Dear Area Gods
Dear Area Gods
Could you please consider the fact that there is more than one certain type of item in-game? What i mean is when you make a quest asking for "a blood red potion", can you be slightly more specific? Also, when you make quests like this, can you make it a step by step quest instead of "give me 3 vague items?" This way I'll know which item is wrong. Example:
Quest mob sez: "Give me a sapphire, a potion made of fire, and a pair of wings". jee, how many sapphires, potions with fire description, and wings are there in game? I would rather have it
"Give me a sapphire"
give 50 sapphires until i find the right one.
"Give me this token I'm going to give you and a potion made of fire"
give the token then 50 potions of fire until i find the right one etc.
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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
Quest mob sez: "Give me a sapphire, a potion made of fire, and a pair of wings". jee, how many sapphires, potions with fire description, and wings are there in game? I would rather have it
"Give me a sapphire"
give 50 sapphires until i find the right one.
"Give me this token I'm going to give you and a potion made of fire"
give the token then 50 potions of fire until i find the right one etc.
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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerad:
<B>Some quests are supposed to be vague in that nature, to make them more difficult.
Apparently for you that intention has succeeded
-Gerad
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
you obviously haven't been to Hulburg yet.
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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
<B>Some quests are supposed to be vague in that nature, to make them more difficult.
Apparently for you that intention has succeeded
-Gerad
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
you obviously haven't been to Hulburg yet.
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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by oteb:
<B>Gerad i rember you complaining about airship's quests. IMO they can be tiresome but are pretty much fedex quests.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
PWNED
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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
<B>Gerad i rember you complaining about airship's quests. IMO they can be tiresome but are pretty much fedex quests.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
PWNED
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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
To start with, I am not a good quester.
To add to this posting, though, is I personally think that there should be a way to have the mobs give back the items if they are not correct or did not cause an action.
Why? Because I have made the mistake of giving multiple items to do a stage of a quest and then nada. I was not even sure WHICH of the items was incorrect, but I knew I had lost all of them (not a rogue, and lotta the quest mobs have ways of avoiding rogues). In addition, I was really frustrated by a quest last night where I had to hand over a rare item and have a situation setup, and it failed to trigger. Since the mob "disappears" in a few minutes, there was no way to fix the problem in time and I lost a months work. (violins played)
Can we set code like qgive (for quest give) that only allows you to give if the mob wants it, and would allow to be given back by asking mob return or something? Also, this could allow mobs to take an object EVEN if it is a very heavy object.
Once again though, I am not a very good quester, and I tend to be doing quests everyone else knows, because I think that is the way it should be.
On a side note... I would LOVE someone who IS good at quests to post here the actions that are useful to be tried on objects.
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Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
To add to this posting, though, is I personally think that there should be a way to have the mobs give back the items if they are not correct or did not cause an action.
Why? Because I have made the mistake of giving multiple items to do a stage of a quest and then nada. I was not even sure WHICH of the items was incorrect, but I knew I had lost all of them (not a rogue, and lotta the quest mobs have ways of avoiding rogues). In addition, I was really frustrated by a quest last night where I had to hand over a rare item and have a situation setup, and it failed to trigger. Since the mob "disappears" in a few minutes, there was no way to fix the problem in time and I lost a months work. (violins played)
Can we set code like qgive (for quest give) that only allows you to give if the mob wants it, and would allow to be given back by asking mob return or something? Also, this could allow mobs to take an object EVEN if it is a very heavy object.
Once again though, I am not a very good quester, and I tend to be doing quests everyone else knows, because I think that is the way it should be.
On a side note... I would LOVE someone who IS good at quests to post here the actions that are useful to be tried on objects.
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Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by oteb:
<B>Gerad i rember you complaining about airship's quests. IMO they can be tiresome but are pretty much fedex quests.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was complaining about that because it was vague in general, not because there was more than one item with that name...
If a quest is hard, it is so because it helps to limit the number of that item in the game, same with almost any difficult thing.
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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
<B>Gerad i rember you complaining about airship's quests. IMO they can be tiresome but are pretty much fedex quests.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was complaining about that because it was vague in general, not because there was more than one item with that name...
If a quest is hard, it is so because it helps to limit the number of that item in the game, same with almost any difficult thing.
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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fripple:
<B>To start with, I am not a good quester.
To add to this posting, though, is I personally think that there should be a way to have the mobs give back the items if they are not correct or did not cause an action.
Why? Because I have made the mistake of giving multiple items to do a stage of a quest and then nada. I was not even sure WHICH of the items was incorrect, but I knew I had lost all of them (not a rogue, and lotta the quest mobs have ways of avoiding rogues). In addition, I was really frustrated by a quest last night where I had to hand over a rare item and have a situation setup, and it failed to trigger. Since the mob "disappears" in a few minutes, there was no way to fix the problem in time and I lost a months work. (violins played)
Can we set code like qgive (for quest give) that only allows you to give if the mob wants it, and would allow to be given back by asking mob return or something? Also, this could allow mobs to take an object EVEN if it is a very heavy object.
