re: char roller

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Gyrx
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re: char roller

Postby Gyrx » Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:07 pm

Now, I know there are a bazillion great ideas for the character roller, but as I sit here rolling a char i thought i should suggest one that i've always thought. (I might have already suggested it, or someone else might have, if so sorry)

Before you start rolling for stats, you choose one stat that you feel your character wouldn't have below 66 (so you would always only get average or higher).

I'm just tired of always seeing "bad" in what i picture as my chars 2nd most important stat.

Thoughts?
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Postby Zen » Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:11 am

My thoughts on the roller are that the 4 most crucial stats for any class shouldn't be able to roll below 80. Getting stats that are 80+ on the top for attributes for your class is pretty close to essential in this game for most races. As it is, you take 5 hours to get those stats rolled. That's a long time to get good stats if you're not hooked yet.

-Lorgan

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Postby Guest » Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:41 am

Quote: Getting stats that are 80+ on the top for attributes for your class is pretty close to essential in this game for most races

How do you figure? You can do quite well without having everything up above 80...why not just make everybody at 100 and just remove all +stat gear? there is a TON of +stat gear, and for most classes, their primary stats are what they get the most +stat of :P

-G

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Postby thanuk » Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gargamel:
<B>Quote: Getting stats that are 80+ on the top for attributes for your class is pretty close to essential in this game for most races

How do you figure? You can do quite well without having everything up above 80...why not just make everybody at 100 and just remove all +stat gear? there is a TON of +stat gear, and for most classes, their primary stats are what they get the most +stat of :P

-G

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Play a warrior with 75 con and 70 agi, and you will retract this statement Image STR is not the main stat for warriors...


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Zen
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Postby Zen » Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gargamel:
<B>Quote: Getting stats that are 80+ on the top for attributes for your class is pretty close to essential in this game for most races

How do you figure? You can do quite well without having everything up above 80...why not just make everybody at 100 and just remove all +stat gear? there is a TON of +stat gear, and for most classes, their primary stats are what they get the most +stat of :P

-G

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Many of the primary stats notch in the high 90's for many races. Humans, and I assume orcs, are the only race I know that notches in the 80's across the board. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that statment.)

That said, if you just get rolls of 80 on your primary stats. (Str Agi Dex and Con for melee types) then you need +20 stat to each of those to hit your prime. Having to + one stat to get your max notch is not the end of the world, but having to + 4 will kill you.

Granted that's just my opinion, but making the roller put those primary stats automaticly in the number range where they could be bonused to something useable even if you got the lowest possible rolls cuts down on the time it takes to roll a playable character, and that in turn has to help the population of the mud grow.

-Lorgan


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Postby cherzra » Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:58 pm

I have 85ish str, 82 agi, 84 dex, 90 con, 20 int, 30wis.

Really, stop focusing on 99 for everything and just play. It really doesn't matter if your stats are 80 or 100. Everything over 80 (besides con) is a luxury because all you get is some silly +1hit, +1dam or 6 extra ac.

[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 12-31-2002).]
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:24 pm

I have to wear stat enhancing gear for both str and con. Amazingly enough there's gear that works perfectly for me in both: dscale gaunts for str and dragonscale leggings for con. Each contributes to my eq set in ways that are useful to me besides just the str/con and I come out just fine. That's the whole reason there are stat enhancements on the gear in the first place.

I'd be almost tempted to ask for everyone to go back to last wipe's roller, where you had even less control of the stats you rolled. Not everything has to be perfect, if it was it would be boring.
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:27 pm

Oh, and yes I understand that "one stat" problem. For me it's always agi. My little mages have to have high int/con/agi and decent str. All I want to do is survive the lower levels and drag my own corpses.
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Postby Zen » Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:38 pm

The real issue with the stat roller isn't the stats it kicks out, it is the time it takes to get those stats. I've yet to meet any actively played character who's 4 most important stats where < 80. Not even Cherzra can claim that.

If that's the way you have to roll to play? Why not make the roller do it and save time for new players who are still trying to decide if they like the game?

-Lorgan

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Postby thanuk » Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:46 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
<B>I have to wear stat enhancing gear for both str and con. Amazingly enough there's gear that works perfectly for me in both: dscale gaunts for str and dragonscale leggings for con. Each contributes to my eq set in ways that are useful to me besides just the str/con and I come out just fine. That's the whole reason there are stat enhancements on the gear in the first place.

I'd be almost tempted to ask for everyone to go back to last wipe's roller, where you had even less control of the stats you rolled. Not everything has to be perfect, if it was it would be boring.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what would you do if you needed 5 con to notch instead of 4, reroll? Image Theres stat enhancing gear that helps if your just shy of where you want to be, but if your more than say 9 away from your highest notch your up the creek. Stats really do matter, even to the last notch. Maybe not str cuz all you get is 1 damroll, but dex effects how much you fumble, agi has major effect on AC and dodge, and we all know about con. Granted you dont need 99 everything to play, but 75 or less in a major stat and you are screwed mightily. If anything, i would just say have the roller junk the garbage rolls itself, just to cut time. Dont change the percentages or anything, but dont even bother if con is under 80 etc etc...just roll it again till your somewhere near where you want to be.

