so after spending lot of time and alot of deaths, I aquired the 1h bludgeon magebane. and come to find out it's not clericable. After a little asking around i find out that there are magebanes for warriors and for thiefs hell even more mages, but once again clerics get the weapon shaft.
Which brings me to my general bitch, why is their such a lack of decent bludgeon weapons for clerics, mages have better weapons they we do and thats sad. We are clerics, we should be wielding bludgeon weapons, the few decent bludgeon weapons that clerics can use are all 2h, which is great for screwing around, but not that great for zoning.
Im stuck using a battle sledge or crappy fiery mace for a weapon, cause there isnt a whole lot of choices.
so could the whole magebane for every class but clerics be looked at, and some nice weapons for us clerics added :P.
Cleric Weapons
I agree with you Bil. There just isn't enough fun toys around for us clerics.
You can wield a skullsmasher or rockcrusher.. but they are 2 handers (and removing 2 held items (no shield eighter!) and lose all thoes hps for a proc that is.. uhm.. every 12th mob? :P is just insane.
I would like to see more weapons for clerics.. Rods, maces, shortswords/daggers(?!) etc.. But hey, that's just me..
-Zolthorrific!
------------------
Omg! Malacar is owned!
You can wield a skullsmasher or rockcrusher.. but they are 2 handers (and removing 2 held items (no shield eighter!) and lose all thoes hps for a proc that is.. uhm.. every 12th mob? :P is just insane.
I would like to see more weapons for clerics.. Rods, maces, shortswords/daggers(?!) etc.. But hey, that's just me..
-Zolthorrific!
------------------
Omg! Malacar is owned!
I'll give the big NODS to you bil. I was hoping with all the influx of new quest weps and stuff that there would be something cool for clerics. I've gotten a sarcastic attitude about weapons, since even mages get cool +hp and uber procing stuff, and I'm stuck holding orbs, or wielding skullsmasher which doesn't effect a large number of mobs I fight anyway. And as a human cleric I can't use rockcrusher so my choices are realistically smasher or nothing for weapons. 
It seems like we all agree to this topic.. even a "goddamned slippery mage!"..
Only problem is.. how do we convince the G's to implement something like this? I was so disapointed in the new air ship place (Hey, back of, I've been away from the mud a while so the air ship is decently new to me!) that dosen't hold anything cool for clerics in my humble opinion..
I say clerics are beeing discriminated! I want to wear more of that niffty hit/dmg eq and accually be something to count on in battle..
-Zolthorrific owns Malacar!
------------------
Omg! Malacar is owned!
Only problem is.. how do we convince the G's to implement something like this? I was so disapointed in the new air ship place (Hey, back of, I've been away from the mud a while so the air ship is decently new to me!) that dosen't hold anything cool for clerics in my humble opinion..
I say clerics are beeing discriminated! I want to wear more of that niffty hit/dmg eq and accually be something to count on in battle..
-Zolthorrific owns Malacar!
------------------
Omg! Malacar is owned!
None of the magebane's are mageable. They're designed and built by a race of non-magical fighters/hitters and are therefore tuned to them. Besides, clerics have silence already for stopping casting.
And yes, the zone was designed mainly for mages with a small nod to tanks/hitters.
And yes, I planned to find a way to make it up to the clerics in my next zone
And yes, the zone was designed mainly for mages with a small nod to tanks/hitters.
And yes, I planned to find a way to make it up to the clerics in my next zone
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bilraex:
And i would gladly wear my hit/dam eq if there was a usefull weapon.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
skullcrusher, rockcrusher, mistweave, mace of disruption, root, bec de corbin, dwarven mithril 2h hammer.
more 2h than 1h, but if you are trying to hit, why would you wnat to use a 1h weapon?
------------------
Hibbidy group-says 'you using fkeys or buttons'
Tsaen group-says 'buttons'
Tsaen group-says 'f1 f2'
And i would gladly wear my hit/dam eq if there was a usefull weapon.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
skullcrusher, rockcrusher, mistweave, mace of disruption, root, bec de corbin, dwarven mithril 2h hammer.
more 2h than 1h, but if you are trying to hit, why would you wnat to use a 1h weapon?
------------------
Hibbidy group-says 'you using fkeys or buttons'
Tsaen group-says 'buttons'
Tsaen group-says 'f1 f2'
I wield skullsmasher and wear a TG and earring of the waters. I also eschew the standard ogrehides in favor of raven talons for the +str.
I haven't felt the lack of hitpoints from two orbs and two hp earrings. As an elf, I'll never have the most hitpoints anyways, and it's fun to see smasher proc.
I'll add the Pahluruk(sp?) root, morningstar enshrouded in flames to Ensis' list of 1h bludgeon weapons, and there's a couple others that I can't think of offhand.
There isn't the same glut of weapons for clerics as there are for more melee-centric characters, true. It would be nice to see us have a bit more melee ability; we do get offense and a decent level of skill in the weapon categories. But, as with most requests for clerics, I have to join Rylan's bitterness camp.
Ashemiem Autumnmoon
Warrior-Priest of Corellon
------------------
Mplor group-says 'dugmaren must be very proud... he levels us up in smoke and de-levels us in muspelheim'
I haven't felt the lack of hitpoints from two orbs and two hp earrings. As an elf, I'll never have the most hitpoints anyways, and it's fun to see smasher proc.
I'll add the Pahluruk(sp?) root, morningstar enshrouded in flames to Ensis' list of 1h bludgeon weapons, and there's a couple others that I can't think of offhand.
There isn't the same glut of weapons for clerics as there are for more melee-centric characters, true. It would be nice to see us have a bit more melee ability; we do get offense and a decent level of skill in the weapon categories. But, as with most requests for clerics, I have to join Rylan's bitterness camp.