Once again though, I am not a very good quester, and I tend to be doing quests everyone else knows, because I think that is the way it should be.
On a side note... I would LOVE someone who IS good at quests to post here the actions that are useful to be tried on objects.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do, however, agree with this, as long as its not twinkable.
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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
<B>To start with, I am not a good quester.
To add to this posting, though, is I personally think that there should be a way to have the mobs give back the items if they are not correct or did not cause an action.
Why? Because I have made the mistake of giving multiple items to do a stage of a quest and then nada. I was not even sure WHICH of the items was incorrect, but I knew I had lost all of them (not a rogue, and lotta the quest mobs have ways of avoiding rogues). In addition, I was really frustrated by a quest last night where I had to hand over a rare item and have a situation setup, and it failed to trigger. Since the mob "disappears" in a few minutes, there was no way to fix the problem in time and I lost a months work. (violins played)
Can we set code like qgive (for quest give) that only allows you to give if the mob wants it, and would allow to be given back by asking mob return or something? Also, this could allow mobs to take an object EVEN if it is a very heavy object.
Once again though, I am not a very good quester, and I tend to be doing quests everyone else knows, because I think that is the way it should be.
On a side note... I would LOVE someone who IS good at quests to post here the actions that are useful to be tried on objects.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do, however, agree with this, as long as its not twinkable.
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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
There is a difference between hard and so absurd that only a couple people do it and then the norm for quests is to be told between people. While I won't devulge quests in the straight forward manner, If there is an item or a mob that a player cannot find because it is done 2 seconds after it loads I will help people out. The mud is SO big many item listed in quests new and old are just absurdly obscure. Then maybe I am just not good enough at riddles... Another option would be to string the quest several ways so that any pair of wings of potion of fire would work? Pay off player knowledge a bit in a different way.... shrug.
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or making it one item per turn in plus a step holder would be lovely. hulburg just keeps pissing me off with vague clues. and gerad, i believe there's a fine line between vague and retarded. airship isn't that close to vague. hulburg is beyond retarded.
edit: i meant the quests
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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
[This message has been edited by Dalar (edited 01-06-2003).]
edit: i meant the quests
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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
[This message has been edited by Dalar (edited 01-06-2003).]
Hulburg is really vague. I just started and one of the first items I've been asked for is a sphere that glows. Hope nobody gets upset at me for giving away any quest info there...
Do I really have to state that I was being sarcastic, or does that seem fairly obvious? I don't support any method of making the quests easier except the way they're written. That sphere is one of several that I can think of off the top of my head that match the criteria given, and each one has a heck of a lot more information behind it which could be used as a clue to which sphere is needed.
Do I really have to state that I was being sarcastic, or does that seem fairly obvious? I don't support any method of making the quests easier except the way they're written. That sphere is one of several that I can think of off the top of my head that match the criteria given, and each one has a heck of a lot more information behind it which could be used as a clue to which sphere is needed.
I'm not sure that there's a whole lot I can do here, outside of giving quest writers the option to return invalid items. That would probably help a ton, although it would require going back and altering old quests to take advantage of the new code.
I'll give it some more thought.
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<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
I'll give it some more thought.
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<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
An addendum to the area building docs telling them to take care in how they write their quests would probably do it. Before anybody jumps on me over Hulburg, that's an amazing zone, the information given in it is overwhelming in detail and amount... seems like opposite ends of the extreme when compared to how the quests are worded. At least word them so we can whittle down the choices to two or three, instead of a dozen.
Shev,
Thanks for responding. I have tried to think of a way to imp what would be a return command, but it just does not look easy.
Only thing I could think of, is if you already store ownership of items handed in, since I have never checked what happens if someone turns in 2 of 3 items and a rogue (not Ashiwi though) turns in the 3rd item. With ownership of the items a command for return could be used that checked object ownership.
I really enjoy questing, it's really all I do now. Just very slowly.
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Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
Thanks for responding. I have tried to think of a way to imp what would be a return command, but it just does not look easy.
Only thing I could think of, is if you already store ownership of items handed in, since I have never checked what happens if someone turns in 2 of 3 items and a rogue (not Ashiwi though) turns in the 3rd item. With ownership of the items a command for return could be used that checked object ownership.
I really enjoy questing, it's really all I do now. Just very slowly.
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Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
Ownership isn't stored, that's why some quests need placeholders. You could turn in two of the items and I could turn in the third and get the reward. Maybe (not fully sure on this one) you could even blind the mob, give them all three, heal the mob, then I could give them a copper coin and get the reward.
Just guessing that storing ownership of the items would take up more file space than the way it's done now. No idea how much more, but less is better, right?
