to target.. Some will say "when you lead them". GOOD ANSWER...my response...i'm the only cleric on ...i want to do zone X....you want to do zone Y...don't give me shit if i don't want to do zone Y.
Anyways,
Welcoming myself to several blacklists...
Zajan


[This message has been edited by Myre (edited 10-31-2002).]
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Thu Oct 31, 2002 6:24 pm

wow you skipped a 5k raise for mud? shit u hsould have just paid me that much for the eq Image anyways. Yea you have every right to not do a zone. just remember when you need a CR or want to do tiamat, people might want to help/want you.

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Myre
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Postby Myre » Thu Oct 31, 2002 6:26 pm

I agree CRs >>>>>>> ALL
CRs are certainly a different ballpark regardless of if you like the person or not.
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Postby zipalodok » Thu Oct 31, 2002 6:32 pm

Zipalodok 50 dooger cleric

First to 50 and to get res this whipe, just look at me and ya see my res rules, nuff said about bein a hardend cleric.........

To get all the shit i got now thats pretty outdated took me around 70-80 playing days i say, none of it is really some long quest or anything. My playing time right now is Playing time: 91 days / 17 hours/ 56 minutes, note i havent sat down and zone zoned in about 2 months just play 30mins-hr a day about... and yea i'm a prick when i'm pissed, when shit doesnt go down to the line right. Now a days ya kinda lucky to get me into a zone group without having somebody i know pretty good getting me to go.
Well anywho i've group with zajan he dont leave slack for me, least nothin thats not understandable.. somethin i cant say for alot of newly clerics that are probaly somebodys alt thinkin its cake to play, then relize ya get blamed alot if ya aint top game, or get blamed for anothers error....
Now way i feel about EQ i think guy who has done that zone the most outta who needs it gets it.
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Postby Musi » Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:14 pm

Musi - lvl 43 Human Cleric

It seems to be that way for me. Either I get a really low lvl group, which is ok with me because I like helping people, or I'm an afterthought. I can't get ress or even level without help (that's nice for the people that say I should be able to lvl by myself, but when I con something as easy, and it kicks my @$$, I definitely can't tank something that will give me real exp.)

My eq sux. I hear that all the time, but it's hard to get better eq if
1) you can't get in a group that wants to help you in that regard (ex. they only want items for themselves, their alt, their friend who never plays, but they would play again if they had this)
2) you never get any $ from a group (seems to happen A LOT now. a group will break up and the looter will keep all the $) Today was the first time in a LONG time someone split (Thanks Khamik!)

The only 4 things I want as a cleric right now are...
1. ress (but to get all the eq before I reach 46 would be great)
2. planeshift
3. fly eq
4. tinkers bag

I consider a LOT of you friends. Unless I'm already grouped, exhausted, or I want to spend some time with my husband when he gets home, I will join a group when asked. I usually ask where just to see if there's a potential thing I need for ress. Doesn't mean I'll get it, but worth a try.

If this post upsets anyone and gets me blacklisted, oh well. I'm not getting much exp as is, and if you know about trying to lvl a cleric, you know what I'm talking about. It takes forever to lvl. I may edit this later, since I'm grouped and busy at the moment (not sure what we're doing yet).


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Musi "Desperate to get ress" {-Randgriur-} Waelcyrge Sororitas
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Postby cherzra » Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:25 pm

Hm from what I suspect, it's a lot easier leveling a cleric because no matter how you take it, you are always needed. No group past level 20 can effectively work without a cleric which means you are always in demand. If you want it tough, try playing the 5th ranger or 10th warrior on the same side who list...

As for being yelled at, well that's what many people do in frustration, and you should realize that most if it is just steam being let off after a spank. Over the past week I've run across two ressing clerics who won't zone anymore and this effectively stopped any zoning from going on at that moment. This in turn boils my blood, because as a leader I have nothing to do whatever fights you have with other people from zones last week. Don't forget that many people payed dearly to get ress, and to suddenly 'not feel like zoning' only adds 2 more to the pile of ressers that just quit of stopped playing.

As for equipment, it comes... I spent 2 years being a random level 40 warrior, barely went zoning, never got anything... now I have pretty much everything I could want. It comes, in due time, and a lot faster if you're a cleric than as a warrior I'll bet. Just look at donut who was a lvl 1 noob 2 months ago Image
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Postby Fura » Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:52 pm

Level 46 or something shaman, don't remember...

I don't play much these days, usually only log on when someone asks me to do so. I've not seen a group without a cleric in a long time. One of the most notable exceptions was taking on the guy south with all the caravan guards - and I was the only vitter. Let's just say I was unimpressed when the leader hassled me to get all the vits up, when at the time I only had four to pray at a time. I haven't forgotten the leader, even if I've forgotten pretty much everything else.

I seldom stay with a group past the zone they'd invited me into these days, usually because of RL concerns. Of course, I'm not often invited to join groups because the leaders don't know my abilities since they seldom see me, but that's the price I pay. I have been pressured to join a group I had wanted to avoid, and lost respect for that leader as well.

My situation is different from yours, however, because I'm just a shaman, completely disposable. As backup healer I've seen some clerics who don't seem to do as good a job as others, but are always invited along anyway. I'm guessing it's personal dynamics/friendships, etc.

About gear - The last thing I'd bid on, I told the leader I'd like it if no one else bid on it because it's for an alt. I got it. The thing before that I bid on because it was pretty - no one knew the stats, but when I found out what I could about it, I made sure to let the leader know so next time someone better suited can bid on it. Before that, I bid on a ring that someone in our group direly needed, telling the leader that I was bidding for that person. I don't bid on stuff for alts unless we go to second round, or I do it the way I said earlier. Just my philosophy - why would I want gear I can't use when someone else could use it?

