Search or Snake Int, take your pick

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Dizzin
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Search or Snake Int, take your pick

Postby Dizzin » Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:09 pm

Okies, here's the log.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 103v/126V P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 103v/126V P: std > sear

The night has begun.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 104v/126V P: std > You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 105v/126V P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 106v/126V P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 109v/126V P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 110v/126V P: std >
It's hotter than anyone could imagine.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 111v/126V P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 112v/126V P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 114v/126V P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 115v/126V P: std > sear
You find a secret entrance!

< 699h/699H 381p/381P 117v/126V P: std >


Took me 9 tries to search out the entrance. I have 104 int as a yuan-ti. And this happens to me on a regular basis. Frankly I think Snakes just need a massive overhaul. It's time for them to gain back at least half the slots they're missing. I don't care if every one of their innates gets tossed, but there HAS to be a reason to play a snake above the want for Infra or the *need* for illusionists.

Oh, and fix search too.
Good Day!
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:18 pm

But I don't have that problem, and I have 82 elf intelligence. I usually find whatever I'm looking for on the first few tries... if not the first one. If search were really broken then wouldn't it follow that everybody would have a hard time finding things?

Can hidden difficulty be set in this mud? Perhaps there are some doors you have to search out regularly which have a high difficulty to them.

As for Yuan-ti being broken... since I don't have a Yuan I'm clueless.
Dizzin
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Postby Dizzin » Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:38 pm

Well, that was pretty much my point Ash. As a drow, it never takes more than 3 searches to find. As a snake, I've spent 10 tries and more. Snake intelligence needs looking at, along with snake agi, snake dex, snake missing of 4 eq slots, etc etc. And please dont tell me that tail slot means much. Even the best tail eq rare from pretty much the hardest zone out there doesn't equal to 1 regular earring or leggings.

I was told that a yuan upgrade was in the works about a month ago but have heard nothing since. Snakes need one.

/rant Image
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Postby cherzra » Wed Jan 15, 2003 10:43 pm

Everyone knows drow are ridiculously easy and overpowered, while yuan-ti get screwed with crap stats and missing slots. And yeah, search needs a rehaul too.
tsaej
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Postby tsaej » Thu Jan 16, 2003 4:20 am

I have always thought that Yuan-ti intelligence needed an improvement when compared to other races. Especially considering help Yuan-ti contains lines like:

Yuan-Ti are an extremely intelligent, yet evil race of snake people that live on the surface of Faerun.

Although they are of genius intelligence and lightning fast, Yuan-ti are slightly weaker and less hardy than humans. They also tire more easily and, because of their anatomic design, are somewhat limited in what they can wear.

Another aspect to the race that appears in the help files but is not the case is in food consumption:

In a manner similar to snakes, Yuan-Ti are required to consume huge amounts of food once per MUD week.

Tssizz -Shadowed Terror-


------------------


[This message has been edited by tsaej (edited 01-15-2003).]
Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Thu Jan 16, 2003 5:58 am

Im a drow....i cant find nothin. takes me ages. Course maybe my 44 int has somethin to do with that. *whistle*

Nilan
aka
Stabby
Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
<B>If search were really broken then wouldn't it follow that everybody would have a hard time finding things?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I play the race with the highest INT of all, and these are my attributes:

Character attributes for Xisiqomelir

Level: 50 Race: Illithid Class: Psionicist
Age: 152 yrs / 8 mths Height: 20 inches Weight: 40 lbs
STR: 74 AGI: 70 DEX: 48 CON: 93
POW: *** INT: *** WIS: 100 CHA: 40

and here is a log:

< 643h/640H 478p/685P 90v/124V >
< P: std > n
A Debris-Strewn Tunnel
Rocks and debris lay scattered about the floor of what appears
to have been a mine tunnel of some sort. The tunnel apparently
collapsed in a hail of massive rock; whether the rockslide was
intentional or not is a mystery. Bits of crushed wood and twisted
metal can be seen pressed beneath the weight of rock. The tunnel
opens out into a small ledge to the south; their doesn't appear
to be anyway past the debris further into the tunnel.
Exits: - South

< 643h/640H 479p/685P 89v/124V >
< P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 643h/640H 479p/685P 89v/124V >
< P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 643h/640H 479p/685P 89v/124V >
< P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.
< 643h/640H 479p/685P 89v/124V >
< P: std > sear
You don't find anything you didn't see before.

