Refusing me = I refuse you

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Jegzed
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Refusing me = I refuse you

Postby Jegzed » Fri Nov 01, 2002 5:46 pm

Most of the time I spend on the mud, I seem to idle, waiting for a cleric to log on so I can play.

Thats why it is SOO annoying when clerics are online and don't want to zone cause of some misc reason. Of course RL is more important, but if you just dont want to zone cause person X leads, or person Y is in the group, or cause they dont like zone Z or have all items from it.


I've had it...

#gag is a nice command in zmud.



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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Fri Nov 01, 2002 5:58 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B>Of course RL is more important, but if you just dont want to zone cause person X leads, or person Y is in the group, or cause they dont like zone Z or have all items from it.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can fully understand the first item on the list, and just because you like X leader, doesn't mean they have to. Why should they sacrifice their fun for you?

Ditto with second item. If you like Y person, doesn't mean they do, too.

The last two reasons are bogus. I don't like a lot of zones on here. There is only 1 I think that I refuse to do, unless I am with a certain leader. Otherwise, it's fair game. I figure some people have fun there, and they will suck it up for a zone I like. And the EQ? Please. If you're zoning just for the equipment, there's massive reasons there alone why you should be gagged.

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cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:33 pm

Because we usually only have 1 cleric on, evils only have 1 group going at a time, and we don't have the option to zone 10x a day like goodies? When they don't want to come for lousy issues such as X being in the group, it hurts everyone else online. Evils != goods when it comes to opportunities for zonage.
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Postby Ambar » Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:48 pm

Another point I agree on .. not zoning because person X is in the group

that grates me HARD

you don't always like everyone, thats a fact of humanity .. but dang dont talk to them, ignore them, don't just NOT zone cause they are in the group

Ambar's 2 copper
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Postby Gindipple » Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:54 am

Simple solution here.
Discuss amongst heavily online evils:
Who would be best to roll up a cleric?
Then have that person switch prime to a cleric and as a team help them level up. Viola!


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Postby Malacar » Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:57 am

So I am supposed to not voice my opinion on this when evils constantly stick their heads with evil points of view in my threads? Image

That's not sarcastic, it's an honest question, so really think about it before you flame me on it.

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Postby rylan » Sat Nov 02, 2002 2:35 am

Whats a decent class for evil cleric? I was thinking of rolling one.
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Postby Grungar » Sat Nov 02, 2002 4:03 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rylan:
Whats a decent class for evil cleric? I was thinking of rolling one.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Duergar! Woo, dwarves! Woo, dark dwarves!

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Postby Daz » Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:23 am

He said class, NOT race silly.

Rylan, I would go with the shamans, I hear they make AWESOME clerics.
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Postby Kifle » Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:16 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rylan:
Whats a decent class for evil cleric? I was thinking of rolling one.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now damnit rylan, stop fiddling around and come play with us :P

BTW, i think you should consider a bard since you seem to sing that bean song so well on the webpage Image

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Postby Salen » Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:53 am

Hrmm Refusing Me,Refusing You...

Jegzed is in ABBA?


I knew ABBA was evil, I just guess I didn't realize how evil.

Heh, I have pondered being evil cleric. I could even bring my own glit mask.

No trading with those goodie scum just so I can do a quest. (how am I fitting in so far??)


Ok now for serious.
It sucks that the mud comes to a screeching halt just because one class isn't available. I've said time and again, clerics are no longer fun to play, thus only a few diehards will play them.

I've made numerous spell/ability suggestions to make them fun to play without making them Uber.

My most recent thought is easing the XP tables on Clerics and Enchy's. These are the 2 classes that no one seems to play(On ebil/goodie respectively). The things they have in common are, nothing offensive in fights, and sucky leveling.

How much could it hurt to make them level a little more quickly?

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Postby Azenilsee » Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
<B>
My most recent thought is easing the XP tables on Clerics and Enchy's. These are the 2 classes that no one seems to play(On ebil/goodie respectively). The things they have in common are, nothing offensive in fights, and sucky leveling.

How much could it hurt to make them level a little more quickly?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, clerics. I find it the easiest class to level next to a warrior. Once you hit level 31, watch out, you'll literally fly to level 46. Seriously, clerics exp tables don't need fixing.

