exp,level 50 newbs etc.

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Deltin
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exp,level 50 newbs etc.

Postby Deltin » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:44 pm

there seem to be common themes to peoples threads about exp,exploring and grouping.
1. how do you get people out of hometowns and exploring?
2. how do you get people exploring and learning the mud?
3. how do you prevent power leveled newbs?

picture if you will a hometown, this hometown would be the center of a bull's eye, the farther away you go from the center the higher the level of mobs,exp and gear. Add to this level restrictions on gear and now there's a reason and a need for lower levels to group together. People have suggested an equipment wipe but this would only be temporary at best, things would go back to the current situation.
Naturally these are all general ideas but if you can picture what I am saying you may have an even better idea.
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Postby Burmadapig » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:41 pm

zone experience bonus

harder the zone, the more the bonus experience for doing it

encourages people to zone instead of doing mundane kill the same mobs over and over again experience
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Postby Gura » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:18 pm

an eq wipe would be retarded. people would just do spob over and over and over again. its not like u cant do it multiple times per boot already.
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Re: exp,level 50 newbs etc.

Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:51 pm

Deltin wrote:1. how do you get people out of hometowns and exploring?
2. how do you get people exploring and learning the mud?


... why do you explore, to gain knowledge. If knowledge is free or given away then whats the value of exploration?

You make it either necessary or you make it beneficial.

Deltin wrote:3. how do you prevent power leveled newbs?


You make all exp solo. You institute required levels on equipment. You prevent spells from being cast on you if not ingroup (and eliminate the spell if you ungroup). You create exp zones that change randomly.

but explain to me why would try and "learn" the game at level 30... The level 30 game is drastically different than the level 50 game... Why would you do anything other than exp until your 50? Your a lot less likely to die exploring at 50 than you are at 30.

The most efficient way to play is to plevel to 50 then learn the game and get the eq. Until you need to "learn the game" to exp, this model won't change.
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Postby Karenthael » Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:07 am

but explain to me why would try and "learn" the game at level 30... The level 30 game is drastically different than the level 50 game... Why would you do anything other than exp until your 50? Your a lot less likely to die exploring at 50 than you are at 30.

The most efficient way to play is to plevel to 50 then learn the game and get the eq. Until you need to "learn the game" to exp, this model won't change.


Ok, I try to learn the game before level 30 so that I am not at the mercy of others should I die due to my own stupidity. And yes the game is drastically different at level 50 than it is at level 30, hence the reason that everyone should take their time and find those things that the areas builders have spent long, hard hours putting in so that people can enjoy themselves no matter the level.

And it may be the most efficient way to play the game, in your opinion, but I find it to be quite a bit more enjoyable to gain my skills and levels through TRUE exploration, not being lead about by the nose and forever wondering which way the leader went right before I died. There is never a "need" to learn a _game_, there is only the desire.
Deltin
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Postby Deltin » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:21 am

Burmadapig wrote:zone experience bonus

harder the zone, the more the bonus experience for doing it

encourages people to zone instead of doing mundane kill the same mobs over and over again experience


except that no mid level zones are done, no reason to when you can buy or be given better than what you could get from that zone. Not only that but the trip to the zone can be more dangerous than doing the zone. Therefore I'd say 90% of the zones that are done, are done by people level 45 and higher.
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Postby Lahgen » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:02 am

There are all sorts of things that could make the mud harder without mucking around with the established system.
Kesena OOC: 'i wish my daddy bought me power tools'
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Rather than seeing "subpar race/class," see "challenge."
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Postby Disoputlip » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:53 am

Play evilrace.

When good race zone then it is very efficient. E.g. you fight a mob, while illusionist runs to next mob for fold etc. In muspel you have 30 sec exactly if you are doing a quest in muspel, or think you are. Groups don't have the time for all the exploring.

