Lich Spells
Lich Spells
I'm still working on a travel type spell for Liches. I do understand that they have some great powers and do not really need something quite the same same as gate, relo, lifewalk etc. So I have a proposal that is limited in scope but still offers a single avenue for travel:
LICH PHYLACTERY
Spell.
Area of effect: <player>
Aggressive: No
Cumulative: N/A
Duration: Until used as held item.
Class/Circle: Lich 10th
Type of spell: Teleportation/Necromancy
Lich Phylactery is a powerful version of the teleport spell that allows
The caster to travel anywhere, accross planes and barriers.
During the casting of this spell the Lich creates a single Phylactery
that magically holds a portion of negative energy life essence that
animates the undead creature and places it in Phylactery. The item
can then be handed to a trusted player.
At a time of his/her choosing the player may invoke the power of the
Phylactery calling to the Lich. The Phylactery, drawing upon the energy
of the Lich will teleport its creator and any beings also tied to its
negative energy (pets) to the holder/invoker of the Phylactery.
If by need the Lich can recall the Phylactery from its holder by drawing
in the negative energy, dispeling the Phylactery canceling the ability of
the holder to invoke the held item.
Discussion: This has some severe limitations linked to some powerful
travel prospects. Its limited by the fact the Lich can not call his/her
destination or its time of use, like relo. It can not be recast and used
quickly either. Since its final use is in the hands of another player.
I think that the Liches total number of HitPoints should be lowered after
casting this spell. Not so many that its a deterent but enough to reflect
a loss of energy that is funneled into the created item.
Its power and usability lies in the ability to cross planes while teleporting
both the Lich and pets.
Class Use: Allows a limited "escape" spell for Liches, somewhat
eliminates the tiresome work of groups or casters spending effort and time
to afford travel to a class that has no travel spells. Allows groups to
regroup in the case of group spanks.
Grunelda
LICH PHYLACTERY
Spell.
Area of effect: <player>
Aggressive: No
Cumulative: N/A
Duration: Until used as held item.
Class/Circle: Lich 10th
Type of spell: Teleportation/Necromancy
Lich Phylactery is a powerful version of the teleport spell that allows
The caster to travel anywhere, accross planes and barriers.
During the casting of this spell the Lich creates a single Phylactery
that magically holds a portion of negative energy life essence that
animates the undead creature and places it in Phylactery. The item
can then be handed to a trusted player.
At a time of his/her choosing the player may invoke the power of the
Phylactery calling to the Lich. The Phylactery, drawing upon the energy
of the Lich will teleport its creator and any beings also tied to its
negative energy (pets) to the holder/invoker of the Phylactery.
If by need the Lich can recall the Phylactery from its holder by drawing
in the negative energy, dispeling the Phylactery canceling the ability of
the holder to invoke the held item.
Discussion: This has some severe limitations linked to some powerful
travel prospects. Its limited by the fact the Lich can not call his/her
destination or its time of use, like relo. It can not be recast and used
quickly either. Since its final use is in the hands of another player.
I think that the Liches total number of HitPoints should be lowered after
casting this spell. Not so many that its a deterent but enough to reflect
a loss of energy that is funneled into the created item.
Its power and usability lies in the ability to cross planes while teleporting
both the Lich and pets.
Class Use: Allows a limited "escape" spell for Liches, somewhat
eliminates the tiresome work of groups or casters spending effort and time
to afford travel to a class that has no travel spells. Allows groups to
regroup in the case of group spanks.
Grunelda
Grunelda,
Unfortunately the use of the word “Phylactery” in a description of a teleport spell is as inappropriate as calling Minor Creation, Magic Missile. Furthermore, it appears you are suggesting a relocate-with-pets-to-a-specific-individual-only-spell, and this I also do not support. Similar discussions have been had about giving lichs relocate, and more importantly, why not to.
If you, or anyone else for that matter (because of the recent rush on lich/necro suggestions); would like to read up on the discussions that have already been had about the various aspects of necromancers and lichs, and to perhaps understand more where some of us are coming from, I heartedly implore you to please read up on the following threads:
Necromancer Vs Lich
http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/v ... hp?t=14931
Lich Vs Necro Curiosity
http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/v ... hp?t=14767
Lichs talking about Lichs, undead, and the dead.
http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/v ... hp?t=14318
Please note, the last thread is about to receive a large update from me on how D&D lichs would be if we really plugged them completely into the MUD. I feel this is important to show now what we would have on our hands if we accurate to the books. The recent supplement, Libris Mortis, for the first time actually deals with the Lich in D&D as a player race/class, instead of just a mob template, and has therefore become an invaluable aid.
