the ultimate in regulation retardation.

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the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:40 pm

In Miami they are talking about banning people from feeding the homeless without proper training. Seriously... they don't think you should be allowed to feed a homeless person. They feel that in order to protect homeless people from bad food, they'll just threaten you a $300 ticket if you dare to try and help.

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY are we this f*king retarded?

If I was really crazy, I'd say its all an attempt to force homeless into shelters by taking away their ability to live off the grid. I'd claim that they are doing this so they can find out who cares enough about the homeless and connect them into community organizing and non profit type work. I'd argue that they want the homeless in shelters so they can demand more tax dollars or that they want the homeless to move out of town. but the sad truth is probably that they actually believe they are them, making their lives better. Its so obvious and yet so insane I don't know whether to laugh, cry or just end it.

Miami Considers Ban on Feeding the Homeless Without Training

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02 ... latestnews

The Miami City Commission is set to consider a proposal next month that would prohibit unauthorized people and groups from feeding the homeless downtown, an ordinance proponents say will cut down on litter and ensure the safety of the food the homeless do eat.
...
Though the change could draw objections, David Karsh, spokesman for Development Authority Chairman Marc Sarnoff, said the rule isn't a blanket ban. He said that anybody would be able to feed the homeless, but they would have to go through formal training first -- amateurs couldn't just give up part of their lunch to help someone they meet on the street.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby teflor the ranger » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:44 am

Well, a meal that gives you diarrhea can actually be less nutritious than having not eaten. Don't really know how that translates into a cost benefit analysis though.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Sarvis » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:53 am

kiryan wrote:If I was really crazy,


If? Really?
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Corth » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:50 am

At the risk of creating another all about Sarvis thread...

It's posts like that last one which kind of show (to me at least) an unbalanced personality. For instance.. I suspect that if I met Ragorn, Kiryan, Avak, Kifle, etc. irl we could have a political debate and still enjoy a beer afterwards. The political debate thing here is more or less a game. You take shots at the other side, they take shots at you. For some people it's fun, and if you are more or less well balanced you don't take it too personally. But with you.. I feel like you actually personally dislike people who disagree with your ideas. That just strikes me as weird.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Sarvis » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:28 pm

Corth wrote:At the risk of creating another all about Sarvis thread...

It's posts like that last one which kind of show (to me at least) an unbalanced personality. For instance.. I suspect that if I met Ragorn, Kiryan, Avak, Kifle, etc. irl we could have a political debate and still enjoy a beer afterwards. The political debate thing here is more or less a game. You take shots at the other side, they take shots at you. For some people it's fun, and if you are more or less well balanced you don't take it too personally. But with you.. I feel like you actually personally dislike people who disagree with your ideas. That just strikes me as weird.



Several days ago Kiryan said he was only kept from flying an airplane into buildings because of his family.

You count that as sane?

It's not about disagreeing with my ideas, it's about his shown personality and deeply held beliefs. So yeah, I don't like Kiryan very much... but I disagree with you on just as many things and I like you.

Take that as a sign of me being crazy too if you want, but you're just doing the same thing I am at that point.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:53 am

Sarvis wrote:
Corth wrote:At the risk of creating another all about Sarvis thread...

It's posts like that last one which kind of show (to me at least) an unbalanced personality. For instance.. I suspect that if I met Ragorn, Kiryan, Avak, Kifle, etc. irl we could have a political debate and still enjoy a beer afterwards. The political debate thing here is more or less a game. You take shots at the other side, they take shots at you. For some people it's fun, and if you are more or less well balanced you don't take it too personally. But with you.. I feel like you actually personally dislike people who disagree with your ideas. That just strikes me as weird.



Several days ago Kiryan said he was only kept from flying an airplane into buildings because of his family.

You count that as sane?

It's not about disagreeing with my ideas, it's about his shown personality and deeply held beliefs. So yeah, I don't like Kiryan very much... but I disagree with you on just as many things and I like you.

Take that as a sign of me being crazy too if you want, but you're just doing the same thing I am at that point.

Actually, Sarvis, I get the feeling you would probably like Kiryan if you met him in person. I would suggest that you think about what exactly it is that Kiryan means. While you take him saying that he would probably be flying planes into buildings without his family as his being insane, think about what would happen if you lost your family - or if any number of people out there lose theirs. There are legions of homeless, wandering soldiers, and mentally ill people who once had a family and were perfectly fine before something happened.

