Conjurers!

[Relnor]

Hi all!
I was wondering if anything new for us conjies was in the works? I've read through almost all the posts on the boards and havent seen anything about them. As i gained in levels i really felt that conjs were lacking in something. We didnt really have anything unique about our class, 'cept for our pets were bigger than anyone elses (even these got downgraded). We didnt have any spells to do damage with, magic missile isnt very impressive 40+, fireball/cone of cold were in our stone skin circle, and we had disentigrate at 9th or 10th? Kind of a dangerous spell to use while zoning!

Some ideas to improve:

1) This isnt for just conjies, but all pets.
Auto kick/bash sucks! How many times did i need to rescue someone (or more importantly myself! ) and get that annoying Too Busy message?! Disable it.

2) Give conjies something other than burning hands/chill touch/shocking grasp. These spells suck for damage. Perhaps give acid arrows that grow like magic missiles?

3) Familiars. It would be so damn cool to have a familiar! I dont know exactly how this would work out. maybe a 1 time thing you can get from a spell, or maybe through a quest like the shaman totems? Make them controllable from multiple rooms away (not too far, discomfort is experianced from both master and familiar on seperation.) Give a bonus of a few hps on getting a familiar? On death lose some con points permantly?

4) Teleportaion. Getting Dim Door at 7th circle seemed like a long time to wait to me. Conjurers also didnt get Gate or Reloc, which were *very* handy spells.

5) Multiple Pets. Shamans got em, why not us? Make the second elemental much weaker than the 1st, and make it an ability attained at a higher level.

These are just a few ideas off the top of my head, Im sure someone might have better ones Any more ideas/opinions are encouraged! I'd love to see this great class made better and even more fun to play =D

Relnor, Aspiring Conjurer

[Galok Icewolf]

Conjurers have already been changed from my understanding. Multiple summoning spells and a slightly different spell list. Wait and see whats in store .

Yea I definately i agree that it was just plain *dumb* that invokers had relo and conjurers didnt.. i mean comon :P

[Stilix]

I hope conjies have been upgraded or are in the works of being upgraded. Although i never made it past 40 so i was never really usefull to high lvl groups as a conj but i sure did a lot of fun stupid things with him.

What I had always been hoping for is at higher lvl they get better summoning spells. Something like summon pit fiend or summon arch angle, depending on your alignment is, or possibly summoning specialty mobs like nishruu, a mob that is physically weak but compleatly immune to magical attack, attacks that actually heal it. Having varible summoned creatures will add more flavor and versitality in group situations, allowing the PC to use these mobs to a more specific goal in achieving mud RP goodness.

I also felt that the higher lvl conjy spells where a little sparse. From what I remember at 9th circle there where no spells for conjurers. Id also have to agree with Relnor that the offensive spells that conjurers had been given where tend to become pretty useless at high lvl, unless of course we would be able to heal our fire elementals with burning hands again?

Now I realize that conjurers are not nukers like Invokers, but having some more combat abilities at higher lvls would be nice.

[Harthorm]

I really like the ideas I've seen here. Especially familiars. In D&D, if a familiar dies, the mage would lose some CON permanently. I don't think this would work on Soj (people rarely used this spell in D&D since the risk was so great compared to the reward). I think it would make a great spell on Soj with a few modifications.

Now, the familiar would have to be a very small mob native to the area; a squirrel, bird, or fox (whatever was near at hand when the mage cast the spell). They obviously wouldn't have any appreciable hitpoints/hitter value because, let's face it, it's a freaking squirrel.

While the familiar is in the mage's control, it would effectively be his eyes and ears, the mage's mind would be trapped inside the familiar's mind and body.

This is almost total submersion--only the mage being attacked or the familiar dying could break the contact without the mage severing it himself. While this takes place, the mage is completely unaware of his own surroundings and is actually moving the familiar around in other rooms.

