Scorp Earring

A forum for discussion of the object changes...one thread per item please. Read the first post!
Sarell
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Scorp Earring

Postby Sarell » Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:38 pm

what the?
skully = > scorp earring imho....

Changing from 3ac 3hit 1 dam to 2dam 4maxcon is a completely different item and does nothing to balance anything. Rogues the primary users of these earrings get nothing from maxcon. This is a HARD item to get imho. The new stats are good, but useless to so many and I cannot see how they do anything to upgrade melee classes as was frequently spoken in the leadup to gear changes.
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Postby Kaede » Thu Nov 06, 2003 3:43 pm

Yeah, I completely agree with Sarell, its a completely different item now... it rocks for warrior classes but is useless for rogue classes (who were its primary users before). Unless of course you give rogues max_con capability :)

BTW you notice how much new Max_Con gear there is in the game now? Is this supposed to mean that barbs and dorfs can get max_con easily now, or maybe weak elves can get two max con notches? :D
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Nov 06, 2003 3:58 pm

Lets see spend a WHOLE BUNCH of time rare hunting and questing for skull earing thats 2dam now, or go into jot and spend 15 min getting the skull earring.. choose wisely
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Nov 06, 2003 3:59 pm

err since im guest i cant edit my last post, but i meant spend a whole bunch of time questing scorp, or spend 15 min getting skull in jot cuz they are basicly same now. 2dam.
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Postby Dizzin » Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:05 pm

Yep. Give it back its hitroll.

But this is true of ALL high-end quest items.. they just got nerfed to hell.
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Postby belleshel » Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:29 pm

This change was pretty stupid...all earring hitters earrings are 2dam now. What about giving us more options! Also the entire theme of the earring has changed from a hitters earring, to a possible warrior earring. Quest > Zone. Flaming is better for 95% of the mud now, and is extremely easy to get, same as skulls. Even blood earrings are better, and easier.

QUEST > ZONE needs to be considered much more in the latest EQ scheme.

Um wasn't melee supposed to be stronger...not much weaker?
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Postby Nokie » Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:36 pm

Tregor tells you 'hey nokie since your scorps sux0rs now trade ya my tg's :) LOL'
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Postby Cyric » Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:43 pm

Lemme know what you think of fix.
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Postby Dizzin » Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:32 am

So now it's 3hit.. 3.. max_agi?!

maybe you meant.. 3 max_dex.. or even.. 1 dam!

Who would want max_agi!
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...

Postby Oosh » Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:40 am

well, I'd say my 50 yuan-ti warrior with max skills would prolly benefit from max_agil, since the rest of his eq changes basically made him a lvl 50 storage character, but... nope... ohwait....
thats right, he has no f'in ears either.....
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Postby Dalar » Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:48 am

Just make it 1/3 and let's be on our way
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Kaede » Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:11 am

Its still yuck! Please either return it to 3/1 or make stats that are actually useful. Like 3 dam or 2/2 (wasn't that spob earring 2/2 pfg???).
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Postby Sarell » Fri Nov 07, 2003 7:04 am

3 cheers for hit and dam! :) ... 3 3 would be more like it! :9

um... FT scorps earrings, wanted to trade for, dooger mith, skully, waters earrings (water totally pwns it)
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Postby Gromikazer » Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:07 am

he's not going to make it 3 dam or 2/2 thats not going to happen.


2/1 and slow poison sounds like a good compromise to me..

slow poison ofc, cause its a "scorpion" earring...
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Postby belleshel » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:19 pm

Cyric wrote:Lemme know what you think of fix.