< 643h/640H 479p/685P 90v/124V >
sear
< P: std > You find a secret entrance!



------------------
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Thu Jan 16, 2003 4:42 pm

Heh... IIRC a couple boots ago I could always get that exit in one search with a squid. Has search been changed in the past few years? :P

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Gyrx
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Postby Gyrx » Thu Jan 16, 2003 7:33 pm

Snakes are fun, i'd just like to see them actually become "extremely intelligent and lightning fast" Image
Zoldren
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Postby Zoldren » Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:07 am

comparativly
snakes suck compared to humans or drow

------------------
MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
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Postby Kegor » Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xisiqomelir:
<B> Well, I play the race with the highest INT of all, and these are my attributes:


Character attributes for Xisiqomelir


Level: 50 Race: Illithid Class: Psionicist
Age: 152 yrs / 8 mths Height: 20 inches Weight: 40 lbs
STR: 74 AGI: 70 DEX: 48 CON: 93
POW: *** INT: *** WIS: 100 CHA: 40
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

After playing drow for so long I can tell you that Illithids are not the most intellegent race. Gnomes and Drow are clearly the most intellegent races. I would think that Illithid would be the most intellegent as well. Why they are not is a mystery to me.
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:38 am

Illithids are indeed the most intelligent race, followed by Elf/Drow, then Gnome.

------------------
<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Sat Jan 18, 2003 6:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>Illithids are indeed the most intelligent race, followed by Elf/Drow, then Gnome.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aren't Yuan-ti meant to be the second most intelligent?

------------------
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
Dizzin
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Postby Dizzin » Sat Jan 18, 2003 6:57 am

Okay, I went through the time to test yuan-ti against other races and this is what I discovered.

Yuan-ti have the same Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution as Humans. They also have approximately the same Agility and Intelligence as Half-elfs. They also lose 4 eq slots. There are only 20 slots on any other race, not including badges or quivers. That's 1/5 of slots that other races have over snakes. That's freaking 20%. Snakes also have, by far, the hardest Hometown in the game.

In order to make up for this, Snakes have these innates.

Scaleskin - At level 50, this gives 35 ac. This is probably the only really useful innate for a caster, but still, it's just ac.

Vipermind - At level 50, this gives 6 hit/5 dam. There are many combinations for hitters that can get better than 6/5 in those 4 slots they're missing.

Tailsweep - Wow, you can bash a mob, maybe, once in a while, if you're not engaged. Plus this also engages you, and how many casters enjoy being engaged for ripostes etc.

Snakebite - Haha, at level 50, it takes *3* bites to kill a level 1 !classed mob. And I'm utterly serious about that.

Befriend Reptile - Okay, this can be kinda cheesy since at level 50 you can charm about 3 level 20-25 reptiles. That means about 3 500-700 hp pets. That can be useful I'll admit, but there's just no that many reptiles in the proper level range out there to use it on.

Infravision - Damn nice, but humans are about the only race out there that *dont* get it. Save Ultras of course.


As you can see, there's nothing in the innates that helps casters from the slots they lose. And it's not just hitpoints they miss, it's also saves and prots etc. Heck, at the higher end, a yuan mage loses up to 7 Sv_petri, 7 sv_spe, and at least 1 prot from those slots, depending on equipment selection. Not to mention 60 hp+.

Frankly, I'd like to see Yuan's eq slots returned to them, or at least 2 of them. Or perhaps make it an option at roll up to be a purebreed yuan instead of the current abomination. You'd lose all the innates, save a maybe a couple nerfed ones, but you'd gain legs and feet, or even all 4 slots as I'm not sure if purebreeds have ears or not.

Regardless, as anyone can plainly see, Yuan-ti need a serious looking at. They are a primarily spellcasting race that is woefully unsuited for it.

Thank you for your time.
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Postby TheSsassin » Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:10 pm

In any discussion of balancing the Yuan-Ti race, I think this needs to be considered.
Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:52 pm

I disagree with Diz, I like our abominations, they're far more inhuman and interesting than purebloods would be.

My "fix" of the race would be to bring the attributes into accordance with the way the helpfile makes them out to be.

Highest Dex and Agi race in the game.

Second highest Int.