I'm sorry you're having a hard time, luv. I hope this helps...
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Postby Musi » Thu Oct 31, 2002 8:14 pm

At least rangers and warriors can tank for themselves, but I'm not going to get into warrior vs. cleric.

If two ressers won't zone anymore, help those of us that do want ress to get it and the levels needed so we can go zoning.

I really want to get ress and be able to use it and zone before I have to go back to school. After that, I know I won't be on much, but will be as much as possible to help out. Maybe this means no one will help me get ress now. It just seems that the clerics that have ress are always asked first, while the rest of us waste away at 1w, making rations, or pressing corpses. I've tried to map sojourn, but I'm not good at it.

There's been several times that I've been asked to group, then someone in the group asks if I have ress (in tells), and when I say no, then I'm no longer wanted around.

Oh, well. Tis the life of a cleric I lead.


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Musi "Desperate to get ress" {-Randgriur-} Waelcyrge Sororitas
Baikalisan
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Postby Baikalisan » Thu Oct 31, 2002 8:15 pm

Baikalisan 50 Cleric Duergar

I understand being mad if a zone goes bad and the group spanks.

I understand being mad because ppl dont do their jobs, for whatever reason.

I understand wanting a peice of eq so bad you can taste it, and will do most anyting to try to obtain it.

I dont understand refusing to do a zone just because the piece of eq you happen to want or is on your wish list isnt there. No matter how many times you have done the zone before.

I dont understand refusing to help ppl aquire their items for whatever they are wanting just cause it doesnt benifit you.

I understand being impatient and feeling screwed cuz you have been to that zone 45 times and not gotten the item you wanted/needed.

I dont understand refusing to go for this reason alone.

I understand time constraints, so you cant go help.

I dont understand guilt trips cuz you cant go with a valid reason. Anything rl > mud.

I dont understand treating people badly because they dont bend to your way of thinking. Or because they are not what you are needing at that particular time.

Note all of these are started with the word I. You may not agree, or you may agree, that doesnt really matter. They are all my opinions, and my momma alwasy said Opinions are like assholes... Everybody has one.

Now, as for being mercenary or not... You have to do what is right for yourself. Not zoning unless the eq you need is there or whatver is your choice. What happens when you have it all tho? Right back to going everywhere happily? Or do you sit and wait for the next peice of eq you want to come along so you can jsut go in that group?

As for sacrificing family life.. Why? again rl >>>>> mud.

I agree with Zip about the fact that the person who is in group and needs it the most should get the item.. eq'ing alts is lame when somebody in the group actaully NEEDS the item for that character taht is in the group.

As for why clerics take so much crap...
To play a cleric, and continue to play a cleric for any ammount of time and actually enjoy it takes a certain type of person. If you are high strung and need to be at the top of things all the time chances are you will not play a cleric successfully for any length of time. If you sit back and look at the people (At least on the evil side) who play clerics as their main and actually enjoy it you'll notice they are the ppl who sit in group, do their jobs and are mostly quiet... They dont usually bitch or holler..

For me playing a cleric is what i enjoy the most out of this game because i love watching people interact, i love being needed in a zone, and not a person who can be easily discarded cause they already have 2 of that class. I WANT to be there healing you and helping to keep the group going.. I want to explore and learn about the game and things i can do to run myself in a more complete and helpful way.

i have more to say, but i think this post is long enough, maybe i'll write more later, now i gotta go trick or treat with the monsters and freeze my ass off... bleh!

btw, no hard feelings i hope come from this... again what i stated b4, they are opinions.

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Baikalisan Terrorforge- Valsharess Elg'Caress - Orbdrin D'oloth

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Postby Baikalisan » Thu Oct 31, 2002 8:18 pm

For the record i didnt retire my cleric.

I just need a few days off to nurse hurt feelings.

Sorry if you hate me for that. Something i need to do.

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Baikalisan Terrorforge- Valsharess Elg'Caress - Orbdrin D'oloth

Ellana tells you 'i WISH he was the energizer bunny. all i'd need to do is take out the batteries and duckpond him'
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Postby Tilandal » Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:04 pm

And people ask why play a ranger if the class sucks.

I've never caught flak for having to bail out on a group.

They dont blame me if I didnt rescue the mage in time.

If I miss a bash; hey thats life.

If I die, well what else can you expect?

Who else is gonna bid warbow when fireplane gets done?

Theres just something to be said for low expectations.

For everyone that plays a 'core' class like clerics or enchanters: More power to you but if you get fed up you can always roll a ranger.

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Postby Raiwen » Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:08 pm

Raiwen 32 Cleric (human)

I was a beta tester for soj3, and a 50 lvl cleric before wipe. There are allot of new zones which I have not done, and having been away from the mud for so long, I feel almost newbieish again.. which is cool.

I've always enjoyed playing a cleric. Though, I've been very lucky. I tend to be asked to group by the same people over and over again. These leaders, do end up looking out for my interests. Mik/Galzar, Kurkis, Drakkoth, Enth, Thengil, Mikar, and a bunch of others, I owe you allot! I guess I was protected in a way.. from the politics. This if anything would be my suggestion: build your relationships rather than your groups or equip.

RL>mud .. but I've never turned down a group just cause there wasn't anything in it for me. There's always something in it for me. People! I learn something from them. I either learn to not like them.. or I offer my help.. and hopefully my kharma. I never had the best equip in the game. Frankly, that's not why I played. I played because I had friends that played, and I met ppl that I enjoyed mudding with. My equip came to me rather than me clawing my way to get it.