It's preferable to yesterday's stats;) but could really use 1 dam.
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Postby Kifle » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:43 pm

Nod, I appreciate the attempt to fix the thing, but hit has always been nothing next to damage. Especially since it seems to be the trend to give things more hit and less damage. 2/2 would be worth the time it takes to actually win the race to the rares, a few of which don't like to load much. I'd be happy with 3/1 slow poison or 2/2. Hitter classes got totally screwed while tanks get a bit of a boost and casters got less screwed.
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Postby Gromikazer » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:57 pm

Tank classes didn't get a bit of a boost. I in no way benifeited from the changes. I lost hitpoints, hit/dam and ac, saving throws, the works.
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Postby kiryan » Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:29 am

Caz (warrior) lost a lot of hps, ac, and a TON of save magic ( cloud gonna hurt bad) sense life, farsee, and pfa. Easily the hardest hit out of my chars (cleric, shaman, squid, dire raider).

I didn't wear any hit/dam eq and what weapon is better than ebony for tanking... can't really say i lost anything in the melee department.
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Postby Cyric » Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:04 pm

Would changing it from max_agi to max_dex make rogues happy?
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Postby Dalar » Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:14 pm

I really doubt that Cyric. Didn't you read that whole thread about how maxdex is useless?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Dizzin » Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:51 pm

Personally speaking, if there's no way it's going to get its 1 damroll back(Which it seems most people would like), then I think most rogues would prefer max_str over max_dex. Assuming that max_agi isn't worth more "points" than max_str of course..
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Postby Nokie » Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:01 pm

max_dex is useless? I didn't know that (no sarcasm intended). Can you provide a link to that discussion Dartan?
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Postby Dalar » Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:06 pm

It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Kaede » Sun Nov 16, 2003 1:19 am

Right now scorp earring is comparable to earring of the waters. Making it max_dex is gonna be useless unless you make dexterity actually do something.

Why not just restore it to 3/1 which was what everyone who spent their time was going for? This is one of the many frustrating and annoying quests on the mud and takes months to finish just one earring. The stats should reflect that, and 3/1 doesn't seem unbalancing with the current eq system. Remove slow poison if that's whats taking up all the points or reconsider the whole thing and account for the difficulty of actually completing this quest.

Ignore Gromikazer's post :P 2/2 or 3 dam works too!
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Postby belleshel » Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:46 am

max_agi > max_dex.
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Postby belleshel » Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:50 am

Gromikazer wrote:he's not going to make it 3 dam or 2/2 thats not going to happen.


2/1 and slow poison sounds like a good compromise to me..

slow poison ofc, cause its a "scorpion" earring...


A single 3 hr run in SPOB can net a 2/2 earring, this quest is much more work..
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Postby Jhorr » Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:23 am

I agree this is perhaps the hardest earring to get in the game. Its current stats just do not justify the effort. Slow-poison is a nice addition though rarely necessary, max_agi isn't really useful at all imo, so what is left? 3hit. May as well just get the ET earring.

Quest EQ got slammed with the changes. It needs to be looked at again.
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Postby Sarell » Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:39 am

Max str I'd possibly wear for dragging darn ogres. I definately like the 2 2, or even 3 1 ideas still. I tried on all the maxdex I could find on my rogue to see if it did anything, it didn't noticably (dooger). Waters earring totally pwns it atm imho, pfa and the 3 hit from scorp, since the maxstats mean very little to my rogue. You could stack a damroll on with the max stats and I think it could still be justified giving the rarity and difficulting in attaining the right order on quest components. *shrug*.
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Postby Kifle » Sun Nov 16, 2003 11:25 pm

Yeah, I hadn't even checked the waters earring yet. If you can get a 3hit pfa earring from a zone that has no chance at spank, unless the leader is new at the zone or something, and a 2/2 earring from a zone that already has 90% of the best eq in the game in it, then the scorps earring should blow both of these out of the water. Of coarse if you don't want to make the scorp earring the end all be all, at least downgrade these to atrocities. Also, as a halfling thief, the only max stat I can use is max str, and if it really comes down to it, max str would be the only reason I would keep this earring sitting in my bag.
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Postby Waelos » Sun Nov 16, 2003 11:48 pm

Uh... sorry to say, this quest is not hard. It wasn't even all that hard when I was the first person to ever complete the quest. Hell, you can SOLO the WHOLE quest. What makes it a pain is the rarity of the mobs involved. If you are going to give stats based on rarity, then items like the Netheril bracelet, ymir cloak, giantkind rings, harper earring, and other uber rare load items/quests need to be significantly upgraded.