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Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
Kegor
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Postby Kegor » Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:20 pm

Wierd my drow and my illithid both use +7 max int and my drow is hands down better at searching. Search being the comparision between the two races I used due to it being the only noticed thing that can identify int use of squids at all. I still believe my drow is more intellegent just because it searches better. Someone once told me this was a hidden attribute to the drow race, and that seems pretty accurate in light of what I have seen. If squids are so smart why do they have to search more than once or twice ever? My drow does not have this problem.

Back to topic of the thread. I agree with all sugestions that yuan-ti be upgraded in the way of intellegence. They are so inferior to drow and duergar in the way of casters. Having infravision is not special at all (yes I way prefer ultravision), and it seems to me this attribute alone was the justified god trade off for the concept that this race should get the shaft, being that evils were/are(?) supposed to be harder and more challenging to play. The tail piece was a step in the right direction, but it is not enough.

Correct me some more plz Shevy. Image
Orvik
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Postby Orvik » Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:00 pm

Dizzin wrote:
>>Snakebite - Haha, at level 50, it takes *3* bites to kill a level 1 !classed mob. And I'm utterly serious about that.

for a caster maybe

Xisi wrote:
(as a potential change)
>>Highest Dex and Agi race in the game.
>>Second highest Int.

Yuan agility is more than adequate imo, although I'd love to see dex up near drow values so I get that occasional extra attack. highest in the game is halflings, not gonna happen.

Second highest int, or basically just match drow. its nice and all but does it really matter at lvl 50 if your int is a notch or two lower than a drow. I'm sure most yuan would prefer a hps upgrade to int upgrades.

dg ET earrings, basilisk leggings, volos and everything we can't wear! or make some tail eq to match

-Pythrrus



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Dezzex
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Postby Dezzex » Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:08 pm

Yuan's lose a lot of slots, but I'm not particularly worried about the hp-loss from that. The other effects would be nice to have (the prots, the wb, the proc stoneskin, etc.), but part of being snake-ish is giving up the slots. In light of that though, I do think there should be advantages to not having legs or feet. As was mentioned before, being tripped, bashed, or quaked should have lesser effect.

The sheer lack of intelligence however is a big deal for me and drives me nuts. I consistently fail 4-5 searches, and I hate sittin there expecting to be done my mem in 10 seconds when I end up failing meditate twice in a row and spend 20 seconds getting 2 dragonscales back.

The int boost, and something else to reflect the yuan-ti abomination body structure would be quite fantastic for me, but I enjoy being yuan-ti anyway.
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Postby Zoldren » Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:41 pm

correct me if i am wrong but arnt abominations supposed to be warriors
and pure breads priests/mages...

instead we take and mix the both
hence screwing the casters for slots and attributes

and screw the warriors on innates attributes


------------------
MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
Dizzin
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Postby Dizzin » Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:36 am

8)

Oh god, I noticed Shev is replying to many of the most recent posts, so I'm bumping this mightily in hopes of a response from the Supah Codah!
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:39 am

Flattery will get you everywhere. :)


As for our reptilian friends and their stats - we're considering it. Just a wee bit more patience! :)
Shevarash -- Code Forger of TorilMUD
Valke
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Postby Valke » Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:42 pm

:) Snakes seem to need a bit of upgrading as some of you have mentioned. As for int, I have failed search about 8-10 times in a row, thats ridiculous and should be changed. I too like the idea of snakes having better Agility, being able to withstand a bash, quake or whatever may knock you down a little better.

For the most part, I love playin snakelings, there pretty sweet. After playin a troll and takin 42 times to search a door (I shit you not) 10 times is really nothing.

Id like to see!
Tailsweep improved
Higher Agi
Higher Int
Lower weight (for reduce)
and of course! 1 or 2 slots added (ears), or amp up the innates!

seems like alot to ask, but that class is missing alot.



Grp.............Grp Grp! people love that!
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Postby Treladian » Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:34 pm

Zoldren: "correct me if i am wrong but arnt abominations supposed to be warriors and pure breads priests/mages... "

The high priests are abominations with human heads. They may or may not have arms, but they can talk like humans.

Pure bloods are rank and file grunts or spies, though being a spy doesn't preclude being a mage. They're seldom priests compared to half-bloods or abominations, which are considered more blessed by Merrewhatever.

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