Just guessing that storing ownership of the items would take up more file space than the way it's done now. No idea how much more, but less is better, right?
Ashiwi,
It would not take more disk space, but would take more memory since any object given to a mob would now have to have an ID stored with it. The return code would be new, and the questing code would remain the same that way. I am not sure how significant overhead it would add, since to protect against Null crashes you would have to do similar checks as to consent and group for removing the pointers.
Anyway, I still have not thought of a good implementation for what I would like to see Just glad some people seem to agree and are thinking about it.
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Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
It would not take more disk space, but would take more memory since any object given to a mob would now have to have an ID stored with it. The return code would be new, and the questing code would remain the same that way. I am not sure how significant overhead it would add, since to protect against Null crashes you would have to do similar checks as to consent and group for removing the pointers.
Anyway, I still have not thought of a good implementation for what I would like to see Just glad some people seem to agree and are thinking about it.
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Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
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- Sojourner
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No, it just stops people from bothering to try in the first place. I dont like to quest, this is no secret. When i need an item that must be quested, i get as much help as possible from other people and do the quest simply for the reward. You will never see me be the first to finish a quest, because its a huge waste of time and god only knows what piece of crap is going to come out of it. Too many horror stories of bad rewards, items lost from having the wrong items, and just general frustration after turning in 27 different "gems of great value" that are the wrong fucking gem.
I doubt im the only one who has been totally turned away from questing because of stupid crap like this. Just put the full and exact string of the item you want in the shopping list *cough* i mean quest mobs little banter and save everyone a headache. Even with the full string, you either know where it is, or you dont. Once the quest is done 2 times, its a moot point because everyone leaks information anyway. Just because your quest is so vague that no human could possibly determine the desired item by anything other than trial and error, does not mean that its difficult or clever. Quests should challenge your mind, not your patience.
Muspelhiem is the perfect example of what quests should be like. The mob tells you exactly what he wants, and if you have previous knowledge of that item you know exactly what the guy is talking about. If you have never seen the item, it doesn't tell you where to get it, but it gives you a decent idea of where to start looking. If every quest was like that, more people would want to do them.
If the quest was a riddle it would friggin rhyme. The way things are going, the next zone is gonna have a quest mob that asks for 5 items who's description is "You see nothing special about it." Its the most difficult quest ever because nobody will ever figure it out!
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Thanuk Pantherclaw
Gargauth responds to your petition with 'whats your point, we hate you'
I doubt im the only one who has been totally turned away from questing because of stupid crap like this. Just put the full and exact string of the item you want in the shopping list *cough* i mean quest mobs little banter and save everyone a headache. Even with the full string, you either know where it is, or you dont. Once the quest is done 2 times, its a moot point because everyone leaks information anyway. Just because your quest is so vague that no human could possibly determine the desired item by anything other than trial and error, does not mean that its difficult or clever. Quests should challenge your mind, not your patience.
Muspelhiem is the perfect example of what quests should be like. The mob tells you exactly what he wants, and if you have previous knowledge of that item you know exactly what the guy is talking about. If you have never seen the item, it doesn't tell you where to get it, but it gives you a decent idea of where to start looking. If every quest was like that, more people would want to do them.
If the quest was a riddle it would friggin rhyme. The way things are going, the next zone is gonna have a quest mob that asks for 5 items who's description is "You see nothing special about it." Its the most difficult quest ever because nobody will ever figure it out!
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Thanuk Pantherclaw
Gargauth responds to your petition with 'whats your point, we hate you'
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- Sojourner
- Posts: 417
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So don't do the quests...
some quests are easy some are not, they are not all geared for the weak minded ya know, and not everyone has the same drive or intellect in the game...
There are tons of quests that tell you exactly what is needed, and then there are some that don't.
Look at Kerns, each token has a hint what the item is but does not tell you exactly...
I don't recall anyone saying anything about it when first came in the game and no one had completed it.
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Ilshad
"Your accomplishment is nothing compared to the glory that is Ilshadrial!!" Yayaril
some quests are easy some are not, they are not all geared for the weak minded ya know, and not everyone has the same drive or intellect in the game...
There are tons of quests that tell you exactly what is needed, and then there are some that don't.
Look at Kerns, each token has a hint what the item is but does not tell you exactly...
I don't recall anyone saying anything about it when first came in the game and no one had completed it.
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Ilshad
"Your accomplishment is nothing compared to the glory that is Ilshadrial!!" Yayaril
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- Sojourner
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:01 am
"So don't do the quests" is a cop-out answer. The quests are put in the game to be done, and in some cases questing is necessary, Kerns is a good example of a necessary quest. Playing an anti-paladin and not questing an unholy avenger would just be stupid. But kerns isnt really a bad quest. Sure it doesn't give the exact string of the item you need, but it makes it pretty damn clear what the guy wants, not alot of room to misinterpret it. Knowing where to find those items is a different story, but figuring out what they are or might be isn't that hard, and the options are fairly limited.
