greedy n00bs

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
moritheil
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greedy n00bs

Postby moritheil » Tue Oct 30, 2001 2:16 pm

I was going to post a long-winded rant, but after going to bed and waking up again I'm not so inscensed as I was. Basically, I went to EM and handed out some eq; the newbs turned around and sold it to shop. I thought this was rather wrong... so I asked them what was up. One guy that I gave steel bracelets to said he couldn't use them, when he obviously didn't bother to check (clericable; he was a cleric). At least he had the grace to apologize.

I saw this other dude with a circle of light... I figured I'd trade him for it since the ansi was nice, and give him something decent. So I offer him, and he starts telling me with all kinds of demands like 'this is 7hps ac2 (or 3?) quest item! I want something good for it, like scarlets' Uhh.... okaaayyyy... so you want 25hps rings for a 7hps ring? I try to point out to him he is being ridiculous but that if he can name something a little more reasonable I will give him the eq trade (grossly in his favor) to help him out. He starts saying 'well you wanted to trade' and entirely misses the point... Trade I offered was in his favor to begin with. And I was already wary because he had taken eq off his level 16 elf warrior (because he said it didn't have enough hps to play) and his name was an autogen variant of a very famous one that made my head hurt.

Anyhow... I try to help people, and they just whine and demand more. Not all n00bs are like this, but this is my most depressing trip to EM ever. Even when I died two times and had a royal pain with CR, it wasn't so bad as this.

Why do I have faith in people anymore?
ShaylaRose
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Postby ShaylaRose » Tue Oct 30, 2001 3:59 pm

[This message has been edited by ShaylaRose (edited 10-30-2001).]
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Oct 30, 2001 6:00 pm

Quit helping people. That way you'll never be jaded by ungrateful people again. As for the circle of light trade- you may have thought that you were doing him a favor, but maybe he liked the ansi too and didn't feel like giving up the item. Perhaps, the item was a gift and he didn't want to just give it up unless he got something really nice for it. He seemed to have some kind of attachment to it.

Yayaril
Nida
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Postby Nida » Tue Oct 30, 2001 7:49 pm

When I started out, people were giving me so much stuff I had to find a remote !mob area so I could just drop it all and use the ground for storage while I tested it out. ^_^ I was only level seven or so, but what I couldn't use, I gave to people of even lower level (I'd asked everyone who gave me something "How can I repay you?" and their only response went along the lines of "Do the same thing when you're big and badass".) People are very generous here-- my alts have to turn down eq every five minutes (I'm not going to have people give their stuff to me when I can get the same stuff with Nida and give it to them-- there are newer newbies who need it more). I can understand selling eq gifts that you can't use maybe, but selling without testing is pointless-- more likely to hurt you for things like hitroll in the long run than help you with a tiny bit of cash. And demanding like that from someone who's being so kind... Yeesh.
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Tue Oct 30, 2001 8:28 pm

Thanks for the support, Shayla... I read your post before it was rubbed out. I came to realize that you weren't just trying to make me miserable :P

Thanks everyone else too... maybe I will give up as yayaril suggests... but remember, Yaya, I first showed you how to quest Image So maybe I will just show people things and avoid giving eq. I dunno, it always seemed to be ideal to get rid of eq by giving it to n00bs. Ah well.

I'm coming to realize that not all people remember others anyhow. I used to have this grand vision of Sojourn as sort of an alternate society, one where people could meet people from all walks of life and form relationships with others that they would never otherwise (sort of like a rave, I know). Eq and levels seemed to be secondary to goodwill... but as time went on it seemed that goodwill was so incredibly hard to build up... and there are always people that forget and fade. There's a certain paladin that I gave shiny gold rings to several months ago (when they were the best rings anyone had), that now won't even answer my tells. There are mages, rogues, and other druids that I gave eq to or CR'd, and they don't even remember my name.

Goodwill is incredibly fragile. I once commented to Raj, not knowing she was Seroka, thinking she was a n00b, that she should stay out of zone at reboot. She thought I was yelling at her and assumed I knew who she was, and got really angry at me (*justifiable* if I knew who she was, but I thought she was just a newb and I was trying to explain the rules). We haven't talked since. Seroka if you read this, I apologize for being dumb.

There's also Dalar. Way back in the day I used to know him under a different name, and we occasionally grouped and did cool stuff. But in alpha, we had a dispute over some eq, and since I had no idea who he was, I was pretty ticked off about it. He was too, since I seemed unreasonable. Oh, he was also trying to get me to tell him how to get certain horses, which I refused because I didn't want to show it to him. It turns out it was actually a bug, and myself and others reported it. He thought I just didn't want to let him in on it to keep him disadvantaged.