The familiar can move a fair distance (further than Relnor suggested, possibly half the length of WD?) but definitely can't leave the zone.

The uses of this familiar would be to scout zones, explore without too much danger, and many other things I'm sure! (Oh, they can't carry anything for you, they're too weak Unless it's a small jewel perhaps *grin* Or a note! Sweet, messenger service!).

Now, the kicker: if the familiar dies while the mage is possessing it, the mage is effectively stunned (I'd say for at least 3 RL minutes, similar to the old Justice knockout but probably still able to observe surroundings... wait that's like scribing hehehe). As well, they should take huge damage (1 HP left out of their total, remember, the mage is intimately linked with this creature, almost sharing life force and feels/experiences everything the creature does). This would make using familiars in certain situations a risky prospect, and would require an attentive group member to guard the mage, effectively discouraging the mage from using this tactic to twink explore zones and other stupid crap. As well, it's not as harsh as losing CON.

Now, when the mage is done with the familiar, they must sever the bond with it. The familiar MUST be in the same room as the mage, severing the bond from a distance causes the familiar to die and the mage to suffer the consequences for their death as described above. This is a painful/painstaking process! It should take about 30 seconds or so to complete, as the mage must disengage himself from the familiar's mind and remind himself he's human/elf/whatever (like jumping into cold water, you're not used to it if you've been out of the pool for a while). As well, a very minor drain on HP should happen (5% of current HP?).

I think implementing familiars in this way would allow conjurers (or possibly enchanters?) to have a genuinely unique purpose in the group in addition to their elementals. You'd see a lot more strategic tackling of zones and group exploring happening with the chance to make use of these creatures.

Wow, longest post I've made yet, I think... Thoughts?

PS. I know rangers/druids would also be very likely to have an ability/spell like this, but the point is to make conjurers useful and fun in another manner, although an idea of this scale can be implemented however the Gods see fit

Harthorm/Twiblin

[Zheltry]

I really liked the ideas, Twib. How about making the time it takes to release yourself from being bonded with your familiar a function of how long you have been linked to it? So if you have been linked to it for 30 minutes, it would take much longer to un-immerse yourself than it would if you had only been attached to it for a short while? I think that would further discourage people from using them to scout zones.

-Zhel

[Koric]

Very well thought out.. I like it! Though I haven't been a conj in a long while, I think it'd make the class alot more interesting.. all the while preserving the current balance

[Harthorm]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zheltry:
How about making the time it takes to release yourself from being bonded with your familiar a function of how long you have been linked to it? So if you have been linked to it for 30 minutes, it would take much longer to un-immerse yourself than it would if you had only been attached to it for a short while?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great idea, it makes total sense to me! That way, if you spend a day running around as a squirrel, you'll have to spend a longer time becoming accustomed to your body again One other idea this has sparked, what if staying in the familiar too long (1 MUD day, maybe?) causes the mage's spirit/mind to lose contact with his body, and his body dies as he becomes trapped in the squirrel. If the squirrel dies, the mage has to CR both of the bodies and be restored by another mage casting a reversal type of spell on the squirrel corpse (same circle as familiar, both corpses must be in same room). If the mage fails in this, or can't do it immediately, they can't summon another familiar until this is done.

Otherwise, they must return to the mage's corpse and have another mage cast the reversal spell to restore their mind to their body, with ress-like after-effects and no return to their hometown/guild.

Too over the top? It makes sense, but might be unnecessarily strict.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zheltry:
I think that would further discourage people from using them to scout zones.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My intent wasn't to stop scouting zones, but from scouting them indiscriminantly without possible repercussions Limited scouting/exploring would be cool.

Koric: Thanks for the input, I've been checking this thread every five minutes to see responses hehe. I like when my posts are read and responded to. Even if it's with criticism, so flame me if you want, everybody!