I think you missed the point of my post. Questing has become a major faction of this game; its often required, usually necessary, and never completely avoided. If you dont quest for fun, you have done it for equipment, a spell, or you have helped someone else out with their own quest. Its not something you can just "not take part in". Alot of people are turned off by questing, and not for any good reason at all. I like a good brain teaser, im good at puzzles, challenges are good. Camping *cough* i mean hunting a 5% rareload for 3 months is lame. Finding a quest mob that asks for a sword, a peice of armor and a gem is lame. Quests that require thought are a good thing, quests that require an endless bout of trial and error with a pre-recorded response are a bad thing.
So you can cop out if you want to, and dont worry, i won't be doing the quests until i find one that yields an item of significant power. When i find that quest, ill bother people for information until i get what the quest mobs little schtick doesnt provide, and ill camp *cough* i meant hunt for the inevitable 5% rare at the end, and ill kill off some of my guild mates during the final fight. But thats about it. And whether they admit it or not, the majority of the mud population has proven by their actions that they take the same approach, which is why the same quests are constantly done and others are done once and forgotten. And not for any good reason, as these people are intrinsically smart and capable enough to do the quests, but dont want to put up with the bullshit associated with them. I just tried to point out what that bullshit was.
Step one is identifying the problem, step two is eliminating it. If you want to ignore it, then questing will remain a secondary concern on the mud, although it has the potential to be the primary goal of the highlevel player, and would be a great way to extend the end-game indefinately. But the way it is currently, questing will remain secondary to zoning, and people will continually become fed up with it and stop wasting their time, which benefits no one, including the person who wrote the quest, as if nobody is willing to bother with it, than all your hard work went to waste.
P.S. this isn't a personal jab at you ilshad, as i dont find your quests to be too bad with this generally(although the lost items part applies to every quest), but rather my opinion of the overall status of quests and questing in the mud.
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Thanuk Pantherclaw
Gargauth responds to your petition with 'whats your point, we hate you'
I think you missed the point of my post. Questing has become a major faction of this game; its often required, usually necessary, and never completely avoided. If you dont quest for fun, you have done it for equipment, a spell, or you have helped someone else out with their own quest. Its not something you can just "not take part in". Alot of people are turned off by questing, and not for any good reason at all. I like a good brain teaser, im good at puzzles, challenges are good. Camping *cough* i mean hunting a 5% rareload for 3 months is lame. Finding a quest mob that asks for a sword, a peice of armor and a gem is lame. Quests that require thought are a good thing, quests that require an endless bout of trial and error with a pre-recorded response are a bad thing.
So you can cop out if you want to, and dont worry, i won't be doing the quests until i find one that yields an item of significant power. When i find that quest, ill bother people for information until i get what the quest mobs little schtick doesnt provide, and ill camp *cough* i meant hunt for the inevitable 5% rare at the end, and ill kill off some of my guild mates during the final fight. But thats about it. And whether they admit it or not, the majority of the mud population has proven by their actions that they take the same approach, which is why the same quests are constantly done and others are done once and forgotten. And not for any good reason, as these people are intrinsically smart and capable enough to do the quests, but dont want to put up with the bullshit associated with them. I just tried to point out what that bullshit was.
Step one is identifying the problem, step two is eliminating it. If you want to ignore it, then questing will remain a secondary concern on the mud, although it has the potential to be the primary goal of the highlevel player, and would be a great way to extend the end-game indefinately. But the way it is currently, questing will remain secondary to zoning, and people will continually become fed up with it and stop wasting their time, which benefits no one, including the person who wrote the quest, as if nobody is willing to bother with it, than all your hard work went to waste.
P.S. this isn't a personal jab at you ilshad, as i dont find your quests to be too bad with this generally(although the lost items part applies to every quest), but rather my opinion of the overall status of quests and questing in the mud.
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Thanuk Pantherclaw
Gargauth responds to your petition with 'whats your point, we hate you'
I personally prefer quests to be more challenging, I like the hunt. Not the hunt for rares, but the hunt for the answer to the puzzle. I love a good riddle, what I don't love is when I'm asked for an item that could easily be one of a half dozen items in the game, from something a level two could pick up easily to something I've never even seen before and probably wasn't in the game yet when the zone with the quest went in. Vague I don't mind, but there is a point where "vague" starts to become silly.
If the quest item was "Faith" (the sword) and the quest puzzle was an effeminate man in tight leather trousers who said "I need someone to hold me, but I wait for something more..." I could probably figure it out no problem, but if he came out and said "I want a steel dagger," I'd probably throw up my hands and give up.