So yeah, apparently much has changed from my original vision of "set people up, hand them some starter eq, show 'em their job, give 'em a few levels."

- Moritheil "Padrone"
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:36 pm

I dropped all of Ragorn's equipped on the ground by the Fountain. One level 21 grey elf warrior spammed get all;put all bag and snatched every single piece. Two scarlets, dwarf plate, two fruities, monocle.. all the mid level cleric gear you can shake a stick at.

I considered that a fitting and somewhat ironic end to my Sojourn career.

- Ragorn
Vipplin
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Postby Vipplin » Wed Oct 31, 2001 11:45 am

If I find myself with some down time and a piece or two of gear to spare, I check out the list of low levels in the class that can use it. If I can track them down, I take a look at them and see what they need. I talk to them a little.

Half of them are alts and don't really need much help. I help them either way, just differently. A true new player I'll give time and eq till it hurts. An alt I will give a few minutes to, maybe help 'em level a few if they need it.

I find the real new players aren't greedy but thankful. Anyone I'm trying to help who gives me attitude will probably not see me leave the room, thanks to ranger sneak Image I haven't had to do that yet, though, so maybe I've been lucky.

Vadian

P.S. Sorry to see you go, Ragorn. I didn't know you but I hear you were a good guy.
Fasamaot
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Postby Fasamaot » Wed Oct 31, 2001 2:38 pm

Since I was a "newbie" Morithiel mentioned I like to add my 2 cents.

1st. *decent* item he mentioned was mithril shackle with umm +9str and 1ac or something... I told him I don't like to go around in shackles... that's all, then he tried to bargain and "reason" me... I told I need hp 1st of all since my character is grey elf enchanter (and btw my 1st char that I quit was not a warrior but an enchanter too and on lvl14 he has 33 naked - so am quite picky on hp right now Image And he started offering me various items on various items I wearing but in any his offer I was losing from 7 to 12 hp wise not getting anything much magewise.
And in 2 minutes or so he went ld.

2nd Yes, circle was a gift, and I didn't like to throw it away just for hrmm maybe reasonable trade. Actually all my eq right now are gifts from various kind players, I don't want to mention them here, they know who are they and I'd like to thank them yet again Image

3rd Not to Morithiel directly, but generalization: in my mudding carrier I met some peoples who instead of helping newbies tryed to rip them off in trades. And Morithiel sonded much like them (sorry if am wrong) - i.e. first he mentioned the reason of trade is that he like ansi and then concentrated on stats of eq he trading and completely forgot about ansi and stuff.

4th Well I don't trade with newbies. Why? Course all eq they have are gifts and they don't know what eq is hard to get and what is easy, and if I have some extra they could need it's I prefer to just give it away. This way both me and newbie usualy hapier.
Trading actually only good (for me) when trading eq you don't use for eq you will or could use. And when both sides know value of eq.

Sorry if it sounds like ranting, I just wanted to post this story from my point of view.
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Fri Nov 02, 2001 5:32 pm

I went LD before, you saw it... my connection kept crapping out while we were in the same room.

I was offering you hps belt and other, less spanky hps rings... I don't know if you were in fight and missed the tell, since you asked me to restate it several times ("killing chickens" I think was your reply). Eventually, since it was the early AM, after lagging out for the third or 4th time and being faced with someone who apparently was only interested in stating strange demands, I decided to go to bed. Incidentally, I had stated more than once "if you do not want to trade with me, just tell me. don't keep sending unreasonable demands." This was while you were standing next to me in the city, so I don't know how you missed that. I dislike wasting time or making people feel uncomfortable.

I do not rip newbies off. I take pains to ensure that this does not happen. Apparently since you missed a lot of tells, it somehow looked like that from your end, but if you logged the conversation and read all of it would be abundantly clear that I was trying to be generous.

What I still find repulsive is the inherent assumption that just because I am over level 30, I must be "loaded" and you can demand any eq you want in return for something that I thought of trading for on a whim. As I stated above, stats were only mentioned because you kept bringing up your item stats, and you *asked* for stats on items I was offering.