What needs to be done is some improvements in the 9th/10th circle spell slots. Apart from GRP, no spells in those circles are used in combat at all, thus making clerics just full-heal bots. There's a lot of suggestions in the BBS, like upgrading holy/unholy word into a higher circle slot plus numerous others.

As for Enchanters, they are the most powerful class in the game, bar none. You have a group with a cleric but with no stoner/scaler? Forget about zoning. Enchanter tables are not bad either, for solo levelling it will take some work, but since when does an Enchanter solo for exp? The main reason people don't play one is the HUGE amount of work you have to do in a zone. It really becomes a job instead of having fun.

Also, both class do take a lot of flak when they don't perform their roles well. They are absolutely essential for a group's well-being. I really believe that you have to be thick-skinned when playing either class, because at some point in your lifetime you will be chewed out over something that you didn't do or didn't do right, and cause a massive spank. When that happens, you know you're not having fun anymore and just stop playing.

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Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:58 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Azenilsee:
<B> The main reason people don't play one is the HUGE amount of work you have to do in a zone. It really becomes a job instead of having fun.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hear, hear.

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Postby Snurgt » Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:05 pm

Not to hijack this thread but,

as someone who has switched from enchanter to about 17 other alts about 10 times cuz of the workload,

I dont think its enchanters exp table that needs fixing, cuz they usually get more group offers than they know what to do with. Its more the workload. For me I dont mind the globe/stone/blur, its the constant tells for haste on top of all of that makes me wanna stop playin the char.

Just my personal gripe.

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Postby Gindipple » Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:07 pm

Couldn't agree with you more Azenilsee.
Clerics and Enches exp is pretty ok now.
Ench exp used to suck royally, but it's on par now.
Ench is clearly the harder class to play, but there has to be one class that is hardest to play.
Whenever someone tells me they are getting bored with their class I usually tell them to roll an ench Image
And if they want a real challenge I suggest a Yuan-Ti Ench
Cleric I found to be kinda middle of the road, not a huge amount to do for spellups and you get 1 or 2 prime tasks in battle, heal and usually something like blind or silence.
For casters, they're not quite as boring as Invoker and not quite as much work as Ench.
If you get bored playing cleric but like the class, Shaman might be a good diversion.


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Postby Gormal » Sat Nov 02, 2002 5:01 pm

every class is fun here...its all what you make it. I love cleric I love my warrior...I've had fun with other classes as well. Its all in the player's attitude. Oh no you have to spell up alot of people..oh no your class isnt supreme uberness of all...whine whine. Personally I care more about what comes after my name being (Dwarf) then the 3 letters before it.

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Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Sat Nov 02, 2002 5:13 pm

Play an enchanter to 50 and zone with him before you take an Enchanters inventory, Jake.

I like you and all, but you haven't the faintest clue of what it's like.

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Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:27 pm

I have to say that playing an enchanter was a lot of fun until major paralysis got nerfed.. then it just totally lost its magic for me.

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Postby Jorus » Sun Nov 03, 2002 4:09 am

I enjoy enchanting.

IMO, the workload is largely what you make of it. Ignoring requests for hastes from people not assigned to me is a good first step for me.

However, It is only in very hitter-heavy groups that haste becomes "vital", and it is in hitter-heavy groups where the enchanter is often ALREADY heaviest worked, making haste just a bit more irritating. I think having timestop would alleviate this for me, however (aliases virtually eliminate typing for me).

Regards,
Jorus
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Postby Daz » Sun Nov 03, 2002 4:23 am

bards
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Postby Rokub » Mon Nov 04, 2002 2:56 am

You say plz give clerics more spells, but there are times when you should be healing no matter what Image Like probalby 2 weeks ago in blood bayou we had one of the easiest fights possible, had 3 lvl 47+ clerics, and the clerics all decided to cast curse and silence person, this caused the deaths of 2 members of the group who got totally owned full heals could have saved them. Lesson learned be a cleric 1st, a spellcaster 2nd.

I say if the clerics wants the spells give it to them, but the 1st minute I see a cleric not healing when they should be is when I ungroup them or scream at them for doing a poor job Image

Rokub

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Postby Selias » Mon Nov 04, 2002 10:59 pm

Well on the goodie side I feel that there are more than enough dscalers... sometimes I log on, the boot is only 5hrs old, and I'm relegated to doing exp b/c there are 5 other 46+ chanters out there. Please don't make it easier to level an enchanter, or if you do give enchanters the exp to add to other chars to make up for it.

