sneaking while hidden is zone breaking imo. If this was the point of the change, then I suggest that changing sneak to always break hide or say 25% of the time would have had a large impact on the twinky stuff without having such a large impact on the actual skills and class.
If the point of the change was realism and being able to follow tracks even if the player is hidden then do the logical thing search, then I would hope other factors would be allowed to throw the mob off. for example, rogue flees runs a few rooms, then sneaks a few rooms away then hides then the mob should track to the room where he started sneaking do his search then give up.
im not sure why we ever ditched the 30 seconds memtime thing. im not sure that we should bring it back... but, that one feature slowed the game down significantly without directly affecting the power of player skills. Zones get done faster and with less people and less risk (why can 1 enchanter dscale a group of 15?). casters can level faster from being able to kill faster and get a little bonus from being able to cast more damage spells.
hide or sneak on an item is very bad as I think a couple of players have more or less proven. I really don't think we should give class abilities out on eq. ie invis, sneak, hide. then again perhaps its ok... haste cloak? oh, but haste on an item would be broken... i don't get it. i think haste item is bad news, i think sneak boots and hide cloak is worse. i think invis amulet and cloak is not a good idea but not nearly as bad as the first three.
------------------
------
where ara you my rittle raabuuri
Recent changes to hide
first let me say that I activly play a 50th invoker known as zoldren, 47th lvl illusion known as ssosset, and a troll 45th uagr
1) invokers have mr to deal with and do the most area damage in game, target damage people debate but we still "do" the most
2) rogues are one of if not the best *dont know so guessing..* hitters and deal with evasion dodge etc
3) Warriors will always have their nitch, if you dont believe me go back to the begining of the boards when shit came up about them during and just after alpha
warriors are probably the most dynamic of all classes because nomatter the situation they can adapt their eq to fit and their skills.
4) see my above solution to the hide "problem", if you think about it.
it is both a valid point, would work in the mud, and not only fix 1 skill but would fix 2 skills. hide being one, and disquise being the second
5) like corth said earlier, there is only one super illusionist, the rest of us are good yes, but a rogue can be just as good using skills,
illusionist use spells, i cant tell you how many times i ran invis, ran more, tryd to change and couldnt, or tryd to camo/massmo and couldnt, cause tracked, you have skills we have spells that are ok but not AS good as skills
for one the spells fade
as said many times before, invokers ONLY have damage, nothing else except for travel, yay
what sets invokers apart is we have area damage as well as target. ohh no we cant have someone do more than us downgrade them, feh get real, you want to do the most damage? *sorry this SHOULDNT be about damage, because its not its about hide*
no i dont agree with the change, but why not work with the staff and your peers and find a better solution like suggesting how to make it work again like nokie has been trying hard to do. instead of bitchin and moaning that you suck now
those of you who say but but an illusionist got my group spot over me as a rogue!! ya big freakin red truck, can you displace/sequester? no thought not
for those of you complainig about "spell procs" grow the hell up, its ok when its added to your spanky vorporal suck my just proc assassinated you spork of death, but when a spell gets something that has a 2% chance of hitting you go nuts
those who complain about stuning spells.. lets think about why... it seems to me that stuning spells came in to effect at the same time that everyone realized that nobody shieldpunched, nobody stuned, nobody stoped !bash casters from casting and people bitched about it till they got something to stop it. now you got something to stop it and you bitch again.. feh again
invoker damage is fine
rogue damage is fine
invokers skills *laugh* are fine *yes i laugh we have no useful ones*
rogue skills are broke in 3 areas, disquise, hide, and one i forgot but nokie mentioned it in another thread
for me personaly, if you dont take a rogue when there is a willing one high enough lvl to go your a dork, same with any class
sure its fun to do stuff in small groups sometimes
but its also fun to take everyone to let others have a good time too, you would be suprised how many times people tell you wow i had a good time it was fun
so basicaly either come up with a better solution or stop bitchin
i suggest putting it back temperarly or permenantly
or
above changes, with disquise/hide
if you dont want to be an ass, or you dont wana bother posting to this what seems to be flame hole anymore, find me in game and i would be glad to talk to you about it
feh fed up with everyone bashing everyone elses class
old saying
"if you have nothing nice to say dont say anything at all"
maybe i should listen to but i am tired of peoples shit, only bitching, never adding anything to the game and expect everything handed to them attitude
------------------
Cap'n Touk
Ah the never ending good / evil debate has provided endless amusement for us all has it not? Both sides have a different mentality, evils appear to me as a closer nit group of people who expect a higher standard of play out of each other. Goodies are a broader group of people that cross group frequently and to me appear more easy going.