In the next 10 levels I maybe singing a different tune, but it's alright. This is a game, and sometimes you have to get up from your chair, and walk outside (even for a few months). Ultimately you have to do what makes you happy. If you do this game, called a mud, so you can aquire all this "stuff" for your character, then that's what you need to do - Aquire more stuff. I've lost all my stuff 5 times. 4 times pre-wipe, the last was really devastating, and then the wipe.. so what.. you can always get it back. And if not.. then so what.. there will always be replacement stuff.. more uniq stuff..

Anyways. in short, I may not agree with what you're doing, as it's not my playing style. But I understand where you are coming from, and you must do what makes you happy.
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Postby Sargax » Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:26 pm

Ellana 50, pretty drow cleric

I started Sojourn with a wimpy troll warrior that Dezzex helped me roll up. Decided to roll up a cleric because I saw how there weren't many late night clerics around. If I'm the only cleric logged on, most likely, I will come along to zone but sometimes I just can't. This semester's a long one cause I'm taking more classes than before. If I'm on a time limit which I seem to be on lately cause of midterms and assignments, I'll tell the leader how much time I have. But once I start a zone, I always stay for the whole thing unless an emergency comes up in rl. Leaders usually understand if I really can't make it.

As for you not being one of 2 or 3 "chosen" people, I think that's not true. It's all about following a leader several times so they know you do your job well, and that you're dependable.

Equipment is an important part of zoning but it should never be a reason not to go cause you won't get it. I agree with Baikalisan's post. My cleric's eq isn't the greatest but it's not bad either. It suits me for now. Many a times I will go to a zone and not get anything as do a lot of people. It's hard splitting 5 pieces of eq between 15 people. But I'm a believer of if you go enough times, you'll get it.

Leader should get final say on which zone they want to lead because they'll be the ones leading and they're the ones who got the group together. If I needed an item from a zone, I'll ask if we can do it and if that zone can't be done today, the leader usually keeps me in mind and try it for next time.

Clerics do not make the group. They are but one factor. A group won't be possible without a chanter or a tank either. Being only cleric on is tough but try being the only enchanter in the group or being only tank around to rescue. A group is only possible if everyone's willing to give a bit to make the group work.

I'm one of the people who absolutely love playing my cleric. I tried other classes too but clericing is definately for me. I like helping people and being quake happy.

Ellana - Orbdrin D'oloth
Myre
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Postby Myre » Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:48 pm

I do respect the response from the people who have bothered to post so far. Thank-you.

let me clarify though that in 9 years here and in 50 levels as a cleric I have certainly tried the 'keep following the same leader' policy - it normally doesn't work for me...still get bypassed.

and i've heard, posted, and bought the t-shirt for the 'eq comes in time' policy..but frankly the only people who tend to say that are the people that have everything.

What would I do if i got the 9 items i need.? good question...honestly i'm sure there would be SOMETHING out there i'd work on....Point is...at what time do i put my foot down and stop helping everyone else with their 'something else' that's more important and make my own happiness on the mud a priority.

still confused but getting a lot of good input..

Zajan 50 drow clerik
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Postby Ambar » Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:52 pm

Karikhan lvl 34 or 35 duergar cleric :P

For me it's not about eq .. it's about the people in the group .. the eq is a fringe benefit ... I would never dream of not doing a zone cause there was nothing in it for me ... but that's just me ...

If you dont feel like zoning, I don't think people should put you down for it, but at the same time if you refuse and refuse and refuse, there is always someone new to take your place, and all of a sudden that person is the leaders' new cleric ...

I SO disagree with not zoning unless you get a piece of eq! As many people help us with spellquests I feel it is our duty to help everyone when they need it ... or as often as you can ....

Equipping alts?? Well I am kinda mixed here, let me just say i dont see anything wrong with equipping alts when another person in the group can't use it for their prime ... I play two characters mostly, my Ogre Shaman and my Drow Enchanter ... I personally prefer the drow, but the Ogre is my prime cause she is the guilded one ... and I have to swap eq back and forth all the time .. it is a HUGE pain in the ass ... now if i was equipping a many deep alt, there would be a problem .. but both my chars get equal playtime .....

To me .. Sojourn3 is all about groups and group dynamics .. people interaction ... and ME ME ME has no play here whatsoever .... the warrior that gets that astral *hat* you so desparately need for a certain enchanter quest could be the warrior that saves your ass in the very next zone you do ... the cleric you help get ress may be the best ever cleric in the whole world and he may save yer ass with a fheal in the very next zone you do

It's about helping people help YOU .... And we can't win every time .. As Cherzra says, it all comes in time .. who knew two years ago little Shalia Rhyvermist-Prowlingwolf Halfelf Druid would turn into Ambar Squish Squid Ogre Shaman ... I recall looking at another druid (Qualith) every day during two or three previous incarnations ... and drooling over his eq .. now that is ME .. people drool over most of MY eq ...

If you zone it .. it will come ...
Patience is a virtue ...

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (shoosh Turg)

by the way, Ryan, remind me to whoop your ass for not remembering that ....

ASS > BRASS (inside joke)

RL > ALL (truer words were never spoken)

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Postby Ambar » Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:55 pm

I should really stop using ........

But i dont want to

so there Image

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Myre
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Postby Myre » Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:12 pm

I love the people who all say they aren't in it for the eq...


course 9 out of 10 are wearing better gear than myself and some others that i've talked to...

so they aren't in it for the eq because by some means they already have it...point taken..and filed with the 'text book answer' advice

for those that take this post as me saying i'm only in it for the eq...well frankly then I can't consider you friends enough or you would have been around me enough to realize while YES i'm ambitious in my persuits...i'm hardly antisocial...so if you really think i'm that shallow i'll re-evaulate where I stand in regards to certain people.

[This message has been edited by Myre (edited 10-31-2002).]
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Postby Daz » Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:39 pm

I just want to say that a lot of you seem to be misreading Zajan's post here. He does not say that he won't zone if there is nothing in it for him, he is trying to say that he is tired and frustrated of people using him for help, but then not doing the same for him. I know for a fact Zajan does things for people when there is nothing in it for him, those are not the things he seems bothered by.