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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Dec 31, 2002 4:01 pm

No, if your stats suck mightily I suggest rerolling, but there's enough control over the roller we have now to get a fairly decent character set with very little effort, once you know what you're looking for. Rolling a mage is more of a pain in the butt to roll, rolling a warrior/hitter type is cake, but it's not like it's difficult.
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Postby Daz » Tue Dec 31, 2002 4:32 pm

Personally I think you people who are looking to make things easier on one hand and harder on the other need to find more hobbies :P

Be glad it is as easy to get good stats this time as it is, compared to what we had before.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:08 pm

I agree daz. The roller didn't seem to offer me any troubles. I didn't roll for hours and hours. I think i spent about 20 minutes at the roller, and got a set of stats that i thought were decent. Mind you, i've met other ppl that play a similar or the same class as myself, and have slightly better stats than me, but thats just kinda the difference. NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME. if everyone is at the same stat notch on all their prime skills, it's gunna be like having copies of each other. That detracts from the fun, and enjoyability of having as close to a unique player you can, based on stats. Also, wearing the equipment that i have, not sacrificing hit/dam or hp, i've got 100 or near it, in most all of my stats. The one exception is my agility, but there is an item that i could use, with very little loss in terms of hit/dam or hp that would put it at 100 as well.

The current roller DOES make playable characters rather quickly, it does not, however make near-perfect ones like some seem to want. I say leave it, it's where it needs to be.
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Postby Diel » Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:41 pm

Hey if I remember right, I think I read in the D&D players handbook that stats make the character! I don't see why it would be a problem for people who enjoy RPing and whatnot because it shapes their character better, but then again, for people like me who just like to play the game.. please continue! :P

--- yet another useless statement by me ---
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Postby Sylvos » Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:53 pm

My stats are like 84 91 95 85 for the physical and I don't remember the others. It means I've always had to juggle the right equipment to maximize my stat potential, and I'm missing out on a little bit of extra hit/dam because of it.

Eh? So what. I still hit like a tonka truck (as opposed to a micro-machine), and I don't look like a cookie-cutter of other rangers. And it didn't take too long to get those stats.

Let the roller be I figure, except possibly highlight the prime reqs of a class on the roller so new players know where to aim.

Sylvos
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Postby thanuk » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:27 pm

Uhm, calm down all of you Image I dunno about everyone else, but my only point is that its a waste of time to sit there and surf through rolls of 50-75 con when rolling a character. Regardless of anything else, you arent gonna take those stats, even if everything else is 100. Im not saying change the roller percentages or make it easier to use, im saying that if it rolls a 55 con it shouldnt even bother putting it on the screen, just roll it again. Nobody is gonna take those stats if they know what they are doing, and if they dont know what they are doing they are gonna get screwed. I didnt roll for 5 hours either, it took me about half an hour to roll my stats, and i think the important ones (top row) are 93 89 89 94. I could've had these stats in about 20 seconds if i didnt have to watch the CON: bad come up over and over until it got somewhere decent. Its just a suggestion, after all Image

edit --
As for new hobbies, if you think having a character that is inherantly inferior to everyone else's character enhances your experience, then maybe its you who should find a new hobby, but thats just one mans opinion.
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[This message has been edited by thanuk (edited 12-31-2002).]
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Postby old depok » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zen:
<B>The real issue with the stat roller isn't the stats it kicks out, it is the time it takes to get those stats. I've yet to meet any actively played character who's 4 most important stats where < 80. Not even Cherzra can claim that.

If that's the way you have to roll to play? Why not make the roller do it and save time for new players who are still trying to decide if they like the game?

-Lorgan

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Lorgan. Yes you have. Depok has < 80 STR and less than 80 Dex I believe.

Now you can argue that these stats are not required for a shaman but I would argue that at least str is from levels 1-21.

If I rolled him up again I would not have accepted his current stats.

Stats are not as important for casters as Melee after the low to mid 20's when they stop being rogues (only way to really level a caster from 1-20 is as a hitter).
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Postby Zen » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by old depok:
<B> Hi Lorgan. Yes you have. Depok has < 80 STR and less than 80 Dex I believe.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I can and will argue that str isn't a prime stat for casters. It's about as useful as int on a warrior. Helpful, but not necessary.

That said, what's your int, wisdom and con? I'm betting at least two of those are 80+ if not all three.

Someone shoot me for agreeing with thanuk plz. Stats under 80 for vital attributes should just be trashed on the server side. Image

-Lorgan

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Postby thanuk » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zen:
<B> Someone shoot me for agreeing with thanuk plz. Image

-Lorgan

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Further proof that i am almost always right, and you only disagree with me because you are a bunch of player haters.

Thanuk pimps onward.



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Gyrx
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Postby Gyrx » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:52 pm

Uhm, thanks for the responses, but like only 2 of them have responded to the point of the thread.