Ashemiem Autumnmoon
Warrior-Priest of Corellon
------------------
Mplor group-says 'dugmaren must be very proud... he levels us up in smoke and de-levels us in muspelheim'
hmm Morningstar with flames is great... max wis and 3 dam..
no proc tho
------------------
Deshana Al'Medin, Druid of Eilistraee.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cold Fire Frozen Spirit
IcePhoenix.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Elarin tells you 'heh 'with allies like Desh, lets just not zone''
Thanuk group-says 'btw u all get to tell everyone u popped my cherry now:)'
no proc tho
------------------
Deshana Al'Medin, Druid of Eilistraee.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cold Fire Frozen Spirit
IcePhoenix.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Elarin tells you 'heh 'with allies like Desh, lets just not zone''
Thanuk group-says 'btw u all get to tell everyone u popped my cherry now:)'
I've said for a long time to make some of the good hitter gear clericable, but it won't happen. Clerics are supposed to have 1k hp and stand there.
If you think back to D&D (yes for the millionth time I know 'This isn't D&D' aka you F***heads don't need to post it later on)
Clerics could use anything without a blade, and wear ALL the armor. Beyond that, certain clerics (Cleric of Corellon for one(Longsword)) could use diety specific weapons.
Look through all of the Hitter gear and ask what makes this !cleric? For a good percentage of it, you won't have an answer.
None of the bigass armors should be !cleric, none of the leggings/arms/boots either. The only exception to this would be quest eq that is specific as 'From the great Dwarven Warlord' or 'Forged for the Barbarian Warrior who killed....' etc.
More Rant later. Gotta eat
------------------
emote Rescuepractice
If you think back to D&D (yes for the millionth time I know 'This isn't D&D' aka you F***heads don't need to post it later on)
Clerics could use anything without a blade, and wear ALL the armor. Beyond that, certain clerics (Cleric of Corellon for one(Longsword)) could use diety specific weapons.
Look through all of the Hitter gear and ask what makes this !cleric? For a good percentage of it, you won't have an answer.
None of the bigass armors should be !cleric, none of the leggings/arms/boots either. The only exception to this would be quest eq that is specific as 'From the great Dwarven Warlord' or 'Forged for the Barbarian Warrior who killed....' etc.
More Rant later. Gotta eat
------------------
emote Rescuepractice
The only time I'll wield a weapon is if there's a bard in the group singing haste. A single hit per round which rarely lands on mobs over lev 50 without a ton of hit just isn't worth the HP loss. It would be a toy for non-zone groups and nothing more.
------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A star rushes past, to crash upon the shore
But the first of many many more
Stoke the fire and stout bar the door
For this is the night mages go to war.
(Elminster: The making of a mage)
------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A star rushes past, to crash upon the shore
But the first of many many more
Stoke the fire and stout bar the door
For this is the night mages go to war.
(Elminster: The making of a mage)
Personally, I love wielding a weapon, and have gradually been changing Ebgar to be a hitter/cleric... I'm still looking for some more eq comprimises between +hit/+dam and hitpoints.. let me know if anyone else has some suggestions...
<worn on head> the ancient crown of thunderous divinity (magic) (glowing)
<worn on eyes> a purple silk eyepatch (magic)
<worn in ear> a diamondine earring (magic)
<worn in ear> a diamondine earring (magic)
<worn on face> a glittering golden mask (magic)
<worn around neck> a malevolent darkstone amulet (magic)
<worn around neck> a malevolent darkstone amulet (magic)
<worn on body> elaborate dragonscale robes (magic)
<worn about body> the mantle of knowledge (magic)
<worn as quiver> an eelskin quiver (illuminating)
<worn about waist> a belt encrusted with black sapphires (magic)
<worn on arms> starsilver chainmail sleeves (magic)
<worn around wrist> an arm band of the sylphs (magic)
<worn around wrist> an arm band of the sylphs (magic)
<worn on hands> a pair of taut ogrehide gloves
<worn on finger> a ring of eldritch fire
<worn on finger> a ring of eldritch fire
<wielding twohanded> an ancient mithril hammer (magic)
<worn on legs> taut leggings of flayed fire giant skin (magic)
<worn on feet> a pair of boots embroidered with a falcon
My hit/dam is 17/14 w/bless. i can hit most mobs consistently, and my weapon procs alot ..
my hps are at 944 before vit at the moment
[This message has been edited by Ebgar (edited 01-14-2003).]
<worn on head> the ancient crown of thunderous divinity (magic) (glowing)
<worn on eyes> a purple silk eyepatch (magic)
<worn in ear> a diamondine earring (magic)
<worn in ear> a diamondine earring (magic)
<worn on face> a glittering golden mask (magic)
<worn around neck> a malevolent darkstone amulet (magic)
<worn around neck> a malevolent darkstone amulet (magic)
<worn on body> elaborate dragonscale robes (magic)
<worn about body> the mantle of knowledge (magic)
<worn as quiver> an eelskin quiver (illuminating)
<worn about waist> a belt encrusted with black sapphires (magic)
<worn on arms> starsilver chainmail sleeves (magic)
<worn around wrist> an arm band of the sylphs (magic)
<worn around wrist> an arm band of the sylphs (magic)
<worn on hands> a pair of taut ogrehide gloves
<worn on finger> a ring of eldritch fire
<worn on finger> a ring of eldritch fire
<wielding twohanded> an ancient mithril hammer (magic)
<worn on legs> taut leggings of flayed fire giant skin (magic)
<worn on feet> a pair of boots embroidered with a falcon
My hit/dam is 17/14 w/bless. i can hit most mobs consistently, and my weapon procs alot ..
my hps are at 944 before vit at the moment[This message has been edited by Ebgar (edited 01-14-2003).]
Oh my god. I see that there is much work for me to do.. Today I have 800-900 hps w/vit. And I'm not even close to that hit/dmg Ebgar.
On the other hand, I'll see what I can do about the hitter gear on my cleric.
We had a discussion about this earler (as is somewhat mentioned in Rylans post above) where we talked about an item that would be perm haste but cleric only or something like it..