Please understand, I do agree that Lichs need a Phylactery aspect added to them, but what you’re suggesting sounds more like a Soul Link/Walk kind of thing, and not a way of handling ‘lich bodily destruction and resurrection’, as is the actual job of a lich’s Phylactery.
I always appreciate enthusiasm for new ideas about one of my two main classes, and hope you keep at it, but please understand it can be frustrating when they are ‘dead horse’ issues.
:\
Unfortunately the use of the word “Phylactery” in a description of a teleport spell is as inappropriate as calling Minor Creation, Magic Missile. Furthermore, it appears you are suggesting a relocate-with-pets-to-a-specific-individual-only-spell, and this I also do not support. Similar discussions have been had about giving lichs relocate, and more importantly, why not to.
If you, or anyone else for that matter (because of the recent rush on lich/necro suggestions); would like to read up on the discussions that have already been had about the various aspects of necromancers and lichs, and to perhaps understand more where some of us are coming from, I heartedly implore you to please read up on the following threads:
Necromancer Vs Lich
http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/v ... hp?t=14931
Lich Vs Necro Curiosity
http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/v ... hp?t=14767
Lichs talking about Lichs, undead, and the dead.
http://www.torilmud.dyndns.org/phpBB2/v ... hp?t=14318
Please note, the last thread is about to receive a large update from me on how D&D lichs would be if we really plugged them completely into the MUD. I feel this is important to show now what we would have on our hands if we accurate to the books. The recent supplement, Libris Mortis, for the first time actually deals with the Lich in D&D as a player race/class, instead of just a mob template, and has therefore become an invaluable aid.
Please understand, I do agree that Lichs need a Phylactery aspect added to them, but what you’re suggesting sounds more like a Soul Link/Walk kind of thing, and not a way of handling ‘lich bodily destruction and resurrection’, as is the actual job of a lich’s Phylactery.
I always appreciate enthusiasm for new ideas about one of my two main classes, and hope you keep at it, but please understand it can be frustrating when they are ‘dead horse’ issues.
:\
-
- Sojourner
- Posts: 3923
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Waterdeep
Vahok, thats basically what i was after just a little more spiffyness.
The fact of the matter is that Liches have reached a pinnacle in the realm of magic and cheated death, yet even with all thier years and yaers of magical knowledge thetr cant come up with a single spell to evade tracking melee/combat death?
In the sojourn setting: I will kill my children, explore half the realms and cause others to suffer unimaginably to become a lich, but then I am so stupid I wouldnt learn at least some avenue to keep myself alive and get the hell out of trouble if needed? As it is now you run. when out of moves - you die.
My original idea was a lich only travel spell. Someone else actually had to be in possession of the item that was created by the spell, It was basically Relo but the target had to have the item. So you could not relo anywere but that one target. Now if that is twinkable its also more twinkable with relo already.
Thanks all for posting!
Grunelda
The fact of the matter is that Liches have reached a pinnacle in the realm of magic and cheated death, yet even with all thier years and yaers of magical knowledge thetr cant come up with a single spell to evade tracking melee/combat death?
In the sojourn setting: I will kill my children, explore half the realms and cause others to suffer unimaginably to become a lich, but then I am so stupid I wouldnt learn at least some avenue to keep myself alive and get the hell out of trouble if needed? As it is now you run. when out of moves - you die.
My original idea was a lich only travel spell. Someone else actually had to be in possession of the item that was created by the spell, It was basically Relo but the target had to have the item. So you could not relo anywere but that one target. Now if that is twinkable its also more twinkable with relo already.
Thanks all for posting!
Grunelda
Well in that regard, locate back to guildmaster (how convenient that every lich chooses VT to store their most prized possession :P) would kill all of the twinkiness.
True, every mage can relo to a scouting rogue, but not every mage can relo in with a couple tanks &/| nukers in tow...
I understand the arguments against, but I sure do agree with you Grunelda. When the time comes, it sure would be nice to run away screaming with some chance of success.
True, every mage can relo to a scouting rogue, but not every mage can relo in with a couple tanks &/| nukers in tow...
I understand the arguments against, but I sure do agree with you Grunelda. When the time comes, it sure would be nice to run away screaming with some chance of success.