1) invokers have mr to deal with and do the most area damage in game, target damage people debate but we still "do" the most
2) rogues are one of if not the best *dont know so guessing..* hitters and deal with evasion dodge etc
3) Warriors will always have their nitch, if you dont believe me go back to the begining of the boards when shit came up about them during and just after alpha
warriors are probably the most dynamic of all classes because nomatter the situation they can adapt their eq to fit and their skills.
4) see my above solution to the hide "problem", if you think about it.
it is both a valid point, would work in the mud, and not only fix 1 skill but would fix 2 skills. hide being one, and disquise being the second
5) like corth said earlier, there is only one super illusionist, the rest of us are good yes, but a rogue can be just as good using skills,
illusionist use spells, i cant tell you how many times i ran invis, ran more, tryd to change and couldnt, or tryd to camo/massmo and couldnt, cause tracked, you have skills we have spells that are ok but not AS good as skills
for one the spells fade
as said many times before, invokers ONLY have damage, nothing else except for travel, yay
what sets invokers apart is we have area damage as well as target. ohh no we cant have someone do more than us downgrade them, feh get real, you want to do the most damage? *sorry this SHOULDNT be about damage, because its not its about hide*
no i dont agree with the change, but why not work with the staff and your peers and find a better solution like suggesting how to make it work again like nokie has been trying hard to do. instead of bitchin and moaning that you suck now
those of you who say but but an illusionist got my group spot over me as a rogue!! ya big freakin red truck, can you displace/sequester? no thought not
for those of you complainig about "spell procs" grow the hell up, its ok when its added to your spanky vorporal suck my just proc assassinated you spork of death, but when a spell gets something that has a 2% chance of hitting you go nuts
those who complain about stuning spells.. lets think about why... it seems to me that stuning spells came in to effect at the same time that everyone realized that nobody shieldpunched, nobody stuned, nobody stoped !bash casters from casting and people bitched about it till they got something to stop it. now you got something to stop it and you bitch again.. feh again
invoker damage is fine
rogue damage is fine
invokers skills *laugh* are fine *yes i laugh we have no useful ones*
rogue skills are broke in 3 areas, disquise, hide, and one i forgot but nokie mentioned it in another thread
for me personaly, if you dont take a rogue when there is a willing one high enough lvl to go your a dork, same with any class
sure its fun to do stuff in small groups sometimes
but its also fun to take everyone to let others have a good time too, you would be suprised how many times people tell you wow i had a good time it was fun
so basicaly either come up with a better solution or stop bitchin
i suggest putting it back temperarly or permenantly
or
above changes, with disquise/hide
if you dont want to be an ass, or you dont wana bother posting to this what seems to be flame hole anymore, find me in game and i would be glad to talk to you about it
feh fed up with everyone bashing everyone elses class
old saying
"if you have nothing nice to say dont say anything at all"
maybe i should listen to but i am tired of peoples shit, only bitching, never adding anything to the game and expect everything handed to them attitude
------------------
Cap'n Touk
Ah the never ending good / evil debate has provided endless amusement for us all has it not? Both sides have a different mentality, evils appear to me as a closer nit group of people who expect a higher standard of play out of each other. Goodies are a broader group of people that cross group frequently and to me appear more easy going.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>sneaking while hidden is zone breaking imo. If this was the point of the change, then I suggest that changing sneak to always break hide or say 25% of the time would have had a large impact on the twinky stuff without having such a large impact on the actual skills and class.
