It really has to stop.

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Kifle
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It really has to stop.

Postby Kifle » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:48 am

Ok, i can see people trading for things like a jeweled prism or a cat o nine tails, but chlora scales? Yes, the rules have loopholes and that is what the prism, whip, and various other quest items that have been traded over the coarse of this wipe that i have seen, but chlora scales. You guys are really getting bold. I don't know who should take the blame for this one, but it really has to stop.

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Postby rachaz » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:40 am

Why does it really have to stop?
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:10 am

You mean besides the fact that its against the rules, Rachaz?

-G

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Postby Sarell » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:02 am

nogs besides that Image

I figure the spirit of not being allowed to trade/buy quest items is so that people will figure out quests and appreciate the hard work of the zone writers. However, fat chance honestly finding out where you might find some green dragon scales / a barbarian who has a nice earring in the current game. These rules don't stop people from camping rares, they do it anyway, get the items then trade those. And many rare campers have definately been told the quests aswell in the first place. The only thing these rules combined with current high end mud populace and long boots are accomplishing atm is making the quests virtually undo-able for people who honestly want to figure them out.

WTTF elven collar

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Postby Corth » Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:35 pm

Gargauth is against the rules too!

*wave* Image

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Postby Myre » Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:45 pm

if the 'role-play' society can learn anything from the HORROR SHOW everquest has become... it is that you CAN'T stop people from doing things they WANT to do...

I mean there are loop holes built into everything...

i.e. Hey Corth! I'll trade you this neeto Nipple ring of the faerie queen for that leather bag with an iron ration in it!

Hey and ya know, if you just forgot to take out the chlora scale...well schuks...

I mean look at everquest and ebay...for god sakes people stopped selling items and started selling the 'time they spent to get the item' and even lawyers from Sony couldn't stop that...

I guess to make it simple...what's the point in trying to stop the few people who listen to the rules...it's like putting in gun laws...the only people it stops from getting guns are the decent people who likely won't use them anyways.. cause the deviants will get them...and use them..no matter what the law..

RUELZ IZ FER BREAKIN'!
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Postby Zolth » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:04 pm

We got gunlaws in Sweden and they work more then fine. You just have to get a licens and can't have 200 rifles in the closet (you gotta have a specific government approved security locker for 'em!) If you are a collector of guns then you can get a special permit for inhabiting more then say uhm, 3-4 weapons (Guns, rifles etc.)

Rules and laws are made for the good of all of us. How silly they might just seem.. Ok, some breakage could be cool, but really.. don't break the serious once :P

-Z-

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Postby Zoldren » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:39 pm

so people who are not going to use those items, like they only want 1 of chloras scales, should what duckpond the other? even giving it to someone is considerered "trading" so that would be against the rules so if u loot only u can use? or duck pond it....come on....

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Postby Zolth » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:56 pm

Be real Pinky!

I don't think that giving a item to another player would be considered trading. Ie. I loot a green dragon scale and give it to groupleader.

If you give that item to another person for personal gain as equippment or cash, I would consider it to be trading. If I give it to say Nitropoop and he quests something nice and then returns this quested item to me. I would not consider it to be trading. More like he was doing me a favour. (I could tell you about a quest where you can't enter a room because the mob that wants the quest item is aggro to Ie. dudes but not dudesses.. So to avoid this, I would have a dudesses to give this mob the item.)

Common sense people! Common sense!

Or not..

-Zolthorrific, the not so Outcast!

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Postby Sarvis » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:35 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
<B>so people who are not going to use those items, like they only want 1 of chloras scales, should what duckpond the other? even giving it to someone is considerered "trading" so that would be against the rules so if u loot only u can use? or duck pond it....come on....

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they only want one they should only quest it once. That way other people could give it a shot...




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Postby moritheil » Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:05 pm

The ultimate point of this is that they should not be a regular part of the economy. Unfortunately, they are. They are hoarded just as much as people might hoard anything else. This is but a consequence of the new era of hoarding.

Last time I did TF, I had 13 people bid on eldritch. Needless to say, quite a few of them couldn't use it. But as long as you have an economy and people willing to trade for things, and open bidding, these things happen.

