privacy over your own body?

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kiryan
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privacy over your own body?

Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:47 pm

http://www.ktvq.com/news/judge-orders-h ... t-appeals/

Its rare that we see a case like this, but it illustrates that our government does believe that its power is unlimited.

This woman was ordered to have a hysterectomy after testimony by her doctor that cancer would kill her in 3 years. She was essentially declared not mentally comptent to make that decision... apparently because she believed God "had" cured her cancer when a doctor was testifying that was false.

What do you think? Mentally incomptent and proper action by the government, or a failure to respect her "privacy" of her body?
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby Sarvis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:00 pm

kiryan wrote:http://www.ktvq.com/news/judge-orders-hysterectomy-patient-appeals/

Its rare that we see a case like this, but it illustrates that our government does believe that its power is unlimited.

This woman was ordered to have a hysterectomy after testimony by her doctor that cancer would kill her in 3 years. She was essentially declared not mentally comptent to make that decision... apparently because she believed God "had" cured her cancer when a doctor was testifying that was false.

What do you think? Mentally incomptent and proper action by the government, or a failure to respect her "privacy" of her body?


Are you honestly trying to state this woman wasn't delusional?
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kiryan
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:09 pm

So if she's a fully functional person in society... capable and repeatedly demonstrated rational thought in all areas except apparently with her cancer... should she be compelled to undergo EXTREMELY INVASIVE medical treatment AGAINST HER WISHES, because she believes something irrational.

beyond that, why does the government have the authority to force you to prolong your own life by medical intervention. Should the government be able to force you to extend your own life by eating veggies too? Maybe only if you irratinoally believe that eating McDonald's is ok?
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby Sarvis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:34 pm

kiryan wrote:So if she's a fully functional person in society... capable and repeatedly demonstrated rational thought in all areas except apparently with her cancer... should she be compelled to undergo EXTREMELY INVASIVE medical treatment AGAINST HER WISHES, because she believes something irrational.

beyond that, why does the government have the authority to force you to prolong your own life by medical intervention. Should the government be able to force you to extend your own life by eating veggies too? Maybe only if you irratinoally believe that eating McDonald's is ok?


Look Kiryan, I understand this is a very personal issue for you. But if she's incapable of making a decision because she's insane/mentally handicapped/retarded then who does make the decision?

I don't feel like arguing this, but I think she's clearly nuts if she's choosing to believe the cancer just "went away" despite what doctors are telling her. She wasn't choosing to just die to the cancer either, she just believed it was gone. She was not mentally capable of making a decision.
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:44 pm

it should be a personal issue for all of us sarvis. this woman is not crazy.

she is mentally competent but has some irrational beliefs. Are all your belief's rational? Who determines what is rational... the doctor, judge and government?

this is in the similar vein to thinking that no rational person would'nt buy healthcare... so we can force everyone to buy it no? no rational person wouldn't eat vegetables, can we force that too by court order? My dad believes some people never get cancer and that he is one of them (his father chain smoked until he died at 90 not from cancer), should we get a court order to force my dad to stop smoking because its irrational to harm your body like that?

a woman gets an ultrasound and it shows her baby has no cerebellum, but decides to have the baby anyway. Should we get a court order forcing her to abort? There was a recent article on a 3 year old who was born with either no cerebellum or one so small its undetectable, doctors are quoted as saying he has the "MRI of a vegetable". Is there any doubt what their recommendation would've been had they detected this in utero?
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby Sarvis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:59 pm

kiryan wrote:this woman is not crazy.


It is no surprise at all that you think she's not crazy.
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby Ragorn » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:08 pm

People should be allowed to die if they believe that faith can heal them. Unless she's been formally diagnosed and committed, there should be no obligation from the state to keep her alive.
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:13 pm

I can agree with you on that to a point on individuals who are committed and are essentially wards of the state.

It does appear she was formally diagnosed by a state psch as having delusions with regards to at least this specific area of her life. this is where I fundamentally disagree with the state stepping in and forcing her to get treatment when she appears to be an otherwise "sane" person.
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:13 pm

It seems that the government acted appropriately in attempting to save this woman's life.

It's too bad that it did so using a brutal display of government force.
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby Ashiwi » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:13 am

Unless she's been judged to be incompetent in other aspects of her life, as well as this one, then she should be allowed to make her own decisions where her health is concerned. People who don't believe in getting medical care should be allowed to suffer with their illnesses if that's their religious choice.

I don't, however, believe in allowing people to let their children die due to lack of medical care for a known illness, even for their religion.
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby Corth » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Ragorn wrote:People should be allowed to die if they believe that faith can heal them. Unless she's been formally diagnosed and committed, there should be no obligation from the state to keep her alive.


Agreed.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby Corth » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:38 pm

Ashiwi wrote:I don't, however, believe in allowing people to let their children die due to lack of medical care for a known illness, even for their religion.


Agreed
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
kiryan
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:54 pm

I think that the government's "protection" of minors in regards to medical treatment often goes too far. It violates the parent's right to raise their children... a violation of the parent's religious practices... and often times a violation of the child's same rights additionally including their right to the privacy of their body.

I would be more inclined to support government intervention when the child wants treatment but the parent's won't give consent... but I can't support cases where an older child's right to privacy is trumped by government's declaration that they are not legally able to make decisions. For example the relatively mature 14 yo who wanted to refuse cancer treatment.
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby Corth » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:09 pm

Children are not capable of making up their own mind. While you can argue that an irrational adult should be allowed to refuse treatment, you have to take into account that the only person potentially being harmed is the irrational person. Allowing an irrational parent to cause someone else unnecessary pain, suffering, and perhaps death, is not acceptable - period.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
kiryan
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:14 pm

I don't like it... but the logic is hard to consistently argue against.

the good news is that should end the debate on parental notification and consent for abortions.
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Re: privacy over your own body?

Postby Corth » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:16 pm

Agreed on parental consent/notification for abortions. It's the product of some sort of social insanity that anyone could ever believe that a child should be allowed to undergo an unnecessary surgical procedure without getting the permission of a parent.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.

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