Thoughts, Ideas, or just plain crap.

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Arilin Nydelahar
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Thoughts, Ideas, or just plain crap.

Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Jan 23, 2003 3:44 pm

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that thing, from that place that loads in that area I need is, and wants. Well, most people. But, I pose a question. The entire point for necromancers, is to eventually go lich, correct? I seriously doubt i'll see anyone stay necromancers for vamp curse by their own choices. So, the question is as follows:

What is the point of forcing people to wait around to truly finish out their class? I know it's supposed to be a hard quest. But waiting for a rare isn't hard. It's annoying. Really, really, annoying. And yeah, i'm sure most of the people who respond to this thread will call me a whiner, which is fine. But atleast think about what I said. It's a huge world of difference between hard, and annoying. I'd prefer it be hard, than sitting around 120+ hours waiting for a mob, so I can enjoy my class the way i've wanted to since level 1.

Maybe i'm just a moron.

On a side note. Possibily adjust the rare percentage of particlar mobs to go with the boots. We tend to have 40+ hour uptime boots. That makes it ungodly annoying when the mob is set as a 10% rare or something.(I'm guessing at his percentage.) I'm not saying everything, but rares that are important to _class_ specific people. Not for the equipment.

So yeah, feel free to respond and flame. All I ask is you put a little thought into your replies.

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-Arilin Nydelahar
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Postby belleshel » Thu Jan 23, 2003 3:58 pm

The whole point of rares is to make quests harder to do, take longer.

I guess I just have one simple question:
Why should a class specific quest be more important than an equipment related one? (most equipment quests are in fact class specific) They are both optional.
Curious,
Belle
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by belleshel:
<B>The whole point of rares is to make quests harder to do, take longer.

I guess I just have one simple question:
Why should a class specific quest be more important than an equipment related one? (most equipment quests are in fact class specific) They are both optional.
Curious,
Belle</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You miss my point, do you really think making a mob rare makes the quest hard? I highly disagree with you. It makes it annoying. (In my humble opinion anyway).

I don't view this rare as hard. The fight will be pretty easy when it loads. But it's dammed annoying.

Why for specific classes? Why not? You shouldn't really have to wait weeks for a spell, or for something your class has and you _need_. And if you think questing Lich is only an option, you level up a necromancer and play it, and never lich.

You don't really NEED netheril bracelets do you? No, I'm pretty sure we could find some real easy to get ones that are loaded with ac so you could have 100ac. Or even just alot of hitroll. You don't NEED that to play your char. You want it. The whole reason I'm a necromancer is to become a lich. It's the only reason I played the class, flat out.

Edited to add a point.

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-Arilin Nydelahar
...Knowledge is power, and knowledge of life and death brings power over all beings, living and unliving.

[This message has been edited by Arilin Nydelahar (edited 01-23-2003).]
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Postby asamoth » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:16 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Arilin Nydelahar:
<B>
You miss my point, do you really think making a mob rare makes the quest hard? I highly disagree with you. It makes it annoying. (In my humble opinion anyway).
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It makes it hard if you aren't following a walkthrough provided by someone else. *cough*

If the lich quest is like other quests, the task of bring back "an instrument of torture" or "long handled thing" or "thing" would be difficult to solve in conjunction with a rare load, and even more difficult with our new rare global load system.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:21 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by asamoth:
<B> It makes it hard if you aren't following a walkthrough provided by someone else. *cough*

If the lich quest is like other quests, the task of bring back "an instrument of torture" or "long handled thing" or "thing" would be difficult to solve in conjunction with a rare load, and even more difficult with our new rare global load system.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Not sure if you were refering to me for that first part :P So ill clarify anyway. This is my first 50th level char on this mud, ever. I got hints in some parts of the quest when I was stuck, and yes, was told where to begin it, but for the most part, my friends and I figured it out as we went along. I've had no walkthrough :P

As for the second comment. The clue given for said item is pretty easy to figure out if you've ever seen it. Otherwise, might take a bit, but this mob isn't included in the global rare system, so that's a moot point really.