Malacar - I *love* chanting, and to be honest the workload isn't that much for me, even if I'm the only chanter in the group. I've had to take up leading as well as primary chanting in order to keep myself occupied. I suggest that you get yourself a good set of aliases to make the job easier. Mine isn't nearly as good as arishae's, but they were simple to make and save me a lot of typing.

And Jegzed I completely agree with you on your points.
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Postby Zalkenai » Tue Nov 05, 2002 3:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gindipple:
<B>

For casters, they're not quite as boring as Invoker and not quite as much work as Ench.


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow.... Being an invoker is boring? I love zoning and nuking the crap out of things. Especially when we get 3-4 of us for the force missile brigade... except for:

Zazyg tells you: 'looks like your on tblasts'

Damn all those higher level vokers! :)

Zalkenai Ark'Henneld
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Postby Musi » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:10 pm

I think clerics should have a nice 9th circle offensive spell. I have 3 divine blessings prayed, but I almost never use them. No one wants a revive, so that's a joke. I don't have planeshift. Even if I ask if we could do something RQ for my quest after the zone etc..., everyone always suddenly has to log. 20 minutes later, most of the same people are still online.

Also, to the people that said we should get off our asses and zone, zone, zone...
I tried to log on this weekend and I saw that there were 9 48+ lvl clerics on. When I did a who cleric sort ungrouped, I was the highest lvl at 43. Like anyone was going to group with me Image In the hour I was sitting there, asking people if they needed a cleric, no one said yes. It's REALLY hard to zone and lvl yourself when you have no offense to kill anything that cons more than needle!

What am I trying to say? I think I'm going to take a vacation from the mud for a while. I'm sick of the whining and bitching all the time. I know I have crappy eq, that I don't have ress and no one will help me. Not even the people that I always try to help ever offer to help me when asked. I know RL>>>>mud, so I'm getting my priorities straight again. A lot of you will probably be happy when I'm gone and I don't really care anymore.

To my true friends (and you know who you are) I hope to log on and talk with you again. To those of you that used me to get whatever, what comes around goes around. Maybe when you need help with something, no one will help you either.


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Musi "needs to take a break" {-Randgriur-} Waelcyrge Sororitas

[This message has been edited by Musi (edited 11-05-2002).]
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Postby Tasan » Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:02 am

Notifying Glorishan of this thread @once, and sitting back and 3njoying popcorn.

Clerics are overrated.

Twinshadow

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Postby Glorishan » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:04 am

Fair enough. Fact is, what a cleric (or anyone) chooses to do or not do is none of your business. If I (or anyone) choose not to do a zone because, well frankly I don't feel like it because it's the 13th hour of the 2nd tuesday of the 9th month on the 23rd aniversary of your neighbor's dog's former-owner's ex-wive's 3rd cousin's development of a lisp, well that's my business. And frankly, nobody needs to give you a reason. If someone says 'no' when you ask them to zone, just take it for that...they either can't or don't want to...It's not their job to provide you with their services if they don't want to...If you need another cleric so badly, spend less time complaining about it and more time leveling your own. The fact that you're choosing to refuse help to anyone who doesn't come every time you whistle for them is childish and rediculas.

Grow up, and where's my popcorn.

Glorishan


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Glorishan
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Postby Glorishan » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:18 am

Oh yeah...And as far as people dying because a cleric decides to cast curse and silence person, well odds are, more often than not, other lives were saved as a result...Weigh the results, 2 deaths vs potential massive death...Learn the class before you whine about how others play it.

When did I get so grumpy? Bah humbug.

Glorishan


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Arilin Nydelahar
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:26 am

http://www.dsrising.com/columns.asp?ColumnistId=16

I think that says about everything that needs to be said about clerics. Third paragraph really should be read close. Enjoy. :P

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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Nov 06, 2002 2:12 pm

I just figure if they don't want to zone they probably have a good reason. If you're the type of person that demands they do what you ask of them... or is that what you ORDER them to do... then their good reason is probably that they don't want to zone with *you*.
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Postby Sarell » Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:25 am

I don't think Jegzed is being so petty like some make out. He does ackknowledge RL etc etc.