So, perhaps what he is doing is showing a self-awareness that many other people don't have, rather than betraying any secret psychopathy.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Sarvis » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:17 am

He didn't say if he LOST his family Tef, he said if he had never had one. Not that flying an airplane into an IRS building would net any sort of revenge for losing your family anyway.

We're talking about the same guy who said he probably wouldn't try to save one of his drowning kids.

The same guy who thinks God speaks to him and tells him how the Bible is misinterpreted by the church and everyone else.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:38 am

Miami FTL :(
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:00 am

Sarvis understood me. I could very easily be one of these crazies if it wasn't for my family tying me to society. I really have very little desire to continue living outside of my family. I don't see the point, you work and slave for what, the weekends? Simpsons? clearing L4D2 bridge on expert? Seeing castles in Europe? 10 seconds of orgasm a couple times a day? What's the point, just end it and might as well do some good while you're at it!

I ought to give religion some credit too because one of the reasons I started studying it was I wanted to be pretty sure it wasn't for real before I choose the path of delinquency or suicide. I was pretty aethiestic as a child because I was so focused on science. I learned God's purpose for my life, relationships, even if I'm not all that thrilled about it. So... you might want to reconsider how important religion is in society if you don't want people like me running around blowing shit up because we honestly can't find a reason not to.

That being said, I'd like to think we could still have a beer at a pub, ogle at women, talk shit about each other's point of views and political representatives and avoid getting into a fist fight or having to leave because we think the other person is that stupid. We should probably throw something homo in there like grabbing Ragorn's ass and giving him a wink. thats of course assuming they have guiness, the only beer worth drinkin.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:15 am

But Corth is also right... A lot of this is just banter, scoring some cheap shots, exercise in defending your opinions and points of view. Occasionally learning something. Whats wrong with a little trash talk amongst friends. When I hang out with folks, it usually starts with my claim to be african from the waist down and ends with me being the butt of every joke lol.

We have a righteously funny time. don't sweat the small single engine aircrafts crashing into federal buildigns!
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:55 pm

Sarvis wrote:He didn't say if he LOST his family Tef, he said if he had never had one. Not that flying an airplane into an IRS building would net any sort of revenge for losing your family anyway.

We're talking about the same guy who said he probably wouldn't try to save one of his drowning kids.

The same guy who thinks God speaks to him and tells him how the Bible is misinterpreted by the church and everyone else.

Sarvis, it wasn't specifically about losing family, so to speak. I said lost because he has a family. The main point was to consider what ties an individual to society - what makes them want to do the things that everyone else does.

When you lose the things, or never had them, the ties you have to this world become long, tenuous, and particularly fragile. There are many parents that wouldn't lift a finger for what you would consider a drowning child, and that Kiryan has his own ideas about the bible and religion should be something encouraging to liberals.

I think that it is very possible that you've misunderstood Kiryan as a person (not necessarily what he says), but in interpreting what he says to determine who he is. In having his own ideas about religion, tough-minded parenting values, and a strong self-understanding of how he connects his world to reality, I see nothing objectionable and perhaps you will too.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Sarvis » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:08 pm

I know I'm going to regret this...

teflor the ranger wrote:Sarvis, it wasn't specifically about losing family, so to speak. I said lost because he has a family. The main point was to consider what ties an individual to society - what makes them want to do the things that everyone else does.


I've had nothing "tying" me to society for a long time except the very rare woman who dumps me at EXACTLY the moment I think we're at the point of being in a relationship.

Yet I've never wanted to kill random people. Something about, oh I don't know, being sane? Or maybe not AS insane at least. See, I care about people and humanity. I know that's as alien a concept to you as to Kiryan, but THAT'S what keeps most people from going on a murderous rampage. People who want to kill others because of their problems or lack of connections are generally psychopaths, and the funny thing is they don't need to lack connections. Charles Manson never had any problems in that department, he had a huge family of people to do his bidding. His disconnect was from caring, not from people. Like Kiryan.

He's only acting sane because he views his family as a responsibility.

and that Kiryan has his own ideas about the bible and religion should be something encouraging to liberals.


No, he has a disembodied voices ideas about the Bible. Had he his own I'd be far less disturbed by him.

That's generally associated with schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, Psychotic Depression, and Multiple Personalities.