4 hit 3max dex would be a very generous stat for the earring.

The String of Aryuk's tears: 4hit 4 agil...from the same zone, and a quest of similar rarity and you need a big group to complete.

Just a point of reference for everyone.

Perhaps 2dam 4maxstr slow poison would be good. Might be a bit high still considering you can solo the quest. Netheril bracelet is a soloable quest as well, and it is only ac 8 2dam detect evil or somesuch.

So, please, put things into perspective on this. Its a rare quest, and should be a good item. But in no way does it deserve to be upgraded like some people are calling for.

In the end, I honestly think that +3 +1 was a good stat for the earring. Change it back, if all else fails =)

Lost.
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Postby belleshel » Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:27 am

Waelos wrote:What makes it a pain is the rarity of the mobs involved. If you are going to give stats based on rarity, then items like the Netheril bracelet, ymir cloak, giantkind rings, harper earring, and other uber rare load items/quests need to be significantly upgraded.


Exactly... rarity should mean something.
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Postby Waelos » Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:32 am

Agreed. But how much? As demonstrated there are items of similar rarity that have similar stats. Why it was ever changed from 3 1 I'll never know.

Does anyone who reads this thread think that 3/1 isn't an acceptable compromise?

Lost
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Postby Kaede » Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:01 am

Wey,

I disagree with the items you posted as having similar rarity. Scorps is rarer :P

And string of Ayuruk's tears is soloable too (yes, Kralgar and Calamity are soloable), and it is a lot less rare and easier to get too. However, most people can't solo either of these quests and will require groups.

Nothing on this game is truly hard. But scorp earring will take you a very long, long time to get if you were truly doing it alone. Being on for every boot/crash to catch the mobs and beating all the competition to it makes it very difficult to get. I'm sure most people who have scorp earring had to have help from others checking boots and getting all the quest components.

Your defination of hard is too limited. Having a group of 15 that spends an hour, or a few hours, to get an equal or superior earring is easier than waiting months for silly rares to load. Zones are easy, quests are easy, but what takes longer?

3/1 is acceptable. Even better stats is even more acceptable and in my opinion justifiable :P
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Postby Waelos » Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:34 am

All I am saying is that if something is soloable, even if by a few people, then the quest is not as hard as others.

Also, using "lots of people try the quest at the same time, therefore its harder" is flawed. Should we upgrade Jot/Musp? Well, everyone rushes to get up there. . . hrmm, makes it harder....therefore, upgrade? I don't think so. =)

The Items on AIrship aren't that hard to get...just takes alot of killing of the same mobs over and over again. That really isn't _hard_ . . . just boring and time consuming.

Is leveling hard? Not really. XP is easy. just takes time.

I really don't think that Time invested can really equate to difficulty. If I told you to check pods for 1-2 years and you would get a +5 +5 5d5 Proc heal/stone/whatever sword if you kill Grandpod. .. would that make it hard? No. It would make you diligent, but getting the item wouldn't be hard. What makes quests _hard_ is figuring out the quest. After Jhorr and I did the quest for the first time, the cat was out of the bag. The dificulty mostly removed. Same goes for any other quest. I didn't do Erlan first, or Kern, or any number of other quests, and I found them infinately easier than I found doing quests for the first time.

That is one reason I support giving 'first time' quest items a bonus. Such as an original name, or an additional +1 hit, or 2hps, or whatever. To reward those people who have the time and wits enough to be questing pioneers.

I haven't done a 'first quest' in a long time, so I really don't say this to be self serving.

Anyway, just wanted to respond.