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Postby rachaz » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:35 pm

Garg had the only real valid answer so far to my question. But my point was that it had to come from an admin not a player. If you really want quest items not to be bought as A PLAYER your only option is to not sell them. Not to make a post on the bbs telling people what they HAVE to do.

Rachaz
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:23 pm

Your other choices, Rachaz, are to not buy any purely quest items. You can also point out whenever someone is offering to buy, trade, or sell a quest item. Lastly, if you see anybody trading quest items, you can petition the gods. There are lots of things one can do to put an end to this illegal activity.

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Postby Pheten » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:12 pm

Last time I did TF, I had 13 people bid on eldritch. Needless to say, quite a few of them couldn't use it. But as long as you have an economy and people willing to trade for things, and open bidding, these things happen.

Sad but true, but on the mud (goodie side at least) this is pretty much the only way you are ever going to get any item you need.
When I first came back to the mud from everquest I was used to people only getting/asking for items they needed from a raid like we did it on there. After having 5-10 items i needed on my main character won by someone for their 18'th alt that they might roll in a few months I got the shock treatment that said welcome back to Sojourn=p So moral is, either bid on stuff you cant use to trade to to that person that won the thing you DID need 2 trips ago, or wind up wearin leather armor!
P.S. or find someone like Corth who will actually limit bidding on good items to classes who need=p
-tdr



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Postby Tasan » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:20 pm

Feh, Pheten, the reason things like that happened was because of greed in the first place. I can name 5 players off the bat who won't help do anything unless there is some sort of reward for them involved. It's really hard to put a group together that is willing to do something for someone in specific and wait their damned turn.

I tried handouts before, and it worked with certain groups of people, probably can try again.

Twinshadow

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Postby thanuk » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:23 pm

I bet it wouldn't be such a problem if 75% of the quests didn't call for chlora scales Image

Ok hrm, we have 200 people, 30 quests, some of those quests are necessary class quests, and 1 item on a rareload dragon, that only loads in a few specific places, and only right after a reboot. And people hoard his scales, shocking!

I have a serious question tho...Is it legal to trade the armor you get for chlora scales for the actual pre-quested scales? I mean its trading a quest item but its really not Image




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Postby Wobb » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:53 pm

Well one thing I never understood about quests here, why are they so "set in stone"? One thing you could do is add an item to several of the quests, and make that item load on any mob.

Perhaps there should be a range of items, that may or may not load for example:

Here is how all quests work right now:

To quest for the great shimmering club of pummeling, you need:

a small wooden club
a shimmering pair of longjohns
a pair of boxing gloves

Instead of making quests "always" require those items, why not make it different each boot so maybe next time its the same 3 items plus you need:

a small box of gems

but next boot its a:

a small bag of gems

and perhaps these things load "anywhere" in the game, not just on certain mobs. When the quest mobs tells you what is needed, he can just say "and a small container of gems".

Now, the only problem I see with this is -- what about quests that take multiple boots, months to complete? Fine, just make it so that the questing mob will take any of the "a small (x-container) of gems" and give you the quest item.

The key is making things load on different mobs. Keep it within reason, you shouldn't be able to get a gythka by killing blink-dogs, but now and then it would be more realistic and hella-more fun to just be wandering around and pick up a small portion of a quest item off something you slay on your way to somewhere else.

Or i guess you could just take quests out of the game completely, this would solve the other problem.

Wobb


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Postby Mikayla » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:55 pm

and people wonder why i hate quests so much

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Kifle
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Postby Kifle » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:19 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rachaz:
<B>Garg had the only real valid answer so far to my question. But my point was that it had to come from an admin not a player. If you really want quest items not to be bought as A PLAYER your only option is to not sell them. Not to make a post on the bbs telling people what they HAVE to do.

Rachaz</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My point to the post was to bring the !trading quest items rule back to the attention of the gods who have obviously lost interest in their own rules...somebody posted a LF: Chlora scales on the board in WD. So, obviously this rule has either not been brought to this persons attention, or he realizes that the gods will not punish him for this infraction. Either way, something really needs to be done about it. If you make a rules you need to enforce all of them rather than certain ones.