So yeah, I might not quite feel safe having a beer or two with Kiryan. Sorry.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:20 pm

Sarvis wrote:I've had nothing "tying" me to society for a long time except the very rare woman who dumps me at EXACTLY the moment I think we're at the point of being in a relationship.

But just enough is enough, isn't it?

Sarvis wrote:See, I care about people and humanity. I know that's as alien a concept to you as to Kiryan, but THAT'S what keeps most people from going on a murderous rampage.

See, now that you are going to regret because that's just retarded. How you came to this conclusion (particularly concerning me) is beyond me.

Sarvis wrote:People who want to kill others because of their problems or lack of connections are generally psychopaths, and the funny thing is they don't need to lack connections. Charles Manson never had any problems in that department, he had a huge family of people to do his bidding. His disconnect was from caring, not from people. Like Kiryan.

Yes, yes, Kiryan has killed and will kill again. You know, except that he hasn't, so obviously, he's not disconnected from caring. I think you just severely misunderstand how he expresses it and chooses to express himself.

Sarvis wrote:He's only acting sane because he views his family as a responsibility.

While I doubt Kiryan is the Secret Destroyer, there have been times where he hasn't had a family. On top of that, the effort to act sane seems to be more deserving of praise than merely being sane. It's something many sociopaths, autistics, and many other human beings have to struggle with on a daily basis. It doesn't make them lesser human beings.

Sarvis wrote:No, he has a disembodied voices ideas about the Bible. Had he his own I'd be far less disturbed by him.
That's generally associated with schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, Psychotic Depression, and Multiple Personalities.

You know, Sarvis, a lot of people say that their deity speaks to them. It would be less disturbing to you, perhaps, if you met more people.

Sarvis wrote:So yeah, I might not quite feel safe having a beer or two with Kiryan. Sorry.

It is certainly your right to feel uncomfortable or to be paranoid about what you don't know or understand. That so much is human nature.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:08 pm

In retrospect, I sound very critical in my previous post. Let me apologize if you were offended. My point was more to make that sanity is very vaguely defined, and Kiryan is by all measures 'sane.' The differences in people and their opinions drive the diversity that gives our country and our culture strength and resilience. I hope that you will keep your mind open about Kiryan and other people, like myself.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:23 pm

wow, now i'm a little scrared of you sarvis. and you think you're the open minded one. LOL
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Sarvis » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:28 pm

Scared? Why? The absolute worst I'd do is whine about being lonely and how I miss Hanh.

I'm not going to fly an airplane into your house over it.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:33 am

Sarvis wrote:Scared? Why? The absolute worst I'd do is whine about being lonely and how I miss Hanh.

I'm not going to fly an airplane into your house over it.

Hopefully, either a lot or nothing changes in the next 20 years :D
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:56 pm

I didn't feel like starting a whole new thread, but this kind of crap is stupid. This chick needs a several thousand dollar permit to sell $2,500 a year of produce from her 4500 sqft garden in Oakland.

An official is spot on here, he says the problem is the rules that were written 50 years ago. However he got the solution wrong, the solution is not to write new rules its to write no rules.

and yes, i get that she "should" be regulated because she might be selling stuff that makes people sick, but really... the government's 'duty' to protect people has gone too far. Some day we're going to wake up in a padded room that the government has put us in to protect us from ourselves.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1INHVU.DTL

The news stunned the region's urban farmers and their supporters, who questioned how a fundamental human task that goes back millennia could become illegal.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Sarvis » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:39 pm

kiryan wrote:I didn't feel like starting a whole new thread, but this kind of crap is stupid. This chick needs a several thousand dollar permit to sell $2,500 a year of produce from her 4500 sqft garden in Oakland.

An official is spot on here, he says the problem is the rules that were written 50 years ago. However he got the solution wrong, the solution is not to write new rules its to write no rules.

and yes, i get that she "should" be regulated because she might be selling stuff that makes people sick, but really... the government's 'duty' to protect people has gone too far. Some day we're going to wake up in a padded room that the government has put us in to protect us from ourselves.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1INHVU.DTL

The news stunned the region's urban farmers and their supporters, who questioned how a fundamental human task that goes back millennia could become illegal.


On the question of sanity... how is digging up a thread from over a year ago easier than just making a new one?
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:55 pm

Didn't say easier, but it is. Don't have to restate the same arguments.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:15 pm

Sarvis wrote:On the question of sanity... how is digging up a thread from over a year ago easier than just making a new one?