Some quick clarifications: This spell can be cast as often as the mage wishes, considering all the detrimental effects, however the mage should have full HP while casting the spell each time. As well, the familiars should be treated very close to regular pets, meaning since an elemental will be attacked by an aggro, so will the squirrel, however they should have a modifier placed on them so that it is a less than likely event. They shouldn't be attacked 100% of the time because that would make familiars useless in aggro territories, and it would turn into a stupid parlour trick to be done in towns. A mob should have a 1-30% chance (depending on the mob level, their awareness/intelligence, and the level of the mage) to notice that there is something out of the ordinary with this little creature. For example, ravens are commonly thought to be spies for evil powers, sometimes. When they are, people claim to "feel" watched and would notice the raven behaving oddly. Basically, aggro NPC's shouldn't always attack, only when they notice this squirrel is TOO curious, or something

Phew. Thanks for listening, I hope.

Harthorm/Twiblin

[This message has been edited by Harthorm (edited 03-01-2001).]

[Zheltry]

I really like the death idea. I don't think it's too far over the top, makes a lot of sense. What about some sort of polymorph spell to act as the reversal?

Also, how about while the conjy is dying from being attached to our little squirrel friend, he loses hp gradually instead of a 'bam you're dead' sort of thing. So as he is dying he can sense it and come back in time to save himself, thus saving the friendly neighborhood mage the trouble of polymorphing him.

Oh, and the idea about lessening the frequency of agro attacks on our furry friends is a good one. I think a little bunny or squirrel would seem much less suspicious than an elemental, and only a mobile who knows a good deal about magic or is highly intelligent would suspect it was a familiar.


In an effort to boost Twib's ego,
-Zhel

[Harthorm]

Yeah, that makes sense, too

"You weaken as you lose contact with your real body."

"Your body shudders as your mind is occupied with your familiar."

"You are near death, you must return to your body!"

"You body dies and your mind is trapped with your familiar!"

Maybe cause regular amounts of damage with the same frequency as poison, although for greater amounts.

Harthorm/Twiblin

PS. Did you ever hear of a halfling without a big ego? I don't need a boost

[Zhadow]

First of all i believed that conjurer's primary use is to summon a main tank.

Conjurer's secondary use is to be the extra spell casting power next to Sorcerer and Psionist, also secondary to Enchanter's protection spells.

I believed that giving the conjurer a familiar for scouting is giving them too much power. I've seen Lyt and Omble/Ossisna in action with their ele. Imagine if they can see 2 or more room ahead of them. It also ruin the excitement for conjurer of getting track by an aggro mob 1 room away

How about being able to summon Demons and Angels as the ultimate quest for conjurer, i believed that's better than having a familiar.

Leave the scouting for the Ranger, Rouge and Assassin. One of the main function of these three class is "SCOUTING"

Before all the conjie jump for joy. The catch about this ultimate summon are the ff:

conjurer has to specialized summoning at level 50.

the size of the Demon or Angel that you summon depends on your natural hp (i'm thinking about 5X of the conjurer's natural hp)

the strength of the summon depends on the conjurer's summon ability ... a summon counter is a nice touch incentive for the hardcore conjurer the more you summon the more powerful the Demon or Angel the summoner can summon. For conjurers who get caught using robot or multi playing will forever lost your summon Demon or Angel ability

what ever damage or healing the Demon or Angel received, the summoner get's 1/5. for this to take effect the summoner and the summon should be in the same plane.

If the Demon or Angel dies the summoner dies also. Vice Versa If you tog follow or accidentally tog follow after summoning a Demon or Angel. The summon will hunt and kill the summoner where ever he or she is

It will take 7 real time hours (note: 7 real times hours of game time) for the conjurer to summon another Demon or Angel after each death.

The cool thing about this summon Demon or Angel. This summon does only what the summoner command(s)(the summon will not hit any other mob(s) within the room unless the mob(s) is aggro or unless commanded by the summoner). The only auto functions for this summon is auto rescue of its summoner and auto protect from aggro mobs.