Thoughts?
Zolthorrific!
------------------
Omg! Malacar is owned!
On the other hand, I'll see what I can do about the hitter gear on my cleric.
We had a discussion about this earler (as is somewhat mentioned in Rylans post above) where we talked about an item that would be perm haste but cleric only or something like it..
Thoughts?
Zolthorrific!
------------------
Omg! Malacar is owned!
I'm with amber on this one...
Melee damage in zones is so insignificant, whats the point? How is spending time on a class that should be casting most of the time worth it? To help twink an alt with easier solo exps? I don't see it as being much help in a zone (oh great why did you group rylan, he doesn't heal, he tries to kill with his 2 attacks a round). Far greater issues need to be addressed
Melee damage in zones is so insignificant, whats the point? How is spending time on a class that should be casting most of the time worth it? To help twink an alt with easier solo exps?
I don't see it as being much help in a zone (oh great why did you group rylan, he doesn't heal, he tries to kill with his 2 attacks a round). Far greater issues need to be addressed I'm not as well set as Ebgar, but I wear
Stronmaus
Psilk
Waters
Tiny Golden
GG Mask
Darkstone
Neckguard
Ringmail
Mantle
Roots Belt
Starsilver sleeves
Slyph Band
Slyph Band
Raven Talons
Eldritch
Eldritch
Skullsmasher
Flayed Leggings
Falcon Boots
764hps unvitted and 17/8 with bless. Obviously I do almost no damage, but in a game that is based entirely upon imagining that these lines of ansi'd text mean something it's cool to picture me swinging this huge hammer. And to see it glow and crash into something, sometimes hard enough to knock it over.
Sure makes it worth sacrificing those 89hp and a few saves for.
Ashemiem Autumnmoon
Warrior-Priest of Corellon
------------------
Mplor group-says 'dugmaren must be very proud... he levels us up in smoke and de-levels us in muspelheim'
Stronmaus
Psilk
Waters
Tiny Golden
GG Mask
Darkstone
Neckguard
Ringmail
Mantle
Roots Belt
Starsilver sleeves
Slyph Band
Slyph Band
Raven Talons
Eldritch
Eldritch
Skullsmasher
Flayed Leggings
Falcon Boots
764hps unvitted and 17/8 with bless. Obviously I do almost no damage, but in a game that is based entirely upon imagining that these lines of ansi'd text mean something it's cool to picture me swinging this huge hammer. And to see it glow and crash into something, sometimes hard enough to knock it over.
Sure makes it worth sacrificing those 89hp and a few saves for.
Ashemiem Autumnmoon
Warrior-Priest of Corellon
------------------
Mplor group-says 'dugmaren must be very proud... he levels us up in smoke and de-levels us in muspelheim'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wargo:
<B>I have no idea what you guys are complaining about...
divinity crown + icicle cloak + skullsmasher + bless + vipermind = 26hit/14dam
That is still maintaining 1k+hp and -100ac
Just because you can't hit, doesn't mean clerics in general can't
Yssilk</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hate to break it to you but clerics in general don't have Divinity Crown and Vipermind.
------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A star rushes past, to crash upon the shore
But the first of many many more
Stoke the fire and stout bar the door
For this is the night mages go to war.
(Elminster: The making of a mage)
<B>I have no idea what you guys are complaining about...
divinity crown + icicle cloak + skullsmasher + bless + vipermind = 26hit/14dam
That is still maintaining 1k+hp and -100ac
Just because you can't hit, doesn't mean clerics in general can't
Yssilk</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hate to break it to you but clerics in general don't have Divinity Crown and Vipermind.
------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A star rushes past, to crash upon the shore
But the first of many many more
Stoke the fire and stout bar the door
For this is the night mages go to war.
(Elminster: The making of a mage)
Belle:
As a cleric in zone, with good enchanters and another cleric (you often go with more then one cleric for any major zone.) all you are stuck with is "vit me, heal me, bless/armor me, realm me, dm me and in extreme cases: ress me". You don't have to heal every fight, and most of the times you don't have to heal more then once or twice a fight. (Unless your fighting a hardass zone). This leaves cleric to:
A) Sit around waiting for your tanks stone/dscale to drop (or if your lucky, the tanks vit goes down! Woho!) before your service is needed.
B) Chat, (I wouldn't recommed this to anyone tho, chatting while prime healing a group is most likely resulting in you getting to ress somebody.)
C) Or, be a battle cleric and accually knock that miffo on his ass every round now and then with a skullsmasher.
The time that clerics "sit around" is bigger then you think. Unless you are solo healing CC with a group of 8 people. Then you might not wanna start hitting things.
I think that clerics should get some hitter skills. It should affect you as a character (lower hps, lower saves due to loss of held item/earrings/armor etc.) and not your group.
I'm not saying bring 3 clerics for Jot because you are only gonna have 1 healing anyway. More something other to do while waiting around.. Why not just hit a mob or 5?
Note, this is not a bash at you Bell, I'm just questioning what you wrote from my own POW.
/ Zolth /
Hibbidy group-says 'Zolthorrific!'
As a cleric in zone, with good enchanters and another cleric (you often go with more then one cleric for any major zone.) all you are stuck with is "vit me, heal me, bless/armor me, realm me, dm me and in extreme cases: ress me". You don't have to heal every fight, and most of the times you don't have to heal more then once or twice a fight. (Unless your fighting a hardass zone). This leaves cleric to:
A) Sit around waiting for your tanks stone/dscale to drop (or if your lucky, the tanks vit goes down! Woho!) before your service is needed.
B) Chat, (I wouldn't recommed this to anyone tho, chatting while prime healing a group is most likely resulting in you getting to ress somebody.)
C) Or, be a battle cleric and accually knock that miffo on his ass every round now and then with a skullsmasher.
The time that clerics "sit around" is bigger then you think. Unless you are solo healing CC with a group of 8 people. Then you might not wanna start hitting things.