IMHO liches are far too powerful to NEED a relo/flee type spell
this is going to sound sarcastic but I really dont mean it that way, just trying to illustrate a point
if we give Liches some transport spell ..
will warriors and rogues be next to want one? A-P? Paladin?
You are already a VERY powerful, remorted class ..
as an aside I dont play one nor do I know jack about the class, just a personal, uneducated observation
this is going to sound sarcastic but I really dont mean it that way, just trying to illustrate a point
if we give Liches some transport spell ..
will warriors and rogues be next to want one? A-P? Paladin?
You are already a VERY powerful, remorted class ..
as an aside I dont play one nor do I know jack about the class, just a personal, uneducated observation
Ambar,
rogue anti's and warriors are not spell casters. However as an example, rangers do have a limited escape spell - travel via plants. which like some of the spell ideas mentioned here is limited by the fact you need to be in nature. Asking for something not related to your class is what melee classes would be asking for if they wanted a escape spell.
Now if you said "will warriors want a skill like "shield shatter" that limits a mobs bashing ability" - that would be in class.
Asking for a spell for spell casters is in class.
As a level 50 Lich I *mostly* just want a way to get back in the action after dying, or to catch the group that left for a zone. Sucks to sit in VT and wait for a free caster to come stick you on smoke, etc. especially when you are supposed to be a very powerful caster yourself. Yes warriors have to wait, so do rogues. But they did not by class remort by mastering thier magic and having the singlemindedness of casting off thier lives and souls in the search for more power and immortality. Liches have attempt to beat death at any cost.
Just seems that would continue after lichdom.
rogue anti's and warriors are not spell casters. However as an example, rangers do have a limited escape spell - travel via plants. which like some of the spell ideas mentioned here is limited by the fact you need to be in nature. Asking for something not related to your class is what melee classes would be asking for if they wanted a escape spell.
Now if you said "will warriors want a skill like "shield shatter" that limits a mobs bashing ability" - that would be in class.
Asking for a spell for spell casters is in class.
As a level 50 Lich I *mostly* just want a way to get back in the action after dying, or to catch the group that left for a zone. Sucks to sit in VT and wait for a free caster to come stick you on smoke, etc. especially when you are supposed to be a very powerful caster yourself. Yes warriors have to wait, so do rogues. But they did not by class remort by mastering thier magic and having the singlemindedness of casting off thier lives and souls in the search for more power and immortality. Liches have attempt to beat death at any cost.
Just seems that would continue after lichdom.
Ambar wrote:IMHO liches are far too powerful to NEED a relo/flee type spell
this is going to sound sarcastic but I really dont mean it that way, just trying to illustrate a point
if we give Liches some transport spell ..
will warriors and rogues be next to want one? A-P? Paladin?
You are already a VERY powerful, remorted class ..
as an aside I dont play one nor do I know jack about the class, just a personal, uneducated observation
1st off, I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here. This has been hashed to death in other threads.
Yes, Liches are very powerful, in well controlled circumstances. I think I've described the scenarios I'm referring to in other threads, so I'll save everyone from my moaning again :D
Bottom line is, sh*t happens, and when it does its annoying that:
* Lich is the only caster class without the means to run away. (besides the literal run..)
* When the inevitable corpse happens when 'it' happens, there's no (solo) option but to walk. Without meaninful prots, and without even a fly spell, unless you've a spare stored. Levi just doesn't cut it from VT to oh, IC or ZK. That combined with being unable to sleep to regen some moves is very frustration. Heck, I can't even make it to the chionthar ferry without a 5+ minute pause for mvs.
Yes, beg a well. Yes, beg a gate. I did mention 'solo...' That's the whole reason I went necro/lich in the first place..
*sigh* already longer than intended. *tip*
i did mention it was my personal opinion and that i didnt play the class :)
.........
c 'relo' pcorpse .. oops doesnt work :P other mages have to walk back to CR too :P sure they can gate to make it a tad eeasier, and sure they can put a pcorpse on smoke and relo to town and fish/gate down ...
but gates dont often cooperate when trying to CR .. can take AGES (as long as the walk itself) to get to the corpse :)
.........
c 'relo' pcorpse .. oops doesnt work :P other mages have to walk back to CR too :P sure they can gate to make it a tad eeasier, and sure they can put a pcorpse on smoke and relo to town and fish/gate down ...
but gates dont often cooperate when trying to CR .. can take AGES (as long as the walk itself) to get to the corpse :)
Nekelet wrote:
Couple of ideas:
Maybe VT needs one of those merchant mages you can buy fly spells from.