NOTE: These are just ideas i came up from the series of post that i've read. If you think that some of these ideas are lame or great. Feel free to response to any of them

[This message has been edited by Zhadow (edited 03-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Zhadow (edited 03-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Zhadow (edited 03-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Zhadow (edited 03-02-2001).]

[Galok Icewolf]

Two things would happen.

A. Conjurers would be the exploring class sending out a critter with truthfully no dis-advantage (being at 1 hp whatever).

B. It would become a parlor trick like ventrilquism.

Assuming one of those two will happen, I definately against putting in familiars. Not only do I think thye would be a waste of coder time, I think it would end up not being used.

As far as I am aware conjurers have been changed/upgraded. There are only two things I see a drastic need for them.

1. Relocate

2. A 9th circle spell

Just my opinion...

[Lyt]

As a conjurer I feel like chiming in now I do not want a familiar. I do not see how they would help the conjurer class at all. What good is a small useless animal that will die in 1 hit? Scouting has no real advantages unless you are in a brand new zone, or you are in a zone where aggros wander around.

What conjurers really need is a higher summoned type of mob for 9th or 10th circle, a transportation spell better than dimension door, and a higher level damage spell that goes through globe other than disintegrate and prismatic spray.

Lyt

[This message has been edited by Lyt (edited 03-03-2001).]

[Harthorm]

Hmmm, those are valid points. I might have gotten more caught up in the RP value of the familiar. I still think it's a good idea, but maybe not implemented for conjurers, since, as you guys have pointed out, they probably need other stuff more. Perhaps for another caster class? Or rangers/druids?

Although I don't think conjurers might necessarily have need of this, I still think it would be a worthwhile skill/spell to put in.

Harthorm/Twiblin

[Gormal]

You want a 1hp tank go do seers.

a small black snake now follows Thorgil.

[Saraish Aderilix]

Just in response to Lyt's post...

I kinda disagree with you on that point. Familiars are nice to have - I know that even though I played a conjie to mid-high lvl, I still didn't know the mud really well - hell I had only been playing the damn thing for 6 months. There are still a LOT of zones etc that I have no _working_ knowledge of. As a caster, I would prefer to send my familiar ahead of me to warn me of any possible dangers.

This really doesn't have to be a high circle spell. I like the idea for new people to the mud. I realise that the majority of the people posting to this board are really quite experienced in the layout and mechanics of the mud, but some consideration needs to be given to the skill as a way to let newbie conjurers explore the place. I agree it isn't a skill that would be particularly useful after a certain point in your characters life; or even for your alternate character... I guess it all depends on how long you've been playing.

Summary: It won't help experienced players with anything other than RP, but it opens up a few new doors for newbie casters.

[Zord]

I wouldn't mind seeing Conjurers get two pets. They could be something like conjurer elemental and Greater Conjurer elemental at 9th.

It just a thought though.

[Guest]

As someone who has played a conjurer I think our pets should be tied to our power stat. This would determine how long we kept a pet or how many pets we could summon.

I'm sure the new spells will be spectacular but having the pet tied to one's power could make for some interesting groups. When the time is up don't have them poof but have them turn on the former master. That way it will off set the bigger pets we have been wanting to conjure.

Just a thought.

Rho

[Harthorm]

I can't remember what thread it was in, or who posted it, but somebody mentioned having Charisma affect how long your pets would stay loyal before turning on you (I think it was me... oh well hehe)...

I think that having Power affect how many pets you can have at one time, as well as how big they are would definitely make sense.

Does it make more sense that a charismatic conjurer would have pets that like him more and don't go aggro as quickly, or that they are more powerful magically and can control the pet longer?

Harthorm/Twiblin

[Lyt]

Charisma? I am sorry but every time a mage summons a follower, it is the mage's intellect and mental power that must overcome the creature in order to control it. This is tied into intelligence and I am sure will use power as well. Save charisma for bards, because why would an elemental care what its master looked like? Are humanoids even attractive to them? If charm person ever goes back in, that could be a spell which uses charisma to check and see if the spell is successful.