Some people form arguments on a basis other than uninformed feelings, and thus have reason to reference, use, or cite previous arguments.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Kifle » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:25 pm

kiryan wrote:I didn't feel like starting a whole new thread, but this kind of crap is stupid. This chick needs a several thousand dollar permit to sell $2,500 a year of produce from her 4500 sqft garden in Oakland.

An official is spot on here, he says the problem is the rules that were written 50 years ago. However he got the solution wrong, the solution is not to write new rules its to write no rules.

and yes, i get that she "should" be regulated because she might be selling stuff that makes people sick, but really... the government's 'duty' to protect people has gone too far. Some day we're going to wake up in a padded room that the government has put us in to protect us from ourselves.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1INHVU.DTL

The news stunned the region's urban farmers and their supporters, who questioned how a fundamental human task that goes back millennia could become illegal.


I agree completely. Most people know that it is risky buying produce from unregulated sources, so the market would necessarily show that. If I have a choice to buy an orange from Suzzie Sellssomefruit for $1 which is unregulated or from walmart for $1.10 which is regulated, I'm going to spend the "premium" for regulated produce. Those who want to save the money can purchase the risky stuff. Which is not to say that there is a high risk, but at a certain dollar amount, I'm willing to play it safe.

I also dislike the "protection" the government offers through most of these regulatory acts or victimless crime laws. All it is doing is allowing the world to overpopulate faster, stunt evolution, and create an economy with too little scarce resources with too many desiring those resources. Sure, I don't like it when people die, but I dislike stupid people even more. I feel that if they can't accurately assess the risks, nature should be able to dole out consequences as they were intended.

And the argument that poor people would be forced into having to buy the unregulated is silly for two reasons (just in case someone was planning on making that argument). The first is that they could choose to not eat produce at all. Nature does not intend everyone to get the same. If that were the case, there would be bananas growing naturally in my state. They could eat multivitamins, crap food, and exercise. You would find they'd be plenty healthy. Unfortunately, most of these people will eat crap food, not exercise, and could care less about vitamins. This leads to the second point. Natural selection. If they can't manage their finances well enough to purchase the needs over the wants, which most families with two jobs even in poor districts can do, they aren't deserving. If they incorrectly analyze the risk, they should be removed from the gene pool. Sure, some good apples will slip through the cracks on the way side, but that is life.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Sun May 01, 2011 6:53 am

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... k-locally/

“It is the FDA’s position that raw milk should never be consumed,” said Tamara N. Ward, spokeswoman for the FDA

== Again, good think we have the government to tell us what to and not to drink.

“I look at this as the FDA is in cahoots with the large milk producers,”

== I do too, but on the other hand, there are laws and this guy has been ignoring them. Thumb your nose at the government at your own risk.

Many raw-milk drinkers say they feel much healthier after changing over to it, and insist they should have the freedom of choice regarding their food.

== I agree too.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says there is no health benefit from raw milk that cannot be obtained from pasteurized milk.

== The truth council has spoken, assimilate this knowlege and cast aspersions on the character of all those who choose a differnet way.

Acting on those conclusions, the FDA uses its regulatory powers over food safety to ban interstate sales of raw milk and has warned several farms to change their practices.

== We really need to start taking power back from these ass clowns.

She first did what’s called cow sharing, which is when a group of people buy shares in owning a cow, and pay a farmer to board and milk the cow. But Maryland outlawed that practice and she was forced to look elsewhere for raw milk, and turned to Mr. Allgyer’s farm.

== Tyranny of the majority at its best. Of course it was really just a scheme to get around the prohibition on the sale of raw milk, but its ridiculous that the government decides whats good then uses every power possible to nudge you towards what they decide is best for you.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sun May 01, 2011 4:06 pm

Among dairy product-associated outbreaks reported to CDC between 1973 and 2008 in which the investigators reported whether the product was pasteurized or raw, 82% were due to raw milk or cheese. From 1998 through 2008, 86 outbreaks due to consumption of raw milk or raw milk products were reported to CDC. These resulted in 1,676 illnesses, 191 hospitalizations, and 2 deaths. Most of these illnesses were caused by Escherichia coli O157, Campylobacter, or Salmonella. It is important to note that a substantial proportion of the raw milk-associated disease burden falls on children; among the 86 raw dairy product outbreaks from 1998 to 2008, 79% involved at least one person less than 20 years old.