If the quest item was "Faith" (the sword) and the quest puzzle was an effeminate man in tight leather trousers who said "I need someone to hold me, but I wait for something more..." I could probably figure it out no problem, but if he came out and said "I want a steel dagger," I'd probably throw up my hands and give up.
If noone else got Ashiwi's George Michael reference, I will be the first to respond with
ROFL MY ASS OFF!
That said, the attitude with questing can be taken another step farther...
Even if the items are extremely vague, and the quest takes you months (or years), there is no guarantee that the quest will work, or be complete, or give an item of any worth.
Now, that being said yes, nobody if forcing you to quest anything. I used to do ANY quest I could find, just for the fun of it, regardless of the reward or outcome. Not to sound like a broken record, but my attitude towards questing has changed. Any one of the 30 ppl that were at 1w yesterday learned that as I dumped 15 containers worth of quest eq.
I think everyone there got at least one Erlan proclamation, one turquoise key, one icon of Pahlruk/Saukurk, or 20 items for BGR quests.
Everyone needs to to ask themselves.. When are you doing too much work for too little reward?
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ROFL MY ASS OFF!
That said, the attitude with questing can be taken another step farther...
Even if the items are extremely vague, and the quest takes you months (or years), there is no guarantee that the quest will work, or be complete, or give an item of any worth.
Now, that being said yes, nobody if forcing you to quest anything. I used to do ANY quest I could find, just for the fun of it, regardless of the reward or outcome. Not to sound like a broken record, but my attitude towards questing has changed. Any one of the 30 ppl that were at 1w yesterday learned that as I dumped 15 containers worth of quest eq.
I think everyone there got at least one Erlan proclamation, one turquoise key, one icon of Pahlruk/Saukurk, or 20 items for BGR quests.
Everyone needs to to ask themselves.. When are you doing too much work for too little reward?
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Strangely enough - I don't really care what the prize at the end is of a quest... but I like to complete them. The object return or easier detection of what needs to be handed would be nice.
And like you said, on some of the newer quests handing over keys items and finding the quest is broken would be better served if you could get the items back.
I will argue for better rewards when I get an Iron Ration for handing in a couple cloaks of elvinkind.
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Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
And like you said, on some of the newer quests handing over keys items and finding the quest is broken would be better served if you could get the items back.
I will argue for better rewards when I get an Iron Ration for handing in a couple cloaks of elvinkind.
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Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
Something to remember, is that sometimes a mob might ask for (made up example) an ancient artifact of netheril, and actually wants the bracelet of netheril from the quest. Unless you had done the quest, or talked to the mobs about the quest, you might not have any idea what the mob is talking about... thats just one example, but often times mobs that talk about something you dont have any clue about, are talking about information that you got during another quest, or even just by talking to some other mob...
...just something to think about...
Gerad
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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
...just something to think about...
Gerad
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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dalar:
<B>wow what quest mob disappeared after a few minutes?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
A lot of mobs can do that. It's encouraged somewhat, just so long as it's fairly clear that there's a risk of this happening. I imagine, since Fripple is one of the most careful mages I know, that this wasn't the case.
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Toarn group-says 'my lvl 50 buffer has officially been Mori-fied.'
Shevarash tells you 'you want to mud marry me? *scratch*'
<B>wow what quest mob disappeared after a few minutes?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
A lot of mobs can do that. It's encouraged somewhat, just so long as it's fairly clear that there's a risk of this happening. I imagine, since Fripple is one of the most careful mages I know, that this wasn't the case.
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Toarn group-says 'my lvl 50 buffer has officially been Mori-fied.'
Shevarash tells you 'you want to mud marry me? *scratch*'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dalar:
<B>Thanks Gerad for posting more useless facts. Go to Hulburg.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK, this is a good thread Dalar, and a needed one, but you can't just assume that the only quests anyone should ever care about are all in Hulberg =)
... can you? IF so, them's some overpowered quests!
Let me propose a compromise. If the quest is meant to be vague, maybe it should include the quest mob saying 'And nope, I ain't telling you any more, figure out the details yourself if you're so smart.' or something to that effect. Just so it's absolutely clear that the confusion is intended.
Otherwise what happens is originally the quest is written asking for, say, item X. At that time there are two such X-type items in the game. Years pass, and many mighty area makers add to the world, and behold! There are now 17 X-type items in the game, and the quest is now essentially broken.
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Toarn group-says 'my lvl 50 buffer has officially been Mori-fied.'
Shevarash tells you 'you want to mud marry me? *scratch*'
<B>Thanks Gerad for posting more useless facts. Go to Hulburg.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK, this is a good thread Dalar, and a needed one, but you can't just assume that the only quests anyone should ever care about are all in Hulberg =)
... can you? IF so, them's some overpowered quests!
Let me propose a compromise. If the quest is meant to be vague, maybe it should include the quest mob saying 'And nope, I ain't telling you any more, figure out the details yourself if you're so smart.' or something to that effect. Just so it's absolutely clear that the confusion is intended.