Lyt

[Somerled]

With regards to the using a familiar as a scouting thingy ... I have to totally disagree ... use a RANGER if theres any outdoor scouting to be done .. provided Rangers get some tweaks to make them the unseen, unheard, unknown presence in the outdoors that they should have.

Lets make sure that ANY usefull ability should first and foremost be given to players before anything else .. use PC Tanks, use PC scouts, use PC healers, etc.

[cherzra]

Yeah let's send our friendly neighborhood ranger in to scout what lies beyond that room guarded by 20 manscorpions...

You're saying something new should be given to existing classes before changing things? Well hello, conjurers ARE an existing class, and they ARE in need of some fun changes.

[Gromsharulaz]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lyt:
Save charisma for bards, because why would an elemental care what its master looked like? Are humanoids even attractive to them? </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay I cringe every time I see this brought up on the boards. Heh blame years of DM'ing and having to drill into the players that charisma is not just a measure of your looks.

It is how charismatic you are, whether or not people would want to follow your lead, your ability to influence people and make them want to be in your presence. Think of it like this, you've got a guy who is exceptionally good looking but all he talks about is how his ass constantly itches. He is NOT charismatic, and there is no one who will want to be around him for any length of time. Compare that with a guy who may not look so good but who knows just what to say at any given moment (typical con artist) he would have a high charisma score.

That said I can't see a familiar being based on a chr. check either, int and pow do make more sense but I just had to clear the high charisma = good looking thing up before it drove me insane.

Oh and one more thing if there was a find familiar spell, it should have the negative effect of perm. con loss. That nasty downside would ensure people wouldn't be sending said familiar ahead to scout and twink zones without some major thought about whether or not it was worth it. You could still have the critter not necessarily be attacked on sight be every aggro mob via a % chance. Plus a few other nice bonuses but as long as there looms the possibility for a con loss people will not take their little pets death lightly.

- Gromsharulaz Darkmace, Anal Retentive Derro of the Underdark

[Galok Icewolf]

Exactly gromsharulaz.... Familiars weren't and aren't something you would send out in front of you to sacrafice... there was a rappaport, and if it died.. it hurt... badly.. if familiars were in, the only way to make them not get abused is perm. con loss.. or at least the possibility like ress.

[Harthorm]

Grom: Thanks for the CHA description. I agree with it 100%, and it's what I was thinking when I posted it. Charisma isn't just looks. As for it not affecting mentals, I also think that int and power have more to do with it, but since they are following you and they do eventually decide to leave, I thought CHA might also be applicable. But it's simpler if you just leave it to power anyway...

Grom and Galok: Did you even read my posts on familiars from the beginning. Everything I described in there would HURT.... A LOT! I had a lot of negatives to using a familiar listed because I didn't want people to have to face losing CON permanently. Honestly, if most people had a chance of losing CON with a familiar death, would they ever use one? Not bloody likely

That said, I'm not pushing familiars for conjurers again, just wanted to clarify.

Harthorm/Twiblin

[Gromsharulaz]

Nods, I read your posts, I just personally don't think the solutions you proposed are harsh enough to prevent abuse. They were well thought out and do have the possibility of some pretty nasty things if you were alone and didn't have any help available to you.

But, that is almost never going to happen, Sojourn is based on grouping and the moment you dropped to 1hp there'd be the cleric there to dump a couple full heals on you and the enchanter to D-scale in case of any attacks. The risk to you drops greatly then when you have a full group making sure you are kept alive.

If you went the route of having the player die when the critter did, having to CR both corpses while a pain for a lone naked conj. again isn't that difficult for a group of eq'd friends who are ready to move and fully prepared based on the information you've been telling them about the zone ahead.