Ex.
Zajan tells player X 'you have a minute to help me do this zone that has an item I need?'
player X tells Zajan 'sorry, I am working on finding rare for my alt's offhand eq.'
2 hrs later.
player X tells Zajan 'hey, consent for labby, I need poison sac'
Zajan tells player X 'sorry can't - trying to get item i need'
player X tells Zajan 'we need cleric, wtf is your problem?'
----
This is (from what I read, i think?) the sort of situation that bothers Zajan. I
know the feeling, and it is very frustrating at times.
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Postby Ashemiem » Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:43 pm

Level 47 (frequently 46) Grey Cleric

Refusing to go to a zone because it doesn't have a piece of equipment that you want is ridiculous. As somebody (somebodies?) has said in this post, the equipment comes with playing. Nobody has heard me say "I'll do X zone if you promise to do MD and get me some starsilver plate". Putting in-game conditions on joining a group is dumb.

That said, something I came to accept long time ago is this. There are lots of people who are looking out for themselves first and foremost. People who don't care if they're climbing over somebody's back to get to their objectives sooner. There are people who will be cruel, thoughtless, and just plain dumb. And there's crap-all that you can do about them, except to go on playing, enjoy the game and when rewards come your way, you'll appreciate them all the more. Image

If somebody gives you shit, deal with it however you want. Always remember clerics are a valuable commodity, and if somebody really wants to lose out on heals/realms/resses from you that's their problem, not yours.

Ashemiem Autumnmoon

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Postby Sargax » Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:52 pm

I don't have everything in terms of eq. In fact, the eq I wear look like yours Zaj except for a few minor differences.
But in terms of friends and spending time with people I like, that is exactly what this game is to me. Like Touk said in another post, I view the game as this big chat room, just with more socials and prettier colors. Maybe it's just because i'm a girl. Gotta love flirting with the guys, right Amb?

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Postby rylan » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:13 pm

Level 50 human cleric here.. been around since waaay back pre soj1. Personally I play the class because its a good challange, because I have to pay attention pretty much at all times, and I can make a huge differance in groups and stuff. Plus I like helping people out.

Anyway, from the goodie side I haven't really had anyone yell at me or anything because I had to log for some reason.. people have been pretty good about it. I'm pretty laid back as my character, so I don't take stuff personal in groups.

In my opinion some of the stuff on your list like eldritch rings, stuff from ribcage, and fire plane should be zones that your groups do.. TF for eldritch is usually a decent zone run for people with a couple hours.. ribcage should be a piece of cake, and fireplane I just think is fun. I'm not sure how group structure works on the evil side.. but I'm used to getting people together, then deciding what zones to do.. so if ya wanna do something I'd say speak up and suggest swinging through ribcage, or going to do TF, or hitting fireplane after brass etc. If theres a particular zone someone wants to do for something, we usually say ok and lets go, tho some people might whine a little.. hehehe

Dunno what else to tell ya, since it sounds like the grouping situation is pretty differant on my side than on evils. I go to zones a lot where I don't need anything.. in fact where most people don't need the stuff, cuz its fun and something to do.

[This message has been edited by rylan (edited 10-31-2002).]
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Postby Vahok » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:25 pm

My pointless two cents...

First, I'm not a cleric. Second, I think my eq is alright. O.K. here's my point. I find I'm usually doing zones with no eq/exp benefits to me as well. But, I figure these things....people do hopefully notice my helpful nature, and hopefully will help me in the future. If not, oh well. Hopefully I had fun doing the zone for player X. I guess I'm saying is do what makes you happy. If was still decked out in newbie eq, would I care? Not really I'd suppose. And does everyone like me and respect my opinion/eq/knowledge? I'm banking on no, but again, do I care?

Mind you, I am going to agree with some others. Evil seem to have a different set of zoning problems than goodies do. Boil it down to this .... this is just a game. Have fun with the game. Rewards do come to you eventually.


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Postby Wobb » Fri Nov 01, 2002 1:19 am

Vurad 49 Dwarf Cleric (Toril)

The reason I start with this line is because I know what its like to play a cleric, and I mean with some of the best and fastest in the game (doing Tiamat etc) In fact, my true love for the game is the cleric class.

However, you couldn't pay me to roll up a cleric with the Resu quest the way it is, its too hard, and I wouldn't put in the energy. In my opinion it was the worst thing that has happened to the mud. It completely dissolved my desire to play a cleric, and like I said, its my favorite class. (I know my opinion is harsh but, there it is)

That being said, this is a trend for clerics, they play and they commonly get burnt-out because so much is asked of them. This especially hurts the people that put in the blood, sweat and tears helping a cleric get resu. Did Jerthalenkor ever get resu? Just curious.

Anyways, I also happen to know quite a bit of the story being one of Zajan's guildmates. Lately, unless you lead something yourself, you are out helping other people get what they want. I'm glad to see Turg has turned this around and even Yssilk (although I think taking bids for your own guild for people who decided not to bid is a serious TWINK MOVE), it's never going to amount to you getting 2 eldritches or some of the other stuff on your list. Well, certainly not in the near future.

EQ drives the people here. I don't think you are being selfish if you turn down a group because there is nothing from the zone you want. Yes it sucks to a be a leader and having people say "no sorry I don't want to come because I've done that a million times, or I don't need the eq", its happened to me more than once (as a leader).

So what am I rambling about? Do what you want and do what makes you happy. If you want the big eq, then talk to a leader who can get it for you and tell them, "Hey look, I'm tired of jacking around, one of these days lets go get me an eldritch, it will make me a lot more likely to come and help you with your next big goal"

Bottom line, open and honest is good. If you tell someone that, they can relate, because they want good stuff too.