Yes, I will agree that it will be a tough thing to crack down on, but at least make an effort.



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Postby Bipple » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
<B> My point to the post was to bring the !trading quest items rule back to the attention of the gods who have obviously lost interest in their own rules...somebody posted a LF: Chlora scales on the board in WD. So, obviously this rule has either not been brought to this persons attention, or he realizes that the gods will not punish him for this infraction. Either way, something really needs to be done about it. If you make a rules you need to enforce all of them rather than certain ones.

Yes, I will agree that it will be a tough thing to crack down on, but at least make an effort.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'd also like point out Chlora loads with 2 scales, it's quite possile for someone to kill her for one scale and have an extra of the second scale they can't use. I'd prefer they trade it to somone that needs it (But can't get it cause the mud only goes down 2-3 times a week) rather than have it sit in their bag. I don't think anyone goes out of their way to hoard quest items like this (!equip) for the sole purpose of trading it.
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Postby Kifle » Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bipple:
<B>
I'd also like point out Chlora loads with 2 scales, it's quite possile for someone to kill her for one scale and have an extra of the second scale they can't use. I'd prefer they trade it to somone that needs it (But can't get it cause the mud only goes down 2-3 times a week) rather than have it sit in their bag. I don't think anyone goes out of their way to hoard quest items like this (!equip) for the sole purpose of trading it.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Or, since they would know that trading quest items is illegal they would just give it to the person that needs it. The one scale that load on chlora is for an enchanter quest. Why it is would not be given away is beyond me. The other, on the other hand, is used for multiple quests so the person that is finds chlora is usually looking for it, or they will then start one of the quests since they have the annoying item out of the way. What happend on the FS board was just the last straw. It's like stealing in front of a cop and the cop not doing anything about it.


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Postby Mikayla » Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:57 am

so kifle what about the person who does not have all day to dedicate to the mud, because oh lets say they HAVE A LIFE but they need some help with a quest or 2?

now me personally i hate quests always will always have, maybe that is why my paladin does not have an avenger.

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Postby Bipple » Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:59 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
<B>
Or, since they would know that trading quest items is illegal they would just give it to the person that needs it. The one scale that load on chlora is for an enchanter quest. Why it is would not be given away is beyond me. The other, on the other hand, is used for multiple quests so the person that is finds chlora is usually looking for it, or they will then start one of the quests since they have the annoying item out of the way. What happend on the FS board was just the last straw. It's like stealing in front of a cop and the cop not doing anything about it.


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Both scales are used in multiple quests however I see no reason why the person with the extra scale should be Obligated to Give it away for nothing. They took the time to find the mob, form a group and kill it... they should get something for their efforts. There is also a huge amount of quest items kicking around in peoples bags from quests they started and never completed because either the item they need never loads or they got a better item from a zone. I believe the spirit of the no trading/selling quest item rule was to prevent people harvesting quest items with the intent to sell them for profit, this is not the case and if it was I'm sure the gods would step in.
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Postby gnerble » Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:03 am

I gave my chlora scales to Weylarii once for a quest. He didn't ask for them. Later on (a month?), I needed something and he happened to have one.

Just a thought, not sure how common it is for this to occur

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Postby Dalar » Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bipple:
<B>
Both scales are used in multiple quests however I see no reason why the person with the extra scale should be Obligated to Give it away for nothing. They took the time to find the mob, form a group and kill it... they should get something for their efforts. There is also a huge amount of quest items kicking around in peoples bags from quests they started and never completed because either the item they need never loads or they got a better item from a zone. I believe the spirit of the no trading/selling quest item rule was to prevent people harvesting quest items with the intent to sell them for profit, this is not the case and if it was I'm sure the gods would step in. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i've already seen more than 2 cases of this in the past couple of weeks. I've been offered Infernos and gorgimera scales for trade. W-T-F. GC pisses me off. THe fact that someone will trade his infernos scales pisses me off even more.