Otherwise what happens is originally the quest is written asking for, say, item X. At that time there are two such X-type items in the game. Years pass, and many mighty area makers add to the world, and behold! There are now 17 X-type items in the game, and the quest is now essentially broken.
------------------
Toarn group-says 'my lvl 50 buffer has officially been Mori-fied.'
Shevarash tells you 'you want to mud marry me? *scratch*'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dalar:
<B>Thanks Gerad for posting more useless facts. Go to Hulburg.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks Dalar, for being closeminded and proving that, in a discussion where openmindedness is the only factor, you have no place.
You gave no explanation as to why you disagree, you were simply being rude, which is not appreciated.
Gerad
------------------
Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
<B>Thanks Gerad for posting more useless facts. Go to Hulburg.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks Dalar, for being closeminded and proving that, in a discussion where openmindedness is the only factor, you have no place.
You gave no explanation as to why you disagree, you were simply being rude, which is not appreciated.
Gerad
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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
from my point of view, all you guys are talking about are airship quests. no offense but they aren't nearly as vague as the ones in hulburg. in one of my latest quests i was asked for something that was light blue and bubbling. after trial and error and completely bulldozing the area it turned out to be an item that was neither light blue or bubbling. and no the clue was not a mistake.
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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
<B> OK, this is a good thread Dalar, and a needed one, but you can't just assume that the only quests anyone should ever care about are all in Hulberg =)
... can you? IF so, them's some overpowered quests!
Let me propose a compromise. If the quest is meant to be vague, maybe it should include the quest mob saying 'And nope, I ain't telling you any more, figure out the details yourself if you're so smart.' or something to that effect. Just so it's absolutely clear that the confusion is intended.
Otherwise what happens is originally the quest is written asking for, say, item X. At that time there are two such X-type items in the game. Years pass, and many mighty area makers add to the world, and behold! There are now 17 X-type items in the game, and the quest is now essentially broken.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
it was a good thread until u guys hijacked it without even reading what i was talking about. when an extremely vague clue like "a sapphire" is given there are a dozen possibilities as to what the answer could be. it really pisses me off that the only answer that is correct is the areamaker's answer, even though it's wrong. a ghost in hulburg asks for something she could wear and it's worn by someone who is like her. the mostlikely answer was incorrect. the true answer was something corporeal (ghosts can wear corporeal stuff?!). it happens to be that hulburg does this quite often and it's extremely annoying. also it's a relatively new zone so it covers about 6 years worth of zones including itself.
you're right though, hulburg isn't the only zone that has vague quests. but when you want to make the best example, point to the place w/ the most of something.
------------------
Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
<B> OK, this is a good thread Dalar, and a needed one, but you can't just assume that the only quests anyone should ever care about are all in Hulberg =)
... can you? IF so, them's some overpowered quests!
Let me propose a compromise. If the quest is meant to be vague, maybe it should include the quest mob saying 'And nope, I ain't telling you any more, figure out the details yourself if you're so smart.' or something to that effect. Just so it's absolutely clear that the confusion is intended.
Otherwise what happens is originally the quest is written asking for, say, item X. At that time there are two such X-type items in the game. Years pass, and many mighty area makers add to the world, and behold! There are now 17 X-type items in the game, and the quest is now essentially broken.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
it was a good thread until u guys hijacked it without even reading what i was talking about. when an extremely vague clue like "a sapphire" is given there are a dozen possibilities as to what the answer could be. it really pisses me off that the only answer that is correct is the areamaker's answer, even though it's wrong. a ghost in hulburg asks for something she could wear and it's worn by someone who is like her. the mostlikely answer was incorrect. the true answer was something corporeal (ghosts can wear corporeal stuff?!). it happens to be that hulburg does this quite often and it's extremely annoying. also it's a relatively new zone so it covers about 6 years worth of zones including itself.
you're right though, hulburg isn't the only zone that has vague quests. but when you want to make the best example, point to the place w/ the most of something.
------------------
Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
You guys know me, and let's just say this is probably the only time you'll see me standing behind Dartan and nodding. Hulburg is well written with a great storyline that's quite overwhelming in detail. It just blows me away that some people seem to have waltzed in right after the zone went in, putting everything together in the time it's taken me just to take 20 pages of notes from mob responses. My hat's off to those who worked through it so easily, but I'm afraid it's going to take me a long, long time.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dalar:
<B> you're right though, hulburg isn't the only zone that has vague quests. but when you want to make the best example, point to the place w/ the most of something.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fair enough. I wasn't thinking of airship or hulberg tho. =)
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Toarn group-says 'my lvl 50 buffer has officially been Mori-fied.'