I think that clerics should get some hitter skills. It should affect you as a character (lower hps, lower saves due to loss of held item/earrings/armor etc.) and not your group.
I'm not saying bring 3 clerics for Jot because you are only gonna have 1 healing anyway. More something other to do while waiting around.. Why not just hit a mob or 5?
Note, this is not a bash at you Bell, I'm just questioning what you wrote from my own POW.
/ Zolth /
Hibbidy group-says 'Zolthorrific!'
You already get the most uber spell in the game... why would you want anything beyond Earthquake? Goat-boy?
Hey fine give them weapons, just lets not take the next step and think they should actually be doing any damage in combat (imho they shouldn't even engage in combat in real zones (jot,crypts.brass are not real zones anymore) where kill lag could kill groupies). And while your at it I guess you'll have to code new better procing weapons for mages, because by god we shouldn't make distictions between classes nowdays or someone might get upset!
Grumpy,
Belle
Hey fine give them weapons, just lets not take the next step and think they should actually be doing any damage in combat (imho they shouldn't even engage in combat in real zones (jot,crypts.brass are not real zones anymore) where kill lag could kill groupies). And while your at it I guess you'll have to code new better procing weapons for mages, because by god we shouldn't make distictions between classes nowdays or someone might get upset!
Grumpy,
Belle
Bell,
Heh, I agree with you somewhat.. Jot/Brass/Crypts aren't really rough zones nowdays.. However, Clouds/Smoke invasion is (somewhat, you got the ingredience needed to cook up some cool spank there..).
I don't agree with you when it comes to clerics not assissting in combat. I know we can't compare Soj3. to AD&D.. But then again, clerics are supposed to be warriorpriests.. What we are trying to talk about here is why clerics have been put into healers only. Nothing else. Fine, let's just stand there with 1k hps and heal people. It dosen't make much sense to me.
I think there should be some various to the class cleric like with Warriors/Rangers.
Warriors can shift from wearing amys, dual/2h/shield etc. (Hps -> hit mode and back) to improve their hit/dmg AC or AC Hps. = more variation to their class.
Rangers can shift from dualwielding to shield/2h/bow and minor spells (give or take) and to improve their Hps/hit/dmg and AC. = more variation to their class.
Clerics can shift from held Hp items to uhm, shield (I'm not saying that they should have bash skill heh, but we can upper our AC with shields) but not much more. Clerics can't do jack with a weapon. We're not even fun with cool shit and a skullsmasher/rockcrusher and a bard hasting us. We can however heal better then any other class in the game and cast resurrect. (Ress isn't a part of this discussion since we're talking about clerics and other classes engaged in combat.)
Again Bell. I'm NOT bashing/slaming you with this post. I'm trying to point out that the cleric class isn't as various and fun as it could be.
I love playing a cleric. I love to have the ability to ress people that died and bring some happiness back to losing exp from dying. What I don't like is that this is pretty much all I can do with a class that is dying.. There isn't as many of us clerics around anymore.. And I'd want to see more n00bs playing clerics since it's a very fun class to play..
-Z
------------------
- "Every problem in the univers can be solved with Malacar, ducktape and potato chips.."
Heh, I agree with you somewhat.. Jot/Brass/Crypts aren't really rough zones nowdays.. However, Clouds/Smoke invasion is (somewhat, you got the ingredience needed to cook up some cool spank there..).
I don't agree with you when it comes to clerics not assissting in combat. I know we can't compare Soj3. to AD&D.. But then again, clerics are supposed to be warriorpriests.. What we are trying to talk about here is why clerics have been put into healers only. Nothing else. Fine, let's just stand there with 1k hps and heal people. It dosen't make much sense to me.
I think there should be some various to the class cleric like with Warriors/Rangers.
Warriors can shift from wearing amys, dual/2h/shield etc. (Hps -> hit mode and back) to improve their hit/dmg AC or AC Hps. = more variation to their class.
Rangers can shift from dualwielding to shield/2h/bow and minor spells (give or take) and to improve their Hps/hit/dmg and AC. = more variation to their class.
Clerics can shift from held Hp items to uhm, shield (I'm not saying that they should have bash skill heh, but we can upper our AC with shields) but not much more. Clerics can't do jack with a weapon. We're not even fun with cool shit and a skullsmasher/rockcrusher and a bard hasting us. We can however heal better then any other class in the game and cast resurrect. (Ress isn't a part of this discussion since we're talking about clerics and other classes engaged in combat.)
Again Bell. I'm NOT bashing/slaming you with this post. I'm trying to point out that the cleric class isn't as various and fun as it could be.
I love playing a cleric. I love to have the ability to ress people that died and bring some happiness back to losing exp from dying. What I don't like is that this is pretty much all I can do with a class that is dying.. There isn't as many of us clerics around anymore.. And I'd want to see more n00bs playing clerics since it's a very fun class to play..
-Z
------------------
- "Every problem in the univers can be solved with Malacar, ducktape and potato chips.."
Hmm, that's true.. But then again, that is more up to the cleric in question. I don't belive that we would see an huge increase of soloing if you gave clerics a fair chance of hitting and accually hurting something..
I would much rather have a 50 Illusionist or Druid then a 50 cleric to solo with.. (that's with a cleric that can accually do some decent dmg besides full tickle.)
-Z
------------------
- "Every problem in the univers can be solved with Malacar, ducktape and potato chips.."
I would much rather have a 50 Illusionist or Druid then a 50 cleric to solo with.. (that's with a cleric that can accually do some decent dmg besides full tickle.)
-Z
------------------
- "Every problem in the univers can be solved with Malacar, ducktape and potato chips.."
-
Chandigar2
- Sojourner
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:01 am
Heh heh I don't think semi-boring stuff is restricted just to clerics. My job in zones is pretty much
group glance
displace all
surf the net
and occasionally:
fold to runner
I demand mages get +hit and hp combined eq! And make rockcrusher mageable! Mages should be able to get elven chainmail to up ac and still allow casting! Hell, Gandalf wielded a sword!