http://www.cdc.gov/Features/RawMilk/

Actually, it appears the risks associated with unpasteurized milk are quite low.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Sun May 01, 2011 6:49 pm

Rather than dispute its actual danger level, why not just compare it to legal products like alcohol, tobacco and over the counter drugs. Lets add raw fish to the list, I mean selling raw fish is much more dangerous, maybe government man should require the selling of cooked foods only... or maybe just require we eat in their cafeterias so they can make sure we are getting the right balance of healthy food they deem is appropriate.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Sun May 01, 2011 6:54 pm

and related, a move towards allowing people to make food and sell it. you don't have to be a criminal for holding a bake sale.

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-cottage-f ... al+News%29

Farmers who want to prepare and sell foods at home hope the Colorado Legislature joins more than a dozen other states with a "cottage foods" designation. It's a sort of in-between step between giving away homemade foods to neighbors and going commercial, which requires government oversight some farmers say isn't worth navigating just to sell small batches of food.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Yayaril » Sun May 01, 2011 10:44 pm

Raw milk can cause tuberculosis. I don't mind if people want to drink raw milk and get tb themselves, but since it is communicable, I'm going to ask for the government to step in and stop it at the source.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon May 02, 2011 1:27 am

Ah yes, the politics of fear.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Mon May 02, 2011 4:40 pm

Yayaril wrote:Raw milk can cause tuberculosis. I don't mind if people want to drink raw milk and get tb themselves, but since it is communicable, I'm going to ask for the government to step in and stop it at the source.


smoking causes cancer, alcohol causes drunk driving deaths, soda causes obestiy, air pollution from cars causes all sorts of crap. All these can impact you directly. Why not stop them at their source too?
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Ragorn » Mon May 02, 2011 4:45 pm

I agree. We should ban smoking in public and drunk driving, and we should impose regulations on emissions from cars.

Oh wait.

We do.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon May 02, 2011 7:29 pm

Ragorn wrote:I agree. We should ban smoking in public and drunk driving, and we should impose regulations on emissions from cars.

Oh wait.

We do.

Only to a degree, which varies greatly.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Ragorn » Mon May 02, 2011 8:07 pm

Just like we regulate, to a degree, what foods can and cannot be sold by private individuals. We done here?
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Teflor Lyorian
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon May 02, 2011 8:08 pm

Ragorn wrote:Just like we regulate, to a degree, what foods can and cannot be sold by private individuals. We done here?

Actually, raw milk in most states is outright banned as a food.

Or do you not understand the difference between banning smoking in a restaurant and banning the sales of cigarettes?
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Tue May 03, 2011 3:36 pm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... k-locally/

Feds sting Amish farmer selling raw milk locally

"A yearlong sting operation, including aliases, a 5 a.m. surprise inspection and surreptitious purchases from an Amish farm in Pennsylvania, culminated in the federal government announcing this week that it has gone to court to stop Rainbow Acres Farm from selling its contraband to willing customers in the Washington area.

The product in question: unpasteurized milk."


Your tax dollars at work. A yearlong sting operation.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Wed May 04, 2011 5:16 am

http://www.latimes.com/health/boostersh ... ?track=rss

Low levels of salt consumption are associated with a higher rate of cardiovascular disease and deaths, European researchers reported Tuesday, but U.S. experts promptly criticized the study, which contradicts the prevailing dietary wisdom.

== since we're adopting their form of government, maybe we should listen to their health recommendations to!

== wait a minute, someone alert the truth council, evil europeans spreading lies! Our experts know that salt is bad for you.

The level of salt in the diet has been a highly controversial topic for at least two decades. Opponents of salt argue, and several studies have shown, that higher levels of salt increase blood pressure and are associated with higher rates of cardiovascular disease and deaths from heart attacks. Proponents, however, argue that only a small proportion of the population, at best, is susceptible to the deleterious effects of salt and that the rest of the populace should not have to give up the flavor-enhancing effects of the food additive. In that group, some have even suggested, low salt intake might even be deleterious.

== salt deniers. birthers! A highly controversial topic for at least 2 decades huh, wow according to the govenrment this too is settled science.

Despite this controversy, there have been growing efforts to decrease the amount of salt in food.

== government knows best!