Losing xp is nothing, when I hit 50 and grinning I stopped caring about xp loss. Heck the only time it has ever really mattered to me was just after I leveled until I had my buffer.

What it comes down it is having an almost disposable pet when it should be something you go to great lengths to keep alive. While the backlash of it's death is harsh there's nothing to stop it from being really abused by a well organized group.

I just think that if the spell went in - the only way to keep people from abusing it would be some perm. affect they'd have to risk. It's a great idea, but without that risk it would be abused to death. There's no escaping that it's just the way players think.

- Gromsharulaz Darkmace, Insane Derro of the Underdark

[Harthorm]

You made some good points, Grom. I don't think the spell would really be all that useful at higher levels when you'd have that kind of group with you, so the penalties might balance out. Then again, you could always allow aggro NPCs to home in on the mage when they recognize and kill a familiar... bringing lots of help with them

Harthorm/Twiblin

[Jols]

I've played a conjie into the mid 40's and conjies need a handful of things to make them a more 'balanced' class. They should get a summoning spell at a lower level than 21. It would not be incredibley strong, it would be more like a weak hitter. It would help the conjie getting thier summoning skill high and also make them viable for groups before 21.

They also, like a couple ppl said, need some spells at later circles. They should definitely have a bigger conjure spell at 9th or 10th circle. I would think a quest spell, sort of like how shamans get totems. There would be like 8 main types or major elementals to get. You quest and you get a particular one. Have them be made of metal or some rare material instead of elements.

I also agree another spell they need is some sort of attacking and defense spell that actually matters in higher levels. I would think a specific spell. Maybe buff summon creature, give enhancements to a summoned creature. Speciality spells for summoned creatures because for counjurers that is thier life line.

Anyway, I hope they add something to conjies. They are a nice class, but they just need something a little more.

Jols

[Harthorm]

I've always liked the idea of Golems... at higher levels they could get pretty nasty with possible high sv_sp/MR, depending on the type of golem. There are several types, such as iron, stone, clay, each with different bonuses, just like the elementals we know and love I'd probably make them the 9th circle quest spell.

Just an idea that popped into my head early this morning that would give a conjurer something besides beings from an elemental plane of existence. They'd fit in as well as or better than familiars

Harthorm/Twiblin

[Lyt]

I too have often said that conjurers should get golems. I think that it should be a difficult 10th circle spell, and that the golems should be like the shaman spirits so that they don't die of old age after 30 mins. Two of the meanest mobs on the mud were the iron golems outside of the Wyrm guildhall. Just ask any of the evils to found them

Lyt -Steel Dragon- Order of the Wyrm

[izarek]

I played a conjie a lil while back. Hafta agree that they need something conjurable at high levels. Also think that a familiar would be cool for low levels. For those that don't want one, the choice is simple: don't conjure it. Duh! Anyhow, as to golems. Those are something you create and enchant, not something you summon or conjure. They should get something demonic/angelic. Alignment based, perhaps? Or you can select the plane you summon from and hope that you get what you want out of it? Whatever, but not golems. That don't make much sense, but it'd be better than nothing.

Anyhow, I got a question. Awhile back they were talking about separate spells for conjuring fire ellies versus say earth ellies. What ever happened to this?

Izzy

[Harthorm]

Heyas Izzy

Hmmm. I agree that golems are normally something that are made and then enchanted. On the other hand, who's to say that a conjurer wouldn't just _conjure_ one? Hehe. The class name implies that they can make/summon something into their vicinity. Perhaps there's a warehouse full of golems just waiting to be summoned Feh, if you want to stick to D&D though, you're right.

As for having different spells for summoning different mentals, would it really help that much? The only thing I can think of happening then is that nobody would bother or would rarely bother summoning air/earth, since fire was usually the way to go (since they can still be healed with incendiary). I kind of like the random mentals. It means that when you get picked to zone, you hope your conjurer is having a very lucky day

Harthorm/Twiblin

[Treladian]

Well, the quest for a summon golem spell could involve the actual creation process and the spell just summons it or something like that. Yeah, not totally realistic but it could seem more feasible that way.