If the point of the change was realism and being able to follow tracks even if the player is hidden then do the logical thing search, then I would hope other factors would be allowed to throw the mob off. for example, rogue flees runs a few rooms, then sneaks a few rooms away then hides then the mob should track to the room where he started sneaking do his search then give up.
im not sure why we ever ditched the 30 seconds memtime thing. im not sure that we should bring it back... but, that one feature slowed the game down significantly without directly affecting the power of player skills. Zones get done faster and with less people and less risk (why can 1 enchanter dscale a group of 15?). casters can level faster from being able to kill faster and get a little bonus from being able to cast more damage spells.
hide or sneak on an item is very bad as I think a couple of players have more or less proven. I really don't think we should give class abilities out on eq. ie invis, sneak, hide. then again perhaps its ok... haste cloak? oh, but haste on an item would be broken... i don't get it. i think haste item is bad news, i think sneak boots and hide cloak is worse. i think invis amulet and cloak is not a good idea but not nearly as bad as the first three.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
good idea
it might be cool to give them "hide tracks" or something to hide there tracks let them sneak another room away and hide there fairly safe and sure you cant find it or see it it must not be there right?..
------------------
Cap'n Touk
Ah the never ending good / evil debate has provided endless amusement for us all has it not? Both sides have a different mentality, evils appear to me as a closer nit group of people who expect a higher standard of play out of each other. Goodies are a broader group of people that cross group frequently and to me appear more easy going.
<B>sneaking while hidden is zone breaking imo. If this was the point of the change, then I suggest that changing sneak to always break hide or say 25% of the time would have had a large impact on the twinky stuff without having such a large impact on the actual skills and class.
If the point of the change was realism and being able to follow tracks even if the player is hidden then do the logical thing search, then I would hope other factors would be allowed to throw the mob off. for example, rogue flees runs a few rooms, then sneaks a few rooms away then hides then the mob should track to the room where he started sneaking do his search then give up.
im not sure why we ever ditched the 30 seconds memtime thing. im not sure that we should bring it back... but, that one feature slowed the game down significantly without directly affecting the power of player skills. Zones get done faster and with less people and less risk (why can 1 enchanter dscale a group of 15?). casters can level faster from being able to kill faster and get a little bonus from being able to cast more damage spells.
hide or sneak on an item is very bad as I think a couple of players have more or less proven. I really don't think we should give class abilities out on eq. ie invis, sneak, hide. then again perhaps its ok... haste cloak? oh, but haste on an item would be broken... i don't get it. i think haste item is bad news, i think sneak boots and hide cloak is worse. i think invis amulet and cloak is not a good idea but not nearly as bad as the first three.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
good idea
it might be cool to give them "hide tracks" or something to hide there tracks let them sneak another room away and hide there fairly safe and sure you cant find it or see it it must not be there right?..
------------------
Cap'n Touk
Ah the never ending good / evil debate has provided endless amusement for us all has it not? Both sides have a different mentality, evils appear to me as a closer nit group of people who expect a higher standard of play out of each other. Goodies are a broader group of people that cross group frequently and to me appear more easy going.
Ok, I don't know a whole lot about zoning or rogues or anything. But I do know how I'd implement hide if I were the one implementing it:
A rogue hides and if succesful is hidden to a certain degree based on his skill level and a dice roll.
example A:
So a rogue with a hide skill of 100 tries to hide. His skill lets him roll 10d10 and he comes up with 90. So he is hidden with a difficulty of 90 to find.
The person or mob who wants to find the rogue then has to roll an ability check to find him.
So Tiapet comes along and starts searching for our rogue. Her int and level give her an 11d10 on searching (or however you want to determine search ability... ie. a skill.) She rolls 50, 80 and 70. None of these rolls are high enough to find the rogue, so Tiapet fails to find him and decides he must have gotten away somehow. There are other meals around, so why bother anyway?
Example B:
Now, sometime the next day another rogue comes along and is running away from Tiapet. He gets far enough away to try and hide, but his skill is only 99 so he rolls 9d10 and comes up with 50.
Tiapet comes along and rolls a 90 on her first try and finds the rogue for a tasty meal.
This way the skill can still be useful, but carries a risk along with trying it such that it might not work. Even with mastered hide you can still be found, it's just a lot less likely...
:shrug: rip it apart at will...
------------------
Every problem in the universe can be solved by finding the right long-haired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him.