In summary:
- You were not paying attention to the conversation, for which I don't think I can be blamed.
- If you read my above thread you will realize that I had already given away other eq to people and had them turn around and sell it to shop. Therefore I determined not to *give* eq to you, figuring that if it required an exchange you would be less likely to sell it to shop like I had just seen. Once we started talking, I realized you didn't need small stuff and started mentioning other eq. After a minute during which you didn't reply, I lagged out again.
- "Trading is only good when both sides know the value of the things involved." I find this statement ironic in context, as it is what you were complaining about.

Good day.

PS- I know you don't inherently respect oldskoolers, but for the record I had just had a conversation with the man whose name your mage's was derived from, and he was none too happy. Since you are in no way a newb, you must know about this. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you had planned to peti for a name change. If not... please do. He couldn't contact you because you were in daylight.
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Fri Nov 02, 2001 5:34 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B>He seemed to have some kind of attachment to it.

Yayaril</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, y'know, because people I give gifts to don't seem to have such qualms. Chalk it up to bad luck, I guess.
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Fri Nov 02, 2001 8:18 pm

Not greedy... but irritating.

Squid is asking a lot of things on nhc over space of time, I try to answer them as best I can. Later on he's asking for someone to help him, so I head over to IX, pick him up. I show him the rothe farms, the stores, how to get to GH, and what to kill, to toggle vicious, how to feed on incap mobs, etc. I tell him it's not that easy to level up a squid if you're new, especially with not many other lowbie evils. He's like no problem, I can handle it, I'm a great player, etc. So I decide to kill a few mobs to get him a few levels so he can at least solo a bit, and after 2 mobs...


You group-say 'did the >>> go up?'

< 837h/860H 144v/144V>
body child

< 838h/860H 144v/144V> Sulleyeray group-projects 'bah'
You emit a fierce battle cry, and charge right into him, bodyslamming him DOWN!

Your bash at a small duergar child sends him sprawling.
A small duergar child is stunned!

< 839h/860H 144v/144V T: Cherzra TC: few scratches E: duergar EC: few scratches>
You deflect a small duergar child's blow, and strike back at a small duergar child!
You slash a small duergar child very hard.
You slash a small duergar child extremely hard.
You miss a small duergar child with your slash.

< 840h/860H 144v/144V T: Cherzra TC: few
A small duergar child's senses seem to clear again!

< 845h/860H 144v/144V T: Cherzra TC: few scratches E: duergar EC: small wounds>
A small duergar child misses you with his hit.
You slash a small duergar child extremely hard.
You slash a small duergar child extremely hard.
Sulleyeray group-projects 'this is horrid.'

< 846h/860H 144v/144V T: Cherzra TC: few scratches E: duergar EC: few wounds> You tell Nokie 'thanks! '

< 852h/860H 144v/144V T: Cherzra TC: few scratches E: duergar EC: few wounds>
A small duergar child misses you with his hit.
You slash a small duergar child extremely hard.
You land a mighty slash on a small duergar child

< 852h/860H 144v/144V T: Cherzra TC: few scratches E: duergar EC: nasty wounds>
gsa nasty wounds
You deflect a small duergar child's blow, and strike back at a small duergar child!
Your awesome slash causes a small duergar child to gasp in pain!
Your slash enshrouds a small duergar child in a mist of blood!
A small duergar child is nearly slain by the force of your slash!

< 859h/860H 144v/144V T: Cherzra TC: few scratches E: duergar EC: awful> Sulleyeray has left the game.
gsay awful
Sulleyeray stops following you.
Sulleyeray has left the group.
You disband the group.
But you are a member of no group?!

< 859h/860H 144v/144V T: Cherzra TC: few scratches E: duergar EC: awful> But you are a member of no group?!

< 860h/860H 144v/144V T: Cherzra TC: excellent E: duergar EC: awful>
A small duergar child misses you with his hit.
Your final slash sends a small duergar child's head bouncing along the ground.
a small duergar child is dead! R.I.P.
You receive your share of experience.
get coins corpse
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of a small duergar child.

< 860h/860H 144v/144V> You get a small pile of coins from corpse of a small duergar child.
There were: 6 gold coins, 35 silver coins, 45 copper coins.

< 860h/860H 144v/144V> look
Small Pond
Room size: Very large (L:70 ft W:70 ft H:45 ft)
Exits: - East
[3] A rug covered with dwarven runes lies here in a heap.
A long knife has been left here.
A shoulder strap and pouches have been dropped here.
[2] Corpse of a small duergar child is lying here.
A thick pool of sticky blood covers the ground.