Boredom drives the search.
The search fuels the mind.
The mind lusts for acquisition.
The acquisitions become faded.
Fading leads to boredom.

Vicious cycle.


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Wobb
"If you ever need a quick pick-me-up, just stick my balls in your mouth." --Chef, South Park
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Postby Fripple » Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:51 am

Gnome 50 Enchanter. Noob.

This is exactly what goes on with Fripple. What did I do? I started saying no to everything outside of full assoc. groups, close friends, and crs. I banned certain zones period as Fripple. I have the lowest hps of any lvl 50 in game I betcha for doing it. Does it make me happier and willing to come back when I can stick to those guns, yes. Figure out when you have fun and when you don't. Set rules around those parameters. Everyone has their own boundaries for "fun." If you think anyone else is going to have a hard time falling asleep that night, because they pissed you off, you are mistaken.

I have had the "you're the only scaler on, don't screw over a whole group" line too many times to care. RL > Mud only works when its in their favor. I can't even begin expressing the outrage I have felt for doing certain zones as the only chanter only to get nothing for doing it cause some meleer bid caster eq for an alt. Thus, learn to avoid those groups and people. If you can't stand soloing, and can't stand the groups, quit. You cannot change people. Relationship counselors who have never heard of Soj3 should agree. RL is always greater then mud. If you have to leave a corpse equiped in a zone because of RL... you should do it without a worry (see below).

I especially love being forced to goto a zone when I have 2 hrs, and the zone takes 2.15 and since I was gone for the last 15 mins I get no bid. That really makes me happy. Thanks leaders. Keep a list and logs of the cases that bother you. If the zone is purely for some quest, I think it is fair to ask the person to put up a decent item to bid off for the rest of the group. If they want the help, they should be able to chunk up a decent item to get that +1 hp.

Eq is a stupid reason to mud, but it makes me gag and my blood boil when people bid items they have multiples of and call it trash, and laugh about having so many in their bags. People are generally not worth the energy. Most the people out there are hypocrites. Pick your friends carefully.

Give up on eq. Give up on eq.

As for - "what about when you need a cr?" ... I have -needed- a cr twice... both times I was ready to lose corpse and move on. It's surprisingly easy to restart, content with the world, when the biggest item to replace is the 250 page spellbook. Own nothing that you care more about then your enjoyment. Friendships are quested, so you don't leave on corpses.

As for needing help on quests. I routinely turn down help. Yeah it slows down the process. I don't get people to walk me through getting an avenger, ice bears, dscale gaunts, etc. like some people. If you have a rush to get through quests, accept that you might be unhappy ever working on a quest or selling your soul to become a lackey. It is no ones responsibility to help you with a quest. I could have cared less for getting dscales which is why I was 50 when I got it. Takes time to do it yourself. If you can't have pride in what you do and what you achieve, are you playing just to be "better than thou?" Keep in mind ress is a curse.

Hope this helps someone. If this sounds bitter. Probably is. I don't particularly want responses.


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Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
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Postby Maedor » Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:51 am

Maedor 50 hooman invoker (deceased)
Olit 46 hooman necro (deceased)

Any cleric who can't find xp should be shot. From my experience, clerics level far faster than any mage. When i played my invoker, I took a level 36 or larger cleric to smoke and did 2person xp. We ripped shit down. Airs smokes bvaaka heluva. All of the smoke mobs died with 2 people. We did fast xp that way. If you don't have a 46+invoker, grab a 36+invoker and a stoner and do 3person smoke. Either way, you will level so damn fast Image

Clerics do take shit, and I think it's total crap that they do. Quite often they take the flak for the shaman not ghealing, the chanter not buffing, the tanks not rescuing, or the rangers trying to do something.

I do find it funny how the people who have everything say it isnt about the eq. It's like saying life isn't about money. Quite honestly, it shouldn't be, but that's just how it is; you need a certain amount of money to survive. Eq is the same way. When you die in zones in .5seconds cause you have 237 hp, the game is less fun. When I made my first jot run without dying, I was estatic. EQ does matter...to some extent...regardless of what people say.

So basically, I don't know what I'm saying. But I *think* I meant to say that clerics -a. level pretty easy
b. take undeserved shit

and that eq is -
a. a necessary evil
b. once you get a certain amount of eq, it begins to matter less

It is totally uncool if -
a. you don't join a group cause it has no eq in it for you
b. you do a zone 200million times and a guild hands each of its members the 1 piece you go every time to get and you never get it
c. when you help people and they don't help you
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Postby gordex » Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:45 am

Gordex - 50 Druid

Here is my take on things.

As for people talking shit about your eq, what do you care what they think? It is, however, important that you, the cleric, stay alive, and that is a GROUP effort!

From the posts I have seen since the beginning of this wipe, it seems the evils can be pretty bad assholes, more-so than the goodie side (although we DEFINITELY have them). I think that comes from having fewer players on the evil side, so the competition factor is greater.

Also, it seems that some people have been spoiled by having kick ass clerics that can play 16 hours a day, so they are good through repitition and are always around.

I ask of you, 'why do you play'? What do you get out of playing this game? Is it for the glory to say 'I got something that you don't'?

From the list I saw, you don't NEED those items, you WANT them. A few years ago I used to play for the eq, then politics took over and I decided to take a break. When I came back, I noticed people missed me, and my whole perspective changed.

If the group leader gives you shit for taking care of rl obligations first, then he is an asshole, and you can bet that he will not be your friend in the future, even if you help him out now.

As far as your multiple choice question. I vote B. Due to the politics of this game, sometimes you have to put your foot down, however, it can get you into trouble. So you have to decide, what is best for you in the long run.

