Fixing the deficit

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kiryan
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Fixing the deficit

Postby kiryan » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:25 pm

I can help solve the deficit. Lets cut services for illegals. Apparently, connecticut has too much money. we can help close the budget deficit by reducing aid to Connecticut and every other state that gives illegals tuition assistance. Imagine the money that could be saved in California!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/07/co ... latestnews

This will be the first year that illegal immigrant Maria Praeli can consider going to college full-time.
...
The measure reduces tuition costs by as much as $17,000 annually for undocumented students such as Praeli, a rising senior at New Milford High School.
...
Connecticut is now among 12 states, including New York and Illinois, that grant in-state tuition to illegal immigrants who are working toward legal status.
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Re: Fixing the deficit

Postby Sarvis » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:37 pm

Kiryan in 5 years: Maria Praeli and those like her, that have gained legal immigrant status, are a drain on our welfare rolls. Her poor decision making is what led to her lacking the skills employers would hire her for!

Ok, you're right... not enough spelling errors and typos to be anything Kiryan writes.

Now, tell me Kiryan: We're talking about 250 immigrants, at $17,000 per immigrant. Ignoring the fact that the state is not _spending_ this money, explain how that $4.5 million will fix our trillion dollar deficit problem.
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Re: Fixing the deficit

Postby Kifle » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:58 am

Sarvis wrote:Now, tell me Kiryan: We're talking about 250 immigrants, at $17,000 per immigrant. Ignoring the fact that the state is not _spending_ this money, explain how that $4.5 million will fix our trillion dollar deficit problem.


Not that I agree with whatever anti-immigrant, welfare, medicare, etc. thing Kiryan posted this time, but saving 4.5 million and putting it towards the interest on the deficit will help. And if fat is trimmed elsewhere, that 4.5mil begins to get closer to 1 billion -- which would be a nice chunk. Just simplify it to your household budget. If I quit smoking, I'd end up saving $35 a week. Alone, that isn't much. If I cut out 4 days worth of restaurants during lunch, that's another $40/week. Carpooling would save me another 25-30 a week. Drinking tap water instead of buying bottled would save me another 10/week. Turning off my AC after dark would save another 50/month (or more). Buying off brand products at the grocery would probably save about 20/week. Look at that, I can afford to lease a new porche cayman s instead of driving my tiburon.

Little bits add up. The less spent is more saved. No matter how insignificant the portion, when added to the whole, any amount would help at this point.
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Re: Fixing the deficit

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:43 am

You could just make every politician in the Senate and House ineligible for reelection of the deficit exceeds 5% of the budget and lock down taxes.
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Re: Fixing the deficit

Postby Sarvis » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:05 pm

Kifle wrote:
Sarvis wrote:Now, tell me Kiryan: We're talking about 250 immigrants, at $17,000 per immigrant. Ignoring the fact that the state is not _spending_ this money, explain how that $4.5 million will fix our trillion dollar deficit problem.


Not that I agree with whatever anti-immigrant, welfare, medicare, etc. thing Kiryan posted this time, but saving 4.5 million and putting it towards the interest on the deficit will help. And if fat is trimmed elsewhere, that 4.5mil begins to get closer to 1 billion -- which would be a nice chunk. Just simplify it to your household budget. If I quit smoking, I'd end up saving $35 a week. Alone, that isn't much. If I cut out 4 days worth of restaurants during lunch, that's another $40/week. Carpooling would save me another 25-30 a week. Drinking tap water instead of buying bottled would save me another 10/week. Turning off my AC after dark would save another 50/month (or more). Buying off brand products at the grocery would probably save about 20/week. Look at that, I can afford to lease a new porche cayman s instead of driving my tiburon.

Little bits add up. The less spent is more saved. No matter how insignificant the portion, when added to the whole, any amount would help at this point.


But what if you were deciding whether to take a training class or not for $35/week? Sure, you save $35/week... but at the cost of earning more money in the future. If we assume these people will stay in the country, it may be worthwhile to get them trained so that they can be productive members of our society. Especially considering employers are complaining about a "skills gap" since education hasn't kept up with the needs of employers.
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kiryan
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Re: Fixing the deficit

Postby kiryan » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:42 pm

Wow when you put it that way, it makes total sense from a fiscal perspective. ... ... ...

Now what happens if instead of being a productive member of society they actually cost us more in the long term? Because they drop out, end up in jail or immigrate their entire family and extended family?

My dad immigrated about 15 members of my mom's family. It was trivial. Thats why dems want the dream act, you dont need amnesty for everyone if you just amnesty 1 person in every family. Several of my mom's family have been on social security / medicare their entire life. I know several other first generation immigrant families. Most of them are on some sort of federal subsidy as well. Usually the parents are on welfare/social security their entire life because they neer learn english well enough to work (above the table that is) and but half to 3/4 of their kids to tend to be educated and become "contributing" members of society (my experience is with asians, I suggest this is a best case scenario).

Now lets think about the ROI. Decades of benefits for at least 2 people + interests compounding. Cost of child rearing (state healtcare and benefits) + 12 years of education (not cheap) + x years of college subsidized by the state/tax payer... + interest at say 25 years. Rule of 72, principle doubles every (72 / interest rate) years.

Now consider the opportunity cost. What did it cost a legal citizen... in terms of their tax dollars... in terms of their own education or children's education... in terms of the job that will someday go to this bright young immigrant. In terms of "infrastructure" and government hours of time servicing their needs and studying them/creating policy?

How sure are you sure there is an ROI? and this is a red herring anyhow because you dont really care whether it makes us money or not. its just a convenient argument full of what ifs that statistically dont work when you consider the real cost.
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Re: Fixing the deficit

Postby Kifle » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:00 pm

kiryan wrote:Now consider the opportunity cost. What did it cost a legal citizen... in terms of their tax dollars... in terms of their own education or children's education... in terms of the job that will someday go to this bright young immigrant. In terms of "infrastructure" and government hours of time servicing their needs and studying them/creating policy?


This is quite possibly the best argument I've seen Kiryan make. The opportunity cost outweighs the possible return. In the best of circumstances, it will cost the American tax payer more money to get the best ROI from an immigrant than it would a citizen whom already lives in the country. Secondarily, with an unemployment percentage so high, opening up immigration at this point would significantly jeopardize that recovery.

I'm all for immigration; however, my support is entirely contextual. Vitamins are great for your body -- under the right circumstances; under the wrong circumstances, vitamins will kill you.
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Re: Fixing the deficit

Postby Sarvis » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:33 pm

kiryan wrote:Decades of benefits for at least 2 people + interests compounding. Cost of child rearing (state healtcare and benefits) + 12 years of education (not cheap) + x years of college subsidized by the state/tax payer... + interest at say 25 years. Rule of 72, principle doubles every (72 / interest rate) years.


Hmm....

its just a convenient argument full of what ifs



Yep.
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kiryan
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Re: Fixing the deficit

Postby kiryan » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:30 pm

not sure what you're going for there... if you're trying to say my argument is based on speculation of what if's you're crazy. the cost of services for illegals is clear... the ROI and benefits are unclear.

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