Of course, I think gating in extraplanar creatures like tanari, baatezu, archons, devas, djinnis, efreet, and the like would be more interesting, especially since they have special abilities that could make them good supporting pets even if PC tanking prevails and they could well resent being summoned and attack the conjurer if a protection from evil spell isn't on them (which is another spell that conjies might be able to use if it can affect summoned pets that might otherwise be aggro).

[cherzra]

Bateezu demons as pets? Bwahaha They are amongs the most fearsome extraplanar mobs in existance, one alone would level waterdeep


Not criticizing, just snickering =)

[izarek]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>Bateezu demons as pets? Bwahaha They are amongs the most fearsome extraplanar mobs in existance, one alone would level waterdeep
Not criticizing, just snickering =)</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm no expert on bateezu in sojourn, but in PnP AD&D there's quite a range in difficulty or spankiness of those demons. While most are damn awesome, there are some easy ones.

Izzy

[Treladian]

Chezra, bah, I'm not talking about summoning in pit fiends, which probably falls under the list of 10 dumbest ways for a mage to die, but more along the lines of abashai, dretches, cornugons, basically the smaller ones. Though it might be interesting to be able to summon in a balor, maralith, or pit fiend with the stipulation that it is not under the conjie's control and the only guarantee is that it'll do a lot of havoc to whatever mobs it feels like before leaving the prime material when it feels like it =p

[cherzra]

Hmmm actually now you mention that, I think it sounds like a decent idea... if at lvl 49 or 50 a conjie can summon demons, with the lesser ones (still more powerful than mentalks) being under his control, then there should be a decent (10%? 20%?) chance of summoning an aggro marilith/balor/whatever... making sure it will only be used in zones when there's a big group there just in case Mebbe make it a quest spell.. give ppl something to do.

[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 03-07-2001).]

[Ruhr]

Conj = twink class.

Glad to see the MUD going back to PC tanking.

[moritheil]

class that summons demons is called a Diabolist and is independent of conjurers... Diabolists do not summon ellies.

*conj's do not do great dam because that would make them better able to solo.
*conj's do not gate because it would be mildly obscene.
*conj's summoning mountable pets would be fun.

[moritheil]

and yeah, I've thought they should get golems for years as well. But *really expensive* golems.

[moritheil]

idea...

Enchanter spell: Augment Elemental
Circle: 9th? (high)
Duration of effect: until summoned creature dies.

Depending on the weather, this spell (taking a looooooong time to cast) will bestow additional benefits on the elemental ranging from extra hps to armor bonuses to globe to +hit/+dam (yes I realize that could be a bad thing if exp'ing). Spell failure may aggravate or enfeeble the elemental.

[cherzra]

Hmm, at first I liked the idea of going back to PC tanking. But after some more thinking, I realize that this would put Conjurers, and to some degree Shaman, out of a job.

I don't think pctanking should take over the role of pet tanking, I am of the opinion that they should both be equally useful. In some of the newer real high level zones pctanking is absolutely out of the question, unless mob damage is significantly downgraded.

Perhaps the solution would be to lower mentals' hp, BUT give conjies a 'conjure greater elemental' or whatever spell at 49 so they can get around 1k fire/airs and 3k solids. At that level, people will be doing those real hard zones, and those mentals will be sorely needed.

The only thing wrong with shaman/conjurers last wipe was that there were never enough of them

[moritheil]

thought of that too, actually, from back in my Shadowrun days. A quest, no doubt, would be needed. Thing is, from what I understand a greater elemental in FR is, well... spanky.

[Thurg]

being a conj at low level sucks and something is definitely needed.. dont really cre what exactly but something... and a higher level pet would be useful we need'em

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Thurg, Gramordues, Zanzor, Zhaxilor, Krondal