Keep a few hundred tele potions in VT storage for those rainy days :)
When the inevitable corpse happens when 'it' happens, there's no (solo) option but to walk. Without meaninful prots, and without even a fly spell, unless you've a spare stored. Levi just doesn't cut it from VT to oh, IC or ZK. That combined with being unable to sleep to regen some moves is very frustration. Heck, I can't even make it to the chionthar ferry without a 5+ minute pause for mvs.
Couple of ideas:
Maybe VT needs one of those merchant mages you can buy fly spells from.
Keep a few hundred tele potions in VT storage for those rainy days :)
Nekelet wrote:Yes, beg a well. Yes, beg a gate. I did mention 'solo...' That's the whole reason I went necro/lich in the first place..
I'm sure some of you are well aware of the fact I'm against giving lich's a teleportation enhancement. I still am, I'd just like to point out a VERY IMPORTANT POINT that Nekelet just made, and it appears to have been completely missed, especially by you Ambar.
Lich is a solo class. Everyone knows this, even the staff promotes it as such.
Begging for help to get back to CR yourself, is the complete opposite of being a 'solo' class.
Therefor, Lichs do need an aspect of their class/race resolved when it comes to self CR's. Does this mean give them mage relocate, an enchanter/bard fly, or a shamans spirit walk, or a cleric's word of recall to preven the CR, or even an illusionists feign death? No it doesn't. It means, as undead creatures, Lichs need to have their movement points/ability adjusted appropriately to represent their undead/fatique-LESS forms. Undead do not tire. They are tireless. This should be reflected in an enhancement to their movement points. Pure and simple.
It was proposed to have all lich's permanentlly under the enhanced movement regen rate like that of the Bard's Travel song, and this needs to be implemented.
This would solve the problem of not being able to run far enough away from an enemy, as much as it would in helping a lich return to their corpses without un-solo aid, and ultimately be completely in theme for the class.
Lich is the oddball mage class. They are different. Let's keep them that way. Keep them in theme.
Llaaldara wrote:[Lich is a solo class. Everyone knows this, even the staff promotes it as such.
Begging for help to get back to CR yourself, is the complete opposite of being a 'solo' class.
Rogues are a "solo" class, and they still have to beg for help to CR, if the body's off the prime plane. Not trying to compare apples to oranges here, but no class should be completely autonomous.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'
Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'
Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'
Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'
Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
So you're saying there are rogues, paladins, warriors, anti-paladins that on a regular basis solo Spirit Raven, or DS, or Tower exp, or smoke exp, meilich mages (other then troll warriors), or wutever that actually keep up with the pop? That can do this and gain more net benefit over time by themselves then with atleast one other person?
I personally don't consider doing one mob, and then waiting 5-15 mins or so to heal back up as being a 'solo' designed class. I have a zonable rogue with kickass gear and am aware of the various poisons out there. I don't consider her a solo class by a long shot. Being able to figure out how to take out a difficult and rewarding mob all by yourself, is a grand achievement worthy of respect, this is true, but it doesn't mean the class is a 'solo' designed class. For a class to be intentionally solo designed, it has to be effective and faster at progressing by themselves, then compared to doing it with atleast 1 other person.
I personally don't consider doing one mob, and then waiting 5-15 mins or so to heal back up as being a 'solo' designed class. I have a zonable rogue with kickass gear and am aware of the various poisons out there. I don't consider her a solo class by a long shot. Being able to figure out how to take out a difficult and rewarding mob all by yourself, is a grand achievement worthy of respect, this is true, but it doesn't mean the class is a 'solo' designed class. For a class to be intentionally solo designed, it has to be effective and faster at progressing by themselves, then compared to doing it with atleast 1 other person.
we all seem to be missing the fact i said i dont play the class and that i freely admit i dont know JACK about it ...
if it's movement you want
why not some rejuv type spell for movement points (similar to vigorize)... or store a travel set in the VT inn for CR's along side your backup book set
*shrug*
every class has its disadvantages .. we all see things with our class we'd like changed and/or improved ...
im done now .. not really worth it to argue :)
*hug*
if it's movement you want
why not some rejuv type spell for movement points (similar to vigorize)... or store a travel set in the VT inn for CR's along side your backup book set
*shrug*
every class has its disadvantages .. we all see things with our class we'd like changed and/or improved ...
im done now .. not really worth it to argue :)
*hug*
Ambar wrote:we all seem to be missing the fact i said i dont play the class and that i freely admit i dont know JACK about it ...