At least say something before quitting out, sheesh. Make me walk to UD for nothing.
Dizzin
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Postby Dizzin » Fri Nov 02, 2001 8:21 pm

Heh Cherz.. I was messing around with a low-level pally and that squid asked to group with me.

I still wonder why people don't pay attention to the message at startup: Evils aren't for completely new players.

-Tre'Verien
Ensis
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Postby Ensis » Fri Nov 02, 2001 8:49 pm

i try to stay away from helping anyone 1-10 level except for answering questions, telling them where to go for exp..and maybe giving them some cash so they can buy some of the stuff from the armory/drens..

I keep a pretty thick bag of the less desirable stuff from raids that i like to give away on a regular basis, but i make sure its someone I've seen on regularly before I give it out or offer to meatshield/flee for some of the wouldbe stoners/globers/fullhealers of the future.

At least Cherz only lost a few minutes of travel time and not a bunch of loot that he could've given to someone who has been busting their ass wearing leather and wielding an unenchanted silver greatsword. Not really a constructive post..just a comment.

E
Kuurg
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Postby Kuurg » Fri Nov 02, 2001 8:53 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ensis:
<B>At least Cherz only lost a few minutes of travel time and not a bunch of loot that he could've given to someone who has been busting their ass wearing leather and wielding an unenchanted silver greatsword. Not really a constructive post..just a comment.

E</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


nah, he didn't lose any loot. The squid quit which means gear is on the ground. Anything that could've gone to some other noob he can pick up and redistribute. Still, it's a shitty thing to do to leave and not even thank the person for the time and effort.


------------------
·Kuurg·
Fasamaot
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Postby Fasamaot » Fri Nov 02, 2001 11:37 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
I went LD before, you saw it... my connection kept crapping out while we were in the same room.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Might be ... at least I am not the one to argue about it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I was offering you hps belt and other, less spanky hps rings...</font>


Sure you did , as well as you asked 2 items for a belt and I don't remember any hp ring you offered. (as for belt it was +8hp - so you stated and asked +10hp belt and +7hp ring for it)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"killing chickens" I think was your reply).</font>

Aye I was since I was lvl1 and couldn't kill anything else.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> and being faced with someone who apparently was only interested in stating strange demands, </font>

Umm mind you if I remind you that you asked "What you want then?" after that shackles offer. So why you blame me for strange demand if you asked about them in 1st place?
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">This was while you were standing next to me in the city, so I don't know how you missed that. I dislike wasting time or making people feel uncomfortable.</font>


When I came to city after killing teh chicken you were LD so I dunno how you could be LD and sending tells at same moment. Just to note I have quite stable link here, so am pretty sure I din't miss your or anyone else tells. As for demands why do you think you are only person who dislike unreasonable damnds?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Apparently since you missed a lot of tells, it somehow looked like that from your end, but if you logged the conversation and read all of it would be abundantly clear that I was trying to be generous.</font>

Sometimes big and nasty mobs loads shit too ... think about it.. besides since when trading is generous occupation?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">What I still find repulsive is the inherent assumption that just because I am over level 30, I must be "loaded" and you can demand any eq you want in return for something that I thought of trading for on a whim. </font>

And when did I made this assumption?
Pretty simple I duuno why you cannot seems understand this I was using this eq? it was gift,you asked to trade it, then you asked what I want and I stated my preferences and then you starting to blame being unreasonable ...etc.... my advice for future don't trade with lowbies if don't want to be dissutisfied.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> As I stated above, stats were only mentioned because you kept bringing up your item stats, and you *asked* for stats on items I was offering. </font>