Problem I see if you don't help someone cos they didn't help you or your friend, in a very short time in such a small community as sojourn, eventually no one will help anyone else Image

I think lots of the argument in this topic is extreme as if the constitution of sojourn was based on some unfallable divine command. It isn't, we have to weigh up what we do, I am sure jegzed isnt going to push you out of groups because you felt really ill one time and couldnt zone because you were halucinating (which helps in some zones). There is a problem I see a bit of late with selfishness, eg, wont do zone cos have that gear etc but for me if someone never helps out, is always afk, hates zoning, hates people, hates earthquakes, etc etc, well, you prolly don't reallly want them to come anyhow hehe..

Another thing that really wasn't taken into account since the topic is aimed at clerics is the AFK dice. Clerics have an infallable right to dice against eachother to see who gets to be afk, maybe the cleric in question did win the afk dice and the other isnt living up to the duties that come with loosing the afk dice? Just as a side note, in a bizarre twist during zoning if glori and ebgar both roll 3 100s in a row when dicing for afk, then they BOTH get to be afk! This is when shaman and druid abuse must come into play...


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Postby sok » Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:46 am

dude sarell, that's the greatest thing i ever heard. gonna try the afk dice next time i zone.
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Postby Glorishan » Thu Nov 07, 2002 5:28 am

The invention of the AFK dice:
http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001113.html

And I really don't think this is the issue here. I really don't know of any clerics who do it other than I.

Glorishan


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Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:00 am

I say once again every class is needed to balance a group .... Sojourn is all about grouping and group dynamics ...

But grouping means helping people ... even if you get nothing out of it .. I personally help people whenever I can ... and expect them to help me as well .. If people continue to refuse to group just because they arent getting a piece of eq they want or because someone they *hate* is in the group .. I see nothing but a downfall

I so hate not zoning because playerX has a *hardon* for playerY ... that is SO ridiculous! Sure goodies are a larger pbase but I have seen/heard the same things from them as what happens on *our* side ... I can see it now .. o boss man i can't work on that project cause i hate that coworker.... can u say FIRED!

One resser online and they won't zone cause playerY is in group ... sure it's his right to say no .. but what's good for the group is far greater than whats good for me being an asshole ... Are there people I don't really like that I group with? Sure on occasion .. but in general i like everyone Image (yeah even Daz and Caz:P) It sort of pains me internaly to see squabbles between my group mates (hell even my guildmates!!!)

Whats my point??

Why can't we just agreee to disagree .. get along with life and believe that it will come in time to all who wait

Love you guys!!

-Jen
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Postby Yayaril » Thu Nov 07, 2002 12:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ambar:
<B>I say once again every class is needed to balance a group .... Sojourn is all about grouping and group dynamics ...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh oh! That means the group will never be balanced, because I'm not seeing how you can get the ranger, druid, paladin, anti paladin, dire raider and psionicist all into one group!



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-Yayaril
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Postby Mikayla » Thu Nov 07, 2002 3:46 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>Play an enchanter to 50 and zone with him before you take an Enchanters inventory, Jake.

I like you and all, but you haven't the faintest clue of what it's like.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey mal be the only resser on at a time, damn i am so glad i dont have ress no more



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Her Royal Bitchness Eye Aeturnum
Corth
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Postby Corth » Thu Nov 07, 2002 4:25 pm

Something about the title of this thread always reminds me of some cheesy neil diamond song when I see it....

refusing meeee
refusing youuuuuuu
sweet caroline
oh oh oh

blah



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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Nov 07, 2002 4:48 pm

ABBA, definitely an ABBA song.
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Postby Malacar » Thu Nov 07, 2002 5:19 pm

You're comparing apples to oranges, Mikayla.

There's a large large difference between having to cast 800 spells in a zone, and casting 800 resses... One is done within a 10 minute span, the other over a few hour period.

Granted, clerics have it rough, I am by no means saying they aren't. However, comparing clerics to enchanters isn't a good example, imo.

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Postby Mikayla » Thu Nov 07, 2002 6:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>You're comparing apples to oranges, Mikayla.

There's a large large difference between having to cast 800 spells in a zone, and casting 800 resses... One is done within a 10 minute span, the other over a few hour period.