Hehehehehehe, that's never stopped you from having an opinion on something before! :) *hug*
Ambar wrote:if it's movement you want
Yes, a more appropriate representation of being tireless reflected in our movement system in some way..
Ambar wrote:why not some rejuv type spell for movement points (similar to vigorize)... or store a travel set in the VT inn for CR's along side your backup book set
...with it in-theme with the class and without blatantly stealing ideas/spells from other classes.
Ta-Da! :)
Priding my view of being blissfully ignorant, I see this: Invokers get gate and relocate but have no pets. Invokers, save for areas, are pretty crappy. Is it area damage that defines them? After 5 force missiles, they suck like anybody else for target damage mostly. That goes to the defining argument that lich is a solo class cuz it's so powerful. There's absolutely no logic in saying they're over powered giving them a means of travel via spell. You lose your pets when you relocate. Maybe giving them a planar pocket spell that is self only, yet lets them peer into it for it to be safe? This isn't overpowered either. I just don't get why this class can't get any type of real mobility spell whatsoever. Necros/Liches (going back to the invoker argument) can possibly save an entire group if the tank dies. They can in the least rescue the tank w/a pet and it allows for the tank to get a brief break while healing or what not. Lich is getting the short end of the schlong by not having a means of travel via spell, and not that puny teleport/dim.
*ponder* nooblet
a) not sure who ya are in game but have you ever played an invoker? an invokers arsenal contains areas, force missiles, sandblasts, and fell frosts... all of which have their place in the game. I have blinded or sil'd mobs with sandstrom multiple times and fell frost para is always a nice treat for a fight...
b) yer making no sense in your argument assuming what you say is true yer saying that invokers are crappy while liches have these cool pets who can rescue tanks etc and since invokers get gate/relo liches should to because liches are getting the short end of the stick?!?!? Based on yer argument it's invokers who are petless that get the short end of the stick (also liches have way more hps than invokers). anyways correct me if i'm wrong.
Pril
a) not sure who ya are in game but have you ever played an invoker? an invokers arsenal contains areas, force missiles, sandblasts, and fell frosts... all of which have their place in the game. I have blinded or sil'd mobs with sandstrom multiple times and fell frost para is always a nice treat for a fight...
b) yer making no sense in your argument assuming what you say is true yer saying that invokers are crappy while liches have these cool pets who can rescue tanks etc and since invokers get gate/relo liches should to because liches are getting the short end of the stick?!?!? Based on yer argument it's invokers who are petless that get the short end of the stick (also liches have way more hps than invokers). anyways correct me if i'm wrong.
Pril
Back to the pure running discussion.
Nekelet, pre lich...
Drat, out of mv..
scan;recl;sleep.
a short time later: wake,run run run..
repeat as required.
Nekelet, now.
Drat, out of mv..
scan;rest;recl.
sit;scan;recl;
news;
sit;scan;recl;
chit-chat;
sit;scan;recl;
chat some more;
sit;scan;recl;
afk for awhile.
You get the picture... As a lich, we can't even move as fast as we could as a necro. And now, necros have relo..
Though I'd still 'miss' planar travel, a ton of my complaints would be resolved with a substantial regen tweak.
Nekelet, pre lich...
Drat, out of mv..
scan;recl;sleep.
a short time later: wake,run run run..
repeat as required.
Nekelet, now.
Drat, out of mv..
scan;rest;recl.
sit;scan;recl;
news;
sit;scan;recl;
chit-chat;
sit;scan;recl;
chat some more;
sit;scan;recl;
afk for awhile.
You get the picture... As a lich, we can't even move as fast as we could as a necro. And now, necros have relo..
Though I'd still 'miss' planar travel, a ton of my complaints would be resolved with a substantial regen tweak.
Pril wrote:To answer yer question Llaaldara (i can't speak for all classes) but as a pallie i used to solo clear ship pop for exp (except the mages and teh naval captain) so by yer definition yes pallies are then a solo class.
Minus the stoning avenger and you wouldn't be doing that, Dork! ;) Try it naked!
I just wanted to say "naked"
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