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Postby Osil » Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:14 am

Here is an opinion from a lowbie but I think it would be a good idea. Create a position of Quest Admin in the ranks of the gods.
This persons job would be to balance the quests (so you don't get junk at the end) and make sure all of the current ones are working correctly. This Imm could improve some of the wording of the clues to make them less vague. Also this Imm could change some of the stuff a quest mob wants (or change the quest mob) every now and again to keep things interesting. Also this person can run his own quests by possessing a mob and interacting directly with players. For instance Khelben shouts "Looking for adventurers to return such and such to me." And away you go on the quest. Basically this persons job is to make questing a legitimate part of the higher level mudding experience.
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Postby Sarell » Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:29 am

I think perhaps people need to tell people to get stuffed when they ask them to help kill a rare for the 5th time for 'a friend' that remains unamed and not online that wants the item, or to kill a rare that they 'happened' to stumble on .2 seconds into boot but don't know what is for. The rules ask you not to even give away quest items, so imho if you are killing a fairly common general equip mob, specifically chlora or zog for someone that isn't even there while someone else in the group or someone else forming a group to kill the mob could use the item to wear... well that is mightily lame imho.

The problem will still always exist now however, because people are not 'doing' quests, they are told them. And however ethically this position may rest, people who know the quests will continue to repeat them for gain because some people would rather do that than other things in the mud.

I think the idea of 'claiming' rares compounds this problem also. Zog isn't very rare, chlora isn't even very rare. However if you are first to find them (which isn't very hard) there is a good chance people will help you smite it and let you keep the item, it doesn't take long to do. Hard line rules cannot apply in this situation, so you will get people continuing to 'claim' rares. It is a very worthwhile past time in terms of equipment rewards, don't even need to trade the quest items, just trade the shells/armor. Atm I want the fiesty dragon for a quest dearly, I recently came a close second to finding it, when it was dead and burried the person asked me, so what is this for? Hence I completely understand the sentiment of someone wanting to trade for chlora scales with this kind of competition.

Shrug, WTB/TF a !summon neckware for an elf druid.

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Postby Daz » Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:42 am

Who cares if people sell or trade quest equipment? Most of the people who are angry about it, are angry because someone else has something they need, but don't have. I've done brass 50 times and I've won my bid *once* - but life goes on. It's just a ring.

You learn to be a lot happier when you just accept that if you are playing your class for your class, you will lose equipment to people bidding for their alts. I had my BEST luck zoning when I bid for an alt.

My solution to getting equipment? Make an alt, and use him. Kwirl exists because Daz will never in a million years win a bid for a twilight. But Kwirl has a very real chance.

Quest rares and their drops are the same thing, with a different perspective.

Let's face it - Sojourn is all about 'sinks' now. Time, equipment, or platinum - the NEW breed of quest exists to take away what we have and make it better. We may not all like it, but it WILL force people to do things such as buy and sell and trade quest components. Chlora scales are wrong to trade, but Sauk's dagger is not? Why? Because scales are rareload and dagger is a rareload quest item? What is the difference?

Either trading anything should be frowned upon, or we need to just realize that people WILL trade it anyway, and find another way to cope. Every single item in the game is a quest item now, so singling out a certain 'type' of quest item, is as ludicrous as it is near-unenforceable.

-daz/kwirl
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Postby Zoldren » Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:23 pm

just a quick Q...

rules
and
help quest
help rules etc

nothing about trading/selling quest eq that i saw.. anyone know where it says it is illegal?

and it also says its illegal/frowned appon ie *please dont GIVE quest information*

but what about
buying information
paying someone to do the quest for you
buying the end result
trading quest information
either way its not giving...

what about those who want to do a hard quest, but dont have the ptime. the only thing they can do is have others help them get it/do it.. and by buying/trading for quest items

ya lets screw all those who arnt power mudders, and implement only if you found it or in the group who found the rare mob, are you able to get the equipment and use it
thats basicaly what we are saying

they whole 1 rare quest mob multiple quest for multiple items for multiple classes pisses me off too

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MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
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Postby thanuk » Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:41 pm

Anyone who thinks people dont use quest items to trade for profit should ask arilin how he got his whip. I looked a bit for him, and some of the items that were requested were 1) 1 of every item in the game 2) an amulet of sight 3) a surtur and and old roots belt. Luckily for him, verarb has more class than that.