And yes, i'm in class. So I have nothing better to do than respond to this post :P Feel free to keep them coming, I got an hour and a half left. :P
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[This message has been edited by Arilin Nydelahar (edited 01-23-2003).]
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Postby Gurns » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Arilin Nydelahar:
The entire point for necromancers, is to eventually go lich, correct?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My recollection of the gods' input on this was that, no, the idea was to balance necros and liches so that some folks stayed necro and some went lich.

Though I'm not sure that really has anything to do with your argument: really rareloads are annoying, regardless.
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Postby Fripple » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:55 pm

Instead of the long drawn out response I was going to post...

I do not see an issue with the way things are with the quest, if you are singling it out from the entire games structure.

If the system as a whole (quests/rareloads/global loading/etc.) being fixed _is_ your point here, I am in favor of their being changes.


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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:14 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fripple:
<B>Instead of the long drawn out response I was going to post...

I do not see an issue with the way things are with the quest, if you are singling it out from the entire games structure.

If the system as a whole (quests/rareloads/global loading/etc.) being fixed _is_ your point here, I am in favor of their being changes.


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


My problem is with rares in general pertaining to any class specific quest. I was using my lame plight as an example of said case.

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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

As someone who's a lich, I can attest to this annoyance he's waiting for. I never actually killed this mob. I got so tired of waiting for it to load after a month and a half, that I just started loc'd the object all the time and see'n who had one, and trying to get a hold of it. Eventually someone I didn't even know had one, gave one to me. Bless his heart. It was on storage collecting dust.

This quest was made when uptimes of 40+hours were unheard of. The load percentage needs to be changed to something more regular, or change so that it works like GC rares, where the longer we are up, the more likely it loads.

I believe this object only loads at boot. Change it to load rare at regular zone repop, but only once per boot. A simple matter. 10% per repop once per boot, is a lot better then 10% per 40+ hours.

-LL

ps. I aggree with the sentiment that most quests are annoying more then they are difficult. I'd like to see quests that are hard to DO, not to figure out.
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Postby Corth » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:39 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Llaaldara:
<B>This quest was made when uptimes of 40+hours were unheard of. The load percentage needs to be changed to something more regular
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly.

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Postby Zoldren » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:49 pm

problem with "rares" not that they are hard, most of them can be solod by one class or another

the problem with rares comes that they are just that rare, with the 30-40-50+ hour boots the odds you will be on when it boots are slim, there for someone else will get the mob/item you need and you have to wait another 4 days

what i find anoying with rares more than actualy waiting for them ..

is that 1 rare is used in 3 or 4 different quests, so that 1 rare is hunted by 20 different people trying to finish those 3 or 4 quests

so we have super rare % + long boot times + multiple quests/items == your screwed unless someone wants to be nice to you

thats just my expereience though

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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:11 pm

So if questing lich is supposed to be a challenge, and as you say there is no challenge to this quest except for waiting for the annoying rareload mobs, then where's the challenge going to be when that annoyance is taken away? Isn't lich supposed to be one of the most powerful classes on the mud, or was that just undead smoke rings? Should the quest be altered at all? Or did I misread it? No offense but I've always thought going lich should be a long and painful process... how's it going to be long and painful if a good group who knows the quest can breeze through it in a quick afternoon's jaunt?
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Postby Yayaril » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:17 pm

Rare items are pretty annoying to get, but I disagree when you say that necromancers NEED to turn into a lich. The lich option is just pure frosting. (Hmm, frosting) Don't get me wrong, turning lich sounds like it'll be great fun and increase your power significantly, but necromancers are still a powerful class, even without turning into a lich.

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Postby asamoth » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:28 pm

Was more of a gripe with the whole system in general.
I know this isn't a global mob. If it was we could beat the dead equine some more.

Most of these rare loads were created in a time where a day uptime was amazing, so like Llaaldara said, something should be tweaked. Of course this whole nonloading thing goes with the slowed inlet of eq/quest to the game which gives the older pbase something to do.
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Postby Treladian » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:32 pm

Vamp curse can be a very powerful spell. But as is, I think that more necro-only spells would have to be added to make the decision of whether or not to go lich really a choice. Right now it's just a decision to get on with 8 spell quests rolled into one big quest.