Anything wrong with asking stats? Cold you please explain why it is wrong?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
- You were not paying attention to the conversation, for which I don't think I can be blamed.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That made me laughing quite hard... specialy as you stated b4 that you were on bad link and probably missed half of my tells due to it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
- If you read my above thread you will realize that I had already given away other eq to people and had them turn around and sell it to shop. Therefore I determined not to *give* eq to you, figuring that if it required an exchange you would be less likely to sell it to shop like I had just seen. Once we started talking, I realized you didn't need small stuff and started mentioning other eq. After a minute during which you didn't reply, I lagged out again.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1st I didn't ask you or anyone else to give me eq.
2nd I never (and not only on this) sold to shop any piece of eq that is more usefull and harder to get then it's shop price.
3rd only other eq I heard that was +hp was that belt (cinch cord for anyone who wonder what was it) and as I stated earlier you asked 2 piecs of eq I was wearing for it.
4th yes, indeed, thank to other more generous persons I wasn't need trade offers? specialy to trade 2 pieces of eq by 1 that was summary worse than other too (yeah I know where cinch cord comes or at least was coming from 3 years ago)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
- "Trading is only good when both sides know the value of the things involved." I find this statement ironic in context, as it is what you were complaining about.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And what is ironic in it? And how it corresponds with your statement that you wasn't trying to "rip of" lowbie?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
PS- I know you don't inherently respect oldskoolers, but for the record I had just had a conversation with the man whose name your mage's was derived from, and he was none too happy. Since you are in no way a newb, you must know about this. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you had planned to peti for a name change. If not... please do. He couldn't contact you because you were in daylight.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do respect oldschoolers who are actualy have to belong to oldschool. But i don't respect someone who for exepmle trying to sell PS braselets to newbies in WD and proud that they lucky enough to bought them from shop b4 others or doing something like this.
(this sarcasm is not addressed to you directly just an illustrative example)
As for names I tryed to claim my original name but din't had time for wait for autorization (was waiting about a hour) so I rerolled and picked a suggested name, not a big deal I can live with it. As for petitions I don't mind chaging it Image but won't be the one who will bother to petition. The reason is stated above - I just play to have fun not fame or name or something, I had them enough to not to bother about them anymore.

Just my 2 c.

[This message has been edited by Fasamaot (edited 11-03-2001).]
Elisten
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Postby Elisten » Sat Nov 03, 2001 12:41 am

For what it's worth.. Most (and I only say most), low levels and even mid-levels are very very grateful for all the help anyone offers. At least I am. I can't imagine Sojourn 3 without all the great players around who have helped me thus far with my journeys.

Kudos to all those who help and care and even to those who think about giving up being nice and helping. Image We still love ya!!

Elisten Image (with no last name) - member of CUE!
Cleric Union of Evermeet
Vipplin
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Postby Vipplin » Sat Nov 03, 2001 1:57 pm

A small duergar child misses you with his hit.
You slash a small duergar child extremely hard.
You slash a small duergar child extremely hard.
Sulleyeray group-projects 'this is horrid.'


*laugh*

You know, Cherzra, it looks to me like this person couldn't handle slaughtering children. Maybe they left to try a good race? Slicing up children isn't for everyone, hehe.

It was indeed VERY rude to not even say goodbye or anything at all.

Vadian
Rynlaeis
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Postby Rynlaeis » Wed Nov 07, 2001 4:45 am

Moritheil - thanks for giving me those obsidian armplates for free, I still need to pay you back for those. And thanks for the free equipment you gave to my friend Faloran too.

Cheers
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Postby Kozzloz » Wed Nov 07, 2001 6:19 am

Hey Cherz... I ran into that guy with my squid and I took him around Ix showing him around too. He did the same thing after a couple minutes, he said some wierd stuff and then just took off.
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Thu Nov 08, 2001 4:54 pm

Thank you, Fasamot, for showing by example the problems with goodwill gestures.

[This message has been edited by moritheil (edited 11-08-2001).]
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Thu Nov 08, 2001 4:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rynlaeis:
<B>Moritheil - thanks for giving me those obsidian armplates for free, I still need to pay you back for those. And thanks for the free equipment you gave to my friend Faloran too.

Cheers</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sure np... when are you on nowadays, I haven't seen you in weeks man! Image we should xp.
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Thu Nov 08, 2001 4:57 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Vipplin:
<B> You know, Cherzra, it looks to me like this person couldn't handle slaughtering children. Maybe they left to try a good race? Slicing up children isn't for everyone, hehe.

It was indeed VERY rude to not even say goodbye or anything at all.

Vadian</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree. I somehow doubt that they had qualms about killing, as this is a game, and most people know when they pick "Evil race out to dominate other races and eat them alive" they are not going to be squeaky clean. Ah well.
fildur
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Postby fildur » Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fasamaot:
Sometimes big and nasty mobs loads shit too ... think about it.. besides since when trading is generous occupation?]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i just cant take ppl that cant take trading like it is, someone is allways on the top hand, and when ppl go on, and on and want more than the top hands they been offered it just makes me wanna be sick Image

---(-salute-)---- to all o ye that keeps the mud a nice place and doesnt try rip ppl off, and ppl that just take the time to stop an chat for a while.

greed just takes the fun outa mudding, an ppl that cant see that they are greedy oughta listen when they are told so. faic if yer offered good stuff for your crap and ye want to keep it, see to it that ye at least are polite....damnit.....

ca 'disintegrate' twink

//fil

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