Therefore my advice is to play evil_race. At least to begin with. There is generally more time when running around in the lower zones.
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:35 pm

There's always going to be people who play the game the "most efficiently" and those who play the game the way it was meant to be played in spirit, because they find that more enjoyable. You have to decide who you're going to design the game for in order to make your decisions... power players or everybody else? There are no winners to losing either side.
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:44 pm

this game punishes you harshly for exploring, especially at those times of the day when there are not many people on, and those who ARE on the who list are just afk bots.


may a new drow in dk gives up after exploring the forest surrounding it and dying - then having no idea how to get back or point someone to their corpse.
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:12 pm

If you can't figure out how to get out of DK to find your corpse in the Forest of Mir... or any of the areas outside of DK... then you should probably go back to Scardale. I spent last wipe trying to learn this game as an enchanter, with no crew to hang out with and nobody to come running to help me if I screwed up, and had done a LOT of exploring. Sure, there were a couple of times where I had to wait for help to CR, but it's not like that damaged me in any way.

This game doesn't punish you harshly for much of anything anymore, and certainly not for exploring. There's very few areas a lowbie can get into that aren't easily CR'able, and even if there's not anybody around to do a CR immediately, the rot timer's been pushed so far back that there's plenty of time to wait around for help.

People... it's a game, go explore already! If you think dying in a game is harsh punishment then you've forgotten that it's a game.
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Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

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kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:52 pm

amen to ashiwi x2

they just put in a 1700 room zone.

why don't i see many drow on who?

players are too lazy to explore, and are too jealous to allow people to claim... its like go do all the work finding/figuring something out then give me a bid for helping.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Thilindel » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:38 pm

I think the reason some won't make a new drow is the fact you lose hps only sub25 when dying. There is no understanding as to why lowbies get punished losing a level. If you die several times in a nasty spot (assuming no higher level chars can help or if you truly want to tough it out and go at it solo) you WILL lose max hps on losing levels. The fact of losing hps when a lowbie has been brought up in many a thread, yet no admin ever gives reason why this is deemed 'fair'.
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Postby Tasan » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:48 pm

...
Last edited by Tasan on Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tasan
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Postby Tasan » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:48 pm

kiryan wrote:why don't i see many drow on who?


There's nothing worth exploring from what I saw :(

2 hours, lame/half-assed descriptions, tons of repeated room descs, echoes that were missing any semblance of grammar/punctuation/spelling.

I'd rather have 400 rooms of awesome zone than 4x that of mediocre/thrown together zone.

Remember when there used to be standards for putting a zone in... ahhh those were the days...

!!x
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Shiallia
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Postby Shiallia » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:50 pm

There's nothing worth exploring from what I saw :(

2 hours, lame/half-assed descriptions, tons of repeated room descs, echoes that were missing any semblance of grammar/punctuation/spelling



eyebrow...your statement implies that I wrote those descriptions with not only any effort but no research. As I spent nearly 6 months describing that place I take HIGH offense to your statement.

EDIT>>Let it be known that the above quote has opened my eyes...enjoy what I leave you.
Last edited by Shiallia on Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: exp,level 50 newbs etc.

Postby Botef » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:32 am

kiryan wrote:
Deltin wrote:1. how do you get people out of hometowns and exploring?
2. how do you get people exploring and learning the mud?


... why do you explore, to gain knowledge. If knowledge is free or given away then whats the value of exploration?

You make it either necessary or you make it beneficial.

Deltin wrote:3. how do you prevent power leveled newbs?


You make all exp solo. You institute required levels on equipment. You prevent spells from being cast on you if not ingroup (and eliminate the spell if you ungroup). You create exp zones that change randomly.

but explain to me why would try and "learn" the game at level 30... The level 30 game is drastically different than the level 50 game... Why would you do anything other than exp until your 50? Your a lot less likely to die exploring at 50 than you are at 30.

The most efficient way to play is to plevel to 50 then learn the game and get the eq. Until you need to "learn the game" to exp, this model won't change.


It took me a good 6-7 months to reach 50 and that time was really spent primarily exploring, and well - getting killed. I'd say I learned a hell of a lot more doing this at mid-level then I ever could have learned at 50th. I took this approach primarily because I had come back from a 2 year hiatus, and had forgotten many many things about how to play and get around this mud, not to mention becoming used to the changes. After two years of playing a considerably different mud, most of what I had learned was gone or hazy. I could have power leveled to 50, but I had much more fun getting killed on a daily basis because I was just too damn curious and wanted to see all the things I remembered.

