Trophy from Homeland

For discussion on integrating the players, areas, code, and cool stuff from Homeland into TorilMUD. All discussion welcome.
Lathander
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Trophy from Homeland

Postby Lathander » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:50 am

There is alot of talk about trophy, and we introduced a trophy on Homeland which was too aggressive. We were considering changing the formula before we merged. Take a look at this formula and see what you think about trophy and feel free to discuss.

Understand this is just something from Homeland and in no way applies to Toril so please do not get angry or think the trophy is changing. This is just for the sake of discussion and so folks actually see how trophy could work.

% of xp awarded=100 - {(trophy^2.2)-(3*trophy)+(0.8+trophy)}

Trophy is the % you have of a mob on your trophy list
The trophy check would not be done if the mob's percent on your trophy list was less than 2%. Also, some floor would have to be put in to prevent negative xp.
Gurns
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Re: Trophy from Homeland

Postby Gurns » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:30 am

Lathander wrote:% of xp awarded=100 - {(trophy^2.2)-(3*trophy)+(0.8+trophy)}

Trophy is the % you have of a mob on your trophy list

IMO, this is overly complicated and not nearly harsh enough.

Why should trophy be harsh? The only reason I can see to have a trophy at all is to get folks going to lots of different areas. If trophy is not harsh, they can go do DS for a while, Randar's for a while, ship for a while, then back to DS. With your formula, if someone has 3% on a mob, they still get 95% of the xp. If they have 5% on a mob, they still get 76% of the xp. I doubt that's enough of a penalty to make a difference. It won't get folks out of the usual zones.

I think if trophy is to be effective, you want it to be something like:
if trophy < 1 { % of xp awarded = 100 }
else { % of xp awarded = 100*(1/trophy) }

At 1% or below, you get full xp. At 2%, you get half xp. At 4%, you get a quarter xp.

If that penalty starts too soon, then one could use:
if trophy < 2 { % of xp awarded = 100 }
else { % of xp awarded = 100*[1/(trophy-1)] }

Full xp to 2%, half xp at 3%, a quarter xp at 5%.
Lathander
Staff Member - Areas
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Postby Lathander » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:30 am

So folks don't have to put the formula into excel and play with it, here are the results:

2 = 98.6
3 = 93.98
4 = 86
5 = 74.7
6 = 59.68
7 = 40.8
8 = 18
8.68 = .4, close to 0

Gurns, yours would look like this using the second formula you used.

2 = 100
3 = 50
4 = 33
5 = 25
6 = 20
7 = 16.5
8 = 14

The initial trophy we used on Homeland was similar to your idea Gurns. We lost about half the pbase in a couple of days. The problem is if you notice, where is the biggest penalty? It is actually from 2% to 3%. While the first formula is slightly more complicated that's what you need to do to get a progressive result.
Gurns
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Postby Gurns » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:04 am

Lathander wrote:The initial trophy we used on Homeland was similar to your idea Gurns. We lost about half the pbase in a couple of days.

Oh, well, if you're going to worry about the pbase, then you should eliminate trophy entirely. If we make the reasonable assumption that any increase in difficulty or time will drive away someone, then any trophy is too harsh, including your formula.

That's not quite correct. One could probably make trophy harsher if one counteracted it somehow, with no likely loss of pbase. Reduce the xp tables? Give xp for exploring? Make xp quests? Make more, easier xp zones? There have been numerous suggestions over the years. But if you're going to mess with the trophy formula, then you'd have to do something besides messing with the formula. And what you do will reflect and affect what you think trophy should do.

What do you think trophy should do? Why? When do you want it to kick in? How much do you want to force people to pay attention to it? And what are you going to add to counteract a harsher trophy? I think all those things could affect the formula you would ultimately want.

I know what I'd want, and why, but that's obviously not the imm perspective. :)
Yasden
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Postby Yasden » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:11 pm

I'd be all for that formula if the exp in actual zones was increased dramatically, and the exp in "xp zones" was lowered by 50%.

Trophy should be a punishment for living somewhere and exping, not trying to regain the exp you lost dying 10x in BC/IC2/Magma.
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Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:39 am

An upgrade in trophy does require an increase in zone exp or the lowering of exp tables. Tables have been played with befoer so there is precedent there before everyone starts hollering about not changing people levels or %.

I like Lathander's equation due to the progressive nature of trophy, as pointed out, the 50% drop on the second equation proposed is a bit wierd. I think having hard trophy would actually improve player retention, as people would be out and about from word go, rather than being told, just sit here doing nothing (exping in DS) for 5 RL days then you get to play the game!

I'd make trophy much steeper still. I don't think you should get exp if you are at 3% from a single mob. How many different level 50 mobs are there?
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rylan
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Postby rylan » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:05 pm

Problem is, you die a few times in a zone and lose level, and your trophy will be so hosed that it'll take forever to get your level back.

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