Seriously tho.. you guys have more than enough weapon toys to play with compared to the mage classes, I don't think you need a whole buncha weapon-lovin'.
In the grand scheme of things, you can have higher ac and more hps and better weapons than mages, but less than warriors. That sounds about right to me.
group glance
displace all
surf the net
and occasionally:
fold to runner
I demand mages get +hit and hp combined eq! And make rockcrusher mageable! Mages should be able to get elven chainmail to up ac and still allow casting! Hell, Gandalf wielded a sword!
Seriously tho.. you guys have more than enough weapon toys to play with compared to the mage classes, I don't think you need a whole buncha weapon-lovin'.
In the grand scheme of things, you can have higher ac and more hps and better weapons than mages, but less than warriors. That sounds about right to me.
so grab yer skullsmasher and run to smoke (yep i use mine there) .. take an invoker with you and use your melee :P
i ASSUME we have those 1100+ hps(yeah yeah my baby dooger has close to 1100 hps vitted) to stay alive when everyone else dies cause we are using melee instead of healing:P
if you want to heal AND deal damage play a shaman since i cant play mine (wooowooo no more Ogre memtimes!!!)
------------------
Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
i ASSUME we have those 1100+ hps(yeah yeah my baby dooger has close to 1100 hps vitted) to stay alive when everyone else dies cause we are using melee instead of healing:P
if you want to heal AND deal damage play a shaman since i cant play mine (wooowooo no more Ogre memtimes!!!)
------------------
Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
I don't agree with you Chandigar.
You got offensives like hex etc. Clerics do not.
Think about it from an Invokers P.O.W:
You start fight with nuking, when you are casting you can't hit in melee.
When your done casting offensives you have to mem. That means that you leave the room to mem up. No fighting their eighter.
You re-enter and assisst to not misstarget and hit a non-aggro mob. You get assisst/kill lag for this (innitial 1 attack btw.) Then you start casting.. Repeat.
Why on earth should an Invoker get a weapon to wield when you aren't even dealing out attacks?
I can't say that this goes for all magic sub-classes (Illusionist, Enchanter etc.) but it goes a long way.
This is the scenario for a cleric if you are fighting a !casting mob:
Fight engaged by tank, warrior.
Cleric assissts. (At this point, cleric has the option of cursing/blinding the target, but Sandblast is better since it's one of the primary nukes for Invokers.)
Cleric stands there until tank hits few wounds and makes sure that noone is getting raped by another aggro in same room or that the tank loses his vitality.
Cleric heals tank at few wounds (about 15-30 rounds later) since an Enchanters stone/dragonscales is taking up the biggest impact of all the damage made.
Cleric awaits death of mob or goes out to be fully prayed for the next mob.
Cleric repeats condition of the mob to make sure that everyone is in the room to take part from the kill exp of the mob.
Repeat.
When standing there.. We deal out 1 hit/round w/o haste. Given a weapon and the ability to wear hit/dmg we could accually have a blast laughing when rockcrusher/headsmasher proc's.
One of the main reasons to why clerics hates exp is that it is boring (like every other people we experience this.. maybe even worse except for maybe Enchanters that has a rougher exp-table.)
-Z
------------------
- "Every problem in the univers can be solved with Malacar, ducktape and potato chips.."
You got offensives like hex etc. Clerics do not.
Think about it from an Invokers P.O.W:
You start fight with nuking, when you are casting you can't hit in melee.
When your done casting offensives you have to mem. That means that you leave the room to mem up. No fighting their eighter.
You re-enter and assisst to not misstarget and hit a non-aggro mob. You get assisst/kill lag for this (innitial 1 attack btw.) Then you start casting.. Repeat.
Why on earth should an Invoker get a weapon to wield when you aren't even dealing out attacks?
I can't say that this goes for all magic sub-classes (Illusionist, Enchanter etc.) but it goes a long way.
This is the scenario for a cleric if you are fighting a !casting mob:
Fight engaged by tank, warrior.
Cleric assissts. (At this point, cleric has the option of cursing/blinding the target, but Sandblast is better since it's one of the primary nukes for Invokers.)
Cleric stands there until tank hits few wounds and makes sure that noone is getting raped by another aggro in same room or that the tank loses his vitality.
Cleric heals tank at few wounds (about 15-30 rounds later) since an Enchanters stone/dragonscales is taking up the biggest impact of all the damage made.
Cleric awaits death of mob or goes out to be fully prayed for the next mob.
Cleric repeats condition of the mob to make sure that everyone is in the room to take part from the kill exp of the mob.
Repeat.
When standing there.. We deal out 1 hit/round w/o haste. Given a weapon and the ability to wear hit/dmg we could accually have a blast laughing when rockcrusher/headsmasher proc's.
One of the main reasons to why clerics hates exp is that it is boring (like every other people we experience this.. maybe even worse except for maybe Enchanters that has a rougher exp-table.)
-Z
------------------
- "Every problem in the univers can be solved with Malacar, ducktape and potato chips.."
::cough::
Rogue experience is boring. Circle, circle, circle, circle, follow, follow, circle, circle, circle, circle. We get great damage experience, yes, but we don't do anything different, unless we trip, and then it's constantly trip, trip, trip, trip, follow, follow, trip, trip, trip, trip, or go back to circling if the mob's blind/silenced. ALL experience is boring, but casters have much more to do Being able to do damage isn't going to make it any more exciting, trust me. After all, you don't have to do anything but assist in order to be a hitter, it's all the other aspects of each class that make it fun.
Rogue experience is boring. Circle, circle, circle, circle, follow, follow, circle, circle, circle, circle. We get great damage experience, yes, but we don't do anything different, unless we trip, and then it's constantly trip, trip, trip, trip, follow, follow, trip, trip, trip, trip, or go back to circling if the mob's blind/silenced. ALL experience is boring, but casters have much more to do Being able to do damage isn't going to make it any more exciting, trust me. After all, you don't have to do anything but assist in order to be a hitter, it's all the other aspects of each class that make it fun.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ambar:
<B>sure ya wanna wield a weapon but why???