My recollections of Sojourn when I left was quite different then what I returned to, the biggest difference being the playerbase size and the overall attitude of older players. Back then, I was encouraged to explore, people suggested places to check out, and being mid-level for long periods of time wasnt looked upon negitivly.

Fast forward to now, and you find many people telling you that exploration is pointless, that you should xp diligently till your zoneable, and that taking 6+ months to reach 50 is an undesirable characteristic.
I certainly was told on many occasions I took too long to XP, but I dont care because I know my way around with or without maps, often blind and have a wide and rounded knowledge of where things are and how to look for them. Sure I died on a near daily basis for a number of months, but each death brought with it a lesson on survival, not to mention tactics. All of these lessons had nothing to do with zoning, or the place for my class at lvl 50.

So in my opinion waiting to 50 to explore, and learn your way around and how to do things on your own is lesser to someone who takes the time to progressivly see and explore things as they level.

My greatest excitment comes from exploration and mapping (And by mapping I mean paper and pen, not Zmud). My greatest possesions and accomplishments for me personally are not eq, or level, but the stacks of maps Ive created from my exploration and the pages upon pages of notes and info Ive collected over the years. My map of Chult/Hyssk is a 4 foot by 4 foot map, and something I really take a lot of pride in having created by hand.

So in short, sure you can explore easier at level 50, but do you really learn anything substantial aside from being able to get around? You wouldnt have the kind of comprehension of what zones are suited for what levels or class, and your often far more distracted with other tasks to really dedicate good amounts of time.

Unfortunatly, with such a low player base we want new players to reach 50 fast, screw exploration till then, because new players are often active players which is something we all agree is needed. Short of our playerbase growing to support these low-mid level players, this is something that won't change easily and is really up to the player to dedicate themselves to, despite being told otherwise. There are those amongst us that do see the value in players who are curious and explore and die and dont care, but they are fewer in number and many of the ones I have known have left for their own reasons.
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Postby Thilindel » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:34 am

Shiallia wrote:
There's nothing worth exploring from what I saw :(

2 hours, lame/half-assed descriptions, tons of repeated room descs, echoes that were missing any semblance of grammar/punctuation/spelling



eyebrow...your statement implies that I wrote those descriptions with not only any effort but no research. As I spent nearly 6 months describing that place I take HIGH offense to your statement.

EDIT>>Let it be known that the above quote has opened my eyes...enjoy what I leave you.


Keep in mind !!y is the self-proclaimed 'advocant of the mud' as he said. Such tact. He's an idiot. Don't let one FOOL's worthless words change how your passion helps to drive this mud, please. Let this be a note to Duna know who she choses to side with before cursing someone. Wonder if the idiot will blame eight staggering beers for his foolish wording yet again.
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Postby Tasan » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:07 am

Shiallia wrote:eyebrow...your statement implies that I wrote those descriptions with not only any effort but no research. As I spent nearly 6 months describing that place I take HIGH offense to your statement.


Maybe I didn't explore all 1700 rooms, and thus missed much of the wonderful nuggest of info available, cheerfully withdrawn. I wasn't referring to the mobs btw. It's unfortunate that much of the city streets have one description written for their entire length. I was under the impression this zone had been "spruced up" from Miax's supposed version. 10 years > 6 months.

Oh and Thil, please remove yer head from my ass and stop following me around. That thread was deleted for a reason.

!!x
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'



Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'



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Postby Cyric » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:11 am

Tasan, you're rude, inconsiderate and unappreciative and I personally, as areas forger, b elieve that you are an example of the vocal minority on this MUD, and that I write/design/approve zones for the silent and happy majority. Please please please people...if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all...didn't you see Bambi?!? I sincerely hope that your poorly worded comments don't end up costing us a prolific area writer.

It's also plain silly that I have to write stuff like this in response to stuff like that. I'm therefore locking the thread, and I won't be responding elsewhere if you choose to bring it up again. It's a game people...you're supposed to PLAY games, and playing is supposed to be fun.

My sincere apologies to those of you that are appreciative of what we do.

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