I agree with Touk's principle's and any class can use them. Image

In my personal experience, I have found that the quickest way to get the eq you want, is to lead it. You might be surprised how many people show up when you say 'I'm leading zone X for the first time, wanna come help me smite?'

Ultimately, do what makes you happy. If being a cleric is a chore more than it is fun, then don't play that class. Doing the dishes, taking out the trash, etc. are chores, not barrels of fun.

My 10 cents. Image

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Gordex - Gordex Travel Agency
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Postby Uzzel » Fri Nov 01, 2002 4:18 pm

I just wanna say I think the silly short skinny detoxicated dwarf said it all.

Uzzel
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Postby zipalodok » Fri Nov 01, 2002 5:04 pm

i said who has done the zone the most outta who needs the item should get it... just cuzz a guy is a cleric lvl 50 doesnt mean he should get it over a lvl 41 cleric, which one has done that zone the most trying to get it should....and screw your goodie ways of bidding unless its a brand new zone or one thats never done.... i for one loot, i say screw you leader i loot corpses for coins... aint a damn thing someone can do to me in this game to affect me, if i'm zoning i'm helping out :P... and goodie leaders who came to the darkside relize this :P... besides battlefield 1942 is just to forkin phat, i feel playing mud on my pc gaming rig is a waste of my rig, i play when i'm mass downloading or preparing my illegal habbit which should be sold in stores in 2005. but otherwise i'm mainly on to chat, do 1 mob maybe and to res those who dont forkin spam me... So any way yea cherzra best thing about cleric is you get groups pretty easy, dont know about goodie side...

---Zipalodok your cleric tease every morning, dont ya love me :P
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Postby Mikayla » Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:46 pm

i love these threads, people bitch when they cannot get thier way, i cannot count the number of times people asked me to help them with something, then you help them and then you ask them for help they like say no, which tells me which ones are greedy selfish buttmunches, oh i know all who are, i know who i can and cannot trust, all i can say is if you take offense to this post, then you better look in a mirror becuase you are one, as for the rest, there are some friends i would do anything for on this mud, and they know who they are, i like doing zones and stuff and have fun doing them, but there is moreto this game then eq, now gettign eq is nice sometimes, but anyone who knows me, i dont win alot so i have to do zones 10+ times usually to win, cuz i always see greedy people needing things for thier alts, when mains need it, and that bites me in the ass more then anything, and all you who get mad, be mad at this post, but i am old school, real old school, been here since the dawn of time and will be here till the day miax closes the mud down forever, and that day will be a very sad day for me, is this a flame, take it how you want, i dont care anymore, i am here for me true friends and they know who they are Image

would you like fries with this post
have a nice day and thank you reading

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Her Royal Bitchness Eye Aeturnum
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Postby Branthur » Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:50 pm

Branthur: 39 Dwarven Cleric, 50 on Toril

Same boat with ya Raiwen..so must stuff added since I was actually zoning level, and been so long that the few groups that I've gotten in on I've been asking how to do the zone..even Vault. So used to room silence..ah well.

Anyway, throw in my 2 coppers here. I can understand about not getting any help with things, even when you've been helping everybody else with whatever..I'm just glad that I don't care. I'm just whipping boy for abuse as far as that goes. Heck, on Toril I never got Planeshift, mainly because I really didn't care. As long as I lived as much as everybody else through zones, Happy Dwarf. This time around, I'm just a bit worried about Rez Quest, but not much..yet. Image

Bah..help people when you can. If you can't (as has been said many times RL >>>>> MUD), that's their tough luck. As far as eq goes, and this is just from me..nice eq is nice of course, but as long as you're having fun. *shrug* While in zone, take it serious, while not, it's a game. Have fun. *nod me*

Branthur

[This message has been edited by Branthur (edited 11-01-2002).]
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Postby Ambar » Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:50 pm

hi5 Ellana :P

yep the flirting is the fun Image

specially when we are still a minority Image

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Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
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Postby Myre » Sat Nov 02, 2002 6:37 am

Once again i'd like to thank those that e-mailed me or posted here with sound advice. It has not fallen on deaf ears and I thank you for the input!

I want to thank someone who didn't post a reply...but someone I respected from Soj1...Mamoru..wherever you are....Thank you for the 2 tit ring and spell book philosophy of jot...I really need to refocus on this Image

And a huge thank you to my mentor and frankly the best cleric this mud has ever seen. Thanks for the e-mail! (out of respect they wish not to be named but they know damn well who they are
Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:51 am

Well I'm dismayed mostly by how much politics get into an otherwise EXTREMELY enjoyable game.

I think people spend WAY too much time milling around the fountain (with a whole RANGE of reasons I personally believe are so much BS and ultimately can only degrade the fun factor for everybody, ESPECIALLY n00bs) instead of going out there and zoning, which is what I live for and so rarely get to do these days.

Many people tend to be whiny/bossy, high-strung, over emotional basket cases who often simply cannot take a joke. Not all of em, not even most of em, but enough of em to make mudding feel like Thanksgiving with the inlaws and their attourneys. BLEH!

When peeps get on my nerve, I take the best advice ive read so far on this thread. Ignore the bullshit. Dont talk so much to mental dweebs, but do yur job, cast yur spells, rescue EVERYONE, and ZONE ZONE ZONE.

In the end, if the eq doesnt 'come' to you, friends most certaintly will. Ive made enough now, I hope we can start a guild that outlaws both the BS and the BS reactions that it spawns. (serious, a guild with a charter of anti-BS laws isnt a bad idea)

Anyhow, we all lose our nerve some days. I have. But quitting isnt in my list of ways to make things better.