Seriously now, people aren't stupid. They have a quest item that you need, and it never loads, and they have you by the short and curlies. Thats why you can't trade quest items, because it pretty much amounts to extortion.

You can trade the result of a quest because its a peice of eq, just like something you would get at a zone. You went and got it, now you have it, its yours. Its different from a chlora scale or something to that effect, because the scales will be traded based on its rarity and the value of the return of the quest, and will inflate its value tremendously. It also guarantees a higher demand then supply, and people would be able to get insane items for rare quest items. You can get alot more for an unquested chlora scale or fireweed clump than you will for the armor or earring. You think rare camping is bad now? Wait and see what happens if they made it okay to trade quest items.

People are always going to hoard quest items as well, because they are rare and you might need them somewhere down the road. There's nothing you can do to change it, and theres no way to enforce any rules you make against it, unless someone is blatantly in violation. So all you can do is what Sarell said, tell quest eq hoarders to go fark themselves when they ask you for help. Items like chlora that are used in a great number of quests that are all commonly done(some of which are even class required), just accentuate the problem because of the seriously high demand for it. If chlora wasn't in so many quests, it wouldn't be such a problem, because there wouldn't be so many people looking for her ugly green ass. Once it gets to the player level its too late;nothing you can do about it. The only way this problem won't get out of hand is if the gods use better diversity in quest requirements, rather than asking for the same items over and over.

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Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:47 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
<B>just a quick Q...

rules
and
help quest
help rules etc

nothing about trading/selling quest eq that i saw.. anyone know where it says it is illegal?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Help rules
Part 6-2

2. selling items needed for quests that have no real eq value



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Postby Zoldren » Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:15 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xisiqomelir:
<B> Help rules
Part 6-2

2. selling items needed for quests that have no real eq value
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

so if it had monitary value its ok to sell, if it has personal rp reasons its ok to sell.

it is legal to trade and give items.. ok point settled


------------------
MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
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Postby Corth » Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:17 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
Anyone who thinks people dont use quest items to trade for profit should ask arilin how he got his whip. I looked a bit for him, and some of the items that were requested were 1) 1 of every item in the game 2) an amulet of sight 3) a surtur and and old roots belt.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Irony: One of the people who asked for ridiculous stuff from arilin has a god.

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Goddamned slippery mage.

[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 01-29-2003).]
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:20 pm

Zoldren, you know the spirit behind the rule, are you one of those who always tries to find a way to justify doing whatever it is you want to do? I find it difficult to believe you really don't understand this concept.
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
Anyone who thinks people dont use quest items to trade for profit should ask arilin how he got his whip. I looked a bit for him, and some of the items that were requested were 1) 1 of every item in the game 2) an amulet of sight 3) a surtur and and old roots belt. Luckily for him, verarb has more class than that.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the grand total for me was(and this is adding everyones wants)

2x amulet of sight
old roots belt
every item in the game
smoke goggles
And one person didn't want to let me use his and replace it because 1. He may, at some point want to start a necromancer, and 2. He doesn't like Corth.

So, all in all, yeah. It was pretty stupid.

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-Arilin Nydelahar
...Knowledge is power, and knowledge of life and death brings power over all beings, living and unliving.
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Postby moritheil » Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:23 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Osil:
<B>Here is an opinion from a lowbie but I think it would be a good idea. Create a position of Quest Admin in the ranks of the gods.
This persons job would be to balance the quests (so you don't get junk at the end) and make sure all of the current ones are working correctly. This Imm could improve some of the wording of the clues to make them less vague. Also this Imm could change some of the stuff a quest mob wants (or change the quest mob) every now and again to keep things interesting. Also this person can run his own quests by possessing a mob and interacting directly with players. For instance Khelben shouts "Looking for adventurers to return such and such to me." And away you go on the quest. Basically this persons job is to make questing a legitimate part of the higher level mudding experience. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a good idea.

Unfortunately, that would require giving them broad, sweeping authority if they're to be effective.