Granted, clerics have it rough, I am by no means saying they aren't. However, comparing clerics to enchanters isn't a good example, imo.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

right there, but back in those days also we did not have realms, and dragon prots sucked majorly, not counting vits, bless, armor, and heals



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Glorishan
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Postby Glorishan » Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:50 pm

Mikayla, back before GRP every other fight wasn't a dragon like it is now...The only time protting people was ever an actual chore was when you did Tiamat, and then yes...it was the biggest chore in the world :P I'm going to have to agree with Malacar here. (Somebody help me)

Glorishan


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sok
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Postby sok » Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:24 am

jabberwock, quartz, q, yan, rare load white dragon, chlora, & gut. deep dragon amulet was awesome til they changed it, nows its just the next best fire prot item for snakes.
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Postby Wargo » Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:03 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Musi:
<B>I think clerics should have a nice 9th circle offensive spell. I have 3 divine blessings prayed, but I almost never use them. No one wants a revive, so that's a joke. I don't have planeshift. Even if I ask if we could do something RQ for my quest after the zone etc..., everyone always suddenly has to log. 20 minutes later, most of the same people are still online.

Also, to the people that said we should get off our asses and zone, zone, zone...
I tried to log on this weekend and I saw that there were 9 48+ lvl clerics on. When I did a who cleric sort ungrouped, I was the highest lvl at 43. Like anyone was going to group with me Image In the hour I was sitting there, asking people if they needed a cleric, no one said yes. It's REALLY hard to zone and lvl yourself when you have no offense to kill anything that cons more than needle!

What am I trying to say? I think I'm going to take a vacation from the mud for a while. I'm sick of the whining and bitching all the time. I know I have crappy eq, that I don't have ress and no one will help me. Not even the people that I always try to help ever offer to help me when asked. I know RL>>>>mud, so I'm getting my priorities straight again. A lot of you will probably be happy when I'm gone and I don't really care anymore.

To my true friends (and you know who you are) I hope to log on and talk with you again. To those of you that used me to get whatever, what comes around goes around. Maybe when you need help with something, no one will help you either.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh you didn't know that planeshift is the 11th circle spell that you always get AFTER you get your ress spell?
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Postby Wargo » Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Glorishan:
<B>Oh yeah...And as far as people dying because a cleric decides to cast curse and silence person, well odds are, more often than not, other lives were saved as a result...Weigh the results, 2 deaths vs potential massive death...Learn the class before you whine about how others play it.

When did I get so grumpy? Bah humbug.

Glorishan


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Difference between noobie, experienced, super clerics:

A noobie cleric casts heals in battle
An experienced cleric casts offensives in battle
A super cleric never dies.
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Postby Glorishan » Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:58 am

Wargo is my new favorite person Image

Glorishan


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Gormal group-says 'damn im worthless'
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wargo:
<B> Difference between noobie, experienced, super clerics:

A noobie cleric casts heals in battle
An experienced cleric casts offensives in battle
A super cleric never dies.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Noobie, experienced or super, none of that makes you a "good" cleric. A "good" cleric knows when to cast whatever needs to be cast at that time.

I've known at least a couple of "experienced" clerics that still couldn't cast their way out of a paper bag, and several younger and less experienced clerics that seemed to have a real knack for it.
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Postby Mikayla » Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:03 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Glorishan:
<B>Mikayla, back before GRP every other fight wasn't a dragon like it is now...The only time protting people was ever an actual chore was when you did Tiamat, and then yes...it was the biggest chore in the world :P I'm going to have to agree with Malacar here. (Somebody help me)

Glorishan

well glori i dont know about playing a cleric now but back when dragonnia was in, damn i was super busy, or imix, or yan or demo everyone wanting prots. now as for these days, i dont really know, i have not decided if i wanna play a cleric seriously again or not.


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



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Glorishan
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Postby Glorishan » Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:06 pm

Imix needed prot fire, Yan needed prot cold, people wanted prots on demo? Yeah sure there's an argument for dragonia, but that was taken out over seven years ago.

Glorishan


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Postby Mikayla » Fri Nov 08, 2002 7:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Glorishan:
<B>Imix needed prot fire, Yan needed prot cold, people wanted prots on demo? Yeah sure there's an argument for dragonia, but that was taken out over seven years ago.

Glorishan


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


right, but as i said, i dont know if i wanna play a cleric seriously again, things are to easy Image



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