The researchers observed 50 deaths in the third of the subjects with the lowest salt consumption, 24 in the third with mid-range consumption and 10 in the third with the highest consumption. The risk of cardiovascular disease was 56% higher in the third of the group with the lowest salt intake. No association between salt intake and hypertension was observed. Increased intake of sodium was associated with an increase in systolic blood pressure, but all the subjects had a low enough blood pressure at the beginning of the study that the increase did not boost them into a hypertensive category.

== as much as I make fun, a study in europe... with their dietary habits vs our dietary habits... is probably not a good study to base our policy off of. However, we're taught salt is bad. Not that salt is bad for American diets, or salt is bad for black people, salt is bad and we must regulate it.

The results do "not support the current recommendations of a generalized and indiscriminate reduction of salt intake at the population level," the authors wrote.

== what do the euros know anyways?

Blacks and other ethnic groups are also much more susceptible to hypertension and the effects of salt, so the results may not be generalizable to the population at large.

== so why is it that we all have to eat less salt?

"Perhaps we should target the groups that would benefit the most: those who are at high risk for cardiovascular disease, those who are sodium sensitive, blacks, older people and those who are already hypertensive.... Targeting those groups would give the biggest bang for the buck."

== cuz that would be racism.

But Michael F. Jacobson, executive director of the Center for Science in the Public Interest, argued that we should begin intervening while people are still healthy: "My view is that one flawed, but new, paper shouldn't distract people from the enormous evidence from epidemiology, animal, clinical and intervention studies that, as the Institute of Medicine affirmed last year, reducing sodium levels in packaged and restaurant food would save thousands of lives a year and should be required by the Food and Drug Administration."

== yep you should be forced to live your life how the government tells you too. in a manner that results in you being the healthiest you can be. Pretty soon we're going to mandate everyone ride their bicycle to work 1 day a week, restrict the sale of cows milk in favor of soy milk and ban the sale of meat in restaurants on Fridays all in the interests of public health. Oh and you'll have to pay a unhealthy tax when you order a meat lover's pizza.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Wed May 04, 2011 4:12 pm

There might be a better thread to throw this in, but it seems to go with my last post

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AutismNews ... d=13518453

Is autism a growing epidemic or not? Recent reports have suggested that autism is on the rise, but a new study from the U.K. finds that the prevalence of this developmental disorder has remained stable. It may be that doctors are diagnosing it more often in young people -- not that it's actually happening more.

== someone notify the truth council. we have another European group disputing the truth!

Though this study deals with the U.K. population, these findings call into questions whether the much-discussed "autism epidemic" in the U.S. is a real phenomenon.

== to be fair, I'm not really sure any official government position is there is an epidemic. and there was a research paper a couple years ago that studied pockets of autism which were concluded to have been due to increased diagnosis / education.

Fears of an autism epidemic were sparked in 2009 when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that the rate of autism in children had increased 57 percent since 2002. The most recent data puts the prevalence of autism in children the U.S. at about 1 in 100 -- a similar rate to that found in the U.K. population.

== technically im sure it was the rate of diagnosis, but maybe we should have the truth council investigate the CDC for disseminating information taht cause the publci to believe things that werent true!

"This is another example where urban myths and urban logic were allowed to dictate public thinking and press coverage, and finally science is bringing up the rear.

== and politics.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Ashiwi » Sun May 08, 2011 4:10 pm

kiryan wrote:Is autism a growing epidemic or not? Recent reports have suggested that autism is on the rise, but a new study from the U.K. finds that the prevalence of this developmental disorder has remained stable. It may be that doctors are diagnosing it more often in young people -- not that it's actually happening more.


This actually goes back to a discussion we had a long time ago regarding rates of cancer and whether they were increasing, or simply being diagnosed more. My firm belief is that it's a combination of the two. There are many cancers the body can live just fine with, and because they don't cause noticeable issues, their diagnosis rates are only now increasing due to the rise in consumption of diagnosis services along with technological advances in the field. There are external factors that may cause increased rates of these cancers, including environmental contaminants, diet, and others. There are also risk factors associated with diagnosis methods that contribute to the formation of many of these cancers, and because we're diagnosing these cancers far more often, we're continually increasing our exposure to known cancer-causing agents which has the potential of creating malignancy where there was none previously.