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Sparks crackle in your ear as Kossuth tells you 'answer for you, possibly, O Spankmagnetic One'
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:27 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
<B>
what about those who want to do a hard quest, but dont have the ptime. the only thing they can do is have others help them get it/do it.. and by buying/trading for quest items

ya lets screw all those who arnt power mudders, and implement only if you found it or in the group who found the rare mob, are you able to get the equipment and use it
thats basicaly what we are saying
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhm, yeah, thats the idea. If you wanna do a hard quest, you have to dedicate the time to it. Why should people who actually do put in the time to do a hard and long quest be the ones getting screwed? They went out and found all the rares and did the quest for a month, you logged on and traded for the items in an hour, but thats fair in your mind? If you dont have the ptime, then dont do the quest. And dont tell me that it ruins the game for you. If you dont play constantly, theres plenty of other stuff to do that takes an hour or less and will fit into your schedule. Then you can just trade that for the end item of the quest. If you dont have that kind of time, then your not going to be able to reach the same level as other people who do; thats the nature of the game.



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Thanuk Pantherclaw

Gargauth responds to your petition with 'whats your point, we hate you'
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Postby Zoldren » Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:53 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B> Uhm, yeah, thats the idea. If you wanna do a hard quest, you have to dedicate the time to it. Why should people who actually do put in the time to do a hard and long quest be the ones getting screwed? They went out and found all the rares and did the quest for a month, you logged on and traded for the items in an hour, but thats fair in your mind? If you dont have the ptime, then dont do the quest. And dont tell me that it ruins the game for you. If you dont play constantly, theres plenty of other stuff to do that takes an hour or less and will fit into your schedule. Then you can just trade that for the end item of the quest. If you dont have that kind of time, then your not going to be able to reach the same level as other people who do; thats the nature of the game.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok so add those who have the ptime do look for rares and still dont get them.

i know people who play 8+ hours and still have to trade to get equipment, rares etc...

sorry to bring up this recent pain.. arilin how much shit did u go threw to get ur cat?

just because you activly seek the mob have the ptime doesnt mean u will get it, unles ofc you camp the mob but then u break another rule....

trading/giving quest eq *if fair* == fine
selling it for profit = gay == abuse

------------------
MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
Zoldren
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Postby Zoldren » Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:56 pm

and if u want to know what realy "ruins the game for me"

its when you spend months on 1 quest to get 1 item.. to find out that their are already a shit load of them in game *albiet u have the only one quested from the mob*

having people deck out 5 alts when people they normaly zone with need the eq their 5th alt sells...

just some of the things...

------------------
MoM-D
Originally posted by Baikalisan:
There once was a girl named Pinky
Who liked to flash and get kinky
We gave her some cash
She went down in a flash
And made us all squirm like a slinky!
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:22 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zoldren:
<B>and if u want to know what realy "ruins the game for me"

its when you spend months on 1 quest to get 1 item.. to find out that their are already a shit load of them in game *albiet u have the only one quested from the mob*

having people deck out 5 alts when people they normaly zone with need the eq their 5th alt sells...

just some of the things...

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*comf pinky* i hope quest gods stop doing that :/

<EMBED src="http://www.kingsofchaos.com/page.php?id=140794" quality=high bgcolor=#FFFFFF WIDTH="0" HEIGHT="0" NAME="ss" ALIGN="" TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash" PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></EMBED>
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<EMBED src="http://www.kingsofchaos.com/page.php?id=142715" quality=high bgcolor=#FFFFFF WIDTH="0" HEIGHT="0" NAME="ss" ALIGN="" TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash" PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></EMBED>

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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
Vlorm tells you 'you da man!'
Esrel tells you 'dartan is cool'

[This message has been edited by Dalar (edited 01-29-2003).]
Kifle
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Postby Kifle » Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:09 am

The fact is, has been, and will be until writen otherwise, that trading of !stat quest items is illegal. I dont care if you have 5 chlora scales. If you do, you will probably give them to somebody in your guild or you have plans for using them in one of the many quests they are for. If i am wrong you are a dick and i better not find out you traded them because i am becoming a damn narc and urge a lot of you to do the same. And if the god's chose to do nothing about it, well i guess I can start killing bankers and hording quest items.