Lost
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Postby Kifle » Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:18 am

The first to quest idea is pretty cool at justifiable in all respects, but as far as the scorpion earring not being "hard" enough to justify the stats it has or better stats than an ET earring is just poor judgment. If rarity truly has no baring on what stats an item recieves, make all kerns/erlans crappier than what you've already made it. Make invasion gear crap, and everything from clouds crap. I hate to break it to you, but there are no "hard" zones. There haven't been for some time, and with some of the people around now days, there will never ever be a hard zone unless the creaters end up using more cheese tactics like blocking code.

The reason why rare items have better stats is because they inflate slower. With the right 15 man group, you can get a number of seelie bands when ever the mud boots. With the same 15 man group, it could take upwards of 2-3 months to finish a scorp earring, dcult robes, etc... This is why they are good, because they are rare, not because they are hard. If you based all stats on the difficulty to get the items, then they would all be stated like crap. That is why before the changes went in, all of the new zones that had ok or great eq were the ones that took 5+hrs to finish. Not because they were hard, but they took more time. I'd think 2+ months of searching for something that only loads at boot or 20 mins after boot would be worth more than an item from a 3-5hr zone. Maybe logic finally did fail, maybe there's a bias somewhere, maybe we are just partial to the old game rather than the one we are starting to dislike. All I know is the scorp earring got raped, as did a few of the other staple items in the game, while the new "not any harder to get than other things" items got a boots got upgrades/miniscule dgrades/left alone.
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Postby Waelos » Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:03 am

My only point is, there are tons of items as 'rare' as the Scorp earring is. I think the stats were perfect before at 3 / 1. Not sure why people all of a sudden are pushing for 3 / 3 sense life proc kill (an exaggeration, I realize). But really, lets push for balance. 3/1 scorpion earring, with slow poison = balanced in new incarnation . . . all agree? =)

Lost!
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Postby Sarell » Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:24 am

and the 3 ac plz :9....... *touch*

I think it is hard to do scorp earring. Time spent doing something is definately a factor. Personally I find it much easier to zone for 10 hours than to check a zone for rares for 4 months :9. I think most people would have an extremely hard time soloing scorp earring too.

ac3, 3 1, slow poison would be dandy... i think would be nice to hae an earring with the balance towards hitroll so life is spiced up a bi and not just everyone wears the high damage earring.
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Postby Yayaril » Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:42 pm

8)

I think the gods should add some magenta and green into the color scheme of this earring.
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Postby Marthammor » Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:25 pm

Just as a note, players were never effected by the 3ac on the earring as it was flagged wrong. It showed up on identify as being there, but thats it.
Earrings and rings both use one of the two effect fields for ac.
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Postby belleshel » Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:15 pm

What Kifle said.
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Postby Kifle » Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:37 am

Oh, and the reason it wouldn't be really that great, imo, if it was put back to 3/1 is because of the 2/2 earring. 3/1 is worse than 2/2 and the 2/2 earring is exponentially easier to get when all aspects of aquiring eq are taken into account. I have no qualms about putting it back to 3/1 as long as the other earrings such as waters/spob are downgraded to fit the difficulty as well.
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Postby belleshel » Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:41 am

Kifle wrote:Oh, and the reason it wouldn't be really that great, imo, if it was put back to 3/1 is because of the 2/2 earring. 3/1 is worse than 2/2 and the 2/2 earring is exponentially easier to get when all aspects of aquiring eq are taken into account. I have no qualms about putting it back to 3/1 as long as the other earrings such as waters/spob are downgraded to fit the difficulty as well.


What Kifle said...can't believe I keep agreeing with someone that sports a unibrow proudly.
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Postby Waelos » Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:42 am

2/2 is exponentially easier to get? *laugH* What are you smoking? I mean really. There are two 2/2 earrings in the game in what, 8 months? Longer? Jhorr and I had *4* scorpion earrings in just under six months. Whow knows how many others were completed at that point. I can understand people's desire to get some buffed eq out of these changes, but lets try and justify them with some sane arguments. Hell, lets just make the scorp earring +4 +4 beacause its _so_ hard to get! SO Rare!

Gimme a break.