Shevarash tells you 'you want to mud marry me? *scratch*'
<B> you're right though, hulburg isn't the only zone that has vague quests. but when you want to make the best example, point to the place w/ the most of something.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fair enough. I wasn't thinking of airship or hulberg tho. =)
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Toarn group-says 'my lvl 50 buffer has officially been Mori-fied.'
Shevarash tells you 'you want to mud marry me? *scratch*'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
You guys know me, and let's just say this is probably the only time you'll see me standing behind Dartan and nodding. Hulburg is well written with a great storyline that's quite overwhelming in detail. It just blows me away that some people seem to have waltzed in right after the zone went in, putting everything together in the time it's taken me just to take 20 pages of notes from mob responses. My hat's off to those who worked through it so easily, but I'm afraid it's going to take me a long, long time.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks If you're noting mob responses, don't fear when I say that the quest file is in excess of 300 KB
You guys know me, and let's just say this is probably the only time you'll see me standing behind Dartan and nodding. Hulburg is well written with a great storyline that's quite overwhelming in detail. It just blows me away that some people seem to have waltzed in right after the zone went in, putting everything together in the time it's taken me just to take 20 pages of notes from mob responses. My hat's off to those who worked through it so easily, but I'm afraid it's going to take me a long, long time.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks If you're noting mob responses, don't fear when I say that the quest file is in excess of 300 KB
bahahah
someone wrote 300kb of junk that sounds like 'bring me a long sharp sword from underground... and a shiny gem'! Thats a riot
j/k, I know its a lot more complicated than that. Theres a lot of incredibly detailed story and background before the incredibly vague hint about what the guy wants!
------------------
Goddamned slippery mage.
[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 01-16-2003).]
someone wrote 300kb of junk that sounds like 'bring me a long sharp sword from underground... and a shiny gem'! Thats a riot
j/k, I know its a lot more complicated than that. Theres a lot of incredibly detailed story and background before the incredibly vague hint about what the guy wants!
------------------
Goddamned slippery mage.
[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 01-16-2003).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shaundakul:
<B>
Thanks If you're noting mob responses, don't fear when I say that the quest file is in excess of 300 KB </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unh.
I dislike you more every day.
One mob response takes up two pages. ONE of the mob's responses. Why don't you ever write stories?
<B>
Thanks If you're noting mob responses, don't fear when I say that the quest file is in excess of 300 KB </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unh.
I dislike you more every day.
One mob response takes up two pages. ONE of the mob's responses. Why don't you ever write stories?
Easiest, and perhaps best solution: (Imho)
Ammend the docs (should definitely be done anyhow, wow i wont start) to make area makers give more meaningful clues, UNLESS the quest is totally meant to be very confusing, HENCE hard, and therefor, REWARDING.
A great example: blue addy bracers. the mage asks for a certain purple vial. he describes it quite accurately, and you would be retarded to hand him the wrong one, especially if you had the correct one in inv.
As far as revamping old quests, simply do the ones which get the most complaints. Obscure quests can remain obscure (adds complexity and detail to the game) while popular quests will always be completed regardless, and if the quest requires intra-player help to decipher, so be it...all the part of being POPULAR, eh?
Ammend the docs (should definitely be done anyhow, wow i wont start) to make area makers give more meaningful clues, UNLESS the quest is totally meant to be very confusing, HENCE hard, and therefor, REWARDING.
A great example: blue addy bracers. the mage asks for a certain purple vial. he describes it quite accurately, and you would be retarded to hand him the wrong one, especially if you had the correct one in inv.
As far as revamping old quests, simply do the ones which get the most complaints. Obscure quests can remain obscure (adds complexity and detail to the game) while popular quests will always be completed regardless, and if the quest requires intra-player help to decipher, so be it...all the part of being POPULAR, eh?
First comment, is I think there should be an indepth quest helpfile. Included in that is that all the mobs in the newbie zone should be made like BGR to respond to hello. Included in this help file would be the responds to "hello," the give 1 c/iron ration hint, explanations of how to look for quests, hints on how actions work on items, etc. Also, explaining what the game's philosophy on quests... possibly changed by this thread's discussion, would be nice.
-----------------------
I still see this thread as being multiple issues.
For me, I thought a way to return "wrong" items to a person would be nice. I was told in game that some of the quests purposefully were designed to remove items from the game. Fine. But code it so the mob takes the item with some story... even if it is just "oooh, this is worth something for my cause, etc" ... but if there is no response, I wanna tell them to give it back.
The second part to this was improving the requested item's description. I am not into any difficult quests really, but I already understand that in a lot of cases the real quests are requesting items that are only generated from outputs of other equally obtuse quests that are out of the way and require being asked a strange "keyword" to even remember they would like something. This is just kind of strange to me.
I think zones like airship, monastary, even BGR are awesome for being self contained (for the most part). When they reach outside they are CLEAR about the fact you have to go outside the zone. "... Lastly from the home of the dwarfs, far to the north, bring me some diamond leggings."