I'm not whining about how long it is to get great stats. If I choose to get great stats, then i'll spend the time it takes. I'm not telling anyone else to go do it, so don't tell me to not do it.

Point is, i'm tired of the "garbage" stats as they were called. I'm never going to make any char with "bad" agility. I don't care if i'm a tank or not, I want to be able to visualize my character actually being able to move!

My suggestion was to let you pick one stat that you picture your character not having 25 in. In my case, it'd be agility. So then I would up my min agility to something the imms could determine.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this suggestion or improvements on this suggestion. Quit hijacking my thread.
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Postby Marforp » Tue Dec 31, 2002 8:37 pm

*cough* Thanuk has the best suggestion yet. Remove bad from CON. No one should have to play a character with "bad" CON and I fear that some newbie has had to do that to only find out latter how bad life is.

Hell a quick question would be...any negative affect with removing all "bad" rolls from the top line of stats?

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Postby cherzra » Wed Jan 01, 2003 7:44 pm

No warriors get bad con.

Every class has minimum reqs which are automatically met with EVERY ROLL.

EVERY warrior has at least these stats:


Minimum stats: STR: 75 DEX: 65 AGI: 65 CON: 75
POW: 0 INT: 0 WIS: 0 CHA: 0


That's a minimum. These chars are STILL PLAYABLE.

God I wish they would put back in the old roller even. I find it utterly amazing that people still bitch with the awesome roller we have now.
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Postby Gavry » Wed Jan 01, 2003 10:22 pm

Just to annoy those who are finding it hard to roll a good char.

Natural stats:

STR: 89 AGI: 94 DEX: 92 CON: 94
POW: 60 INT: 48 WIS: 64 CHA: 69

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Postby Ragorn » Thu Jan 02, 2003 1:14 am

I have whittled the posts in this thread down to two very simple facts:

1. Many people believe that the roller should be difficult. They believe that having character with less than optimal stats enhances the mud, and they state that there is more than enough stat equipment to offset the difference in low character stats.

2. None of these players want THEIR character to be the one with 75 natural con. Most of the people backing up the difficult roller are the ones who spent 6 days rolling their character *cough*.

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Gyrx
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Postby Gyrx » Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:04 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>No warriors get bad con.

Every class has minimum reqs which are automatically met with EVERY ROLL.

EVERY warrior has at least these stats:


Minimum stats: STR: 75 DEX: 65 AGI: 65 CON: 75
POW: 0 INT: 0 WIS: 0 CHA: 0


That's a minimum. These chars are STILL PLAYABLE.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ya, I'd like you to be able to pick an extra stat that would get a minimum of say, 65.

Looking at warriors though, they don't really need that. Hmm. I was more or less thinking of caster classes who constantly get bad physicals.

[This message has been edited by Gyrx (edited 01-01-2003).]
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Postby Dalar » Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>No warriors get bad con.

Every class has minimum reqs which are automatically met with EVERY ROLL.

EVERY warrior has at least these stats:


Minimum stats: STR: 75 DEX: 65 AGI: 65 CON: 75
POW: 0 INT: 0 WIS: 0 CHA: 0


That's a minimum. These chars are STILL PLAYABLE.

God I wish they would put back in the old roller even. I find it utterly amazing that people still bitch with the awesome roller we have now.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

heh the "old roller" didn't matter b/c Mystra booted you off after an hour. I remember when I tried to roll a monk for exactly one hour and she booted me off. how'd i know? i petitioned asking why i got disconnected Image

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Postby Turxx » Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:28 pm

why dont we just eliminate the roller all together and just let people pick the stats they want? you get so many points total divide how you wish
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Postby Zoldren » Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:48 am

standard distrabition!

1-50 1 opint
50-60 2 points
60-70 3 points
70-80 4 points
80-90 5 points
90-99 6 points
100 10 points



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Postby old depok » Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:04 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zen:
<B> Yes I can and will argue that str isn't a prime stat for casters. It's about as useful as int on a warrior. Helpful, but not necessary.

That said, what's your int, wisdom and con? I'm betting at least two of those are 80+ if not all three.

Someone shoot me for agreeing with thanuk plz. Stats under 80 for vital attributes should just be trashed on the server side. Image

-Lorgan

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok ok Wis 100 Int 92 Con 84 (I think).

I agree that Con should never be bad. When I roll a character I set up triggers for con only and make sure that I look at only rolls with con at good or higher (changed that to fair with my necro but still took the one with good con).

In thinking about this more Lorgan I would say that for a caster the following would be the 4 most important stats:

Int
Con
Agil
Str

For a priest it would be

wis
con
int
agil

That said I wouldn't play a caster without at least ave wis due to the role wisdom plays in notching skills.
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Postby Mikayla » Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:35 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B>
Originally posted by Zen:
Someone shoot me for agreeing with thanuk plz. Image

-Lorgan

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Further proof that i am almost always right, and you only disagree with me because you are a bunch of player haters.

Thanuk pimps onward.


people will you stop agreeing with nukie it will go to his head, and swell even larger then it already is Image


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