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Arilin Nydelahar
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:39 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
So if questing lich is supposed to be a challenge, and as you say there is no challenge to this quest except for waiting for the annoying rareload mobs, then where's the challenge going to be when that annoyance is taken away? Isn't lich supposed to be one of the most powerful classes on the mud, or was that just undead smoke rings? Should the quest be altered at all? Or did I misread it? No offense but I've always thought going lich should be a long and painful process... how's it going to be long and painful if a good group who knows the quest can breeze through it in a quick afternoon's jaunt?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah, but look at wrote I said. It's supposed to be hard. Sitting on your duff waiting for a quest mob to load isn't hard. I would have prefered the quest BE hard, than waste my time on some lame rare. The quest has a nice story, and I won't say anything about it, but for the most part, I felt it was easy. But you got to remember as well, this is what, two years into this wipe or more? Alot of things are easy, that wouldn't have been when the first lich this wipe did it.

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Postby Yadir » Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:53 pm

I agree with Arilin et al that quest mobs/items are really annoying now with the long boot times. I've been looking for a certain item for the relo quest for over a month now. Since this is a quest done by multiple classes the problem is compounded. I log on at least twice a day to check boot, but chances are slim that I'm gonna get the item I need. I have the same problem with swarm. I know these quests - have done them several times (in previous incarnations of Soj/Toril)- but it's frustrating that I can't get the items because they are rare loads and other people are either doing the same quest or doing other quests that use the same mob/item. I don't know the solution, but wanted to add my support for something to help this problem. I like the inferno quest. Global loads mobs are one way to make the quest difficult but still doable.
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
So if questing lich is supposed to be a challenge, and as you say there is no challenge to this quest except for waiting for the annoying rareload mobs, then where's the challenge going to be when that annoyance is taken away? Isn't lich supposed to be one of the most powerful classes on the mud, or was that just undead smoke rings? Should the quest be altered at all? Or did I misread it? No offense but I've always thought going lich should be a long and painful process... how's it going to be long and painful if a good group who knows the quest can breeze through it in a quick afternoon's jaunt?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ashiwi, I'm not talking about the lich quest as a whole, just this type of circumstance. -A rare at boot only item needed for a class quest.- Going lich is a long an painful and EXPENSIVE process. It took me personally 9 months to finally lich my necro. A lot of it was waiting around for a rare to load that only loaded at boot, or blindly asking hundreds upon hundreds of mobs trying to figure out the quest. No, I didn't have a guild behind me with members who knew the quest and walked me thru it. This quest is long and hard if done on your own. I'm not debating that! Let's not get ourselves into a debate about classes, Arilin brought up the topic of at boot only rares. Isn't that what this is all about? Did I mention that not all the lich quest mobs respond to questioning and you blindly have to try them?

And for the love of gawd, stop this stupid rumor about lich's being one of the most powerful classes. It simply is NOT true. Once upon a time they were, but they sure aren't now. I'll take my 50 invoker over my lich any day of the week. That's why I deleted my invoker and not my lich. Lich has zero pull to suck me back into playing agian.

-LL
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Postby Dezzex » Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:23 pm

So what makes a quest hard? Lots of zone items? Obscure items that aren't regularly done and are not widely known? Difficult hints? Many steps?

I hate to join in this discussion because I'd rather not encourage any dissemination of lich info, but the lich quest does have more or less all of the above. Without this rare, the quest may well be done as Ashiwi said, in a quick afternoon jaunt.

Quest rares are there to moderate the rate at which these quests can be done. Sure there are other ways to do it, but this is just one way, and I don't think it's entirely unreasonable. Not saying they can't be annoying, but being annoying is not mutually exclusive with giving difficulty to the quest either.

If anything the discussion should be on *how* rare a rare can be.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
<B>is that 1 rare is used in 3 or 4 different quests, so that 1 rare is hunted by 20 different people trying to finish those 3 or 4 quests

so we have super rare % + long boot times + multiple quests/items == your screwed unless someone wants to be nice to you

thats just my expereience though

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can we say "Shijin"? Yeah, that whole needing the "neverload" rare for multiple quests is rather anoying. It's great when you find these mobs, but waiting 1-2 years for an item is just rediculous.