Autism isn't a black and white disorder. There are a thousand faces to autism and many of them resemble what we once would have considered "normal". Some kids are shy, some kids are withdrawn, some kids are geniuses with card tricks and totally suck at kickball. Our society has taken this twisted turn toward cookie cutter kids. If they act out we medicate them. If they're rambunctious and highly creative we sedate them. If their heads aren't shaped perfectly we reform the bones. Kids who are perfectly capable of finding their way through life with the love and support of parents who celebrate their individuality are being forced into molds with the help of drugs and treatment.

If autism rates are really rising, then it's going to be due to some environmental factor that we've created ourselves. I think, however, that we're simply looking harder for factors that lead parents to seek care for their children. Everybody wants a diagnosis nowadays. Everybody wants a reason why kids are sometimes just kids.

When my son was five I enjoyed every philosophical discussion we had, I relished the fact that my son's teacher allowed him to teach multiplication when they got to it, and I accepted that he hated reading and couldn't sit still when he did his homework, so we found alternative learning methods. Today I am so proud of his unique individuality. Back then he would probably have been diagnosed as mildly autistic. I'm so glad he had the chance to grow up as normal.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Ashiwi » Sun May 08, 2011 4:25 pm

Oh, and per your original post ... It's stupid, but it should be obvious what the city is trying to do. They're actually looking for ways of reducing the homeless population in that particular sector of town and some idiot has decided that if you don't actively feed the animals, they'll find their way back to the wild. This has the potential to backlash on them in a very ugly way, and it's not going to work.

There are reasons the most productive areas also have the highest population of homeless people. That's where the money and the convenience are. Tulsa tried to redirect the homeless population. We built a new stadium downtown and all those shabby people really detracted from its magnificence, so the decision was to close the shelters downtown and move them to another area of the city. Stupidest. Move. Ever. All the public transportation hubs are downtown so the ability of the homeless to get to the services they need would be hobbled. All the public assistance offices are downtown. The VA offices are downtown. The SS offices are downtown. The low income hospital and clincs are downtown. And the throngs of people with pockets of change are downtown. With the exception of metroplexes, downtown is often the only place in a city or town where you can find high numbers of people with disposable income out on the sidewalks.

If people aren't giving some homeless guy the uneaten half of their sub sandwich, the homeless guy is going to be digging in the trash bins to find it. An idiotic piece of regulation like this isn't going to help them in the least, and is actually going to hurt their public image if they start to enforce it.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Ragorn » Mon May 09, 2011 1:46 pm

Also, news media outlets love to report that incidence of disease is "on the rise." It makes for sensational news reporting. I tend to believe that the autism rate is probably stable.
- Ragorn
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Mon May 09, 2011 3:28 pm

I tend to think its over diagnosed at this point.

Going with Ashiwi's point, there was an article today about South Korea having a rate of 1/30. At some point we're just diagnosing normal.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Tue May 10, 2011 9:35 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110509/ap_ ... olate_milk

==yep, they want to ban chocolate milk. Its soda in drag. Its candy they way, but heres the real fucking problem.

"We've taught them to drink chocolate milk, so we can unteach them that," Cooper said. "Our kids line up for milk."

==you taught them to drink chocolate milk, now you've decided its bad and going to un teach them. What fuking business do you have teaching my kids what you think is right when you dont even know what hte fuk is right. Like I said, whole regular non chocolate milk is almost 1/3 more calories ounce for ounce as soda and EVERYONE in the US knows milk is fundamentally and unconditionally good for children. bunch of god damn quacks running around peddling your crap
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby Disoputlip » Tue May 10, 2011 7:18 pm

I hope I don't steal the thread.

kiryan wrote:...EVERYONE in the US knows milk is fundamentally and unconditionally good for children...


I am pretty sure the non dairy movement is hitting the US aswell. Some people link milk to heart diseases and other problems that they don't have in asia.

Here is one artikel about it: (warning: heavy biased content)
http://www.notmilk.com/kradjian.html

Pretty sure we had that debate before, the milk marketing people are just as bad as the choclate milk marketing people.
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Re: the ultimate in regulation retardation.

Postby kiryan » Tue May 10, 2011 11:16 pm

are just as bad as the avocado marketing people as bad as the McDonald's people, the fish industry etc.

The problem again is government propagandizing its subjects. If they don't know, they shouldn't be telling us how to live. Even if they do know, its really none of their concern whether we drink milk soda or coffee, get fat or die of heart attacks. This is the pursuit of liberty, the freedom to choose how you live your life, yet all of this is being offered on the altar of the public interest / good.

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