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because clerics aren't just "healers" clerics are fighters as well. So why not be able to use weapons and sheilds? HP gear is nice and useful, but as a "cleric" I like to appear of this class; especially since my character represents the God of War, Tempus. So I agree, we SHOULD have a wider selection of bludgeon weapons and shields for clerics. I dunno, I rather dress up what I represent, hence I dont use nebulas as most do, I wield my mace. *raises her mace in the air and ROARS* - I dont know if any of you have ever played 3rd edition AD&D; but even some clerics (depending which diety they worship) are allowed to even use swords. But I see this mud is based on 2nd. 
So I guess my statement about 3rd is null here. I
Hey - I think clerics should get some kind of bonus for worshipping dieties. A cool lil nifty package. For instance: If I worship Tempus, which I do, why not have the ability to wield a sword? *stare* Then again, I like to crush foes or bash em over the head with a bludgeon anyway. *BIG GRIN*
Sun
<B>sure ya wanna wield a weapon but why???
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because clerics aren't just "healers" clerics are fighters as well. So why not be able to use weapons and sheilds?
HP gear is nice and useful, but as a "cleric" I like to appear of this class; especially since my character represents the God of War, Tempus. So I agree, we SHOULD have a wider selection of bludgeon weapons and shields for clerics. I dunno, I rather dress up what I represent, hence I dont use nebulas as most do, I wield my mace. *raises her mace in the air and ROARS* - I dont know if any of you have ever played 3rd edition AD&D; but even some clerics (depending which diety they worship) are allowed to even use swords. But I see this mud is based on 2nd. So I guess my statement about 3rd is null here. IHey - I think clerics should get some kind of bonus for worshipping dieties. A cool lil nifty package. For instance: If I worship Tempus, which I do, why not have the ability to wield a sword? *stare* Then again, I like to crush foes or bash em over the head with a bludgeon anyway. *BIG GRIN*
Sun
The assumption that a cleric who wishes to melee will be doing so at the expenxe of their primary duty is faulty. I do not want to become a hitter who can heal. I want to be a healer who has a chance to hit and throw a little bit extra into the mix.
If a group member is down hps, I see a mob start casting a cloud, I will not attempt to melee it and hope skullsmasher knocks him down. I will cast a full heal on the injured party member, and when the spell lands shrug and continue healing.
But Zolth said it well; there IS a fair amount of down time as a cleric in a lot of fights. Time when I'm typing group and glancing at people, but aside from maintenance checking I'm not needed to cast anything. The benefit to melee over full tickle is that I don't have to abort melee to cast a quick heal if necessary.
A possible difference to consider between mages melee'ing and clerics using melee is that clerics can get decent weapon skills (80 I think?) and also have the offense skill. Hence it is obviously not outside of concept that a cleric will engage in melee and cause some damage, provided they can land a blow. I don't believe mages get this skill (offense), and thus for them melee is much more of a novelty.
Have more thoughts, but I'm at work and gotta scoot. More later :P
Ashemiem Autumnmoon
Warrior-Priest of Corellon
------------------
Mplor group-says 'dugmaren must be very proud... he levels us up in smoke and de-levels us in muspelheim'
If a group member is down hps, I see a mob start casting a cloud, I will not attempt to melee it and hope skullsmasher knocks him down. I will cast a full heal on the injured party member, and when the spell lands shrug and continue healing.
But Zolth said it well; there IS a fair amount of down time as a cleric in a lot of fights. Time when I'm typing group and glancing at people, but aside from maintenance checking I'm not needed to cast anything. The benefit to melee over full tickle is that I don't have to abort melee to cast a quick heal if necessary.
A possible difference to consider between mages melee'ing and clerics using melee is that clerics can get decent weapon skills (80 I think?) and also have the offense skill. Hence it is obviously not outside of concept that a cleric will engage in melee and cause some damage, provided they can land a blow. I don't believe mages get this skill (offense), and thus for them melee is much more of a novelty.
Have more thoughts, but I'm at work and gotta scoot. More later :P
Ashemiem Autumnmoon
Warrior-Priest of Corellon
------------------
Mplor group-says 'dugmaren must be very proud... he levels us up in smoke and de-levels us in muspelheim'
whoohoo...I get to mention my pretty rose quartz mace, course it doesn't really do anything, or have anything flashy like, it just kinda sits there, looking pinkish...
But then...who needs something that actually DOES anything when all clerics are meant to do is heal. come to think of it, I don't think we have ANYTHING that just looks neat...well...flamestrike does, but any cleric knows not to get into that topic, it's a spell not even worth remembering.
However, and I could be wrong, most classes have two main things they are good for, even if the second is significantly less than the first. For instance, enchanters are thought of as 'the stoners/globers' generally, yet they carry important things they do too, such as PWB, prism, etc...not like classes that focus on things like that, but they can come in handy and make things a little more interesting, plus..prism...very flashy and fun :P
Shamans, they get pets...sweet things they are too...and then calling upon the ancients and such, it's just darned neat.
Warriors...I admit, you're a meatshield, but you can use really neat swords that get all flashy too :P and you can have more than one kind, or heck, go for the bludgeon weapons too, daggers, so many neat toys...
The point is, you go into almost every class, and there is never just one thing that they do, even if they don't use thier other abilities that much concerning casters, they are there, and can be used, can be fun, and can actually be useful from time to time.
Time and time again, there are postings concerning clerics and how our spells seem to be ignored and mostly downright dull to use, and they may be useful, but they are just that, dull. There's no flashiness, no pretty colors, no neat lil things saying ooo...lookie what this cleric just did.