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Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Dartan tells you 'i own so hard sometimes it makes me want to cry'

Kiaransalee OOC: 'Justin Timberlake will be the next Elvis'

[This message has been edited by Kifle (edited 01-30-2003).]
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Postby rachaz » Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:31 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
<B>The fact is, has been, and will be until writen otherwise, that trading of !stat quest items is illegal. I dont care if you have 5 chlora scales. If you do, you will probably give them to somebody in your guild or you have plans for using them in one of the many quests they are for. If i am wrong you are a dick and i better not find out you traded them because i am becoming a damn narc and urge a lot of you to do the same. And if the god's chose to do nothing about it, well i guess I can start killing bankers and hording quest items.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why dont you also follow this rule:

12.Players should settle their own disputes. Talking to a Staff member
should be a last resort. Use the petition channel if you need to
consult with a Staff member.

Like I said in an earlier statement. I don't agree with selling or buying quest items. But you should deal with it yourself. If there is no market for them, people will not sell them. Annoying the gods who are extremely busy is not the answer. So become a "narc" by watching your own actions.

I just have to say that while I agree with Kifle's original point, I do not agree with the method of delivery. This thread has no place on this topic. No thread has any place on this topic where a player professes to be the end all of decision making.

That being said, I have trusted the immortals of sojourn to make the right decisions for years. I will continue to trust their decisions.

While I have never bought or sold a quest item, I do not think of myself as better than anyone who has.

Rachaz
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Postby Mikayla » Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:14 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
<B>The fact is, has been, and will be until writen otherwise, that trading of !stat quest items is illegal. I dont care if you have 5 chlora scales. If you do, you will probably give them to somebody in your guild or you have plans for using them in one of the many quests they are for. If i am wrong you are a dick and i better not find out you traded them because i am becoming a damn narc and urge a lot of you to do the same. And if the god's chose to do nothing about it, well i guess I can start killing bankers and hording quest items.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


kifle,

this has been going on long before you where ever here. now personally if i had 5 sets of scales i would do with them as i damn well wanted could give a rats ass what you think. but since i dont hoard eq moot point. now me i personally dont have all day to dedicate to the mud anymore, i have found out, I DO HAVE A LIFE, so i do ask for help from my friends, but i only ask them because they are my friends. if you dont like that, tough shit i dont care. if that pisses you off, i am sorry. but so is life.

dont take this as a personal flame it is just the facts is all.


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Her Royal Bitchness Eye Aeturnum
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Postby thanuk » Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:35 pm

People who play all the time and still dont get the rares they are looking for have shitty luck, thats all there is to it. It took me like 5 months to find talos, i been checking jot invasion since mid july and i still dont have a surtur. Its just the way it goes, there's more than just skill envolved. For example, after arilin got his whip (hi5 vman), it loaded 3 of the next 4 boots. Its just the way it goes.

Trading/selling quest eq isn't what makes people's 5th alt have better eq than your main character, individual greed is responsible for that.

And you know who the people who do this are. I know a certain someone who has a character rented in GN and another camped at the BS knight who sweeps for rares they dont need every boot just to hoarde them. You know what i did? I stopped helping them kill the mobs! Its really simple. If you see people who are exceptionally greedy and they ruin your fun, stop hanging out with them.

Kifle, i dont see how the selling/trading of quest eq, legal or not, effects you in any way whatsoever. I don't do it, i know people who have done it, and i dont look down on them. If you rat them out for doing it, are they going to stop hoarding rares? No. You will go through alot of trouble and frustration for nothing. You have kids right? Do you tell your kid to tell the teacher every time someone breaks the rules on the playground? Not unless you want them to get picked on and beat up. Nobody likes a rat. You tell your kid to not hang out with the bad kids, and let them seal their own fate. The mud is an extraordinary parellel of kindergarden in many ways.

The only thing you can do is note who these people are, and stop associating with them. I know who tried to extort arilin for his whip, and they wont be getting any help from me any time soon, and im sure many of the people in my guild have the same attitude. Eventually other people will follow suit, and the person will realize that their actions are unacceptable when the day comes that they find a rare, and some other group walks in and kills it because nobody would help them. Its a team game, and if your not a team player, people will eventually stop talking to you, because your a dick. There is no formal rule against being a dick, and the rules against trading/selling quest eq are extremely difficult to enforce. Ratting people out wont fix anything, but ostracizing them works wonders.