I wont to say before I end this thread, that in NO way was I pointing a finger at any person OR organisation. I have fun with nearly ALL the evils, and I dont want people holding grudges on me, cuz I certaintly dont hold grudges back. I just wanna keep having fun and laughs...
Grorrak Krak Smakk, Slathering Troll Idiot
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Postby Gerad » Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:56 am

I'll never play an evil as long as the its so cliqueish and rude like that.

You guys treat each other so mean sometimes and its always on the bbs!

Sigh, be nice!

Geard Image

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Postby Deltin » Sat Nov 02, 2002 3:09 pm

Level 49 and on rare occasions level 50 Cleric Grey Elf

Some of you have run into some problems that I haven't and it's difficult to tell why. When I'm asked to zone either I say yes or no and that's that, I don't recall ever really being begged or bitched at for saying no. I think it maybe cause people know me fairly well and if I say no it's what I really mean and have a reason for it. I never feel obligated to zone especially if I'm just not in the mood for a particular zone or don't have the time. I never feel guilty for failed resses or having to leave because hey that's life. People for the most part know I try my best and don't tolerate certain things but that's just me.

A while back people where asking me to help kill the white dragon which I did but then it seemed to be the same people all the time and the scales where claimed all the time. So pretty much if someone wants "help with a mob" I will if it isn't one they kill all the time and keep the stuff. People can claim all the gear they want doesn't mean anyone has to help them.

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So whad are we gonna do tonight Brain? Same thing we do everynight Pinky, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
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Postby thanuk » Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:00 pm

I am a cleric abuser.
I will freely admit this. I tear on clerics all the time, yell at them, bitch and complain and whine at them as often as possible. Why? Because clerics are such fun people to annoy Image There is no greater joy in the mud than repeatedly asking a cleric for a ress, even after they had already told you they would do it. Except to wait until they do ress you, revoke consent at the last minute, and then make them ress you again after it fails. Why would anyone do this? because its great fun Image clerics=my bishes! Dont get me wrong, i dont do this to every cleric, just the ones i consider good friends. So if you see me harassing you, take it as a sign of friendship. Making your life miserable makes the game more fun for me...those who know this to be true also find an even greater joy in making MY life miserable...
So if someones gettin on your case busting your chops and getting all mad, just pretend he is your friend. You know that friend who loves to get you in trouble, and finds it infinitely funny to get you all riled up over nothing? Treat the person like that friend. You will find that they either get a sense of humor, or that eventually, they will begin to absolutely FLIP OUT and get all bent out of shape, which is extremely funny. So if someone starts harassing you and bawling you out over something that happens in a zone, dont get mad, get even. Talk more better shit than they do, forget to vit them, let them die, and then revive them instead of ress "oops wrong macro sorry" Get in touch with your masculine side, and start being mean because its funny.
Thanuk 50 warrior soon to be 40 warrior after all the revives im gonna get after this post.


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Thanuk Pantherclaw
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Postby Valke » Sat Nov 02, 2002 10:48 pm

Grp, level 50, heals fast as hell!

Grorrak, you rock! I would love to see no bullshit, but in some ways it keeps people interested!! and too, it will never leave.

My personal opinion::::::::::::
I dont know clerics that well, but ill learn! I can see alot of valid points about wanting to get EQ. BUT! what I dont understand is that if you people feel like your helping others and not getting anything in return! try not to expect anything so you wont be let down. I feel if you are truly gonna help a person than nothing should be expected, if you expect something then you are maiking an investment. Now I have shit EQ, and yes I want better EQ. but peeps say it will come, and it will im sure of it.

Grorrak! give me your EQ.

Zajan Zajan! i think you should make even more of an attempt at zoning! I think if you constantly zone, you ll get alot more stuff. Or get shit to trade for stuff!
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Postby Gormal » Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:52 am

[50 Cle] Kildran T'sarith -Redeemer- Wanderlust Excelsium (Human)
[47 Cle] Kaln (Dwarf)

Firstly this thread in itself makes me not want to group with you simply to avoid a headache. It doesnt matter what class you play. Evils have a cleric problem just as goodies have an enchanter problem. I think YOUR problem is either
a) giving a fuck about what other people think
b) lack of booze
c) lack of a real reason to play this game

to hell with eq, to hell with becoming so elite you are revered by all, to hell with 10000 day playtimes. Why not play to have fun? If evils in general are treating you badly try rolling a goodie. If you don't like your class roll another. If people give you crap because your eq isnt elite then insult them for their bassie pants or vermillion sleeves being so damn ugly that they should be shot by the lack of style police.

If the game ever pisses you off just log. Who cares really?

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Gormal Stoneforge -Hammerstrike-

"Forward Mithrilguard!"
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Postby Disoputlip » Sun Nov 03, 2002 11:50 am

Just wanna comment on 1 thing.

It is very rare I get the:
----
group-leader X tells you 'aww c'mon man, don't make 15 people sit around just because you don't want to zone... your the only cleric on'
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But when I do then I log just to annoy. Cuz only kids/teenagers normally beg like that.

/Disoputlip (48 CLE)
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Postby Maedor » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:37 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mikayla:
<B>i love these threads, people bitch when they cannot get thier way, i cannot count the number of times people asked me to help them with something, then you help them and then you ask them for help they like say no, which tells me which ones are greedy selfish buttmunches, oh i know all who are, i know who i can and cannot trust, all i can say is if you take offense to this post, then you better look in a mirror becuase you are one, as for the rest, there are some friends i would do anything for on this mud, and they know who they are, i like doing zones and stuff and have fun doing them, but there is moreto this game then eq, now gettign eq is nice sometimes, but anyone who knows me, i dont win alot so i have to do zones 10+ times usually to win, cuz i always see greedy people needing things for thier alts, when mains need it, and that bites me in the ass more then anything, and all you who get mad, be mad at this post, but i am old school, real old school, been here since the dawn of time and will be here till the day miax closes the mud down forever, and that day will be a very sad day for me, is this a flame, take it how you want, i dont care anymore, i am here for me true friends and they know who they are Image

would you like fries with this post
have a nice day and thank you reading

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holy crap. that is the longest sentence i've ever read!