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Postby Corth » Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:34 am

If the item loaded on a difficult fight that loaded every boot it would be a whole lot harder and a lot less annoying. Waiting around is not difficult. Any asshole can sit around waiting for a crash or a boot.

Corth

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Postby Zoldren » Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:09 am

whut corth said

realy sucks for those who are almost never on for fresh boots

last 3 boots i know of where done b4 7am central at 40hour boots = day time players *central* screwed on rares zones quests that people do over multiple boots so nobody else can do them *grumble*

seriously
"super rares" need looked at
rares that are multiple quests needs looked at

like chlora for example.. how many ways can you split a dragon scale for quests........

yet how often does she load? shes not that bad but just an example
how many people have swirling dragon tats? or had one and used it... this entire incarnation?
how many months/years have we been up?

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Postby Dalar » Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:48 am

why don't you just have rares on rares. example

Shijin is 10% load (so people can actually quest vermillion) and his tatto be like 10% load.

Torturelord 10% but make the stupid cat of nine tails 100% load and the mask 10% load.

I wouldn't mind liching this year.

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Postby Zolth » Fri Jan 24, 2003 10:26 am

Damn,

I gotta agree with Dalar on this one. That is a creative way to look at the problem.

Zoldren,

I'm a Swede. When I go to work in the morning, you guys are about to hit the sack after mudding. Hence I need to go to sleep like 6 hours before you guys do. I do not have any huge problem with logging on or beeing logged on when a crash/boot comes along.. I belive that everyone is having a problem with this since the uptime of the mud has drastically gone from 10-20 hours to 40+ hours.

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Postby Zoldren » Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zolth:
<B>Damn,

I gotta agree with Dalar on this one. That is a creative way to look at the problem.

Zoldren,

I'm a Swede. When I go to work in the morning, you guys are about to hit the sack after mudding. Hence I need to go to sleep like 6 hours before you guys do. I do not have any huge problem with logging on or beeing logged on when a crash/boot comes along.. I belive that everyone is having a problem with this since the uptime of the mud has drastically gone from 10-20 hours to 40+ hours.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree

but you going to bed 6 hours earlier also means your awake 6 hours b4, and that you would be up for the reboots that i said earlier :P

------------------
MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
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Postby old depok » Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:55 pm

When I was doing my Scry and Spirit walk quest I ran to the mob with the rare load pelt every reboot I could. I never did find the pelt. I was given it.

The problem with rare loads is even more annoying when the item can be used for multiple quests.

Sucks to have to depend upon luck to do the most important quest for your class (i am refering to the lich quest not scry and spirit walk).
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Postby Zolth » Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:55 pm

Zoldren, Pinky,

Your saying that I'm 6 hours erlier then you guys.. (to make that correct, I'd have to say that I'm 8 hours erlier then you guys :P) Anyway.. Have you reconsider the small fact that every American/Canadian is asleep at this hour and even if I could find a rough rare I couldn't kill it for the 6 hours to come since noone is online? :P

More Pink!

-Zolth

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Postby Zoldren » Sat Jan 25, 2003 1:35 am

realy wow, i heard today as matter of fact prime ptime is 10pm -4am central

heard normaly around 100 goodies alone..
this wrong?

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MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
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Postby Yasden » Sat Jan 25, 2003 10:59 pm

What fool would quest vermilion chainmail in this day and age? As for Shijin, he's loaded quite a few times this wipe, but the # of tattoos in the game are slim to none because people have quested them for future Erlan quests.

But I agree that something needs to change with rares as the length of boots has dramatically increased since Toril.

Deathmagnet
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Postby Dalar » Sun Jan 26, 2003 1:50 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yasden:
<B>What fool would quest vermilion chainmail in this day and age? As for Shijin, he's loaded quite a few times this wipe, but the # of tattoos in the game are slim to none because people have quested them for future Erlan quests.

But I agree that something needs to change with rares as the length of boots has dramatically increased since Toril.

Deathmagnet</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

since erlan isn't in game yet, a bard might since they need hps and hitroll.

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