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Thanuk Pantherclaw

Gargauth responds to your petition with 'whats your point, we hate you'
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Postby Kifle » Thu Jan 30, 2003 7:21 pm

Honestly, the trading of rares doesn't ruin my fun, but the objective of the post was that a major rule was being broken in front of the gods face with no reprecusion. Somebody wrote LF: chlora scales on the damn FS board. Yeah, i understand that narcing will do shit and is probably not the right thing to do, but this we will strongly enforce this rule and not inforce this rule bullshit pisses me off to no end.

If the case remains that these rules can't be enforced, take them out. It is really crapy when one person gets in trouble for say, killing a banker, but somebody else doesnt get in trouble when they are seen camping on, or trading/hoarding rares. Contradictions when enforcing rules only makes the enforcers look bad and annoys the population.

------------------
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Dartan tells you 'i own so hard sometimes it makes me want to cry'

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Postby thanuk » Thu Jan 30, 2003 7:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
<B>
If the case remains that these rules can't be enforced, take them out. It is really crapy when one person gets in trouble for say, killing a banker, but somebody else doesnt get in trouble when they are seen camping on, or trading/hoarding rares. Contradictions when enforcing rules only makes the enforcers look bad and annoys the population.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well the problem with that is, if you take the rule out, it makes it okay to camp rares and trade quest eq, and then it will just get 100x worse. The rule is too hard to enforce, think of it like drug laws. You cant bust every guy who smokes a joint, its just not gonna happen. So what you do is bust the biggest offenders and the suppliers, and give them harsh penalties that will deter the rest of the population. I remember back on toril, they put a sign outside the silver bracer mob that said
"Sylvos is not allowed to kill this mob anymore. If he does he will be deleted."

And then a week later someone else got deleted for camping on EQ, i forget who, but they were a highlevel player. Suddenly, everyone stopped camping on eq.

The other problem is penalty. What should the penalty be for trading a quest item or camping on a rare? Deletion? All your eq and half your levels? That doesn't seem very fair. Best you could do would be to just take away the quest item/rare, unless its a repeat offender.

I know what your saying about posting it on the for sale board, but how long did that message actually stay up until a god deleted it? Im sure they have the situation under control, you just have to be more patient. Kia, in her infinite hatred of mortals, will eventually make an example out of someone, just hope it isnt me Image



------------------
Thanuk Pantherclaw

Gargauth responds to your petition with 'whats your point, we hate you'
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Postby Nekler BlazingWolf » Fri Jan 31, 2003 11:50 am

Ok, since I didn't read the post on the sale board, correct me if I'm wrong.
The title of the post was LF: chlora scales.
Now, who says the person wanted to give anything for the scales? They were just letting people know that they wanted the scales and should contact them should someone have some to give.
Of course, that doesn't stop someone from saying that they want something in return for the scales, but that wasn't the point of the message on the sale board that you are trying to use to bitch about something.
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Postby Kifle » Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:08 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nekler BlazingWolf:
<B>Ok, since I didn't read the post on the sale board, correct me if I'm wrong.
The title of the post was LF: chlora scales.
Now, who says the person wanted to give anything for the scales? They were just letting people know that they wanted the scales and should contact them should someone have some to give.
Of course, that doesn't stop someone from saying that they want something in return for the scales, but that wasn't the point of the message on the sale board that you are trying to use to bitch about something.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All i have to say is, give me a fucking break and wise up.


------------------
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Dartan tells you 'i own so hard sometimes it makes me want to cry'

Kiaransalee OOC: 'Justin Timberlake will be the next Elvis'
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Postby moritheil » Fri Jan 31, 2003 1:50 pm

read knetzar's solution!

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Sparks crackle in your ear as Kossuth tells you 'answer for you, possibly, O Spankmagnetic One'
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:17 pm

Sad to think people really NEED all the hard-ass policing of behavior from last wipe just to follow the rules, eh?

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