Props!
Maed
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Postby Maedor » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:39 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Myre:
<B>
And a huge thank you to my mentor and frankly the best cleric this mud has ever seen. Thanks for the e-mail! (out of respect they wish not to be named but they know damn well who they are</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Best cleric = glorishan/ebgar

Worst cleric = Kaln (he managed to get me killed doing freakign smoke xp...a true feat)

When are you gonna be in town jake?

Maed
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Postby Maedor » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:40 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B>I am a cleric abuser.
I will freely admit this. I tear on clerics all the time, yell at them, bitch and complain and whine at them as often as possible. Why? Because clerics are such fun people to annoy Image There is no greater joy in the mud than repeatedly asking a cleric for a ress, even after they had already told you they would do it. Except to wait until they do ress you, revoke consent at the last minute, and then make them ress you again after it fails. Why would anyone do this? because its great fun Image clerics=my bishes! Dont get me wrong, i dont do this to every cleric, just the ones i consider good friends. So if you see me harassing you, take it as a sign of friendship. Making your life miserable makes the game more fun for me...those who know this to be true also find an even greater joy in making MY life miserable...
So if someones gettin on your case busting your chops and getting all mad, just pretend he is your friend. You know that friend who loves to get you in trouble, and finds it infinitely funny to get you all riled up over nothing? Treat the person like that friend. You will find that they either get a sense of humor, or that eventually, they will begin to absolutely FLIP OUT and get all bent out of shape, which is extremely funny. So if someone starts harassing you and bawling you out over something that happens in a zone, dont get mad, get even. Talk more better shit than they do, forget to vit them, let them die, and then revive them instead of ress "oops wrong macro sorry" Get in touch with your masculine side, and start being mean because its funny.
Thanuk 50 warrior soon to be 40 warrior after all the revives im gonna get after this post.


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nuk-yer my idol. Image

Maed
cherzra
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Location: Holland

Postby cherzra » Mon Nov 04, 2002 8:43 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Disoputlip:
<B>
----
group-leader X tells you 'aww c'mon man, don't make 15 people sit around just because you don't want to zone... your the only cleric on'
----
But when I do then I log just to annoy. Cuz only kids/teenagers normally beg like that.

/Disoputlip (48 CLE)</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe you're forgetting that these are also the people YOU depend on to lead your zones for you, kid or not, and maybe you should try leading regularly to see what a SHIT ass ungrateful job it is trying to even get groups together. Frankly, if you've only been on the 'consent, follow' side of the fence you have no idea what you're talking about.
sok
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Postby sok » Thu Nov 07, 2002 3:02 am

Uzzel you still play? hey are you and Sslarris one and the same? it's been so long.

to stay on topic, cleric rocks.
old depok
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Postby old depok » Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:04 pm

Depok - level 48 Shaman
Pibel Level 40 Rogue

There are plenty of times that I do a zone when I don't need the EQ and the chances of death are great (mori Vault anyone?). I give my bid away or abstain or bid on something small for an alt.

There are many times when I log on and someone sends me a tell asking if I can help with this or that which will be of no benefit to me.

And I do these things because I enjoy helping people and I know that they will help me when I need it (as I really found out with the Ancestral Shield quest. THANK YOU ALL)

What I have found as a result is that when I log on I frequently have multiple zone offers within 5 minutes.

Now, I am a member of a great guild with lots of zone leaders so that is part of it. But the other part (I hope) is that I do a good job with my class (99% of the time shaman), have fun doing whatever we are doing, and generally am a good natured person.

As Rylan says, many times I am asked into a group that has yet to decide what they are going to do. Or, more often, we finish one zone and then say ok now what? I am not shy with my suggestions but if people don't want to do roots so I have a shot at the belt I am fine with that. My turn will come (still can't believe I lost that last bid).

I need a lot of gear yet (still have Blued gear for legs and sleeves!) but I am in no hurry. Having great gear is not going to make the difference in a zone and is not what gets you invited along into groups.

As far as not doing a zone because you don't have a cleric or an enchanter, I will tell you that some of the most fun I have had is trying to do a zone without those classes.

Give it a try. It can be done. It is fun!

Depok
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:41 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by old depok:
<B>Depok - level 48 Shaman
Pibel Level 40 Rogue

There are plenty of times that I do a zone when I don't need the EQ and the chances of death are great (mori Vault anyone?). I give my bid away or abstain or bid on something small for an alt.

Give it a try. It can be done. It is fun!

Depok </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I give props to Depok for often giving out his bids to the less fortunate. Rock on!

PS - oh, and for being willing to MoriSpank as well. Can't forget that Image

------------------
You tell Ushug 'err... spankmistress??'
Ushug tells you 'you can't help it, I've always thought of mori as a chick'
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Nov 07, 2002 3:02 pm

And incidentally... we all love Depok, he's a real asset to the guild, he's a pleasure to be around, he's considerate and thoughtful. Being likeable really has its advantages sometimes. More people should give it a try.
Fripple
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Postby Fripple » Thu Feb 06, 2003 3:29 pm

I always liked this group of messages.

Bump I guess.
Fripple Kiara [b:]- Stone Heart -[/b:]
amolol
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Postby amolol » Mon Feb 10, 2003 7:26 am

though i do not play a cleric or any char over 37 i do have a verry good concept of thigs...in my opinion if they dont want to help you do your thing but instead demand that you hel;p them do yours then when your done heloping them they leave you for dead...**** 'em people need to learn to give not just take...have fun

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