Lost ;)

(Oh and I have two scorp earrings. . .so if y'all wanna up 'em to whatever, Im down. but I hope we're trying to balance the game, not whack it out further!)
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Postby Dalar » Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:46 am

that's only because most of the heart items are going to mages
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Jhorr » Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:05 am

3/1 was a good stat for the earring imo. 2/1 would be good too. it should have some damage on it.
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Postby Kifle » Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:50 am

Waelos wrote:2/2 is exponentially easier to get? *laugH* What are you smoking? I mean really. There are two 2/2 earrings in the game in what, 8 months? Longer? Jhorr and I had *4* scorpion earrings in just under six months. Whow knows how many others were completed at that point. I can understand people's desire to get some buffed eq out of these changes, but lets try and justify them with some sane arguments. Hell, lets just make the scorp earring +4 +4 beacause its _so_ hard to get! SO Rare!

Gimme a break.

Lost ;)

(Oh and I have two scorp earrings. . .so if y'all wanna up 'em to whatever, Im down. but I hope we're trying to balance the game, not whack it out further!)



I'm smoking marlboro lights if you must know. You and Jhorr also did the quest when how many people knew about it? 2? Rares become exponentially harder to get with every person that begins looking for it. Now that the cat is out of the bag on the items and their locations, everybody was looking for these items. I looked for the certain somebody with the hide for a good 5 months every boot/crash i was on during and never had any luck. so while you had it easy, others get screwed because of farmers and the amount of people wanting a scorp earring.

Also, I'm not trying to get my stuff buffed...I agree mostly on everything that was done to my eq except for the earring, the bolty, and quite possibly my surtur but only because the FG crown spanks it just about.
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Postby Kaede » Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:39 pm

Kifle has a good point. When there is no competition for an item it is easy to get despite its rarity. But this isn't the case now is it? Otherwise I'd go solo every Greycloak rare, collect a dozen dragon tattoos, and laugh at how incredibly easy Erlan's quest is.

Scorp earring is hard to get because of:
1. Ultra high competition to get/farm quest items
2. Extreme rarity of the key mob loading in the correct sequence
3. Mobs only load at boot/crash

SPOB earring is hard to get because of:
1. Ultra high competition in bidding for heart
2. 1/4 chance of getting prize
3. SPOB isn't done successfully every boot... yet

Seem pretty even to me. Only reason there are only two SPOB earrings in game is as Dartan said. And people knew about the scorp quest for over two years; the SPOB earring's existence is relatively new knowledge.

If scorps is so easy to get, I challenge you to start the quest from scratch right now and SOLO it as you say is possible (I'd like to watch you solo a level 55 troll backstabber). If you can SOLO a scorp earring with no help within two months, I'll give you two of mine and worship your l33tn3ss forever.

I don't disagree with the stats you're proposing, just with the silliness coming out of your mouth concerning the difficulty of completing the quest now.

Still, a 3/1 earring can't touch a 2/2 PFG earring (uhh, if you don't think this is overpowered then you are out of your nut). A 2/1 slow poison earring is a piece of junk and a joke. A 3 hit earring with lousy bonuses is also a joke.
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Postby belleshel » Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:55 pm

I guess the question that it leaves me is:

Why ever quest a scorpion earring if you can get a superior earring by outbidding a few mages on an easy zone run?
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Postby Nekler BlazingWolf » Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:19 pm

Sorry Kaede, but I have solo'd almost an entire scorp earring in about a week. Only thing I haven't solo'd is the boots, but I haven't really tried.
Granted, I did get lucky on the rares. Found one about 5-6 hours after boot, and the other after boot within two days. The quest mob loaded the next day for mask.

Its all about how the dice roll when the game boots and if you're the lucky one to find the mobs. I'm sure the new system the area's staff is using doesn't figure in the number of people trying to do the quest since that number changes all the time. Once the people that are trying actually get what they are after, then they normally quit. Of course you always have farmers, but they do get tired of trying to farm things as well.
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Postby Kaede » Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:34 pm

Nekler, do it again within two months :)

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