A rogue hides and if succesful is hidden to a certain degree based on his skill level and a dice roll.
example A:
So a rogue with a hide skill of 100 tries to hide. His skill lets him roll 10d10 and he comes up with 90. So he is hidden with a difficulty of 90 to find.
The person or mob who wants to find the rogue then has to roll an ability check to find him.
So Tiapet comes along and starts searching for our rogue. Her int and level give her an 11d10 on searching (or however you want to determine search ability... ie. a skill.) She rolls 50, 80 and 70. None of these rolls are high enough to find the rogue, so Tiapet fails to find him and decides he must have gotten away somehow. There are other meals around, so why bother anyway?
Example B:
Now, sometime the next day another rogue comes along and is running away from Tiapet. He gets far enough away to try and hide, but his skill is only 99 so he rolls 9d10 and comes up with 50.
Tiapet comes along and rolls a 90 on her first try and finds the rogue for a tasty meal.
This way the skill can still be useful, but carries a risk along with trying it such that it might not work. Even with mastered hide you can still be found, it's just a lot less likely...
:shrug: rip it apart at will...
------------------
Every problem in the universe can be solved by finding the right long-haired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kallinar:
<B>this is my official position on this change, please do not feel insulted by my remarks
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
Thanks
Kallinar was here</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
yea even tho i mostly play mages i kind of agree. altho i wouldn't say it like that but hey
------------------
Leah A. W.
<B>this is my official position on this change, please do not feel insulted by my remarks
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
Thanks
Kallinar was here</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
yea even tho i mostly play mages i kind of agree. altho i wouldn't say it like that but hey
------------------
Leah A. W.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B> rangers almost, antipaladins, paladins.
i dont include warriors only cuz we are most of the time a core class. but all 3 of them classes are worse than rogues.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i wouldn't compare tanks with hitters.
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Leah A. W.
<B> rangers almost, antipaladins, paladins.
i dont include warriors only cuz we are most of the time a core class. but all 3 of them classes are worse than rogues.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i wouldn't compare tanks with hitters.
------------------
Leah A. W.
On further note.. I have discovered how to 'awaken' the khanjari dagger by shoving it up Anaram's ass!
Let's try to be constructive at least.
There are more than a few classes that have some way of evading aggressive mobs. Rogues should be at the top of that list. We lost that ability, and we'd like to know if something else can be used in place of it.
------------------
Let's try to be constructive at least.
There are more than a few classes that have some way of evading aggressive mobs. Rogues should be at the top of that list. We lost that ability, and we'd like to know if something else can be used in place of it.
------------------
long posts but anaram has a good point. maybe it shouldn't have been brought up in this post, but there is alway a constant whine. if it would make rogues feel better gods take away full heal. clerics will still be in groups cuz we got ress or vice versa.
i remember doing sf and we were doing runs on mogdath room. we couldn't kill a wraith cept for nilan. he basically assassinated all the wraith. w/o nilan we would have never finish that zone. well maybe but we were there for a couple of hours even with nilan.
i dont know how the goodie world is now but for evils to say that 40+ char will not be in any more zone group they lead is unproductive. first we asked folks where they are at cuz of low player base then we set time schedule for folks to log on so we can zone now we tell them melee classes aren't needed on evil side.
i am not a big fan of downgrades but i roll with it. learn to roll, every change make the game new. i hate new games but i have to deal. most folks who leave are not for mud changes they usually leave for rl reason or has move past the game.
anyway it's all for nil since got put it back in.
i remember doing sf and we were doing runs on mogdath room. we couldn't kill a wraith cept for nilan. he basically assassinated all the wraith. w/o nilan we would have never finish that zone. well maybe but we were there for a couple of hours even with nilan.
i dont know how the goodie world is now but for evils to say that 40+ char will not be in any more zone group they lead is unproductive. first we asked folks where they are at cuz of low player base then we set time schedule for folks to log on so we can zone now we tell them melee classes aren't needed on evil side.
i am not a big fan of downgrades but i roll with it. learn to roll, every change make the game new. i hate new games but i have to deal. most folks who leave are not for mud changes they usually leave for rl reason or has move past the game.
anyway it's all for nil since got put it back in.
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