What exactly makes people feel that spending 100s of hours going to get and find an item that is slightly better than an item that can be gotten in a zone run is unfair? I think the quest writing should be better defined for making the items clear. Do the writers get reviewed on the quest as well as the items generated from the quest?
BTW, so far, what I have found about questing is you log everything, store it into two parts, things you feel are definitely a quest tip (and what quest is most likely), and a directory of just everything you have ever seen, heard, or done on this mud. You then set up a search for all files in the directory for each of your "keywords" as you talk to mobs. Cross reference where you have heard that same word before, and once again make notes and make next step judgements. Sound about right to you all?
It's getting to the point where I am writing aliases to ask "X" mob a list of a couple hundred keywords I am looking for.
BTW I am still looking for someone to post a list of common actions that can be performed on objects in the rooms.
I love quests overall. Just wondering whether they are really meant to be this way?
------------------
Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
-----------------------
I still see this thread as being multiple issues.
For me, I thought a way to return "wrong" items to a person would be nice. I was told in game that some of the quests purposefully were designed to remove items from the game. Fine. But code it so the mob takes the item with some story... even if it is just "oooh, this is worth something for my cause, etc" ... but if there is no response, I wanna tell them to give it back.
The second part to this was improving the requested item's description. I am not into any difficult quests really, but I already understand that in a lot of cases the real quests are requesting items that are only generated from outputs of other equally obtuse quests that are out of the way and require being asked a strange "keyword" to even remember they would like something. This is just kind of strange to me.
I think zones like airship, monastary, even BGR are awesome for being self contained (for the most part). When they reach outside they are CLEAR about the fact you have to go outside the zone. "... Lastly from the home of the dwarfs, far to the north, bring me some diamond leggings."
What exactly makes people feel that spending 100s of hours going to get and find an item that is slightly better than an item that can be gotten in a zone run is unfair? I think the quest writing should be better defined for making the items clear. Do the writers get reviewed on the quest as well as the items generated from the quest?
BTW, so far, what I have found about questing is you log everything, store it into two parts, things you feel are definitely a quest tip (and what quest is most likely), and a directory of just everything you have ever seen, heard, or done on this mud. You then set up a search for all files in the directory for each of your "keywords" as you talk to mobs. Cross reference where you have heard that same word before, and once again make notes and make next step judgements. Sound about right to you all?
It's getting to the point where I am writing aliases to ask "X" mob a list of a couple hundred keywords I am looking for.
BTW I am still looking for someone to post a list of common actions that can be performed on objects in the rooms.
I love quests overall. Just wondering whether they are really meant to be this way?
------------------
Fripple Kiara - Stone Heart -
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fripple:
BTW I am still looking for someone to post a list of common actions that can be performed on objects in the rooms.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know that the sojourn area docs has a list of all possible commands in it. You could probably write a script that would attempt each command on whatever keyword you enter. Ask around, a lot of people have the docs.
------------------
Goddamned slippery mage.
BTW I am still looking for someone to post a list of common actions that can be performed on objects in the rooms.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know that the sojourn area docs has a list of all possible commands in it. You could probably write a script that would attempt each command on whatever keyword you enter. Ask around, a lot of people have the docs.
------------------
Goddamned slippery mage.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B> I know that the sojourn area docs has a list of all possible commands in it. You could probably write a script that would attempt each command on whatever keyword you enter. Ask around, a lot of people have the docs.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would be wary about publicly espousing areadoc dissemination. Part of the allure of Soj is that most numbers are hidden. As Kia once said, the areadocs are not publicly posted, and that is for a reason.
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Toarn group-says 'my lvl 50 buffer has officially been Mori-fied.'
Shevarash tells you 'you want to mud marry me? *scratch*'
<B> I know that the sojourn area docs has a list of all possible commands in it. You could probably write a script that would attempt each command on whatever keyword you enter. Ask around, a lot of people have the docs.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would be wary about publicly espousing areadoc dissemination. Part of the allure of Soj is that most numbers are hidden. As Kia once said, the areadocs are not publicly posted, and that is for a reason.
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Toarn group-says 'my lvl 50 buffer has officially been Mori-fied.'
Shevarash tells you 'you want to mud marry me? *scratch*'
Hrmm, I didnt really give it much thought before posting. I don't know what the policy is. I know that the docs are distributed rather freely to anyone who wants to write a zone, which I believe is a good thing. But then again, as you mentioned, they aren't distibuted to the general public. I can't recall anything secret being revealed in the document. I have a fairly old copy however so that might have changed. It does give you a better idea about how the mud works which could make you a better player presumably. Heh, I really dont know. Should ask some of the immorts i guess...
Corth
------------------
Goddamned slippery mage.
Corth
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Goddamned slippery mage.
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