Yes, we do get ress, which people have come to expect, not appreciate most of the time, and we heal. Which is wonderful, we do our good deads for our dieties, if we choose to have one at all. But as far as the playing goes, it's silly to see things that many 20 levels under some of us kill almost instantly
something that full harm can seem to barely scratch. Hm...seems their god was really helping them then.
I've learned to live with the fact that cleric spells may never get changed, that's life, go on...but it's disappointing. However, the idea that we might actually be able to help in a way other than hoping to see the tank hurt just so we can heal, sounds like a good idea. Even if it's something so little as letting us have a few neater weapons that might actually do something. Doesn't mean I'd completely drop my mace, cause well...I like the silly mostly pointless thing, I can even kill one of those rats under EM with it in just 2 rounds sometimes without casting a spell on them.
But if we were able to do SOMETHING other than stand around, which yes, we tend to do that quite often against our will yet we can't go afk incase something happens. And it seems like that is all we are really there for is 'incase something happens' most of the time.
It just seems like letting us have something like a couple of neat weapons and just a little more ability (instead of almost none at all) to use them better might make up for the things that many seem to notice lacking in the rest of the class.
------------------
Oshy
Twilight Raven
But then...who needs something that actually DOES anything when all clerics are meant to do is heal. come to think of it, I don't think we have ANYTHING that just looks neat...well...flamestrike does, but any cleric knows not to get into that topic, it's a spell not even worth remembering.
However, and I could be wrong, most classes have two main things they are good for, even if the second is significantly less than the first. For instance, enchanters are thought of as 'the stoners/globers' generally, yet they carry important things they do too, such as PWB, prism, etc...not like classes that focus on things like that, but they can come in handy and make things a little more interesting, plus..prism...very flashy and fun :P
Shamans, they get pets...sweet things they are too...and then calling upon the ancients and such, it's just darned neat.
Warriors...I admit, you're a meatshield, but you can use really neat swords that get all flashy too :P and you can have more than one kind, or heck, go for the bludgeon weapons too, daggers, so many neat toys...
The point is, you go into almost every class, and there is never just one thing that they do, even if they don't use thier other abilities that much concerning casters, they are there, and can be used, can be fun, and can actually be useful from time to time.
Time and time again, there are postings concerning clerics and how our spells seem to be ignored and mostly downright dull to use, and they may be useful, but they are just that, dull. There's no flashiness, no pretty colors, no neat lil things saying ooo...lookie what this cleric just did.
Yes, we do get ress, which people have come to expect, not appreciate most of the time, and we heal. Which is wonderful, we do our good deads for our dieties, if we choose to have one at all. But as far as the playing goes, it's silly to see things that many 20 levels under some of us kill almost instantly
something that full harm can seem to barely scratch. Hm...seems their god was really helping them then.
I've learned to live with the fact that cleric spells may never get changed, that's life, go on...but it's disappointing. However, the idea that we might actually be able to help in a way other than hoping to see the tank hurt just so we can heal, sounds like a good idea. Even if it's something so little as letting us have a few neater weapons that might actually do something. Doesn't mean I'd completely drop my mace, cause well...I like the silly mostly pointless thing, I can even kill one of those rats under EM with it in just 2 rounds sometimes without casting a spell on them.
But if we were able to do SOMETHING other than stand around, which yes, we tend to do that quite often against our will yet we can't go afk incase something happens. And it seems like that is all we are really there for is 'incase something happens' most of the time.
It just seems like letting us have something like a couple of neat weapons and just a little more ability (instead of almost none at all) to use them better might make up for the things that many seem to notice lacking in the rest of the class.
------------------
Oshy
Twilight Raven
Clerics were given a boost to their bludgeoning skills and the offense skills this wipe for a reason. The tia priest item also has 7 hit on it for a reason. Some god obviously thought it would be interesting for clerics to try to hit occasionally if they wanted to. While the lack of double attack or dual wield means that clerics will never be significant sources of melee damage, having some clericable weapons with decent procs (read useful effects, not just straight damage) would make them more varied if they wanted to go that route.
------------------
You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
------------------
You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
-
Chandigar2
- Sojourner
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:01 am
I don't wanna get into an argument so I'll just reiterate. Clerics already get some pretty decent weapons, the fact that you're wielding skullsmasher attests to that. I dunno if you're looking for a cleric only twilight, but its not like you're forced to use stone daggers all the time.
Once again, on average there's higher ac clericable gear, higher hit/dam and dice clericable weapons, and more clericable hit/dam gear than mages. So you're on the totem pole between mages and warriors. That sounds about right. Its your choice to dress up like a mage with all hp gear.
If you want ansi, I'm sure one god can put in some cleric weapon with 5 lines of ansi spam that does nothing.
Oh and as for flashy spells, a person on the receiving end of a ress probably finds that spell pretty awesome
As for stuff that you can do better than any other class:
heal
vit
ress
Would you trade any of that for better melee?
Once again, on average there's higher ac clericable gear, higher hit/dam and dice clericable weapons, and more clericable hit/dam gear than mages. So you're on the totem pole between mages and warriors. That sounds about right. Its your choice to dress up like a mage with all hp gear.
If you want ansi, I'm sure one god can put in some cleric weapon with 5 lines of ansi spam that does nothing.
Oh and as for flashy spells, a person on the receiving end of a ress probably finds that spell pretty awesome
As for stuff that you can do better than any other class:
heal
vit
ress
Would you trade any of that for better melee?
No Chandigar. I would not trade that for melee.
Tell me, would you care to trade all your niffty spells for melee? No? Then why should a mage wield a weapon?
The reason to why we want to wield is because we want to lower the boring time of the class Cleric both during exp and after exp. (level 50+) when zoning/questing perm.
Yes, skullsmasher/rockcrushers are a funky weapons, I agree with that, but have you trided to get a hold of one? If you don't know how to get them yourself.. well, then your in for a big hassle. A hassle that n00bs aren't ready to go through to achive some funky hitting in combat.
Treladian,
As goes for priest-eq in Tiamat, I'm convinced that you are correct about the stats are upped with a couple of hitroll. However, the items from that zone is very rare in the game. Before I quit playing (3-4 months ago due to RL) I had decent eq for a Cleric. Not the absolute top notch (Poke Ebgar) but better then most Clerics (both Hps and hit/dmg wise) and I wasn't even close to Tiamat eq. I belive that we could count on one hand the volo boots out there in the game, as well as the crown Ebgar is wearing..
I don't want this thread to go from giving Clerics something funky to do in battle -> something that only the privileged Clerics of level 50 with rocking eq should get. I want to see Clerics get a face lift so that n00bs starts playing them as well and are enjoying more then just after level 31 when they get full heal.
-Z-
Again, I do not mean to slam/bash the people I've mentioned by name in this post. I'm simply arguing. Thanks.
------------------
- "Every problem in the univers can be solved with Malacar, ducktape and potato chips.."
Tell me, would you care to trade all your niffty spells for melee? No? Then why should a mage wield a weapon?
The reason to why we want to wield is because we want to lower the boring time of the class Cleric both during exp and after exp. (level 50+) when zoning/questing perm.
Yes, skullsmasher/rockcrushers are a funky weapons, I agree with that, but have you trided to get a hold of one? If you don't know how to get them yourself.. well, then your in for a big hassle. A hassle that n00bs aren't ready to go through to achive some funky hitting in combat.
Treladian,
As goes for priest-eq in Tiamat, I'm convinced that you are correct about the stats are upped with a couple of hitroll. However, the items from that zone is very rare in the game. Before I quit playing (3-4 months ago due to RL) I had decent eq for a Cleric. Not the absolute top notch (Poke Ebgar) but better then most Clerics (both Hps and hit/dmg wise) and I wasn't even close to Tiamat eq. I belive that we could count on one hand the volo boots out there in the game, as well as the crown Ebgar is wearing..
I don't want this thread to go from giving Clerics something funky to do in battle -> something that only the privileged Clerics of level 50 with rocking eq should get. I want to see Clerics get a face lift so that n00bs starts playing them as well and are enjoying more then just after level 31 when they get full heal.
-Z-
Again, I do not mean to slam/bash the people I've mentioned by name in this post. I'm simply arguing. Thanks.
------------------
- "Every problem in the univers can be solved with Malacar, ducktape and potato chips.."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashemiem:
<B>I'm not as well set as Ebgar, but I wear
Stronmaus
Psilk
Waters
Tiny Golden
GG Mask
Darkstone
Neckguard
Ringmail
Mantle
Roots Belt
Starsilver sleeves
Slyph Band
Slyph Band
Raven Talons
Eldritch
Eldritch
Skullsmasher
Flayed Leggings
Falcon Boots
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1k headband
winds earring
winds earring
silk tattoo
etched visor
neckguard
neckguard
starsilver plate
mantle
roots belt
starsilver sleeves
silver band
silver band
raven talons
eldritch
eldritch
elemental orb
elemental orb
flayed legs
falcon boots
I am a shaman, but its cleric class eq...point being, theres no reason for a cleric to be a dammage or weapon wielding class, I guess its a whole other world soloing as a cleric rather than a shaman, but I still dont think your melee would matter that much, since
most of your time is spent spellcasting anyway
g
------------------
Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
<B>I'm not as well set as Ebgar, but I wear
Stronmaus
Psilk
Waters
Tiny Golden
GG Mask
Darkstone
Neckguard
Ringmail
Mantle
Roots Belt
Starsilver sleeves
Slyph Band
Slyph Band
Raven Talons
Eldritch
Eldritch
Skullsmasher
Flayed Leggings
Falcon Boots
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1k headband
winds earring
winds earring
silk tattoo
etched visor
neckguard
neckguard
starsilver plate
mantle
roots belt
starsilver sleeves
silver band
silver band
raven talons
eldritch
eldritch
elemental orb
elemental orb
flayed legs
falcon boots
I am a shaman, but its cleric class eq...point being, theres no reason for a cleric to be a dammage or weapon wielding class, I guess its a whole other world soloing as a cleric rather than a shaman, but I still dont think your melee would matter that much, since
most of your time is spent spellcasting anyway
g
------------------
Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
Gerad,
Shaman, Clerics and Druids have pretty much the same sets of eq yes. But the simillaritys pretty much stops there as well.
Clerics dosen't have the Shamans pet (Spirit) or the Druids pet (Treant), we do not have anything to cast like ancestrial fury nor doom etc. We have full heal instead of just normal heals like Druids/Shamans.
I'm not having this discussion to make Clerics a force to recogn with in combat. We just don't want to stand around assissting a warrior and just wait.. wait, wait, wait. We are asking for some divercity to our class. Not to make them overpowered.
-Z-
------------------
- "Every problem in the univers can be solved with Malacar, ducktape and potato chips.."
Shaman, Clerics and Druids have pretty much the same sets of eq yes. But the simillaritys pretty much stops there as well.
Clerics dosen't have the Shamans pet (Spirit) or the Druids pet (Treant), we do not have anything to cast like ancestrial fury nor doom etc. We have full heal instead of just normal heals like Druids/Shamans.
I'm not having this discussion to make Clerics a force to recogn with in combat. We just don't want to stand around assissting a warrior and just wait.. wait, wait, wait. We are asking for some divercity to our class. Not to make them overpowered.
-Z-
------------------
- "Every problem in the univers can be solved with Malacar, ducktape and potato chips.."
So what exactly is it that you're looking for? Hit/dam and hps equipment? What is it that would give you exactly what you want? Do you really want me to whip out my hitpoints and wow the masses yet again? You do realize there's hit/dam gear out there you can wear if you want to sacrifice on some of the rest, right? And what's wrong with Skullsmasher? For the longest time I had one dagger which had a decent proc and was useable by me ... and daggers are what my class does. Are your choices really all that limited?
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